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[Darryl M R]

To be fair, the person who won last year is a victim of constant online abuse too. And he really seems like someone more misguided and naive, eager to please than truly a bigot. From the very little I know of him. I'm aware of the "trying out different hats" comment or something like that. His message seems to be far from hateful, he seems to fit more on the bystander group that I mentioned above.

And the other person you are referring to also got support from Disney and Youtube. So not just gaming related. He is the biggest Youtuber, that's why he gets the attention and exposure.

Trending gamer is a popularity contest, nothing else.

Being a victim of harassment does not make supporting the harassment of others any less daming. He's worse than a bystander. He will actively support bigotry and hate with the mantra, "Let's hear them out and find a place in the middle." Where is the middle ground between my existence is lesser than a white one?

The other two people I'm referring to are PewDiePie and TotalBiscuit.

TotalBiscuit is still involved in gaming and is well known throughout the industry.

PewDiePie got his fame from content that focused heavily on video games.

You can argue trending gaming is a popularity contest but that does not mean that the hosts of the event are required to nominate these types of people.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

I can say it again, Im against harasment of the organizers of the event, that people is scum. But I wont stop saying that the event was illegal because of that.

But the event was in no way illegal. You can keep saying it was, but you're wrong.

 

[clearestblue]

I wonder if some of the people in this thread crash Girl Scout meetings and demand to be included.

 

[psychowave]

Even if it *was* illegal, as Weltall Zero said, the takeaway should be "wow that's messed up that that's illegal", not "oh well it's illegal so it's morally wrong".

 

[Psyrgery ES]

Again, the article that you cite only applies to a specific type of event. It explicitly says so in the name: Reglamento de Policía de Espectáculos públicos y Actividades Recreativas. This event was neither. Article 14 of the Constitution protects citizens from discrimination based on sex, age, religion, etc. in terms of the law. Otherwise, public restrooms for different sexes can't be legal.



That's an incredibly loaded and biased source. Look at his "conclusions":

Doesn't even mention the year of the study of even the source. The page looks very conservative also.



Wow


Do not bother reading it.

Unsurprisingly, that article sounds incredibly racist and like something I'd see from 13tv.

Holy shit how did I not spot that? Utterly disgusting.

Nevertheless, I did more research and, appart from the shitty and biased hate speech from that article, the figure of 45% of crimes commited by foreigners is correct; it comes from a research made by the Ministry of Healthcare in 2016

More data from 2011
43% of gender violence crimes were committed by foreigners

Data from 2010
42% of crimes against women were committed by foreigners

Once again, sorry for being so careless at posting sources.

 

[Alebrije]

See, that's the thing. Can we? I mean, A thousand active online dickheads can make it hell online for all involved, but you have how many active League, Overwatch and other assorted games regulars? At least in the tens of millions.

Let's say the active online dickhead community is 10k, people who actively harrass and dox and shit. And then we have 30 million people who at least spend 10 hours a week on non-casual/core games, which we will call gamers.

That would make a shithead rate of 0,03%, one in 3000. Okay, that's unrealistic, in my experience every normal person in 1000 is really shitty and since we assume gamers are worse it's one in 500. That would boost their numbers to what, almost 100k.
So you have a community of normal people with 0,2% being active shitheads. But since this amounts to 80k people who will likely be online to spread shit, you can't move as their target before getting a massive amount of shit flung your way.


Still, it's 0,2% so you can't say gamers are a "high amount of trash" type of community just from what you perceive on the net. As opposed to, let's say, the "gamergate community" which is a subset of the gaming community but is almost 100% pure trash.

This kind of logic is right and happens on other aspects of human behavior. The problem is that a small part of people that forms part of a group spoil it. So is not about quantity but quality.

 

[Nepenthe]

Even if it *was* illegal, as Weltall Zero said, the takeaway should be "wow that's messed up that that's illegal", not "oh well it's illegal so it's morally wrong".

It is always funny how people suddenly become armchair law experts whenever minorities decide to privately convene with each other without white men's involvement or permission. Even if they weren't wrong, they can't see that ultimately what they're doing is spending ample time and energy discrediting minority communing when they could be, I don't know, doing something positive against the harassment and environments that necessitate these events in the first place.

I mean, just imagine if we had the Internet back in the day. "Not only is taking slaves out of slavery ILLEGAL, but you're promoting the delayed treatment of their drapetomania."

 

[Mael]

It is always funny how people suddenly become armchair law experts whenever minorities decide to privately convene with each other without white men's involvement or permission. Even if they weren't wrong, they can't see that ultimately what they're doing is spending ample time and energy discrediting minority communing when they could be, I don't know, doing something positive against the harassment and environments that necessitate these events in the first place.

