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*EID MUBARAK!* RAMADAN 2015 |OT| Come with me if you want to fast

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But office environment can arouse suspicion especially if you're washing your feet in the sinks...Others may take objection to that at worst. At best, they will look at you funny. Last week I was trying to perform wudhu and some dude walked in. Happened 3 times and each time I tried to start the abulution some guy kept walking in. I was so frustrated. And finally when I thought I had the restroom to myself, another guy walked in. I said screw it. I reserved a conference room to myself beforehand, so I went in it and did taymum and prayed. As I was praying, I was jolted out of prayer because some guy tried to come in (it was locked). I had to re-pray. Finally, my prayer was done.
#MuslimInAmerica

Don't think you're going to find anyone able to justify "awkwardness" as a valid excuse for not doing wudhu.

If you only do the obligations, it's quick and it avoids unwanted attention. Wash face and hands once. Wipe over head once. Wash feet once. If washing feet is difficult, grab a water bottle and go into a stall. You only need to wash them once anyway and a handful of water is sufficient. And if you're not Hanafi, you can wipe over your socks as well. Takes less than a minute to do all that.

Did it that way during college (except for the wiping over socks part since I am Hanafi). Fortunately all the hospitals I've rotated at had dedicated prayer rooms and I was able to maintain my wudhu without issue.
 
Planet fitness closes at 10 on Fridays :mad:

what the hell man, I need like an hour rest after eating iftar before working out and I'm a slow eater, so that's like right around 10 that I would go. But they're closed. ugh. so no shoulders/trap workouts today or this week!!!

looks like my workout schedule for the next 3 weeksish is gonna have to be monday/tuesday/wednesday/thursday
 
Don't think you're going to find anyone able to justify "awkwardness" as a valid excuse for not doing wudhu.

If you only do the obligations, it's quick and it avoids unwanted attention. Wash face and hands once. Wipe over head once. Wash feet once. If washing feet is difficult, grab a water bottle and go into a stall. You only need to wash them once anyway and a handful of water is sufficient. And if you're not Hanafi, you can wipe over your socks as well. Takes less than a minute to do all that.

Did it that way during college (except for the wiping over socks part since I am Hanafi). Fortunately all the hospitals I've rotated at had dedicated prayer rooms and I was able to maintain my wudhu without issue.
Can you copy one ruling from Hanafi, one from Hanbali, mix and match, etc?
 
Don't think you're going to find anyone able to justify "awkwardness" as a valid excuse for not doing wudhu.
as someone said earlier in the thread, god is merciful. Muslims are perceived as the worst people in the world. we can't do everything comfortably, we have to make do with what we have, and god is aware of that. yes, we have to make sacrifices, and we are by fasting and going to work. not everything is in our hands.
 
Your posters on neogaf but it's not like you're intending to feed misinformation =]

as for sheikhs, as knowledgable as they may be, I think sometimes they say things can come off as questionable. And I don't say that to make it sound like I know any better, but that the answers they give could be close or narrow minded.

Well you're right but I'd be more wary of unintentionally wrong or misinformation from us. Not trying to put us in such a low regard but it's better safe than sorry lol

As long as the Shaykh has provided you with information with evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah then there shouldn't be any problem in following what they say.

Ramadan Kareem to All. Working out while fasting, here in Toronto its about a 16 hours fast but I gained some serious weight this year, trying to get back into shape! Reps, Reps, and more Reps!!

I can't believe people can workout during Ramadan. Good luck!

Can you copy one ruling from Hanafi, one from Hanbali, mix and match, etc?

As laymen I wouldn't advise it but the Imams have warned against blindly following. Since I love these quotes Im gonna go ahead and paste them :)

"Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took." - Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rahimahullaah)

"If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah
(sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and leave what I have said
." - Shaafi'i (rahimahullaah)

"Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it." - Maalik ibn Anas (rahimahullaah)

"When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab." - Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah)
 
Well you're right but I'd be more wary of unintentionally wrong or misinformation from us. Not trying to put us in such a low regard but it's better safe than sorry lol

As long as the Shaykh has provided you with information with evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah then there shouldn't be any problem in following what they say.
I once asked a sheikh (I think he was a sheikh, or a imam) if aliens exist, and his answer was "Uhh, who cares? That is the answer... there is nothing on that topic that would bring you more into Islam and blah blah..." this occurred way back in 2010 so I don't remember exactly what he said, except for the fact that I did not like his answer at all.
 
Well you're right but I'd be more wary of unintentionally wrong or misinformation from us. Not trying to put us in such a low regard but it's better safe than sorry lol

As long as the Shaykh has provided you with information with evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah then there shouldn't be any problem in following what they say.



I can't believe people can workout during Ramadan. Good luck!



