Shouta
Member
Not if folks actually want to spend 15-20 seconds before a match to delete it from the system.
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Not if folks actually want to spend 15-20 seconds before a match to delete it from the system.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The worst
notworksafe
Member
¯\_(ツ
_/¯Blame Sony for having a retarded controller system. If they had removable batteries, this wouldn't be an issue.
BumblebeeCody
Member
Give money.
Seriously. It doesn't even take that long. Shit is mad easy.
Does connecting a PS3 controller via USB automatically pair it via Bluetooth? If so, maybe Sony could add an option to change the default behavior to only pair when it's specifically requested.
Or, like Shouta said, TOs could just add "remove paired bluetooth devices" to their post-match procedure.
Or, like Shouta said, TOs could just add "remove paired bluetooth devices" to their post-match procedure.
Shouta
Member
PS3 pads don't connect to PS4s via Bluetooth.
PS4s link to PS4 systems via USB yes. Adding that option would be nice but unlikely as the majority of people don't need the option.
Lostconfused
Member
Ah yes because it's incredibly common for any sort of device these days to have an accessible battery, or anything else for that matter. Might as well blame the economy, government, and god.¯\_(ツ
Blame Sony for having a retarded controller system.
notworksafe
Member
Xbox One controllers have removable batteries. They will act as wired controllers when plugged in via USB and will automatically disconnect when unplugged if they have no batteries in them.
Shouta
Member
It's not feasible for TOs to do it all the time. It really needs to be done by players because of how simple and quick it is. It can be done as a part of the button check.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Oh, I didn't even realize I wrote that. I meant to say "donkey kick".
Makes sense. The message needs to be drilled during events too, till it's standard practice all round. "Make sure your DS4 is the only one that's paired! Don't fall victim to hacks!"
notworksafe
Member
Curious if Wizard will stick to his stance of not allowing DS4s at EVO next year. RIP pad players if so lol.
There are converters out there so they'll be fine. Brooks is a company that is making them by the dozen and they work pretty well on PS4.
I would, especially since it originally came from the earliest games in the series, where I would argue it wasn't really intended (if only because they didn't a solid direction for the game's mechanics until VF2, at the absolute earliest). That and VF1 and 2 also had some really gross offensive OSs, where you would have silly stuff like Wolf OSing between a fast elbow and a throw that took off half your health.
Never mind the moving of the goalposts (regarding some of the comments with regards to OSs in GG), Virtua Fighter would be one example here. It's clear that some of the mechanics (sidesteps, crouch dashes, throw breaks) were rather explicitly designed to be layered on top of each other to set up mutli-faceted OSs, and it's been that way since the mechanics were originally introduced in VF3. The fact that they were all explicitly designed and have baked in limitations (like not being able to guard if you input more than two throw breaks at once or failed evades having enough minimum recovery to guarantee throw attempts) also means that a hard read will beat any OS, which is (in my opinion, anyway) a good thing for the game.
I started seeing these pop up, but it's unclear how well they actually work. Do they add any extra input lag? Will they last more than a week? Will they eat USB ports in the process? I've seen some suspect converters do some really weird things.
Shouta
Member
I hate converters for old hardware to work on new ones. All of the ones I've ever seen had a bit of delay at best or really fucked a system up at worst, lol
notworksafe
Member
The etokki ones for PS2->360 were pretty good.
notworksafe
Member
I don't play pad so I dunno about lag. They didn't break consoles so they're better than the crap out now.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Converters suck
This is very true. I hate dealing with converters and they can really screw up a match for you if they act up.
shaowebb
Member
Depends...the PS2 to Wii converter I got works amazingly well for TVC. I know Sixfortyfive rocks the Saturn pad a lot for things. He could probably name some old converters that are also good. Not certain about any current gen stuff on market though.
Shouta
Member
Yeah, I thought the etokki ones were bad especially after I went back to the native PS3 pads and the MCZ SFxT ones.