I mean, just imagine if we had the Internet back in the day. "Not only is taking slaves out of slavery ILLEGAL, but you're promoting the delayed treatment of their drapetomania."

Holy hell, I had to look up that term....
Of course the justifications would run to every corner of that accursed society.

They even had a sickness for freed slaves and how they secretly longed for the sweet embrace of the lashes...

 

[Lionel Richie]

Even if it *was* illegal, as Weltall Zero said, the takeaway should be "wow that's messed up that that's illegal", not "oh well it's illegal so it's morally wrong".

Yeah and besides, sorry for repeating myself here, even *if* this is illegal, no judge in his right mind would rule it like that. This situation is not what the law was created to regulate as anyone who isn't a complete moron can see that there was no malice intended by the organizers.

 

[Budi]

Being a victim of harassment does not make supporting the harassment of others any less daming. He's worse than a bystander. He will actively support bigotry and hate with the mantra, "Let's hear them out and find a place in the middle." Where is the middle ground between my existence is lesser than a white one?

The other two people I'm referring to are PewDiePie and TotalBiscuit.

TotalBiscuit is still involved in gaming and is well known throughout the industry.

PewDiePie got his fame from content that focused heavily on video games.

You can argue trending gaming is a popularity contest but that does not mean that the hosts of the event are required to nominate these types of people.

Bigotry shouldn't be met in the middle, absolutely not. And this thread isn't about Boogie so I won't go much further into this. I said earlier that people who silently accept/ignore the problems should be more vocal against bigotry too. And especially in this case instead of defending fellow Youtubers/internet personas and especially a friend, he should had been challenging them. And for the trending gamer, he got the award way before this defense of Jontron even happened. Hasn't he been preaching about acceptance and respect before that? Sargon he is not.

Edit: After thinking about this and writing about this. I realized how silly and scary it is that people look up to simple Youtubers and Vloggers without proper credentials as some kind of authorities, educators and role models in serious issues.

 

[kamineko]

Well I'm very concerned for the ladies but the way people talk about gamers is the real injustice

/s

I hope they give it another shot, their harassers make a solid case for a private women's event. In fact, those clowns make it look so obviously necessary that I'm surprised that there has been so much "egalitarian" hand-wringing over it

If marginalized folks want something for themselves, and you aren't yourself marginalized (except perhaps by deficits in reasoning capacity and charisma), consider the possibility that nobody is looking for a lecture from a top expert in theoretical oppression

 

[Weltall Zero]

I'm not going to entertain a parallel between attacking minorities and women over wanting to have a place in gaming with literal fragile people who dont wanna hear their hobby has a huge issue.

Then perhaps we should, because others most certainly will. Let's call specific people on their fragility for not accepting gaming's indeed huge social issues, instead of going out of our way to lump together everyone. Feeling that "our side" is in the right gives us no special moral rights to generalize over a group.

So I will lead by example with all the other posts I made in this thread where I clearly laid out my position. But naw I'm not gonna do the "both sides1!1!" shit and I encourage you to not either.

Again, this is an issue completely separate from any "side" and simply good rational discourse practice. Engaging in generalizations is detrimental to discourse, no matter if you are talking social justice or gardening.

Really, the fact she is having this event is to say "hey we can belong and navigate this too". I never said gaming is a lost cause.

I'm glad to hear that, but let's not act like it's not a common rallying cry in these threads including this one, as if with that the poster did everything they needed to change the underlying issues, when all they're achieving is contributing to a mentality of normalization.

I said they are fragile and everytime we have to explain why shit like this event is not a big deal it literally proves the point. The discussion we are having is reinforcing the point. This is about women in the community and industry having their stuff ruined. It isn't about #NotAllGamers

Using a hashtag with negative connotations to group together and ridicule every counterargument against you is strawmanning and also counter to rational argument, no matter if that hashtag is #NotAllMen or #Feminazis.

I'm simply tired of the hypocrisy of labeling someone as a "gamer" to snark at them in a videogame forum of all places. If you have no argument other than sticking labels to others then you're not a very good debater, and I don't care if your label is "gamer", "white knight", "sjw", "feminazi" or "n-word". And "being in the right" doesn't change that one bit.

But just to know where we stand, again, I fully agree the gaming community is incredibly toxic to women; and of course to repeat what I posted earlier, these events are not only good but necessary, and if they're illegal, then the law needs changing. We're on the same "side", which is why I am ten times more demanding and insist your discourse be without flaw: don't make our position unnecessarily vulnerable.

 

[Vinneh]

It's BS. Women should be allowed to play any event and not get harassed or anything. A women only event is just as bad.

 

[Nepenthe]

It's BS. Women should be allowed to play any event and not get harassed or anything. A women only event is just as bad.

