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Final Fantasy XIII on Steam October 9th, $16; full trilogy by Spring 2015
- Thread starter fantomena
- Start date
I don't recall him wanting to be a hero just to feel good in front of people end game.
uncredited male
Member
I am convinced "Moms are tough" would have been seen as a serious and introspective line if Snow had not been in that scene.
threelights
Member
So, from a guy who didn't play a single game in the trilogy...
Are the characters really bad or is it stuff like poor translation and/or design that ruins them? Or are they well made characters that people just don't like?
And the story? Is it the type of story that is only good if you read everything about it or is it bad independently of what you do?
I'll probably pick it up just to see that battle system, so I guess I'll answer my own questions eventually, but I just wanted to know a little beforehand, I know nothing about XIII other than "it's bad".
Are the characters really bad or is it stuff like poor translation and/or design that ruins them? Or are they well made characters that people just don't like?
And the story? Is it the type of story that is only good if you read everything about it or is it bad independently of what you do?
I'll probably pick it up just to see that battle system, so I guess I'll answer my own questions eventually, but I just wanted to know a little beforehand, I know nothing about XIII other than "it's bad".
exmachina64
Banned
BasilZero
Member
Watching this has hyped me up more for the PC version
I enjoyed playing the PS3 version 2 years ago though
threelights
Member
Geez...
Well, I want to try this "sadness trilogy" out, maybe the battle system and soundtrack carries the game, maybe I'll just play it to be amused (I like playing bad games =P), or maybe I'll drop it once I see that even after 20 hours it's not worth it haha.
frostshade
Neo Member
For what it's worth:
Gameplay is ok. Music is nice. Graphics have Durante's seal of approval after he tinkers with it.
Story is YMMV. My perspective is that most JRPG stories aren't very great (even the almighty insane Xenogears hasn't convinced me otherwise) so really, it just comes down to whether you can tolerate it or not.
Lightning Returns has a pretty good battle system though for that matter. The graphical and technical fidelity is terribad though. No comment on story.
this video did a great job of reminding us of all the forgettable villains in the game
^ What, you don't like old man with cane, generic silver haired general dude or power generator? Those are the greatest villains of all time!
On thing you have to look forward to is that the production values of the first game are actually quite good. The fuck up that is the crystal tools engine aside, everything looks pretty for a 2009 multiplat game. Too bad you wont actually be able to explore any of it, but still.
Definitely soundtrack and battle system for me.
Speaking of crystal tools, because its on that engine, don't really expect any kind of extra graphical tweaks besides higher resolutions. You should consider it a miracle it even runs. I also would not recommend going up to beyond 1080p, because the cut-scenes are prerendered at 1080p, and going higher is gonna introduce macro-blocking and artifacting.
On thing you have to look forward to is that the production values of the first game are actually quite good. The fuck up that is the crystal tools engine aside, everything looks pretty for a 2009 multiplat game. Too bad you wont actually be able to explore any of it, but still.
Definitely soundtrack and battle system for me.
Speaking of crystal tools, because its on that engine, don't really expect any kind of extra graphical tweaks besides higher resolutions. You should consider it a miracle it even runs. I also would not recommend going up to beyond 1080p, because the cut-scenes are prerendered at 1080p, and going higher is gonna introduce macro-blocking and artifacting.
threelights
Member
Hmm, well, I can tolerate a lot if I don't expect much from the game, so I guess I'll be fine.
So, since you don't like any JRPG story, how low is XIII for you?
for LR the graphical and technical part of it won't be much of a problem after a few mods, right? I'll be looking forward to that then.
EDIT: @Inuhanyou, Got it, my monitor is not even that big, so I'll stick to whatever they give by default then. Also, graphically wise I'm more looking forward to designs and art styles rather than good models and textures.
JRPG's can have great stories IMO. 13 trilogy just isn't one of them. And they got progressively more worse and nonsensical the deeper into the trilogy you go.
frostshade
Neo Member
in terms of modern day review score scale, like 6-7.
As a story, it wasn't terribad. Just boring imo.
If I were to critically analyze jrpg stories, then the apparent issues/criticisms would cause me to lose interest in the stories very fast.
If I don't, I can enjoy them just fine.
Tactic Ogre and Fire Emblem have decent stories imo.
To be perfectly honest, the FF games tend to be more similar than people realize in terms of story, so certain expectations pop up with regards to certain story elements/concepts. FF13 doesn't really adhere to those expectations.
SoulUnison
Banned
Are you kidding? Hope's *entire* character arc is his reaction to the game's opening events and how he has to balance it with the fact that taking revenge would mean dooming himself, too.
Hope has completely reasonable reactions to things, the most character development of anyone in XIII, and was my personal favorite playable character.
I've heard people say they disliked Hope for being "whiny," which is bullshit considering the events and situations he's facing, but I don't think I've ever heard someone say he *under* reacts.
