TurboKiller
Neo Member
How is this gonna work with multiple characters. If everyone else is reduced to a few commands and Cloud is the only one actually controllable..... I don't know how I would feel about it.
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Final Fantasy VII Remake: Nomura Confirms Combat is Action Based
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
The Last One
Member
Probably the same way Versus would work before becoming XV.
PaulBizkit
Member
Well, I like KH's action gameplay but the best part of the turn-based system was that you controlled all three of the characters in your party. Now you only control Cloud and give the other 2 some AI commands i guess
Shifty1897
Member
This is the biggest piece of non news I've heard all day.
Lots of people seem utterly surprised by it, even though the last trailer's footage was staring them right in the face.
"I wonder if Mario Odyssey will be a 3D platformer?"
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
Aye, why are people so worked up about this?
wvnative
Member
They confirmed the day the game was announced that you can freely take control of any party member.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Today in "No shit Sherlock" news...
I mean, it was quite evident. I wonder if we'll see another high profile turn based JRPG from SE.
I mean, it was quite evident. I wonder if we'll see another high profile turn based JRPG from SE.
I have played through the original so many times now as it was my favorite game of all time
, so I can only take these changes with open arms honestly. To me, FF games were never about the combat system, but the adventure the party experienced. It'd be really cool to play through it in a different way than before, I think.
I can understand why some people are upset that it's not turn-based anymore, but some of the arguments for why it should be turn-based are pretty bad honestly. FFVII's combat system weren't really all that strategic, you could easily just mash attack every turn and then when you were low you would just have someone with a cure materia equipped heal the party. If there were an enemy that had an elemental weakness you would just scan the enemy and then spam the materiaspell and that was it basically. You had options, but there were never really any point of using it unless you had to.
While they could make a turn based combat system that was better than the original, they could easily make a very good action combat system too.
Besides, Nomura has always been more keen on Action based combat, why act surprised when he directs a game than ends up being an action combat game?
now Zelda BotW has that spot
I can understand why some people are upset that it's not turn-based anymore, but some of the arguments for why it should be turn-based are pretty bad honestly. FFVII's combat system weren't really all that strategic, you could easily just mash attack every turn and then when you were low you would just have someone with a cure materia equipped heal the party. If there were an enemy that had an elemental weakness you would just scan the enemy and then spam the materiaspell and that was it basically. You had options, but there were never really any point of using it unless you had to.
While they could make a turn based combat system that was better than the original, they could easily make a very good action combat system too.
Besides, Nomura has always been more keen on Action based combat, why act surprised when he directs a game than ends up being an action combat game?
Berserking Guts
Member
I knew it was gonna happen, but. Fuck. I've never liked any of Squares action based games, so this leaves me with little confidence or excitement.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Turn based combat is a cornerstone of the JRPG formula. That the remake of the game that birthed the genre is doing away with it is, frankly, a disgrace. I guess all you young kids lack the patience to deal with the deep and tactical gameplay of the original game. You kids just want instant gratification. If that's what you want, go back to your WRPGs like Mass Effect and Dark Souls. Nomura already ruined games like XIII with gameplay for the ADD generation. As someone who grew up with the game, I would hate to see him similarly ruin the game that started it all
BossDarkseid
Member
did you miss a /s?
FF7 started jrpgs?
Nomura designed combat for FFXIII(?)?
Kids?
i fail at reading sarcasm on the internet so forgive me
Berserking Guts
Member
Does anyone think square will ever embrace turn-based again for mainstay FF games, and reinvigorate the formula the same way capcom did for RE7 and nintendo did for BotW? Will Square ever look back for mechanical inspiration?
They have used TUrn Based several times in the last few years so they already do what your asking.
Riposte
Member
Only indirectly related, but:
FFVII wasn't turn-based. Most of the Final Fantasy games, and many other JRPGs, are not turn-based. Not being turn-based is exactly what the phrase Active Time Battle (ATB) is trying to get across. It's like people look at a JRPG, recognize its form, but then call that form the entirely wrong thing.
What people call "turn-based" is actually no or simple movement or positioning in a tactics game (usually menu-driven). Characters don't move in combat. There may be some sort of distance mechanic, but it's often abstracted into 2 or 3 simple "ranks", or is highly incidental/random. Has pretty much nothing to do with time.
(XI, XIII, and XIV were big departures, dipping into lock-on/auto-attack MMO-style, while XV has gone full-blown action game.)
FFVII wasn't turn-based. Most of the Final Fantasy games, and many other JRPGs, are not turn-based. Not being turn-based is exactly what the phrase Active Time Battle (ATB) is trying to get across. It's like people look at a JRPG, recognize its form, but then call that form the entirely wrong thing.
