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[Ishida]

It's almost like the car and roadtrip angle has been a big focus of the marketing.

And? The car is there, and it works. So what's the problem?

 

[yami4ct]

Maybe he shoulda made the driving better then.

The driving in this game sounds flawed from a conceptual level. Like, I understand that letting someone freely control the car is at odds with the road trip mentality they're trying to get across in that game, given how people drive video game cars. I don't think the right solution is to make the car control badly, though. That doesn't fix anything. Either make the road trip sections non-playable and design the areas around not having the car or let people control it and suffer the cognitive dissonance.

Hopefully this issue won't be that big of a deal at scale, but it's definitely a thing that's worth bringing up.

 

[notaskwid]

Just given the premise of the game there will undoubtedly be at least a few sections where you're required to travel by car. If it was so optional as to the point of being completely ignorable, they wouldn't have bothered making it a front and center feature of the game.

I really doubt there will be an instance in the game where you'll absolutely have to drive it yourself.

 

[Ran rp]

the car having shite controls is a big deal. it's basically a main character from the way they market it. chocobos are a sidequest locked behind a boss battle, many people might not even bother. unless there are hundreds of lines of interesting dialogue to take up the slow ass car rides across the whole world, i could see that being a major negative for people.

It's kind of insane. The world is massive and they make the star transportation method painfully slow and unintuitive.

Maybe the car gets speed upgrades later in the game? Idk mayne.

 

[Mifec]

How would you do it with the objective being "not allowing players to roam of road and ramming against monsters and shit"? There is a car, but this isn't GTA, Just Cause or wtv.

Make it go faster, not make it kick you out when you're in the proximity of an enemy, make you bounce off road fences and have Ignis freak out. Not letting you go offroad like they already do but not making it a chore to actually use it.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Oversimplifying is fun!

.

 

[Supermanisdead]

And? The car is there, and it works. So what's the problem?

the implementation is boring. people played it in the duscae region during this small slice and are saying its boring already. imagine a whole open world game with this slow ass car.

 

[Maintenance]

Maybe the car gets speed upgrades later in the game? Idk mayne.

The airship mod is basically that I think. But that's very late game, iirc?

the implementation is boring. people played it in the duscae region during this small slice and are saying its boring already. imagine a whole open world game with this slow ass car.

"It works, stop complaining!"

 

[BocoDragon]

They should have made the car a train, because I guess it gave people silly expectations.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

How would you do it with the objective being "not allowing players to roam of road and ramming against monsters and shit"? There is a car, but this isn't GTA, Just Cause or wtv.

Collision damage so that it's not viable (read: expensive to fix) to go around ramming shit?

And? The car is there, and it works. So what's the problem?

What about it "works?"

Since you know, it's not actually even driving.

 

[WickedLaharl]

If it's a late game upgrade it almost doesn't matter. People will be spending the vast majority of their time driving the car instead of flying it.

I think calling it driving is a bit too generous.

 

[chozen]

Making a gameplay mechanic shit on behalf of some weirdo who have been waiting for 10 years and wait to drive slow sounds like a dumbass idea.

Wew there man, cool it. If anything is going off rails, it's these XV threads lmao.

"FFXIII sucks, it's linear!"

Fast forward to FFXV

"FFXV sucks, it's open world!"

*dead*

^ YUP in a nutshell.

 

[Ray Down]

The airship mod is basically that I think. But that's very late game, iirc?

Nah tabata has said there are other mods to the Regalia and I think hinted at something after the airship mod.

 

[Rising_Hei]

"FFXIII sucks, it's linear!"

Fast forward to FFXV

"FFXV sucks, it's open world!"

*dead*

It's been always like that since FFVIII times, it's only getting worse since internet is so mainstream tho, people just can't enjoy anything or be happy about anything.

"FFXII sucks we want a linear game where you can't ever get lost with plenty of cutscenes and ATB"

I'm happy that, wathever people say, i'll be able to enjoy it despite the flaws i'll objetively find.

 

[Squire]

It's exactly what I want, I'd rather not be waypointing everywhere. Sorry, I'm not trying to rush through this after waiting 10 years.

SE's trying to break even though. It's their fight to lose. *shrug*

And? The car is there, and it works. So what's the problem?

That it's shitty.

I mean, really? "It works, so it's fine?" The goal posts aren't even moving now, they're warping like Noctis.

I really doubt there will be an instance in the game where you'll absolutely have to drive it yourself.

Perhaps o wasn't clear. Whether it's you "driving" or the AI is irrelevant to the point, of the car's acceleration is very limited. A slow drive is a slow drive.

 

[Maintenance]

They should have made the car a train, because I guess it gave people silly expectations.

All aboard the hype train.

Oops.

Nah tabata has said there are other mods to the Regalia and I think hinted at something after the airship mod.

Something after? That's interesting, can't imagine something more useful than an airship. Maybe it will turn into a whale and we'll fly to the moon.

 

[Supermanisdead]

i mean, there's a huge difference between being able to brake, speed up and turn on your own and going off road and running over a behemoth. the car just seems like a really long loading screen as it is

 

[benzy]

How would you do it with the objective being "not allowing players to roam of road and ramming against monsters and shit"? There is a car, but this isn't GTA, Just Cause or wtv.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCZx4V9IT8

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

As long as fast travel isn't something you need to unlock for every major town, I can live with it. Having a slow driving car in a video game reminds me of people who drive below speed limit on the freeway passing lane.

