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[Razorskin]

got tired of winning

 

[tuxfool]

As a European passport holder living in America as an LPR, I think this is terrible.

The EU should have taken the moral high ground here instead of stooping to Trump's level.

What should the EU say to its member states that don't get visa free access to the US? Deal with it?

This has been a long time coming, the US could have fixed this years ago.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Wow fuck this. What do people who already have trips planned in the next month do now?

 

[daveo42]

Please don't make me go to Ohio

Spoiler

I'm also stuck in Ohio :/

 

[danowat]

Wow fuck this. What do people who already have trips planned in the next month do now?

Get a visa?.

 

[Funky Papa]

Each day it passes I grow more disgusted by The Independent's headlines.

From the article:

Following the committee's vote, the Commission must act to suspend the visa waiver for Americans, but the European Parliament or the Council of the European Union may object.

There's a process. This is far from a done deal (although there's a fat chance it will happen if the US doesn't change its stance)

Press release:

Parliament asks EU Commission to press for full US-EU visa reciprocity


The EU Commission is legally obliged to take measures temporarily reintroducing visa requirements for US citizens, given that Washington still does not grant visa-free access to nationals of five EU countries. In a resolution approved on Thursday, MEPs urge the Commission to adopt the necessary legal measures ”within two months".

The text prepared by the Civil Liberties Committee was adopted by a show of hands.

Visa reciprocity

Citizens of Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania still cannot enter US territory without a visa, while US citizens can travel to all EU countries visa-free.

According to the visa reciprocity mechanism, if a third country does not lift its visa requirements within 24 months of being notified of non-reciprocity, the EU Commission must adopt a delegated act - to which both Parliament and the Council may object - suspending the visa waiver for its nationals for 12 months.

Following a notification of non-reciprocity on 12 April 2014, the Commission should have acted before 12 April 2016 but it has yet to take any legal measure. Canada also imposes visa requirements on Bulgarian and Romanian citizens, but it has announced that they will be lifted on 1 December 2017.

Background

In April 2014, the European Commission was notified that five countries were not meeting their obligations towards the EU with regard to reciprocity of visa-free travel: Australia, Brunei, Canada, Japan and the US.

Australia, Brunei and Japan have since lifted their visa requirements for all EU citizens and Canada will do so in December this year.

 

[Kimawolf]

As a french dude, I don't mind having to ask for a visa to go to the US. We already get treated like shit at the border and it's only one country anyways. No big deal.
I hope every EU country starts asking american citizens for visas until the US get their shit together and starts hiring human beings as border agents and not heartless robots who treat you like a criminal just because you want to spend your hard earned money in their country as a tourist. We'll lose a lot of money from american tourists but it shouldn't even be an argument. No country should accept that their citizens be treated so badly by an ally. We need to grow some balls as a continent and stop bending over.

Oh come on. Don't ve like that. Things were fine how they were.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Now to see Trump's retaliatory fit.

 

[Funky Papa]

As a European passport holder living in America as an LPR, I think this is terrible.

The EU should have taken the moral high ground here instead of stooping to Trump's level.

There's no moral high ground to take here. Visa/border agreements are based on reciprocity and they are actually very effective because of this.

 

[Pyroclastic]

What the shit man, why is it so hard for Americans/Canadians to permanently settle in the UK?

we're not in the eu for much longer. we'll be bribing you guys to come over soon.

 

[Pandora012]

So why couldn't the US come to an agreement with those 5 countries?

 

[gerg]

Each day it passes I grow more disgusted by The Independent's headlines.

The Independent has been surprisingly click-baity for a long while now. I was always a bit surprised by people decrying its demise. (Plus the site's font never displays correctly on my computer.)

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You know what fine

Do it

I fully support Trump leaving nato. Thats cool I never wanted to visit the eu. Thats fine. We wont defend you anymore against russia. Bye felicia.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

Very good.

 

[BronsonLee]

So why couldn't the US come to an agreement with those 5 countries?

Cause we're assholes

 

[Funky Papa]

So why couldn't the US come to an agreement with those 5 countries?

That's not the point. It's not about an agreement with those 5 countries. It's about respecting the EU as a whole. Fuck with a member, you are fucking with the entire Union.

Expect much more of this over the coming months, specially as member states become more aware of how much the Union needs to be, well, united.

 

[Pandora012]

I suppose I should plan a trip to Europe before the countries I want to enter ratify this.

That's not the point. It's not about an agreement with those 5 countries. It's about respecting the EU as a whole. Fuck with a member, you are fucking with the entire Union.

Expect much more of this over the coming months, specially as member states become more aware of how much the Union needs to be, well, united.

Sorry I should have said, why were they singled out? Yes, we should have respected the whole of the EU. I just don't understand why those 5 were singled out by the US.

