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[Crimson_Gold]

All DF has said is as far as they know 102GB/s is still the theoretical max for either read or write and no downclock.

They also don't know how MS arrived at the theoretical 192GB/s or the practical 133GB/s.

Thanks.

 

[Eusis]

"Day One" Edition of the console gets you an achievement saying you preordered/purhcased the most powerful console.

You know, true or not (and we all know it isn't) Microsoft's marketing just has a way of really getting under my skin. Look at the "full name" of the Xbox One in press releases, the "all in one entertainment system", what the fuck is with insisting on that in a PR release rather than just "Entertainment System"?

And it's been happening for awhile, whether it was slathering Avatars on everything or using "Better on Kinect" rather than "Supports Kinect." Nintendo and Sony have been much drier with this stuff, whereas Microsoft likes to try to sugarcoat all of their stuff and it just makes it more offputting instead.

 

[Andronicus]

All DF has said is as far as they know 102GB/s is still the theoretical max for either read or write and no downclock.

They also don't know how MS arrived at the theoretical 192GB/s or the practical 133GB/s.

Is that good reporting?....

 

[shinnn]

Killzone was playable.

It was on the showfloor? Its hard to find videos on youtube.

 

[omonimo]

Is that good reporting?....

What do you mean?

 

[benny_a]

Is that good reporting?....

No. DF has failed their readership with this article for not answering basic question that have been asked by hundred people on various websites immediately after reading the article.

It was on the showfloor? Its hard to find videos on youtube.

Yeah it had one booth. AFAIK it was the jungle mission.

 

[Glorified G]

All DF has said is as far as they know 102GB/s is still the theoretical max for either read or write and no downclock.

They also don't know how MS arrived at the theoretical 192GB/s or the practical 133GB/s.

We're spinning our wheels at this point. The numbers are all there. It's like the thread is on loop (entertaining loop)

Let me sum up the secondary exchange that just went down:

Someone suggested that from what they saw of both games, Forza 5 looked more polished compared to Second Son. They said they'd had the chance to play both. Some people got really upset by this.

From the rest of your post, you did too. Questions were asked. You seem a bit emotionally too involved with this.

 

[omonimo]

My God I haven't noticed the same Leadbetter has wrote this shit; so the smell around him of microsoft fanboyism it wasn't just a simply suspicion.

 

[cartridge]

My opinion:
- I feel that Sony has proven they are better engineers and manufacturers of electronic devices.
- I trust they will not compromise quality in order to save a few dollars.
- I also appreciate that all R&D for the PS4 (and PS3) was in-house, and not contracted out to some stupid west coast "artsy" marketing firm that resulted in the 360's craptastic design.
- I do not trust Microsoft

 

[Reallink]

It was on the showfloor? Its hard to find videos on youtube.

Not on the "showfloor", no. The developers played it live in a demo theater for general attendees. I believe there was also a playable press kiosk "behind closed doors" upstairs in Sony's booth.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

This thread is getting nuttier.

Any word if DF is planning to clarify the controversies? If the Xbone can push slightly better performance, then both platforms (Wii U... :/ sorry folks) will stand to benefit.

 

[Takuya]

Let me sum up the secondary exchange that just went down:

Someone suggested that from what they saw of both games, Forza 5 looked more polished compared to Second Son. They said they'd had the chance to play both. Some people got really upset by this.

Uhhh, as far as I know, Second Son was not playable at all at E3 to anyone but the devs.

 

[Orca]

You know, true or not (and we all know it isn't) Microsoft's marketing just has a way of really getting under my skin. Look at the "full name" of the Xbox One in press releases, the "all in one entertainment system", what the fuck is with insisting on that in a PR release rather than just "Entertainment System"?

And it's been happening for awhile, whether it was slathering Avatars on everything or using "Better on Kinect" rather than "Supports Kinect." Nintendo and Sony have been much drier with this stuff, whereas Microsoft likes to try to sugarcoat all of their stuff and it just makes it more offputting instead.