As laymen I wouldn't advise it but the Imams have warned against blindly following. Since I love these quotes Im gonna go ahead and paste them :)

"Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took." - Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rahimahullaah)

"If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah
(sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and leave what I have said
." - Shaafi'i (rahimahullaah)

"Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it." - Maalik ibn Anas (rahimahullaah)

"When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab." - Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah)
Thank you for the quotes. They're awesome.
 

Kolx

Member
I never though that there will be a Ramadan thread here in neogaf. just a question for people who prepare before Ramadan why is that? Because all the people I know never do any kind of preparation before Ramadan so I really want to know if it makes any actual difference, and Ramadan mubarak :p
 
Can you copy one ruling from Hanafi, one from Hanbali, mix and match, etc?

The majority of Muslims stick to one of the four madhhabs. Picking and choosing is a relatively recent phenomenon. What most scholars suggest is picking a madhhab and sticking to it. Picking a madhhab should be prioritized based on what you already know (e.g. if you're familiar with Shafi'i practice, it makes no sense to pick the Hanafi madhhab) and what the majority scholars in your area follow (e.g. if majority are Malikis, makes no sense to follow Hanbali).

The problem with mixing and matching is that you end up with something that makes no sense. As an example, according to Shafi'is, bleeding does not break your wudhu. According to Hanafis, touching a woman (without lust) does not break wudhu. Now, someone decides to follow the Shafi'is for his bleeding nose and the Hanafis after kissing his wife when he goes off to prayer. According to both schools, his salah would not be valid, but he mixed and matched. In isolation, these rulings are benign, but we cannot take rulings in isolation.

as someone said earlier in the thread, god is merciful. Muslims are perceived as the worst people in the world. we can't do everything comfortably, we have to make do with what we have, and god is aware of that. yes, we have to make sacrifices, and we are by fasting and going to work. not everything is in our hands.

The point is, what you're suggesting is an extremely slippery slope because what "merciful" to you could mean something entirely different to someone else. Should Muslim women not wear hijabs? A lot of people justify it by saying that God is merciful and that there's nothing wrong with Muslim women not wearing hijab - despite the fact that it was specifically mentioned in the Qur'an and reinforced by hadeeth.

Now, where mercy does come into play is if there is a known danger to your life, property, etc. We are allowed to break our prayers if we think someone is breaking into our house, for example, or even doing something as benign as stealing our slippers. But if we're not following Islam simply because someone's looking at us funny, we have to think about who exactly are we trying to please? Allah commanded us to do wudhu before salah and to forego it is not permissible.
 

Linkhero1

Member
Planet fitness closes at 10 on Fridays :mad:

what the hell man, I need like an hour rest after eating iftar before working out and I'm a slow eater, so that's like right around 10 that I would go. But they're closed. ugh. so no shoulders/trap workouts today or this week!!!

looks like my workout schedule for the next 3 weeksish is gonna have to be monday/tuesday/wednesday/thursday

I go for about an hour before iftar. I don't suggest it since I often get dizzy and/or super tired.

I have no other choice so yeah I go and lift pretty light.

Hunger and thirst haven't been an issue for me. I'm just exhausted by the end of the day. Lack of coffee hurts but I think it'll pass by.
 

Sajjaja

Member
I don't get how he won't be able to stand. Now, if you're on a bus and you're physically unable to stand (moving bus, overhead compartments prevent standing where you're seated), sure, it's understandable. But, if you're at work, standing won't be an issue...unless you're a bus driver.

You're right, I misread his post. I thought he said that he wouldn't be praying so I offered him that alternative instead, but rather he said that it would be uncomfortable so that's not really a valid enough excuse haha.

Sorry Artisan, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I've prayed on sidewalks before just outside school, in stairwells within the schools and people walking upto me and asking what I was doing whilst I was praying haha. As uncomfortable as it may be, that's just part of it.

I mean if you were really really anxious about it and finding yourself unable to overcome that anxiety and finding yourself forgoing that prayer, then continue as you are, but really do your best to do it properly.
 
As laymen I wouldn't advise it but the Imams have warned against blindly following. Since I love these quotes Im gonna go ahead and paste them :)

"Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took." - Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rahimahullaah)

"If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah
(sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and leave what I have said
." - Shaafi'i (rahimahullaah)

"Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it." - Maalik ibn Anas (rahimahullaah)

"When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab." - Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah)

This is a whole giant can of worms, lol.

Why follow a madhhab? Simply because it is easier.

When we go to a physician or a surgeon for a procedure, do we ask him to describe, justify, elaborate on everything he is doing to us? Why not just go to WebMD, diagnose ourselves, then heal ourselves that way?