Did you skip every cutscene, or something?
Sometimes I feel like people aren't going to be happy until they get a Final Fantasy whose playable party looks like they've been ripped from Gears of War, or something.
A party of interchangeable "space marine" types just swearing, bro-dude-ing it up and being "awesome."
threelights
Member
Nice, I want some crazy nonsense from the last games.
I can bear little exploration, but I want a story that at least has stuff happening (be it good or bad).
Fair enough, I can handle that. I tend to see problems on JRPG stories, but I usually look the other way, that's my way of enjoying them =P
Also, I'll agree with those games, they're pretty good story-wise.
frostshade
Neo Member
Humans in general don't react very well to angst/depression/negative emotions in another person/people. I've seen many a case where depressed characters aren't well received in comparison to optimistic characters. So, I'd assume it might be human nature. That's my perspective anyway.
I find it funny how for FF stories that it's usually up to a few people in a team to figure out the right story that can sell itself to millions of people and profit as well.
Hope's a good character.
Him wanting to take it out on snow is very reasonable considering snow was egging civilians to join him in a fight against a military force.
His mom was desperate and decided to join the fight to protect her son.
I also really love his interactions with lightning.They change each other in equal measure because they are so parallel to each other.
They could've cut the melodrama but its a good character arc overall.
Didn't mean people were fighting ,but rather discussing stuff that isn't news..nevermind my post.
Him wanting to take it out on snow is very reasonable considering snow was egging civilians to join him in a fight against a military force.
His mom was desperate and decided to join the fight to protect her son.
I also really love his interactions with lightning.They change each other in equal measure because they are so parallel to each other.
They could've cut the melodrama but its a good character arc overall.
Didn't mean people were fighting ,but rather discussing stuff that isn't news..nevermind my post.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I'm surprised that more people aren't positive towards Snow. It seemed like people were talking about how they wished more characters were less depressed, and would act more like Snow.
It's all good, I took it too literal
I dislike him mainly because he is very loud and obnoxious.
I was happy lightning and hope were pissed at him.
Its ok
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Would you mind expounding on this? Isn't this generally the case with every entertainment medium?
frostshade
Neo Member
FF is one of the few jrpg series which hits the millions in terms of sales while being known for it's story telling so it's a bit different.
The team has the pressure of knowing that:
a)they need to meet the legacy of previous FF's
b)sell in the millions
c)create iconic characters for marketing purposes.
While everyone in the industry can certainly aim for the millions, FF is one of the few WW JRPG IP's that has the precedent of selling millions of copies hence why the story team has a lot of pressure under their belt imo.
What I meant about my statement was due to how diverse the FF fanbase, it was amusing to see how a few people in the FF team attempt to create a story that could sell in the millions and reach the legacy left behind by its predecessors.
tl;dr: One of the few long lasting jrpg megabosses in terms of sales and popularity. Many other series don't have the history and popularity as well the amount of units sold that FF has. So there's more pressure for this series to sell in the millions than most other series in the medium because of the precedents.
legacyzero
Banned
I did get a lot more enjoyment out of XIII-2. Story was still bat-shit, but overall It was ok. Still couldn't finish it, though.
Yep. I mean, some things felt tacked on in gameplay and made it a little incoherent, but at least it was fun.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I see. Thank you for the explanation.
Honestly, I think XIII's greatest blunder, story-telling-wise, is the failure to create admiration towards most of its characters. Likable cast, or at least cast you are happy to root for, could save even the most trite JRPG plot.
antisoulless
Banned
I will play the game with trainers.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I always defend Hope as being one of the best characters of XIII. His character development is actually there unlike other characters, and his hatred against Snow is totally reasonable, he's a teen which world was turn upside down, his mother was killed because Snow was playing the hero and letting a civilian fight on his stupid pointless war. He needs to place that grief and anger on someone and that someone is Snow, which certainly his idiotic actions were the main cause of Hope's mother death.
Also the chemestry with Lightning is the best one on the game. Lightning almost looks like a proper character in the chapters she's with Hope.
Also the chemestry with Lightning is the best one on the game. Lightning almost looks like a proper character in the chapters she's with Hope.
And he got better over the course of the game.
That's what I don't get, this fanbase cries when we get characters like crapilation cloud, dissidia Terra and when we get non-whiny characters like Snow, Zidane they still cry.
Just ignore the dudes here and try out it out for yourself.
In what way is he stupid? explanations often help
I've platinumed all three games on ps3 so I'll do the same.
13 story would have been fine if not for self-defeating meandering and lack of direction.
13-2 story is actually pretty good!
LR story is... well, it's borderline experimental, much like the game.
Saying all that I am overlooking the fact that in each case they're overwritten mad poorly presented narratives. If you can look past Watanabe's god-awful line-to-line writing skills (although translators tried, they really did) you might derive some sort of enjoyment out of it.