What people call "turn-based" is actually no or simple movement or positioning in a tactics game (usually menu-driven). Characters don't move in combat. There may be some sort of distance mechanic, but it's often abstracted into 2 or 3 simple "ranks", or is highly incidental/random. Has pretty much nothing to do with time.
(XI, XIII, and XIV were big departures, dipping into lock-on/auto-attack MMO-style, while XV has gone full-blown action game.)
BossDarkseid
Member
Probably. They've said as much that they don't consider it dead, it just doens't come up when designing mailnine titles. They said spin offs or stuff like BD could use it, or even XVI if the team decides to.
LordKasual
Banned
That's the equilivent of playing DMC and refusing to level any of the styles or gain new moves. The game got significantly more fun when I realized how powerful the team abilities are. And playing the game after acquiring infinite airstep and Impervious (the tech roll after being hit) made endgame WAY more fun than without it.
Final Fantasy is not the type of game to heavily punish you for not using its mechanics. It has never been that type of game series.
Just about the only game that did was Final Fantasy XIII, and it did it in the most artifical way possible. (Leader death = game over, no paradigm management during battle, no character switching during battle)
Edit:
FFXV seriously should update itself and have the recovery technique (impervious) be part of Noct's basic moveset, and just have the 333AP skill cause it to recover damage as usual. Being able to recover after being knocked down makes the combat feel soooooooooo much more fluid.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
LOL at VII being "deep and tactical". "Keep attacking until everything dies, and use Cure if someone's HP is low" was the only strategy you needed.
Oh wait, I forgot about those cerebral challenges like "if enemy absorbs an element, don't use that element" and "if enemy telegraphs that he's going to counter, wait until he stops doing that".
You're right, I don't think today's generation of gamers can wrap their feeble minds around such complex, strategic decision making.
Vincent Grayson
Member
There has *never* been a remake on the scale of this. They're literally turning one of the most revered titles in its genre into a multi-game AAA title on modern consoles like it was developed today. There's no blueprint for FF7r to follow as far as remakes go.
LordKasual
Banned
So what about Tales and Star Ocean, hmm??
SoraNoKuni
Member
Great, pure turn based RPGs are dead either you like it either you not.
It's a niche genre and only Persona does it good nowadays.
(Note: Persona 4 golden and Digimon world 3 are in my top 5 list.)
It's a niche genre and only Persona does it good nowadays.
(Note: Persona 4 golden and Digimon world 3 are in my top 5 list.)
Vincent Grayson
Member
Why bother arguing with someone who is suggesting that FF7 invented JRPGs and Nomura designed FFXIII's combat?
Or, frankly, someone who suggests FF7 had deep and tactical gameplay.
Mihos
Gold Member
Then why the hell do a remake.... for all the people who hated the original?
Lol, yeah.
Probably not. They're doomed for mobile/handheld entries.
There are lots of RPGs with action oriented combat that allow you to control every character.
Vincent Grayson
Member
You do a remake with gameplay to appeal to a modern audience, using the world, story, and characters that people loved 20 years ago.
Gameplay conventions have changed a lot since then. Stories, the characters, the music, all that stuff on the other hand, is timeless.
If I want to play FF7 again, I can do that right now. But if I want to experience it like I did in 1997, I've got to wait for the remake which will hew much closer to the feeling of playing the game back when it first came out, at least IMO.
A contemporary example of this is Doom 2016. It's not a remake, of course, but it very much took the feeling I had in 1993 and made me feel that again in 2016. Managing to do that while moving across decades of technology is impressive, and I hope like hell that FF7r manages the same.
Believe me, none of us are arguing in favor of SE releasing a shitty FF7 remake. We're just saying that a good action system sounds like fun, and that maybe the old system wasn't especially integral to the rest of the experience.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
without AI? Cuz I'm pretty sick of AI teammates.
I find it amazing that people have decided that the gameplay genre is not integral to what the game was. Doom 2016 is the same genre as the original doom, and its fantastic for it. Square is remaking a game from a genre thats completely dead among higher production value releases and spitting it into another genre that we are completely flooded with. Its depressing. If all you care about is what modern audiences want, whats the point of a remake. Go make a new game.
They have the perfect system for this with Gambits but I'd bet you a thousand bucks they won't fucking use it.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Expected but very disappointing all the same. It doesn't need to be a new game. I wish they understood that. Trying to fix what isn't broken is the reason the franchise has fallen so far from its peak.
Did you play Trails of Cold Steel?