I saw some of the more prominent anime members mentioning dropped inputs at Arc Revo but I wonder if it's really because of the system or if it's simply player error or just not being used to the PS4 pad. I know that when I play P4U2 on a PS3 pad vs a PS4 one, I have trouble with certain aspects of my Ken/Koromaru combos unless I'm super mindful because of the differences between the pads.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Ps1-ps3 dpads create bad habits due to looseness.
Ps4 is more firm and reads inputs more properly
use the middle
you can do half the movements with one direction
Ps4 is more firm and reads inputs more properly
use the middle
darkblade77
Member
I never give 3D fighters enough thought when I say this stuff. If this design wasn't the result/extension of how the prior VFs ended up developing in the meta, then I'll concede that one.
re: goalposts - There's a clear difference between having OSes emerge and letting your playerbase figure out whether they'll open hell on the system or not and intentionally putting them in from the beginning with confidence hell won't open up; I don't think Xrd or that Sol example inferred the latter happening. The work was already done for them. It's not work a developer can do easily or even feasibly when making a game from the ground up, and probably at least part of why they co-opted the existing engine to begin with. The latter is what I meant by my original statement, though I would say adding OSes yourself directly to a model you know more or less works is still playing with fire, IMO.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I was fucking up basic fireball motions on ps4 at first because I got so used to never having to hit the diagonals on them because the controller ended up doing it for you.
It made doing Makoto's parry hard as hell since it had to be a straight back to forward with no other inputs between. And the old ps pads rarely let you press with finess
It made doing Makoto's parry hard as hell since it had to be a straight back to forward with no other inputs between. And the old ps pads rarely let you press with finess
Shouta
Member
Going back to the OS stuff, I generally don't like OS because it's just replacing layers of decision making with new ones instead of just adding on top. In addition, it usually adds another level of mechanical complexity that's required to be able to play on that layer. For example, there are a bunch of decisions that result from the existence of crouch tech in SF4 but the crouch tech actually removes the initial do I block/counterattack the strike or do I break the throw decision and where that thread would lead to. I mean technically, crouch tech doesn't physically remove its individual components but why would you do those when you have something that covers both?
That said, While I generally don't like OS, I don't mind it in a game where the OS has built-in limitations or there are easy options to deal with it. VF5 is a game with a ton of OS potential but built in limitations for them as Kumubou points out. Additionally, the OS aren't hard and they're are always simple and accessible ways of handling it for the entire cast.
I'd prefer they didn't exist but the cost of getting rid of them might be reducing the playability of a game depending on the ones that you want to get rid of and I think most designers don't really want to make their game play worse for the sake of getting rid of that stuff. Which means, time for me to go play MOBAs!
It's not just the pad but shortcuts are more prominent now too. I went back to playing CvS2 on my PS1 (on PS2) and PS3 pad (when the classics released) and a lot of inputs were stricter so you had to be clean or you wouldn't get it.
That said, While I generally don't like OS, I don't mind it in a game where the OS has built-in limitations or there are easy options to deal with it. VF5 is a game with a ton of OS potential but built in limitations for them as Kumubou points out. Additionally, the OS aren't hard and they're are always simple and accessible ways of handling it for the entire cast.
I'd prefer they didn't exist but the cost of getting rid of them might be reducing the playability of a game depending on the ones that you want to get rid of and I think most designers don't really want to make their game play worse for the sake of getting rid of that stuff. Which means, time for me to go play MOBAs!
It's not just the pad but shortcuts are more prominent now too. I went back to playing CvS2 on my PS1 (on PS2) and PS3 pad (when the classics released) and a lot of inputs were stricter so you had to be clean or you wouldn't get it.
I've been watching Capcom Cup Scheldue and the week of 24th to 27th it's going to be huge. And I'm thinking that any american that wants to get to Capcom Cup needs to mark those days in the calendar
That week Europe has 2 ranking events
1 in UK and another in Norway.
The thing it's that that exact week the Kuwait premier event it's taking place. What does it mean? Europe scene will be split in half that weekend and I'm pretty sure that no asian will attend those ranking events when Kuwait it's nearest to them (Probably cheaper flight also).