Better yet, when it comes to the madhahib, we are not following one person. The Shafi'i madhhab of today holds positions that are contrary to what Imam Shafi'i RA believed. Same thing with the Hanafi madhhab. That is because those great imams set out the ground rules, the foundations, the ways of elucidating and deriving rulings, but did not say "my way or the highway".

That would be like asking a group, like the American College of Cardiologists to justify and walk us through why they recommend this or that medical therapy for chest pain. The medical jargon is above the heads of most of us so we simply nod and take the pills.

For example, Shafi'is allow trimming the beard, some even allow shaving, whereas Imam Shafi'i RA himself was against cutting the beard at all. Same thing with Hanafis and their view of isbaal (keeping trousers above the ankles), where there are reports of Imam Abu Hanifa RA having his robes below his ankles, yet latter Hanafi jurists used his methodology to arrive at a different conclusion. Heck, even the students of Imam Abu Hanifa RA - Imams Muhammad and Abu Yusuf RA - differed with their teacher on a few things but they are still part of the Hanafi madhhab (their rulings sometimes supercede the rulings of Imam Abu Hanifa RA).

So, why reinvent the wheel and go to hadeeth? Especially considering the fact that the madhahib were formed BEFORE Imam Bukhari RA was even born, so they had access to ahadeeth that might have reached Imam Bukhari RA with a weak chain or even have a known liar in the list of narrators - but he just happened to be telling the truth that one time. The ahadeeth are there for justification, not derivation. The ruling about isbaal that I mentioned earlier, for example, is clearcut if you follow the hadeeth:

The Prophet PBUH said, "Whatever part of the lower garment comes beneath the ankles is in the Fire."

Now, that is very cut and dry, an open and shut case. Yet, majority of people aren't aware of this narration and many scholars have their robes dragging below their ankles. Some cite another hadeeth that mentions pride, but then it is pointed out that doing anything with pride is not permissible, so why was having clothing below the ankles specifically mentioned?

Same thing with the beard: Imam Shafi'i RA is noted by many contemporary scholars to be closest in adherence to the current collection of ahadeeth. Some even say Imam Bukhari RA was closest to the Shafi'i madhhab. Imam Shafi'i RA opined that it is haraam to cut/trim/shape the beard - it must not be reduced in length. If we go to the ahadeeth, you see that there is no mention of cutting the beard and only commandments for lengthening it. Yet, many scholars, let alone laymen, cut their beards, style them, etc. As I mentioned earlier, even the Shafi'i madhhab allows cutting the beard. In fact, the Shafi'i madhhab is the most lax and lenient when it comes to cutting the beard, even allowing complete shaving (albeit being disliked) - none of the other three madhahib allow shaving the beard and consider shaving to be impermissible.

The whole problem with not following a madhhab is that you get self appointed jurists and philosophers, where you get people like Tareq Fatah or Majid Nawaz or Anjem Choudhary or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. All of them try to justify their views from their own ijtihad, their own derivations from the Qur'an and hadeeth. Why do you think it takes years to be a scholar, and even then, further study is required before anyone in the scholarly community would take you seriously? Because the amount of material available in Islam is monumental. We have tens of thousands of ahadeeth. We have thousands of tafaseer. We have millions of fatawa from thousands of jurists of the past. If we are not ourselves in the field of the study of the deen, why are we making it more difficult by following this or that singular narration that we heard in passing especially for something major and that scholars might have already reconciled with other narrations to reach a different conclusion that what we have as non-scholars who are lacking in knowledge to holistically approach an issue?
 
This is a whole giant can of worms, lol.

Why follow a madhhab? Simply because it is easier.

No I agree that as laymen we should follow our respective Madhhab. I can see how you thought I meant otherwise, so my apologies. I should have made it more clear that those quotes were for the Students of Knowledge. However, I didn't think anyone would take them too seriously. I was just posting some nice quotes to share.

Like you mention it is important to follow a Madhhab because of the issue of Usoolul-Fiqh which one needs to comprehensively study for years. As laymen we don't come close to meeting the requirements one needs to become a Mujtahid. The Scholars have warned against doing Ijtihâd as a laymen and have called it a deviance.

So Jazakh'Allah khair for clarifying that important issue and I apologise to anyone if I came across as otherwise.
 

LNBL

Member
In Sweden so i am on Nightmare difficulty. Pray for me.
Got 20+ hr fasting days ahead but atleast i don't live in the upper regions(Kiruna) of the country where the sun didn't set for a month.

Came back home to The Netherlands from Umea for the summer. Happy i'm not there during this month haha
 
The majority of Muslims stick to one of the four madhhabs. Picking and choosing is a relatively recent phenomenon. What most scholars suggest is picking a madhhab and sticking to it. Picking a madhhab should be prioritized based on what you already know (e.g. if you're familiar with Shafi'i practice, it makes no sense to pick the Hanafi madhhab) and what the majority scholars in your area follow (e.g. if majority are Malikis, makes no sense to follow Hanbali).