 

[butzopower]

So what has changed since yesterday then?

 

[Sölf]

Well, it will be interesting to see how long this whole process takes. Unless the US actually change their stance on this, which I can't see with Trump.

 

[Xando]

So what has changed since yesterday then?

Not much. Commission still has to allow it and the council can veto it

I appreciate that, and I think the responsibility ultimately falls on Americans to sort their shit out, but as the U.S. continues to cede any and all moral authority in the world, the EU could take the stance that free movement for citizens of allied countries is a value worth upholding.

(Plus tourist $$$$.)

The way the current US administration has acted towards the EU i'm not sure if they consider it ally anymore. Trump and Bannon literally questioned the EU and suggested it should dissolve

 

[Shake Appeal]

There's no moral high ground to take here. Visa/border agreements are based on reciprocity and they are actually very effective because of this.

I appreciate that, and I think the responsibility ultimately falls on Americans to sort their shit out, but as the U.S. continues to cede any and all moral authority in the world, the EU could take the stance that free movement for citizens of allied countries is a value worth upholding.

(Plus tourist $$$$.)

 

[gutter_trash]

Each day it passes I grow more disgusted by The Independent's headlines.

:

I feel the same about the Huffington Post,
click baity headlines with no meat in their articles

 

[Laevateinn]

That's not the point. It's not about an agreement with those 5 countries. It's about respecting the EU as a whole. Fuck with a member, you are fucking with the entire Union.

Expect much more of this over the coming months, specially as member states become more aware of how much the Union needs to be, well, united.

I kind of wish the EU would've responded by requiring Visas for travelers from Ohio, West Virginia, Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi but I understand why they went this route instead.

 

[Madness]

^ Agree with Shake Appeal. The best approach would not be to stoop to the level of Americans but to take the moral and cultural high ground. Show the world the decline of the US as the leader of the 'free world' and the West and instead show the EU as united and a union for good. I have made my thoughts about the EU be known and I wouldn't blame them for this. Visa free travel is often a two way street. I think let the US suffer declines in tourism, be ridiculed by allies and enemies alike, let the EU still allow travel and tourism.

 

[Joni]

I appreciate that, and I think the responsibility ultimately falls on Americans to sort their shit out, but as the U.S. continues to cede any and all moral authority in the world, the EU could take the stance that free movement for citizens of allied countries is a value worth upholding.

^ Agree with Shake Appeal. The best approach would not be to stoop to the level of Americans but to take the moral and cultural high ground. Show the world the decline of the US as the leader of the 'free world' and the West and instead show the EU as united and a union for good. I have made my thoughts about the EU be known and I wouldn't blame them for this. Visa free travel is often a two way street. I think let the US suffer declines in tourism, be ridiculed by allies and enemies alike, let the EU still allow travel and tourism.

They can't do that because it means countries get to pick and choose which countries to talk with. It is all or nothing. It would be saying fuck you to the five countries, and tell the rest of the world to go right ahead and do the same as the US. This is something that needs to be done because Obama fucked up.

 

[PdotMichael]

^ Agree with Shake Appeal. The best approach would not be to stoop to the level of Americans but to take the moral and cultural high ground. Show the world the decline of the US as the leader of the 'free world' and the West and instead show the EU as united and a union for good. I have made my thoughts about the EU be known and I wouldn't blame them for this. Visa free travel is often a two way street. I think let the US suffer declines in tourism, be ridiculed by allies and enemies alike, let the EU still allow travel and tourism.

The EU is doing it for over 10 years.

So stop that bullshit.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Wouldn't the better reciprocal response be for the EU to require visas for U.S. citizens from 5 different states? Florida would definitely be on the list.

 

[mnz]

^ Agree with Shake Appeal. The best approach would not be to stoop to the level of Americans but to take the moral and cultural high ground. Show the world the decline of the US as the leader of the 'free world' and the West and instead show the EU as united and a union for good. I have made my thoughts about the EU be known and I wouldn't blame them for this. Visa free travel is often a two way street. I think let the US suffer declines in tourism, be ridiculed by allies and enemies alike, let the EU still allow travel and tourism.

The whole point of the EU is to work and deal as a bloc. You can't have other countries undermine that.
The union would be useless if they accepted this.

 

[DarthMasta]

I've had to travel to the USA as an EU citizen with and without visa, and it wasn't that terribly different.

 

[Frankfurter]

I appreciate that, and I think the responsibility ultimately falls on Americans to sort their shit out, but as the U.S. continues to cede any and all moral authority in the world, the EU could take the stance that free movement for citizens of allied countries is a value worth upholding.

(Plus tourist $$$$.)

I wouldn't consider the current US an ally of the EU. The US is opposed to its very existence..

 

[Electric Eye]

So why couldn't the US come to an agreement with those 5 countries?

