And the law is always right or what?
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Female only gaming event cancelled following online harassment
- Thread starter kulapik
- Start date
Using the law to justify this bullshit is the worst.
That guy is full of bs
http://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20...-de-genero-son-cometidos-por-extranjeros.html
The only thing I found is from a study made in 2011, so can't be applied right now, it is still probably high, but being spanish and watching the news, I can say that most of them are spanish.
That article popped up recently again as articles and on forums as if it were "2017 data".
That doesn't change the action. Being greedy doesn't excuse fucking people over.
Evils of the past? Laying blame on men for what other men have done? Sexism is over??
A female only event which was cancelled due to harrassment went over well.
Besides different political views...
Don't you feel dumb writing that?
Like do you notice anything?
Not reading OPs... you are definetly a Gaf member
And?
Fuck you. The same shitty 16 year old agressive nerds shitting on everything and you go blame "gamers", as in all the people with a deep passion for playing videogames.
Sorry for the harsh words, but it's true. It's time us completely normal person gamers did something about those little (and sometimes older) shitheads instead of letting them smear us.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Woman exclusive events only feel like blaming men if the men are thin skinned and selfish. A bunch of women want to congregate, play games and network. Why the fuck would this bother me?
Take it for what it is. Girls night. If this pisses you have you have issues. That is all there is to this shit. It's not complex.
It's not teenagers. These are grown adult men
Ofc, Im ok with it. The only thing that i stated was that it was against spanish laws, I dont like the ideas behind it but they are free of doing it the way they feel even if I find them wrong.
If they ignore or are oblivious to that privilege then they did something.
Also nobody is blaming anyone for "what happened in the past"... who needs the past when we have right now?
It's not illegal. There are many, many events and meetings that are exclusive for women in this country. Take, for example, the "Carrera de la Mujer". You can only participate if you are a woman. Has anyone ever complained about it? Have the authorities banned this event in any of its many years taking place? No. Why? Because it's not fucking illegal. It's so fucking legal that there's even a male version of this: Carrera del Hombre.
Yes. Because they didn't publicize it enough, precisely to avoid this. Your point is what, exactly?
psychowave
Member
"Son en su mayoría extranjeros"
43 fucking percent is the majority somehow
lol just reading that it's hard to trust that article. And I'd bet a month's salary that foreigners who abuse their wives/girlfriends are more persecuted than non-foreigners, which would skew the results.
Thanks for the link!
maybe they'd get more people if they didn't have to keep it secret to avoid harassment from men oh well
psychowave
Member
sorry double post
Gotdatmoney
Member
Gamers really are fragile
Most probably are just 20 grown men that influence hundreds of 16 year olds "because they're cool and famous shitposters"
#notallgamers
(No one is saying that all men are garbage, or that all gamers are trash. The fact that this needs to be clarified is asinine).
Carrera de la mujer was possible to run being men, at least until a year ago, I know they wanted to change it but Idk how they ended because I missed it. So far afaik men can run with them but cant 'participate'.
And Carrera del hombre didnt know it so I dont know the terms of it.
And ofc a lot of stuff happens that contradicts the constitution, but if nobody is bothered to denounce it nothing happens most of the time.
No, "gamers are trash" normalizes an atrocious behaviour in a community.
Fragile in that regard seems such a condescending word.
Making generalised statements is completely nonconductive to discussion. So yeah, let me be outraged for a bit.
It's been what, 3 years since GamerGate but somehow noone has thought of a way to combat the toxic online environment they have made. I mean, it's the classic minority terrorising the passive majority scenario.
Sexism isn't just a problem among 16 year olds. And you are right that something needs to be done about it, having these discussions and having people to admit and realize the problems is a big step for that change to happen. One part of realizing and admitting the problem is to see the problems among gaming communities and culture. Since we are on a gaming board afterall, it's quite natural that the discussion is often specific to sexism in gaming. In off-topic there's discussions about sexism in more broader sense.
While I do agree that blanket statements like "gamers are trash" are bit silly and inaccurate to make and in a way dismiss the bigger problem of sexism in societies. But in the light of everything that is happening it's also understandable. So arguing against it seems bit like semantics. Calling gamers trash because of sexism isn't really a problem. If the sexism would be fixed, nobody would call gamers sexist trash anymore. So let's start with that.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
I agree, it's completely disgusting, but there are countries where it is WAY worse. Spain is one of the most advanced european countries in that regard, and I think that's thanks to the big deal the made out of these crimes in the news.
I live in France and the sexism is over the roof here, women in their 30s that aren't married or with kids are a disgrace for them, there is also very narrowminded views in terms of hobbies they can do, clothes they have to wear, to name some examples.
Yeah no, people don't care about wether a women in their 30s is married or not in France. Barely anyone is getting married period.