The problem with mixing and matching is that you end up with something that makes no sense. As an example, according to Shafi'is, bleeding does not break your wudhu. According to Hanafis, touching a woman (without lust) does not break wudhu. Now, someone decides to follow the Shafi'is for his bleeding nose and the Hanafis after kissing his wife when he goes off to prayer. According to both schools, his salah would not be valid, but he mixed and matched. In isolation, these rulings are benign, but we cannot take rulings in isolation.



The point is, what you're suggesting is an extremely slippery slope because what "merciful" to you could mean something entirely different to someone else. Should Muslim women not wear hijabs? A lot of people justify it by saying that God is merciful and that there's nothing wrong with Muslim women not wearing hijab - despite the fact that it was specifically mentioned in the Qur'an and reinforced by hadeeth.

Now, where mercy does come into play is if there is a known danger to your life, property, etc. We are allowed to break our prayers if we think someone is breaking into our house, for example, or even doing something as benign as stealing our slippers. But if we're not following Islam simply because someone's looking at us funny, we have to think about who exactly are we trying to please? Allah commanded us to do wudhu before salah and to forego it is not permissible.
but God also knows that life for Muslims in America is really difficult and unaccepting. While we have to do our duties to god, out hands may be tied in certain circumstances here because we have people to answer to who may not be so indulgent to our practices.

As far as hijab/non hijab goes, to me it's all about modesty. Similar to halal food... My mother taught me that non halal permissible meat (chicken, beef, etc) is allowed, makruh, but it is just better to eat halal. Similarly, I don't wanna be going on my own whims here but my common sense tells me that it may better for females to always wear a hijab, but it is not totally necessary for them to do so. As long as they look appropriately dressed.

I also heard that you can put a pause on your prayer for, say someone to a your doorbell. You go answer it, and once you're done with your business, you can go right back and pick up where you left off on your prayer. Which is technically what I was doing at my workplace when I was mouthing the words.
I go for about an hour before iftar. I don't suggest it since I often get dizzy and/or super tired.

I have no other choice so yeah I go and lift pretty light.

Hunger and thirst haven't been an issue for me. I'm just exhausted by the end of the day. Lack of coffee hurts but I think it'll pass by.
i don't think I can do that man. It just doesn't seem right. Before Ramadan the only days I would ever go back to back were Monday and Tuesday which were leg and chest/tri days respectively, and unless my next day work schedule had me coming in really early, but now since the gym has stupidass hours over the weekend I'm gonna have to go back to back every day of my weekly workouts.

You're right, I misread his post. I thought he said that he wouldn't be praying so I offered him that alternative instead, but rather he said that it would be uncomfortable so that's not really a valid enough excuse haha.

Sorry Artisan, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I've prayed on sidewalks before just outside school, in stairwells within the schools and people walking upto me and asking what I was doing whilst I was praying haha. As uncomfortable as it may be, that's just part of it.

I mean if you were really really anxious about it and finding yourself unable to overcome that anxiety and finding yourself forgoing that prayer, then continue as you are, but really do your best to do it properly.
well, it's one thing to pray like that on your own time. I'm talking about doing it at work. I guess fr now on I'll just go sit in my car during break and do it. Otherwise if I have a shift that is only 6 hours I'll have I mouth the words at my sitting place like you (or someone else?) suggested, while still being aware of my surroundings.
 

Ashes

Banned
The point is, what you're suggesting is an extremely slippery slope because what "merciful" to you could mean something entirely different to someone else. Should Muslim women not wear hijabs? A lot of people justify it by saying that God is merciful and that there's nothing wrong with Muslim women not wearing hijab - despite the fact that it was specifically mentioned in the Qur'an and reinforced by hadeeth.

3jYHS01.gif


God, what a terrible terrible way to frame the hijab debate. You're either
a, ignorant,
b, deliberately obfuscating arguments from those against the hijab.

Either way, I have neither the time nor the inclination to go into it. So this is a terrible way to reply. Lest to say those against the hijab and/or veil don't rely on god's infinite mercy as you seem to convey.
 
3jYHS01.gif


God, what a terrible terrible way to frame the hijab debate. You're either
a, ignorant,
b, deliberately obfuscating arguments from those against the hijab.

Either way, I have neither the time nor the inclination to go into it. So this is a terrible way to reply. Lest to say those against the hijab and/or veil don't rely on god's infinite mercy as you seem to convey.
What do you make of what I said about it?
 

Sayah

Member
Probably best to avoid such arguments/debates in a Ramadan thread. Living in America, I know a lot of Muslims that drink alcohol, for example, but I'm not going to judge anyone. It's not my place to do so. We're all imperfect in our own ways and should focus on making ourselves better before putting the "eye" on others for what they do.