LordKasual
Banned
I dont know.
You guys make a good points. Perhaps I should just ignore it.
But sometimes, i just really want to know what's going through a person's mind when they say stuff with such conviction. I want to know how they respond when you poke holes into their silly statements.
BossDarkseid
Member
Man, I loved Gambits. I always felt the complaint of it plays itself was weird since that was literally your choice, and you set it up. Maybe not the most exciting but I enjoyed trying out tactics and seeing how it unfolded. Ito said PS3/360 weren't powerful enough for his full realization of that system so *stares at imaginary FFXVI poster* I'm hoping...
So true!
ethomaz
Banned
It is turn-based even if enhanced... the commands happens in turn order.
I-III: Fully turn-based system.
IV-IX: Turn-based system with with dimension of timing for commands called Active Time Battle (ATB).
FFX: Own unique turn-based system called Conditional Turn-Based Battle (CTBB).
FFT: Turn-based system called Charge Time Battle (CTB).
Main FF games will not use Turn base combat anymore. You people can stop dreaming about it and move on. As a turned base FF fan in the past myself, I love FF15's combat.
For those who haven't played or don't even know the original, and those who loved the original and are excited to see it reimagined (like me). I don't need the exact same game just with modern visuals, as that would never have the same emotional impact on me as the original had when I was a kid, anyway, so why not try something new. Let 3 of the key figures behind the original (Kitase, Nomura, and Nojima) modernize and flesh-out their own vision before they're retired and someone else would do it.
Perfectly said.
Lights and Waves
Member
I don't understand how so many people in this thread are surprised. There's been battle footage for ages now. Where have y'all been?
What? First and foremost, FF7 didnt birth jrpgs, and the gameplay in FF7 was anything but deep, or challenging for that matter, and FF7 is my favorite game ever, he also didnt have anything to do with XIII besides character designs, and how is nomura ruining anything either when hes the one that wrote the story along with sakaguchi, and was also the character designer and battle visual director in the OG FF7
So i ask you, do you even know what you're talking about, besides throwing random words about stuff you randomly read on the internet
So, speaking on the remake, if I just wanted a straight 1:1 remake i'd rather just play the OG, i want something more exciting out of the remake, of course, i have some worries like how character progression is gonna work between parts(Leveling, weap/Armor and materia), i also want somethings to stay as close to the original as possible, but thats more on story and that they ignore most of the compilation,
i want them to forget Genesis even exists, some of the stuff in Crisis Core, like certain characters depictions or events in that game, how Zack was depicted as some kind of Deus Ex Machina, and make Zacks death closer to its original depiction as well
No
No, no no.
No.
Your opinion is wrong and you should feel bad. Very bad. XV's combat was a travesty. XII's was great and I think where the FF series should have gone towards, and XIII was creative as hell and a really neat twist. XV was terrible even among other action RPGs.
I'm normally more of a fan of more turn based systems, but I've definitely been a big fan of some action RPGs over the years. FFXV completely dropped the ball in terms of FF battle systems and amongst other action RPGs. It had some flashiness to it, maybe. Other than that it was almost entirely devoid of actual skills to use, combat and encounter variety were nonexistent, there's no way to control 2 of the 3 party members you have, the system completely fell apart with more than like 2 enemies, and they just said fuck it when the system wouldn't work at all for their big encounters. It was a wretched pile of crap unbefitting of the FF moniker and pales in comparison to other action RPGs that exist.
Riposte
Member
Honestly, the Tales-derived games don't really fit in with the rest of JRPGs (in the Dragon Quest-derived variety) outside the whole battlefield effect (which I would say ends up very 3D fighting game-ish, or 2D for the older ones). That's just something people brush over entirely.
Also, you don't need to go that far, because FFVII is literally not turn-based and FFX is the only turn-based FF after VII.
I tried to read this thread, I really did, but uh no thanks.
I'm am completely fine with this, we already know that all party characters are playable and that the party works in the same way, 3 at a time and changeable.
Above all else I'm excited to see the world of FFVII remade in full 3D, looking as beautiful as it does in the trailer, with maybe a little more color. The original is so wacky and strange, and they need to capture that or this remake will be missing a lot of what made VII, VII.
I'm am completely fine with this, we already know that all party characters are playable and that the party works in the same way, 3 at a time and changeable.
Above all else I'm excited to see the world of FFVII remade in full 3D, looking as beautiful as it does in the trailer, with maybe a little more color. The original is so wacky and strange, and they need to capture that or this remake will be missing a lot of what made VII, VII.
Mihos
Gold Member
Maybe it is time to just move on. There will be plenty of other games to play.