I mean considering how many people with credit cards are signing up to hear more of Colin Moriartys gospel and how many adults are going up to bat for JonTron, I think you'd be surprised how many people over 18 really are out there who are joining the MRA movements. It's a shame that teenagers are growing up influenced by these people and will also grow into these sort of adults
MegaSackman
Member
The whole situation is terrible and ultimately absurd, why do these people care?
Also, ForoCoches!?
It doesn't surprise me tho, in my country the "Cars" community is the most "macho" of them all, I could guess that it works the same in "ForoCoches". I still don't get why they give a damn about this.
Also, ForoCoches!?
It doesn't surprise me tho, in my country the "Cars" community is the most "macho" of them all, I could guess that it works the same in "ForoCoches". I still don't get why they give a damn about this.
I understand that but in return, it's just terrible for discussion. You have to isolate that this is a select group of people.
I have heard "gamers are trash" in my 40 years so often, in so many shades in targeted at so many thing that I am allergic to that phrase.
CannonFodder52
Member
I'm pretty sure we can establish that there is a disproportionately high amount of trash people among folks who identity as "gamers"
Lionel Richie
Member
I don't claim to really know the law here so I'm legit asking: since the event would take place at King's offices, you know, the people who were organizing the event, how would that qualify as a public space?
I'm sorry if you take offense to my statement, but being a gamer no longer means what you want it to mean. It's not about being a passionate hobbyist anymore, the term has been co-opted to mean something really exclusive and shitty.
Yeah absolutely, it adds nothing to the discussion. It's an inflammatory comment. But people are venting I guess. The perception of people who play video games has changed among the years, it's not seen as something just for children and slackers or "nerds" anymore. But it's still very much seen as a boys/mens club and the incidents like this thread is about isn't helping. Or some of the posts here.
This post reads a lot more like "shitty 16 year old aggressive nerd" than "completely normal person."
I'm pretty sure something as major and visible as these races must have caught the eye of someone. Surely someone who thinks like you, who won't stop denouncing the mysandry and illegality of this event, must have tried to shut it down at least once, right?
Speaking about the Constitution of this country... Can you remind me what Article 57 says regarding the inheritance of the throne? Could it be that the oh-so-not-sexist Constitution is actually pretty blatantly sexist?
autoduelist
Member
Employers reducing staff if minimum wage was raised is -exactly- what those opposed to minimum wage raises warned against. You can't just lay the blame on 'greed', especially for smaller companies. Can that be a part of it? Sure. But of course there are going to be economic ramifications to changing economic policy, and one should recognize that instead of laying the blame on simple 'greed'.
And sex does sell, one study doesn't change that, no matter how much you might want it to. Both directly [porn, romance novels, perfumes and colognes, clothing, etc], indirectly [films, television, general branding, cars]. It's not surprising some people like to look at other, 'beautiful' people, and it's not surprising that self-identity has [unfortunately] been heavily linked to brand association by advertising agencies that spend billions to do just that. Now, I absolutely hate [most] advertising. I think the very concept of trying to sell people overpriced shit they don't need by exploiting psychological profiles is disgusting [essentially, profiteering by creating need/desire by creating a massive network of social pressures and problems that can only be 'solved' by buying products]. But it works. It works extremely well, even though every single person will say 'ads don't work on me'. And one facet of it working is that lame, but very true, adage that sex sells. It'll help sell everything from cars through deodorant, shoes through hair dye, books through condoms. It'll sell toothpaste [because you know what? If you don't use Crest, that woman at the party might turn the other way... but if you do? She's going to smile and her teeth will glint and you'll realize, she uses Crest too and both of you will know you're made for each other]. But you're free to think it doesn't work on the general populace, just like consumers that watched 30 hours of tv a week would claim ads don't work on them.
You make the mistake of thinking 'sex sells' means 'highly sexualized'. It doesn't. Not at all. Like I mentioned above, a simple smile from that guy down the bar in a beer commercial is 'sex selling'. Every commercial that implies their product will make you look better, or make someone smile at you, or help you in social interactions is 'sex selling'. It's deep rooted, and it exists at the level of propaganda that most people don't even notice. And you also make the mistake of thinking that even if you're somehow not affected, it means no-one else is either. Sex is a driving force in this world.
You mention corporate greed in your first paragraph. That's fine - I agree, corporations are greedy economic machines that are, all in all, terrible for this world. For everything they get right, they get it right for the wrong reasons, and they generally do far more harm than good. So don't excuse them for advertising. Understand advertising is a multi-billion dollar industry that has been researching our psychology and human frailties for decades and exploits our base emotions and desires by playing on [and developing] our fears, inadequacies, and insecurities. And that includes the concept of 'sex sells'. It does, they know it, and they abuse it.