You almost made it out of this post as an empathetic person.

 

[Budi]

It's BS. Women should be allowed to play any event and not get harassed or anything. A women only event is just as bad.

What is the negative effect of having women only discussion about women in gaming industry? Who is hurt by this and how? I can tell you what is the positive, there are no men there trying to turn the discussion off the rails. As happened in Vidcon for example.

 

[Weltall Zero]

You almost made it out of this post as an empathetic person.

Hahahah, so I wasn't the only one that had to read his post a couple times, right? It was such a non-sequitur I literally couldn't parse it at first.

Well I'm very concerned for the ladies but the way people talk about gamers is the real injustice

Of course it's not a bigger injustice, but if I think it is an injustice, why would I want my side to perpetuate it, weakening us all? It's like some of you have never debated in public.

 

[Lionel Richie]

It's BS. Women should be allowed to play any event and not get harassed or anything. A women only event is just as bad.

As bad as what? As harassment?

 

[Vinneh]

What is the negative effect of having women only discussion about women in gaming industry? I can tell you what is the positive, there are no men there trying to turn the discussion off the rails. As happened in Vidcon for example.

It leads to discimination. That's why feminism is just as bad as harassing women in the gaming industry. Feminism is not about equality anymore.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

It's always a junior*


*In that you always see random juniors 'coincidentally' show up in these threads to post crap, not that plenty of regular members never do that*

 

[Rookhelm]

"just as bad".


whoo boy

 

[Nepenthe]

It's always a junior.

Sometimes it's not, and that's when it gets really disturbing.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Report and move on, guys. Don't engage the trolls.

 

[Bahorel]

It leads to discimination. That's why feminism is just as bad as harassing women in the gaming industry. Feminism is not about equality anymore.

I don't even know where to begin.

 

[crash-14]

"Mens only" events happen already. They're just not named as such because, well... let's take a look at E3.

Finding ONE woman quickly turns into a Where's Waldo game

Wait, it's this post serious?

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Jesus Christ... these threads never fail to attract certain type of poster. And its almost always a junior.

 

[Vinneh]

I don't even know where to begin.

It's just that I think it's equally bad; shutting others out when we need to strive for equality.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Sometimes it's not, and that's when it gets really disturbing.

Yeah, I asterisked an edit to emphasize I'm not trying to discount the large number of normal members who believe this kind of stuff, just that it's hilariously predictable to see these specific types of threads coincidentally have juniors literally going through the talking points.

 

[LotusHD]

I don't even know where to begin.

Let's not begin then.

 

[Budi]

It leads to discimination. That's why feminism is just as bad as harassing women in the gaming industry. Feminism is not about equality anymore.

Does it? I thought the panel was supposed be held for women only because the discrimination and harassing is already happening towards women in gaming(not only in gaming though), no? How exactly this would lead into discrimination, walk me through the process. They have their event, they discuss what they discuss. What happens next, what is the negative outcome in this? How does the discrimination manifest after this.

 

[Massicot]

Wait, it's this post serious?

What's your issue with it?

 

[borges]

Yeah... so brave under web anonymity, I would like to see if any of these guys have the balls to say all of this face to face to the people they are harrasing.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Sometimes it's not, and that's when it gets really disturbing.

It's the opposite for me, when it's juniors I don't get a sense of accomplishment when they get banned, there'll always be more to come after them, like killing mosquitoes. With a long standing account, at least you get the feeling some long-festering shit was rooted out at last.

In any case it would be against my own earlier statement to blanket-label juniors. Most disposable alts, ignorant posters and other self-terminating accounts are juniors by their own nature, but most juniors aren't necessarily alts or ignorants.

 

[ViolentP]

What's your issue with it?

It's a picture of E3 that has no semblance on anything other than the pattern of people that were present at the time of the picture.

 

[Vinneh]

Does it? I thought the panel was supposed be held for women only because the discrimination and harassing is already happening towards women in gaming(not only in gaming though), no? How exactly this would lead into discrimination, walk me through the process. They have their event, they discuss what they discuss. What happens next, what is the negative outcome in this? How does the discrimination manifest after this.

Answered 3 post above. Equality is the keyword. So NO harassing women, but also no women only or men only events. Let's get together, let's not divide.

 

[CannonFodder52]

Seems like there's been an even greater abundance of these types of incidents in the last while.

Very gross Vidcon event is also on the front page at the moment.

 

[How About No]

Answered 3 post above. Equality is the keyword. So NO harassing women, but also no women only or men only events. Let's get together, let's not divide.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1398472

Here's why

Because pieces of shit like the ones here just can't help themselves

But yeah let's all get together in peace and harmony

 

[kamineko]

Of course it's not a bigger injustice, but if I think it is an injustice, why would I want my side to perpetuate it, weakening us all? It's like some of you have never debated in public.