On Nintendo, you have a point. You realize the PS4 is Sony's "next gen computer entertainment system" though, right?

 

[benny_a]

My opinion:
- I feel that Sony has proven they are better engineers and manufacturers of electronic devices.
- I trust they will not compromise quality in order to save a few dollars.
- I also appreciate that all R&D for the PS4 (and PS3) was in-house, and not contracted out to some stupid west coast "artsy" marketing firm that resulted in the 360's craptastic design.

Mark Cerny is a contractor. Trolololol.

 

[Can Crusher]

You know what would be freaking awesome? Some developers round table where they speak freely about these systems. It's pretty shitty that they have to keep their mouth shut. We would get a much clear understanding of what to expect from the consoles on a hardware level.

 

[cartridge]

Mark Cerny is a contractor. Trolololol.

He's been working with Sony for over a decade and possesses the expertise necessary to spearhead such a project. Troll harder.

 

[artist]

Takuya and others, that topic is over now. bish and that guy will handle this between themselves now.

No. DF has failed their readership with this article for not answering basic question that have been asked by hundred people on various websites immediately after reading the article.

I guess this is the only take-away from this at the moment.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Uhhh, as far as I know, Second Son was not playable at all at E3 to anyone but the devs.

FWIW in the report our guy at E3 (analyst) tried to get a hands on and was refused. So I can definitely believe that.

 

[BlastProcessing]

GTX 580 = 1.56 TF
GTX 680 = 3.1 TF

Excuse my math if that doesn't make the 680 roughly 2x more or 200% more powerful on paper. My point is that games will not look the same order of magnitude better, it's just relative, but compare how those 2 cards DEMOLISH games running on a GeForce 7800GT which is basically what we're getting with the next gen console upgrade, then the difference is not that big of a deal, both cards are running what everyone considers "Next gen" visuals.

This is an even greater example but even still I think someone with a GTX 580 will do just fine.

To get this thread back to being derailed by math instead of being derailed by insider claims, 2X performance is 100% more powerful. 200% percent more power would be 3X.

 

[Vestal]

My opinion:
- I feel that Sony has proven they are better engineers and manufacturers of electronic devices.
- I trust they will not compromise quality in order to save a few dollars.

I guess you never had to flip a PS1 over to make a game work eh?

 

[cartridge]

I guess you never had to flip a PS1 over to make a game work eh?

Nope.

 

[omonimo]

I guess you never had to flip a PS1 over to make a game work eh?

I'm not sure this practice is it so common, anyway :\ in any case, the hell it has to do with sony engineers?

 

[Vestal]

Nope.

explains a lot then.

 

[BigDug13]

I guess you never had to flip a PS1 over to make a game work eh?

The spring holding the lens on the CD drive I wouldn't exactly blame the computer engineers who designed the console for.

 

[cartridge]

explains a lot then.

Yeah, it explains how myself and vast majority of PS1 owners never had to turn the console over to make a game work.

 

[Vestal]

I'm not sure this practice is it so common, anyway :\ in any case, the hell it has to do with sony engineers?

You are seriously asking this question? Ok ill bite..

Back during the days of the PS1, there was an issue with the CD Drive in which it would basically stop working as intended. You had to actually sit the PS1 on its top for it not to crash games or what not. If that's not an engineering error I don't know what is..

 

[Can Crusher]

explains a lot then.

I'm sure having to flip that Ps1 of yours almost 20 years ago, really put a black mark on Sony's products quality heh?

Not that I agree with the notion Sony won't compromise quality for an extra buck, or a better price.

 

[omonimo]

You are seriously asking this question? Ok ill bite..

Back during the days of the PS1, there was an issue with the CD Drive in which it would basically stop working as intended. You had to actually sit the PS1 on its top for it not to crash games or what not. If that's not an engineering error I don't know what is..