There are even examples from Hadith where a prostitute was forgiven by God because she fed a thirsty dog.

Just let people be and focus on making yourself a better person in every way you can instead of condemning other strangers you don't know for what they do. We all know drinking alcohol is not allowed, stealing is not allowed, adultery is not allowed, backbiting is not allowed, etc. in this faith. It's not something that's questionable. Each person is responsible for themselves. No one else.
 

adelante

Member
i don't think I can do that man. It just doesn't seem right. Before Ramadan the only days I would ever go back to back were Monday and Tuesday which were leg and chest/tri days respectively, and unless my next day work schedule had me coming in really early, but now since the gym has stupidass hours over the weekend I'm gonna have to go back to back every day of my weekly workouts.

Man...I'm so thankful I became of a 24hr fitness gym whose branches are sprouting everywhere here and the closest one is a merely 5 minutes walk from the nearest mosque. No excuse for not putting in my Tarawih and then hitting the gym. Perfect timing too cos I would've regained enough energy for a complete workout. Tried doing leg day today with my girlfriend before iftar, figured it should be no problem if I'd go lighter with squats. I was almost depleted by the third set... never gonna hit heavy compound exercises if I'm working out before breaking my fast.
 
Man...I'm so thankful I became of a 24hr fitness gym whose branches are sprouting everywhere here and the closest one is a merely 5 minutes walk from the nearest mosque. No excuse for not putting in my Tarawih and then hitting the gym. Perfect timing too cos I would've regained enough energy for a complete workout. Tried doing leg day today with my girlfriend before iftar, figured it should be no problem if I'd go lighter with squats. I was almost depleted by the third set... never gonna hit heavy compound exercises if I'm working out before breaking my fast.
I guess I am not going to be as committed to tarabih as I should be. I could do the full 20 today and on Fridays but other than that I think I'm gonna keep it to just 4. But I definitely wouldn't go to the gym after tarabih, that would mean even less hours of sleep you'd get for the whole day.
 

AAK

Member
Probably best to avoid such arguments/debates in a Ramadan thread. Living in America, I know a lot of Muslims that drink alcohol, for example, but I'm not going to judge anyone. It's not my place to do so. We're all imperfect in our own ways and should focus on making ourselves better before putting the "eye" on others for what they do.

There are even examples from Hadith where a prostitute was forgiven by God because she fed a thirsty dog.

Just let people be and focus on making yourself a better person in every way you can instead of condemning other strangers you don't know for what they do. We all know drinking alcohol is not allowed, stealing is not allowed, adultery is not allowed, backbiting is not allowed, etc. in this faith. It's not something that's questionable. Each person is responsible for themselves. No one else.

Excellent post.
 

adelante

Member
Do you workout before or after tarawih? I'm conflicted at the moment as I do it before ifthar to work up a hunger.

I try to do it after tarawih; I'm always worried that working out with little energy in your system might encourage muscle catabolism but I don't think it's that big an issue if you choose to do lighter weights or don't do it too long before you start eating. On days I'm working out I always perform 8 rakaat for tarawih, so I'd be done around 930pm, witir included. I don't take more than an hour and half in the gym so I'll be at home before midnight. Gives me ample time to rest.

Ramadhan to me isn't the time for breaking or meeting PRs, my aim is just to stay fit so that helps.
 
breh

does everyone more/less eat the same iftar food items?
>.>

at my home its all vegetarian items but i could totally be a vegetarian eating this stuff

it legit tastes better than meat, it really does
 
Taraweeh is my workout

Me too bro. Start of with 3 reps of dates then move onto some somosa lifting.

breh

does everyone more/less eat the same iftar food items?
>.>

at my home its all vegetarian items but i could totally be a vegetarian eating this stuff

it legit tastes better than meat, it really does

Some vegetarian food is amazing. One of the good things about not finding halal food around you end up discovering some good vegetarian food.
 

Ashes

Banned
Mum just came back from the mosque, and is now glowing about a fifteen year old who led prayers for about four rakaat half way through taraweeh. The imaam is on tour and apparently won many awards in mamy different countries and even led prayers in Mecca.. Or was it Medina? Can't remember.
Anyways she was saying that his voice was extraordinary. Absolutely first rate. That she was teary at the end of it.

Anyways, here is a cool dua to read before tasleem. Optional of course. And some of you may already be reciting it.