I have, but it's hard to have a debate when there are so few arguable positions. Which, in turn, often leads to metadebate

But I get it. The issue here is, you know how it is, we've been responding to the same nonsensical claims re: women & vidya since August 2014 (and earlier, of course). Depending on how one has been affected, some posters are understandably tired of a cycle of shittiness that has no apparent end in sight. See the new Anita thread, for instance.

So some posters, they're just expressing exhaustion. I realize that it isn't going to win any arguments, but folks gotta unload sometimes.

I was't subposting at you directly, btw, there was more substance to your post than that.

 

[Rookhelm]

Answered 3 post above. Equality is the keyword. So NO harassing women, but also no women only or men only events. Let's get together, let's not divide.

Might want to tell that to the harassers of women, even when they show up in good faith (or doing something so innocuous as playing online).

 

[Budi]

Answered 3 post above. Equality is the keyword. So NO harassing women, but also no women only or men only events. Let's get together, let's not divide.

No not really. You said that having women only event would lead to discrimination. Men weren't excluded from this event because men would somehow be less worthy as people than women. Men were excluded because of the apparent sexism in gaming and it's culture. And the harassment/derailing/interruptions that it brings in events like this. For an example look at the latest Vidcon panel. Women are already discriminated, why not let them discuss within themselves too about these issues, freely, without fear, without interruption and derailing. What is the negative outcome in this? The reaction to this just proves that it's needed, since people can't behave and be decent. If they could exclude just the sexists and harassers, I'm sure they would do just that. But it's not possible.

 

[clearestblue]

It leads to discimination. That's why feminism is just as bad as harassing women in the gaming industry. Feminism is not about equality anymore.

Oh

 

[Massicot]

Answered 3 post above. Equality is the keyword. So NO harassing women, but also no women only or men only events. Let's get together, let's not divide.

Equity is the key word.

 

[Xadjim]

hmm, why excluding males from the event? Neither do I understand why there are female only Gyms.

 

[Vinneh]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1398472

Here's why

Because pieces of shit like the ones here just can't help themselves

But yeah let's all get together

Yeah thats wrong on so many levels. But that proves we need equality. Men need to shut the F up about women in gaming industry and we should all get along.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Fuck you. The same shitty 16 year old agressive nerds shitting on everything and you go blame "gamers", as in all the people with a deep passion for playing videogames.

Sorry for the harsh words, but it's true. It's time us completely normal person gamers did something about those little (and sometimes older) shitheads instead of letting them smear us.

How whiny. I'm a "gamer" too and didn't feel offended at the statement because I'm not that goddamn fragile.

Besides, the whole "it's just shitty 16 year old nerds" myth has long been dispelled.

This post reads a lot more like "shitty 16 year old aggressive nerd" than "completely normal person."

lol, right?

That's why feminism is just as bad as harassing women in the gaming industry.

Wow xD

 

[Bahorel]

Yeah thats wrong on so many levels. But that proves we need equality. Men need to shut the F up about women in gaming industry and we should all get along.

Educate yourself on feminism then before you decry it as harassment of men

 

[Vinneh]

Educate yourself on feminism then before you decry it as harassment of men

I never said that. It's just that feminism is not about equality anymore.

 

[Massicot]

I never said that. It's just that feminism is not about equality anymore.

I'll poke this hive. What is feminism about?

 

[Budi]

hmm, why excluding males from the event? Neither do I understand why there are female only Gyms.

Because too often women aren't respected, they aren't considered as equals, they are harassed. Just like some places have women only metro and railway passenger cars, to prevent the common sexual assaults in those. Should they get rid of those too?

 

[AtomskEater]

hmm, why excluding males from the event? Neither do I understand why there are female only Gyms.

Whoever organized the event wanted a place where women could come and feel safe and not have to deal with all the usual bullshit from a significant amount of dudes who play games, like being hit on or given quizzes about Mario's inseam (and then call fake gamer grlz when they either don't participate in or fail such tests).

Same reason some places have women only gyms or women only hours at gyms. Women want to go to workout, not be subject to "lil mama let me get your number" or some dude butting in on her workout to show her how it's really done, completely unsolicited.

Same reason there are women only cars on some trains in Japan, there is a huge problem with people taking advantage of the overcrowded cars to grope women. People are usually able to accept the reason why those exist easily enough.

Edit: Dangit Budi.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'll poke this hive. What is feminism about?

Duh, it's about punishing us men. Why else would the females want to hang out together? They can't possibly operate in a head space that's divorced from me, ergo excluding me from something is meant to punish me.