JeTmAn81
Member
In my memory the term "gamer" has never had positive connotations. I've been playing games for most of my life and have never wanted to be called a gamer. Maybe we need a new word. Or maybe we don't need a word at all. It's not like people who like movies or books need special words to describe them. They're just normal.
This is still making it about you, and using the "not all males" argument. There are exclusive and inclusive events, this event just happens to exclude you, and me. Which is fine. There's no context in this event that says, "Fuck men. Let's make this about us." it's moreso "Let's create a space for us, in a space where we don't normally feel welcomed."
If you feel like women are blaming you for other men, then maybe you're acting like other men and you feel uncomfortable. On the matter of privilege, the best we can do, is acknowledge our privileges, and do our part to make shit a little easier for people who weren't so lucky.
Fitting ourselves into spaces that are not for us, is not how we do it. And no, it's not segregation, like some posters have been tryna argue.
Basically you have to make an event by invitation, thats the way of circunvent it, the moment you make an open event in a location it can be treated as a public space even if the place is private, for example, a football field is a private place, but when theres a football match it becomes a public event, as is for example, under the inspection of the police and under effect of spanish laws and citizens rights that cover the constitution. So you cant for example discriminate a woman or a man of entering a football field even if you are the owner.
It may have something to do also with the existance of male and female categories in sports, idk exactly how they do it there, I was looking to the men race stuff and it seems they cover it by distances and categories that are in the athletic program, so they may use that as an excuse.
And that part was already changed, the current successor to the throne is princess Leonor.
psychowave
Member
The Constitution also says that every citizen has a right to a home that's adequate for their needs but there's plenty of homeless people and poor disabled people who live in homes that aren't suited for their needs and the state does jack shit about this.
what im trying to say is that yo me limpio el culo con la Constitución
Gotdatmoney
Member
Critical and harsh analysis within a community you belong to isn't a problem. A dissenting opinion you dislike isn't worthy of "fuck you" given the context of the discussion we are having.
If you feel I'm being condescending it literally goes back to prove my point. Gamers are fragile. In yet another thread about women being harassed in the gaming community this is what sets you off?
Really? This? This is the relevant facts worth discussing to you?
Go to Twitch, pick a popular streamer doing their thing, and pay attention to what's going on in the chat.
Go to youtube, pick a popular Let's Player, and look at the comment section of their videos.
Do the same for Twitter. This is the worst one, nothing but toxicity.
That's not a ''select group of people''. Gaming culture isn't worth defending.
Exactly. I've grown past the point where I need a special word to feel some sort of kinship with people who share the same hobby as I do. Which is why I said what I did. Let the gators have the word gamer, I'm just a man who happens to be completely in love with video games and I don't need special words to point it out.
psychowave
Member
It's a meta-study of 78 different studies on the subject.
False analogy. The article from the Royal Decree that you keep citing only applies to "public shows and recreational activities", of which this event was neither.
I know. That's exactly my point: you used the Constitution as the end-all-be-all in terms of legality, when the truth is that it can, and actually does, change as society changes. That article was written when the heir to the throne was clearly a man, but it was changed once two girls were born from the king and queen. Bear in mind that it would change back if they suddenly decide to get a third child and it turns out to be a boy. Salic law, y'all.
It is not just 16 year olds.
It is also grown men. The recent Anita Sarkessian deal was a 30+ year old dude.
The sooner you guys start noticing it can be any male the better
Well that happens all the time so?
Yeah, all that says to me is that "hey if your show or activity is public you can't exclude people from it"
Why does everyone think that citizenship somehow equates to you having a degree in your country's constitution?
It's important to understand the context in which this occurs though. The drive for profit over the well being of people is a flaw of capitalism. The sad thing is, there is a problem in the US that people working minimum wage jobs cannot survive well without support. So either corporations take that upon themselves via minimum wage, or the people take it upon themselves in form of social programs supported by tax. In this case, it is greed that drives capitalists to forgo the responsibility of taking care of people and instead that falls on the people.
Please read the study, this is not a situation of what I want to believe. This isn't me saying that social trends aren't influenced by advertising. What I'm saying is that in my experience sexualized ads make me less interested in a product. This study would support that.
Darryl M R
Member
There is a discussion to be had on why the word gamer has been used as a word to self-identify. I remember listening to one podcast of TotalBiscuit,
GG-pusher
To me it sounds like a bunch of children.
I've been playing video games since I was 6; I do not use the word gamer to describe myself. I'm just a guy that enjoys playing video games. And it's interesting how some that do describe themselves as a gamer will argue that other people are not true gamers.
Gotdatmoney
Member
The people that do this just wanna stir shit.
Thats false, the principle of equality covers any event, no matter the nature of it and before that quote you cited it theres an AND:
'Se entiende por derecho de admisión la facultad que tienen los titulares de los establecimientos públicos y los organizadores de espectáculos y de actividades recreativas'