I mean, there's some interesting ideas there! And characters have arcs! They really do! Personally the story and the writing in X dilogy annoys me a bit more, but that's just me.
13-2 story is actually pretty good!
LR story is... well, it's borderline experimental, much like the game.
Saying all that I am overlooking the fact that in each case they're overwritten mad poorly presented narratives. If you can look past Watanabe's god-awful line-to-line writing skills (although translators tried, they really did) you might derive some sort of enjoyment out of it.
I mean, there's some interesting ideas there! And characters have arcs! They really do! Personally the story and the writing in X dilogy annoys me a bit more, but that's just me.
Tizoc
Member
Poor translation? Nah FF13's localization is good. It's just very weak and leaves so much to be desired.
FF13 is the weakest game in the FF series, not the best way to get into the series, especially when this game all boils down to battles, battles, battles.
threelights
Member
From what I'm hearing here, Hope seems scarily similar to Ken from Persona 3.
Hahah, I will =P
since I'll be going in expecting nothing more than a battle system I think I'll enjoy it more than the rest of the people here.
Interesting, XIII has to be one of the most divisive games out there, I don't remember the last game where opinions varied so much. I wonder what it'll be like for me.. hmm..
EDIT: @Tizoc, good, if it's at the same level as the PSP games SE put out here then it'll be fine.
Also, it's not my first FF, I've played a bunch of them already.
Hahah, I will =P
since I'll be going in expecting nothing more than a battle system I think I'll enjoy it more than the rest of the people here.
Interesting, XIII has to be one of the most divisive games out there, I don't remember the last game where opinions varied so much. I wonder what it'll be like for me.. hmm..
EDIT: @Tizoc, good, if it's at the same level as the PSP games SE put out here then it'll be fine.
Also, it's not my first FF, I've played a bunch of them already.
Oh, I wasn't talking about any character in particular.
I just mean in general. Some person on the last page used this as a point/argument/defense.
It's not a very good one. You're going to have to expand on what you mean by the word deconstruction a bit more as it, by itself, does not mean all that much.
Pretty much agree with this. One of the reasons I liked XIII-2's general plot/characters were that Serah was a lot more relatable, Noel was the better "hero" and it was easy to understand what drove Caius, which was a struggle for me with Galenth Dysley.
Tizoc
Member
I think you'll like the combat system at least.
Mind you the reason I use the term 'battles, battles, battles' is because of the 2 times I replayed the game skipping cutscenes to speed through the game. All I did was fight monsters and level up my characters, there's nothing else to do in this game and the exploration isn't that rewarding...
Basically
Snow a wannabe hero. He carries the heroic traits needed but often failed at doing anything close to heroic. It's only after his ordeal with Hope and Barthandelus' obvious lie does he reshape into an actual hero.
compare his tone from
first 30 mins or so of the game(He's freakin crazy)
with mid game(He's motivated by Cid's strength)
and end game(He's rightfully determined now)
Snow is nothing like Zidane. Mentioning those two names in the same breath is an insult to Zidane, who as I know is a very liked character to the fan base. I know people have complained about his image, but his actual personality, people like that.
Snow has no redeemable traits outside of wanting to be "the man", and even then he only comes off as a plastic hero at best. That's the whole way through at least the first two games (haven't played LR), not just the beginning like you say. At least in my opinion.
So when he failed at that in a lot of peoples eyes, his character didn't have much to fail back on. Looking at Zidane, he had great banter with a large portion of the cast. Making Steiner look like an idiot a lot of time. Competing against Freya in that beast hunt. Helping Vivi through that rough patch during The village of Madain Sari part of the game. And the obvious connection with dagger... Snow has none of that in his character, he just seems very shallow in comparison.
1st Bold- Whatever,
2nd Bold- Go check out the extra materials before making claims such as that.
Third Bold- You're obviously looking at the big picture instead of the small one.
I wasn't completely comparing the two. They're similar because due to their optimistic personalities and nice guy attitudes.
Extra materials? That's like when people say "the game gets good after 20 hours."
Unlike that opinion, Snow's development is a fact.
These are the "extra materials"
Fragments_Before
Fragments_After
Angelus Errare
Banned
God this x9999
But his development being GOOD isn't a fact.
We're discussing opinions here, I don't see what the problem is. Those "fragments" are useless to me because it isn't going to change what I already experienced in the game.
Done.
But his development being GOOD isn't a fact.
We're discussing opinions here, I don't see what the problem is. Those "fragments" are useless to me because it isn't going to change what I already experienced in the game.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Didn't the steam client have screenshots? Though it was probably the same as PS3. In fact, I doubt anything about the game changed at all. They didn't improve anything; they just (back)ported it to the PC. The recommended settings for the game are pretty low.
those are totally ps3 shots. and i don't think it's a back port, considering original development was on PC. they merely finished it, i guess