Dua-E-Masoora

اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي ظَلَمْتُ نَفْسِي ظُلْماً كَثِيراً، وَلَا يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ إِلَّا أَنْتَ، فَاغْفِرْ لِي مَغْفِرَةً مِنْ عِنْدِكَ وَارْحَمْنِي إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ

Transliteration:

Allahumma inni zalamtu nafsi zulman kathiran wala yaghfirudh-dhunuba illa anta, Faghfirli maghfiratan min indika war-hamni, innaka antalGhafur-Rahim

Translation:

O Allah, I have greatly wronged myself and
no one forgives sins but You.
So, grant me forgiveness and have mercy on me.
Surely, you are Forgiving, Merciful
Source:
Invocations
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 75 :: Hadith 338

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq said to the Prophet, "Teach me an invocation with which I may invoke (Allah) in my prayer." The Prophet said, "Say: Allahumma inni zalamtu nafsi zulman kathiran wala yaghfirudh-dhunuba illa anta, Faghfirli maghfiratan min indika war-hamni, innaka antalGhafur-Rahim."
Source materials are from the University of Southern California MSA site
 
but God also knows that life for Muslims in America is really difficult and unaccepting. While we have to do our duties to god, out hands may be tied in certain circumstances here because we have people to answer to who may not be so indulgent to our practices.

As far as hijab/non hijab goes, to me it's all about modesty. Similar to halal food... My mother taught me that non halal permissible meat (chicken, beef, etc) is allowed, makruh, but it is just better to eat halal. Similarly, I don't wanna be going on my own whims here but my common sense tells me that it may better for females to always wear a hijab, but it is not totally necessary for them to do so. As long as they look appropriately dressed.

No, hijab is specifically mentioned in the Qur'an. It is an obligation. If someone doesn't wear the hijab, that is sinful because there is consensus of scholars that it is mandatory.

Brother, you're relying too much on what you might think is right or hearsay based on what someone has told you, rather than what scholars have told you. The Qur'an specifically commands believing women to wear the hijab - in fact, a specific form of hijab, called the jilbab is mentioned, which includes covering the hair and chest.

Same thing about halal food. Why do you avoid pork if non-halal meat is "permissible"? Allah commands us about what halal is and that we are commanded to refrain from eating that which is not halal specifically in the Qur'an.

I also heard that you can put a pause on your prayer for, say someone to a your doorbell. You go answer it, and once you're done with your business, you can go right back and pick up where you left off on your prayer. Which is technically what I was doing at my workplace when I was mouthing the words.

Again, this is hearsay. You'd have to prove that this is possible. Any time salah is broken, it has to be restarted. There's no condition that allows you to resume prayer after you've broken it.

well, it's one thing to pray like that on your own time. I'm talking about doing it at work. I guess fr now on I'll just go sit in my car during break and do it. Otherwise if I have a shift that is only 6 hours I'll have I mouth the words at my sitting place like you (or someone else?) suggested, while still being aware of my surroundings.

I mean, you could always ask your manager or whatever for 5 minutes and go to a room to pray.

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God, what a terrible terrible way to frame the hijab debate. You're either
a, ignorant,
b, deliberately obfuscating arguments from those against the hijab.

Either way, I have neither the time nor the inclination to go into it. So this is a terrible way to reply. Lest to say those against the hijab and/or veil don't rely on god's infinite mercy as you seem to convey.

If you're against the hijab, I have nothing to say to you except that you're going against a clear law of the Qur'an. As I said, a sister can choose not to wear a hijab but she must realize that it is still sinful. Just how someone can drink a beer or break his fast without a valid reason but does realize it is a sin.

Now, if they don't consider it to be sinful (i.e. they're against it), that is a completely different story as that becomes a matter of belief and they're rejecting a clear command from Allah.

Probably best to avoid such arguments/debates in a Ramadan thread. Living in America, I know a lot of Muslims that drink alcohol, for example, but I'm not going to judge anyone. It's not my place to do so. We're all imperfect in our own ways and should focus on making ourselves better before putting the "eye" on others for what they do.

There are even examples from Hadith where a prostitute was forgiven by God because she fed a thirsty dog.

Just let people be and focus on making yourself a better person in every way you can instead of condemning other strangers you don't know for what they do. We all know drinking alcohol is not allowed, stealing is not allowed, adultery is not allowed, backbiting is not allowed, etc. in this faith. It's not something that's questionable. Each person is responsible for themselves. No one else.

Bro, there's no condemnation from me based on whether someone wears the hijab or not. It all comes down to intention and belief. If someone BELIEVES that the hijab is optional or not a part of Islam, that is completely different from someone who doesn't wear the hijab but realizes that not wearing it is sinful. Muslims drink beer, fornicate, are involved in drug abuse, etc., but those that know that what they're doing is wrong yet still go about doing it do not have a problem of belief. You can be the most sinful person on the planet, but as long as you realize that what you're doing is sinful, there's always room for forgiveness. If someone is stubborn on their sin and rejects something as being sinful, then it becomes a matter of belief and that's where problems creep in.
 