The only question mark here it's what will the french players do. Will they go to UK since I'm pretty sure it's cheaper, or will they go to Norway, where besides Phenom and probably Veggey - Kenpachi there won't be competition (As far as I know).
I think some US players should be aiming to that Norway ranking event in order to take some points...
That week Europe has 2 ranking events
1 in UK and another in Norway.
The thing it's that that exact week the Kuwait premier event it's taking place. What does it mean? Europe scene will be split in half that weekend and I'm pretty sure that no asian will attend those ranking events when Kuwait it's nearest to them (Probably cheaper flight also).
The only question mark here it's what will the french players do. Will they go to UK since I'm pretty sure it's cheaper, or will they go to Norway, where besides Phenom and probably Veggey - Kenpachi there won't be competition (As far as I know).
I think some US players should be aiming to that Norway ranking event in order to take some points...
notworksafe
Member
IIRC it'll act as a wired controller when plugged in. But plugging it in also syncs it to the console so it'll still be connected via Bluetooth when unplugged.
Shouta
Member
Right, this is correct. It also syncs them to the console in addition to acting like a wired pad.
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
The term "pad player" shouldn't even be a thing at this point.
The etokki works fine for me on Xbox, everyone I had played for marvel hadn't complained about laggy inputs. The PS4 one was working fine too for Brooks, people were landing 1 frame combos like it was nothing. I will note that there is noticeable lag for converters meant for PS3, they really suck.
Didn't he allow them this year?
I think the teeth gnashing now is more over the logistics over wireless pads at tournaments. However, I think the PS4 letting you desync controllers console-side makes it much less of a pain in the ass. This is what how I would propose handling it as a TO:
- During check-in for a pool, whoever is running the bracket should clear all synced devices from the PS4s the pool is using. This will prevent random controller pauses from players from earlier pools (and whoever else may have been dicking with the stations).
- Pad players should be strongly encouraged to desync their controller after every match. It takes about 10 seconds, seriously. Not every player will remember to do this, but it'll be much more likely with the next point.
- If all of the devices are wiped before the start of a pool, the only players that could cause a third-party pause are players in that pool. Which also makes it much easier to track down whoever was responsible. If a player forgets to desync their controller and ends up causing a pause in a game they are not a party to, they would then be disqualified from the tournament as it would be considered outside interference. Sounds harsh? It is -- so remember to desync your damn controllers!
sixteen-bit
Member
desk w/ some more vs combos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TayBST0WN4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TayBST0WN4g
notworksafe
Member
Yep. When I emailed him to ask if I needed to remove the battery in my DS4 for playing MKX he said that DS4s would only be allowed this year.
This is our policy right now for locals since there aren't too many good wired PS4 alternatives right now. A lot of players are using the FC4 so I think the problem will fix itself over time, at least for local events.
That's what they did at Summer Jam. Granted it was hectic and a lot of them weren't charged. There were ways people circumvented the problem and were able to use their old pads. Quite a few players figured out that anything PS3 related can be connected, just depends what it is. A player was able to connect his PS3 madcatz pad to the PS4 by first connecting the PS4 pad, removing it, then connecting his pad. Its really weird and some solution has to come soon since now most of the upcoming tournaments for USF4 will be on PS4.
Shouta
Member
Locals won't be too much of a problem, I think. Most folks can be reminded to delete DS4s at smaller events. It's when scaling up that'll be the issue.
The problem I have with banning DS4s is that we don't have a very good options for wired pads that will be around for as long as we use the PS4. Sure we have Hori's FC4 right now but the FC3 went out of production a few years before we got done with last console gen. Madcatz's SFxT pads have been super hard to find the last two years as well without a huge mark up because they stopped producing them.
That's the Skullgirls driver implementation for the Madcatz pads, I believe. The implementation of that driver is shit for SF4 (and all other games that use it) so it's not a very good option, lol.
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