Yeah clearly you don't know what is it.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Well placed sources indeed. Lol.

 

[benny_a]

After bish said that derailing is over you guys want to discuss PS1 now?

PS1 had 133 MB/s bandwidth between main memory and CPU.

 

[ekim]

We're getting way off topic here.

Hawk269 - you will PM me your credentials. We'll get to the bottom of this one way or the other. This derail has gone on long enough. You've got an hour.

Ok, back to the music.

Oh snap.

 

[perineumlick]

I remember eventually fucking my PS1 up using the battery trick to play import games. Man, those were the days!

 

[MaGlock]

Nope.

or have a disc read error on PS2? every company has something in their history that wasnt top quality. Blind faith is never good.

 

[beast786]

Personally I am more interested in specialguy sources than this guy playing a demo

 

[klaus]

My opinion:
- I feel that Sony has proven they are better engineers and manufacturers of electronic devices.
- I trust they will not compromise quality in order to save a few dollars.
- I also appreciate that all R&D for the PS4 (and PS3) was in-house, and not contracted out to some stupid west coast "artsy" marketing firm that resulted in the 360's craptastic design.
- I do not trust Microsoft

Care to elaborate what your opinion has to do with anything regarding this thread? Not that it's not appreciated..

Oh and a small detail: Cell R&D was anything but in-house, so much about "all" R&D in-house, after all it was the center piece of the PS3 and Sony's promotion.. And not compromise quality for a few bucks, how bout leaving HDMI cables out of the box?

But let's get back to topic, shall we?

 

[Iacobellis]

PS1? I remember the days of Disc Read Errors on PS2. The system would just stop reading discs out of nowhere.

 

[Vestal]

Yeah, it explains how myself and vast majority of PS1 owners never had to turn the console over to make a game work.

Yeah clearly you don't know what is it.

Here you go from the Wiki

The first batch of PlayStations used a KSM-440AAM laser unit whose case and all movable parts were completely made out of plastic. Over time, friction caused the plastic tray to wear out—usually unevenly. The placement of the laser unit close to the power supply accelerated wear because of the additional heat, which made the plastic even more vulnerable to friction. Eventually, the tray would become so worn that the laser no longer pointed directly at the CD and games would no longer load. Sony eventually fixed the problem by making the tray out of die-cast metal and placing the laser unit farther away from the power supply on later models of the PlayStation.

Some units, particularly the early 100x models, would be unable to play FMV or music correctly, resulting in skipping or freezing. In more extreme cases the PlayStation would only work correctly when turned onto its side or upside down.

All companies screw up something to cut costs. Doesn't make Sony any better or worse for doing it. But don't slobber all over them, because they have issues like everyone else.

 

[ethomaz]

or have a disc read error on PS2? every company has something in their history that wasnt top quality. Blind faith is never good.

I think most people didn't have these issues... for example I never had any issue with my consoles, and just had one friend with this PS1 disc problem... the PS2 I have saw any issue outside the internet.

Every electronic have a 3-8% error rate so most people don't get that

 

[Truespeed]

I guess you never had to flip a PS1 over to make a game work eh?

I currently have a PS1 and have never had to do that. Have you ever owned one?

 

[ElTorro]

You know what would be freaking awesome? Some developers round table where they speak freely about these systems. It's pretty shitty that they have to keep their mouth shut. We would get a much clear understanding of what to expect from the consoles on a hardware level.

Yeah, that would be great.

I am especially curious about what developers will actually do with the ESRAM, not what they might do. People have mentioned many possibilities, but you can't follow all of them since 32MB are still only 32MB.

For instance, many people have suggested that a small fast cache helps whit deferred rendering. The demo post-mortem slides for KZ:SF say (if I understood them correctly, please correct if I am talking bull) that they are using a geometry buffer with 32bit depth for 5 render targets, which would imply 39MB footprint on a resolution of 1920x1080. And this does not account for the amount of overhead memory that you need to copy data from and to the ESRAM while still using it for tasks.