Ashes

Banned
If you're against the hijab, I have nothing to say to you except that you're going against a clear law of the Qur'an. As I said, a sister can choose not to wear a hijab but she must realize that it is still sinful. Just how someone can drink a beer or break his fast without a valid reason but does realize it is a sin.

Now, if they don't consider it to be sinful, that is a completely different story as that becomes a matter of belief.

.

The entirety of Islam's history is evidence to the contrary brother. Especially this past century.
& no, I'm not against the hijab. Just informed enough to acknowledge that that rabbit hole goes deeper than you give it credit for.

You don't have to be an expert to acknowledge reason.

Nor do you have to be an expert in any given field to be confident in your knowledge of the field's particulars. For example, I'm not a Rocket Scientist but I know about Newton's law of universal gravitation.

I'm not going to write a paper on bone structures any time soon, but I can tell you how many bones there are in the average adult human body. & further, how that differs from average new born babies.
 
The entirety of Islam's history is evidence to the contrary brother. Especially this past century.
& no, I'm not against the hijab. Just informed enough to acknowledge that that rabbit hole goes deeper than you give it credit for.

You don't have to be an expert to acknowledge reason.

Nor do you have to be an expert in any given field to be confident in your knowledge of the field's particulars. For example, I'm not a Rocket Scientist but I know about Newton's law of universal gravitation.

I'm not going to write a paper on bone structures any time soon, but I can tell you how many bones there are in the average adult human body. & further, how that differs from average new born babies.

Can you cite to me ONE reliable scholar from the present or past who says that hijab is not a part of Islam or isn't an obligation?

The Qur'an is clear. The ahadeeth are clear. If anyone is challenging the obligation of hijab, they had better reconcile with the Qur'an and the ahadeeth. Otherwise, their opinion is of no merit.

http://islamqa.info/en/13998
 
I am having a pleasant fast so far because of the weekend...I'm dreading monday. Getting up at 8 and going to work on empty stomach is so hard.
 
Can you cite to me ONE reliable scholar from the present or past who says that hijab is not a part of Islam or isn't an obligation?

The Qur'an is clear. The ahadeeth are clear. If anyone is challenging the obligation of hijab, they had better reconcile with the Qur'an and the ahadeeth. Otherwise, their opinion is of no merit.

http://islamqa.info/en/13998
IslamQA is an extremist, ultra-salafist fatwa factory. They are just as spurious as the figures you brought up earlier, i.e people that simply follow the literal word without examining contexts and other factors. Some of their "fatwas" include:
The website includes a number of controversial fatwas.[4] These include women who drive being prostitutes,[5] women being "weak, defeated and dazzled" if they take part in politics,[6] women being intellectually inferior to men (on a number of occasions),[7][8][9] women who work as broadcasters will lead to illegitimate children,[10] needing to divorce women who don't wear the hijab,[11] needing to leave work if there are women working there too,[12] polygamy being necessary for all Muslim males,[13] women who do not marry will become prostitutes and the illegitimacy of the children will be reflected in their behavior,[14] a muslim male being sinful for getting to know a girl for the sake of marriage,[15] being sinful to live in non-Muslim countries (and needing to hate non-muslims if one does live in a non-muslim country),[16] and not being allowed to appreciate the skills of non-muslim football players, because they are non-muslim.[17] The website also states "The wife has no right to object to her husband owning female slaves or to his having intercourse with them."[18]
Heck, even Saudi Arabia banned them for being way too extreme or not seeking the Fatwa council's opinion.
 
IslamQA is an extremist, ultra-salafist fatwa factory. They are just as spurious as the figures you brought up earlier, i.e people that simply follow the literal word without examining contexts and other factors. Some of their "fatwas" include:

Heck, even Saudi Arabia banned them for being way too extreme or not seeking the Fatwa council's opinion.

I don't agree with IslamQA but they are citing sources for this particular issue that are agreed upon by all Sunnis. For example, they mandate the niqab to an extent that only one eye is visible.
 
I don't agree with IslamQA but they are citing sources for this particular issue that are agreed upon by all Sunnis.

Citing sources is not the issue...the issue is not examining question according to context without any critical thought or research. Even I can do what they're doing using an online compendium of hadiths categorized by subject.
 
Citing sources is not the issue...the issue is not examining question according to context without any critical thought or research. Even I can do what they're doing using an online compendium of hadiths categorized by subject.

They're providing the Qur'anic sources and many ahadeeth that provide evidence towards the obligation of hijab. They weren't really asked any critical question in that particular instance.

And it is not really a debated subject because there is ijma' (scholarly consensus) on hijab for centuries, among the Sunnis and even the Shi'a.
 