There currently isn't an actual state department. From all accounts Tillersen has been sidelined with no staff or direction at the state department as Trump's inner circle either don't want them to be functional or are just incompetent. It's a mess and that's why shit like this happens.

 

[Pandora012]

There currently isn't an actual state department. From all accounts Tillersen has been sidelined with no staff or direction at the state department as Trump's inner circle either don't want them to be functional or are just incompetent. It's a mess and that's why shit like this happens.

It's possible for Tillerson to fix this, but this has been a problem since 2014.

 

[darscot]

What the shit man, why is it so hard for Americans/Canadians to permanently settle in the UK?

Please don't lump is in together, as a Canadian this association is not good.

 

[Joni]

Wouldn't the better reciprocal response be for the EU to require visas for U.S. citizens from 5 different states? Florida would definitely be on the list.

Because that would be childish.

There currently isn't an actual state department. From all accounts Tillersen has been sidelined with no staff or direction at the state department as Trump's inner circle either don't want them to be functional or are just incompetent. It's a mess and that's why shit like this happens.

Obama had three years. Trump had just over one month. Blame is shared.

 

[killer rin]

^ Agree with Shake Appeal. The best approach would not be to stoop to the level of Americans but to take the moral and cultural high ground. Show the world the decline of the US as the leader of the 'free world' and the West and instead show the EU as united and a union for good. I have made my thoughts about the EU be known and I wouldn't blame them for this. Visa free travel is often a two way street. I think let the US suffer declines in tourism, be ridiculed by allies and enemies alike, let the EU still allow travel and tourism.

If the EU let other countries start deciding to bypass the union, what's the point of it even existing. It sucks it had to come to this, but the responsibility for this is 100% on the side of the USA for being stubborn. Add in the top office of the USA now having the stance that the EU shouldn't exist and why should the EU play ball when the country they are trying to negotiate with clearly does not respect their authority.

 

[frontovik]

I can understand the EU's reasoning behind their decision. Their interests, authority, and sovereignty comes first instead of being mere vassals to another.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

The EU is the only one here with principles.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Americans from certain states are far less likely to have a passport.

Somehow I doubt this move will affect tourism from the very US much. Most countries will probably just have visas on arrival anyway.

 

[Dingens]

[...]
The EU should have taken the moral high ground here instead of stooping to Trump's level.

the EU and EU countries already have the moral high ground by not molesting tourists at the border.

[...]Sorry I should have said, why were they singled out? Yes, we should have respected the whole of the EU. I just don't understand why those 5 were singled out by the US.

seems pretty obvious when you look at which countries got singled out...

 

[Mr.Mike]

seems pretty obvious when you look at which countries got singled out...

Is it?

Besides the unemployment rates, some of the 5 countries are wealthier than a number of other countries who haven't been targeted. In any case, I don't know why people would move to the US illegally right now when they can just move to way better countries completely legally while remaining closer to family.

 

[Sunster]

it's ok guys, America's gonna be so great soon that we won't even want to travel.

 

[sangreal]

So why couldn't the US come to an agreement with those 5 countries?

with the exception of cyprus, they don't meet the statutory requirements and we have a dysfunctional government who won't change the law

you can't have a refusal rate over 3%

 

[Captain Chaos]

Why do I have to pay huge import taxes on purchases via ebay from the US (I was buying from the UK). Case in point $1700USD Graphics card with $400 import charge?!?!?

Why dont we get rid of all these charges and at the same time all the barriers to visiting each others countries - makes sense right?

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Because that would be childish.

 

[sangreal]

Why do I have to pay huge import taxes on purchases via ebay from the US (I was buying from the UK). Case in point $1700USD Graphics card with $400 import charge?!?!?

Why dont we get rid of all these charges and at the same time all the barriers to visiting each others countries - makes sense right?

because you didn't support ttip

 

[eot]

Is it?


Besides the unemployment rates, some of the 5 countries are wealthier than a number of other countries who haven't been targeted. In any case, I don't know why people would move to the US illegally right now when they can just move to way better countries completely legally while remaining closer to family.

Great y-axis there

 

[poppabk]

I've had to travel to the USA as an EU citizen with and without visa, and it wasn't that terribly different.

Unless they have changed the visa application process, the big issue is having to get to a consulate to apply for the visa and then sit around half a day. Worth it if you are moving to the country, massive hassle for a week long trip.

 

[SchrodingerC]

Well this sucks, but understandable in a way.

No, you were supposed to go to Rome. Can I interest you in Toledo, Ohio, instead?

I rather run through a scorching desert naked than go to Ohio.

 

[PdotMichael]

because you didn't support ttip

TTIP wasn't about a single of the talked things.

 

[Coen]

Like I said in the other thread: this is just politics. Parliament might have voted for it but it won't make it through Commission or be rectified by Council.