 

[jayu26]

Jeez it took 5 minutes for the thread to get derailed...again.

 

[klaus]

I currently have a PS1 and have never had to do that. Have you ever owned one?

Well I have owned several, and turning them upside down was a common fix. Just as with the dreamcast where you had to put a pin in the right hole. Or putting the 360 in the oven with a towel to fix the soldering. Or blowing NES cartridges. (OK the last one doesn't fit the pattern, but you get what I'm saying)

I take it you usually don't buy consoles at launch, or you are simply a lucky person ^^

 

[omonimo]

Care to elaborate what your opinion has to do with anything regarding this thread? Not that it's not appreciated..

Oh and a small detail: Cell R&D was anything but in-house, so much about "all" R&D in-house, after all it was the center piece of the PS3 and Sony's promotion.. And not compromise quality for a few bucks, how bout leaving HDMI cables out of the box?

But let's get back to topic, shall we?

:\ I'm to that sure to understand why his opinion has nothing to do with this thread, we are in a forum, right? In any case, what exactly is in topic? The article talks of the nothing, people lol about it. That's all.

 

[googleplex]

Any clarification from DF on how the ESRAM could get a 88% bandwidth boost?

Or are can we assume that it was a bad source with bad math?

Or is it savf to assume a 50mhz downgrade for the GPU?

 

[cartridge]

or have a disc read error on PS2? every company has something in their history that wasnt top quality. Blind faith is never good.

Who says it's blind faith? A disc read error vs. RROD? You can't even compare the two.

 

[Eusis]

On Nintendo, you have a point. You realize the PS4 is Sony's "next gen computer entertainment system" though, right?

I only saw the Mad Max press release refer to it as a "computer entertainment system", but I can't discount the very likely possibility that in any Sony released PR they officially say that. But try googling this: "Xbox One® the all-in-one games and entertainment system" and see what you get, don't forget the quotation marks. Some just say PlayStation 4, some like Elder Scrolls Online and Mad Max use "computer entertainment system", while Microsoft has that long formal title that's seemingly insisted on in all of them. It's a relatively minor nitpick to be honest, but it does seem to say something about their marketing and PR if nothing else.

 

[guch20]

Disconcertingly unpolished? wat?

I'm still not seeing it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uibnf_Q_51s

Looks extremely fluid even in its rather early state. I'm not seeing any polishing issues.

Holy fuck, that looks amazing! I can't believe I don't have this preordered. Remedying now.

 

[Orca]

Yeah clearly you don't know what is it.

Probably could be considered one as I believe that issue was the spring that held the laser assembly would heat up/cool down under use and lose tension over time. Flipping it on its lid let it rest against the rails and kept it stable.

I only saw the Mad Max press release refer to it as a "computer entertainment system", but I can't discount the very likely possibility that in any Sony released PR they officially say that. But try googling this: "Xbox One® the all-in-one games and entertainment system" and see what you get, don't forget the quotation marks. Some just say PlayStation 4, some like Elder Scrolls Online and Mad Max use "computer entertainment system", while Microsoft has that long formal title that's seemingly insisted on in all of them. It's a relatively minor nitpick to be honest, but it does seem to say something about their marketing and PR if nothing else.

I think every single result with both consoles has it this way: "for both the PlayStation®4 computer entertainment system and Xbox One, the all-in-one games and entertainment system from Microsoft"

That copy and paste is actually from the Elder Scrolls Online release, by the way. If I get time I'll see if I can find Sony's 'official usage' guidelines for the PS4.

 

[Vestal]

I currently have a PS1 and have never had to do that. Have you ever owned one?

Yup first batch PS1..

 

[klaus]

Who says it's blind faith? A disc read error vs. RROD? You can't even compare the two.

Yep, one of the companies extended the warranty to fix the serious problem for free