Lads, calm down a little bit about the whole debating stuff. Remember 'tis a time to rejoice and remember Allah. Besides one would presume ye all are too tired to argue anyway ;)

You're right. Probably won't change anyone's mind with regards to hijab because to hold a position contrary to ijma' already means someone is grounded in their beliefs. I'm out of this discussion. Ma' as salaamah.
 
They're providing the Qur'anic sources and many ahadeeth that provide evidence towards the obligation of hijab. They weren't really asked any critical question in that particular instance.

And it is not really a debated subject because there is ijma' (scholarly consensus) on hijab for centuries, among the Sunnis and even the Shi'a.
For the record, I believe Hijab is mandatory. My wife wears one too. But I also believe in the concept of "lesser evil", which Islam allows room for. The problem with rigid, absolutist thinking is that it drives people away from religion. For example, the poster earlier asking about sitting and praying at his desk...the lesser "evil" is that he does so in his best possible capacity, and the greater "evil" being he skips the prayer altogether. If you present Islam as rigid, he will skip the prayer thinking why even bother. Same thing in hijab debate...many Muslim girls think why even bother with Hijab, because they don't pray 5 times anyway so who are they fooling. At the same time there are many more women struggling with Muslim identity in the west. If you hammer them with the haram-police fatwas, the struggle can easily become a crisis and thats when people leave the faith.
Lads, calm down a little bit about the whole debating stuff. Remember 'tis a time to rejoice and remember Allah. Besides one would presume ye all are too tired to argue anyway ;)

Sorry, just wanted to throw in my two cents. Lets go back to samosas!
 

RiZ III

Member
But office environment can arouse suspicion especially if you're washing your feet in the sinks...Others may take objection to that at worst. At best, they will look at you funny. Last week I was trying to perform wudhu and some dude walked in. Happened 3 times and each time I tried to start the abulution some guy kept walking in. I was so frustrated. And finally when I thought I had the restroom to myself, another guy walked in. I said screw it. I reserved a conference room to myself beforehand, so I went in it and did taymum and prayed. As I was praying, I was jolted out of prayer because some guy tried to come in (it was locked). I had to re-pray. Finally, my prayer was done.
#MuslimInAmerica

What I do at work is I do all of the wudhu in the bathroom besides the feet. I do wash my feet though. For that part, I take a paper towel and a cup of water into the private room where I pray. I dip the paper towel in the water and wash my feet with it. You could also just wet the paper towel in the bathroom and take it with you. Been doing this for five years. I'm fortunate enough to have a room that's usually empty so I am able to pray there without being disturbed. I'll lock the door just in case though. Twice someone did walk in cause I had forgotten. One time he just said "oops sorry" and walked out. The other time it was the janitor emptying out the trash and he just went about doing his business. I was able to continue both times without stopping. If you can't find a room, then perhaps go to your car if you drive to work.
 

Ashes

Banned
You're right. Probably won't change anyone's mind with regards to hijab because to hold a position contrary to ijma' already means someone is grounded in their beliefs. I'm out of this discussion. Ma' as salaamah.

The problem I have is that some people find western scholars arguments more persuasive. And arguments - over the longer term - have more force than positions of authority.

Muslim feminists were beginning to flourish last century when they were allowed to. It'll happen again.

I'm going to ask you straight. Is there a quote in the Quran that tells women to cover their hair? Like for example, it says to cover their bosoms.

What happens is something like this.

People nearly always post the same quotes you posted.
To which I'll say: I don't see the word hijab there.
They'll tell me about the jilbab or some talk about the khimar being used to cover the bosom etc..
Oh.. okay... cool.

And that's the irony.. the hijab, which invokes so many debates, is just mentioned, in passing.

And that too to cover her bosoms.

Hijab, some argue, is actually mentioned in the Quran. In another part. But it's only used in its literal sense, curtains.

And this so called 'utterly clear certainty amongst scholars' occurs before you go into what all of the above actually means in practise; for example, do you mean to talk about the prophet's wives or the average Muslim women? or modesty in general? how much can you cover? and whether the face and hands can be shown. << And every part of this paragraph is argued by scholars vociferously.

To finish off, I actually don't hold a for or against position. It's not like I'm blind to the consensus. Or anything.. But that over the many years that I've covered this, my position has softened somewhat from what I grew up with.

You want to quash this debate by throwing the book at me? Fair enough.
 

Dice//

Banned
I'm not Muslim, and sorry if this is stupid in any way. But I work with someone who is fasting right now... and I accidentally mention *I* was 'hungry' in front of him.... Whoops. Heh, it was a really busy day at work and he's like "YOU'RE hungry?" We had a laugh since my piddly hunger probably had nothing on his. x)
That and my low blood pressure would probably mean I pass out at least once a week if I avoided any food/drink that long...

Point is, I really respect the Islamic faith, so best of luck to all of you fasting, it can't be easy during the longer Summers. Ramadan Mubarak!
 
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