I find the Disregarding of criticism sad and childish. Granted I don't think everyone criticizing the game is hoping for this game to be good, plugging your ears and going lalalala doesn't help either.

Edit: Falk has a nice post regarding the criticisms.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

i mean, there's a huge difference between being able to brake, speed up and turn on your own and going off road and running over a behemoth. the car just seems like a really long loading screen as it is

I'm honestly not sure why going off road and running into enemies is being presented as an issue.

The central conceit of the opening is paying to get your car fixed. Get some kind of collision damage for hitting enemies and make it expensive to fix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCZx4V9IT8

Doesn't need to be that sophisticated obviously, but yeah.

 

[yami4ct]

Collision damage so that it's not viable (read: expensive to fix) to go around ramming shit?

Just out of curiosity, why do they need to simulate car damage? Why not just let players ram into shit, keep going and just not deal with it if that's a more fun way to control? It's not like the game is 100% realistic anyway.

 

[Falk]

It's kind of insane. The world is massive and they make the star transportation method painfully slow and unintuitive.

Maybe the car gets speed upgrades later in the game? Idk mayne.

Right now I'm making a mental checklist of things that probably could break if you let the car free-roam

- How does it interact with monsters?
- Clipping problems out the wazoo against all kinds of terrain
- What happens when you drive off a cliff? Or in any other situation where the car is by all conceivable trains of thoughts 'stuck', how does it magically get back on the road?
- If there are triggers on the map related to quests, what happens if you drive over them in a car? What happens if you drive up to the bird in that 50min preview in the car and ram it full on?

I feel like considering that the car itself is a complex beast, what with all the triggered banter going from location to location, (presumably) choreographed scenic modes, etc, that allowing free roam would have broken a lot of things, or at least required an order of magnitude of effort to deal with every possible use-case, which might or might not have required conscious terrain design to prevent the car from going where it could potentially break any/every single instance of quests that require the party to be on foot (like in my last bullet point)

If anything, as a travel tool, it feels more like an implementation of e.g. flight paths in WoW, with Chocobos being mounts. With banter. And a radio.

Whether marketing conveyed realistic expectations properly over the years the game was shown with a focus on the car (i.e. TGS 2014), I'm not sure I could opine either way, but those are my thoughts.

I do understand its signifcance as a narrative device though, especially considering that a car is... well... kinda central to a story that's essentially a road trip.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Just out of curiosity, why do they need to simulate car damage? Why not just let players ram into shit, keep going and just not deal with it if that's a more fun way to control? It's not like the game is 100% realistic anyway.

Sure. Maybe have collision damage for shit you're trying to ram, (both car and object being rammed) or just dont let the car deal damage.

It's like whatever man. Whatever the case, an on-rails car is a shitty solution for a game being marketed around a freaking roadtrip.

 

[Maintenance]

Everyone talking about ramming stuff with the car, what happens if you ram stuff with the chocobo?

I mean, looking at this:

- How does it interact with monsters?
- Clipping problems out the wazoo against all kinds of terrain
- What happens when you drive off a cliff? Or in any other situation where the car is by all conceivable trains of thoughts 'stuck', how does it magically get back on the road?
- If there are triggers on the map related to quests, what happens if you drive over them in a car? What happens if you drive up to the bird in that 50min preview in the car and ram it full on?

Points 1, 3 and 4 would also happen with the chocobo.

 

[JBwB]

Jesus, the negativity. It's palpable.

Personally I was also a little disappointed to hear the car was on rails. The chocobos easily make up for that though as they have great mobility.

 

[Ray Down]

As long as fast travel isn't something you need to unlock for every major town, I can live with it. Having a slow driving car in a video game reminds me of people who drive below speed limit on the freeway passing lane.

I find the Disregarding of criticism sad and childish. Granted I don't think everyone criticizing the game is hoping for this game to be good, plugging your ears and going lalalala doesn't help either.

Fast Travel I doubt is blocked behind anything as long as you set up camp some place before. Don't know what this means for hotels and such.

There's a needs balance of not being overly cynical and over childish or over blind about a game.

Had to block enough users on both sides in other threads and in XV threads.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Right now I'm making a mental checklist of things that probably could break if you let the car free-roam

- How does it interact with monsters?
- Clipping problems out the wazoo against all kinds of terrain
- What happens when you drive off a cliff? Or in any other situation where the car is by all conceivable trains of thoughts 'stuck', how does it magically get back on the road?
- If there are triggers on the map related to quests, what happens if you drive over them in a car? What happens if you drive up to the bird in that 50min preview in the car and ram it full on?

Why wouldn't these problems apply to Chocobos? And wouldn't they have already been fixed for that traversal?

 

[Squire]

I don't even think the issue is the car being on rails, so much as how rigid that seems to be here. From impressions here it sounds like you're just not afforded a degree of control that's satisfying and that is the issue, more specifically.

 

[Falk]

Points 1, 3 and 4 would also happen with the chocobo.

1 - Chocobo has a kick animation!

3 - Come on, now, a bird that can turn on the spot and jump, is obviously going to be a lot more agile than a car.

4 - You're right.

I don't even think the issue is the car being on rails, so much as how rigid that seems to be here. From impressions here it sounds like you're just not afforded a degree of control that's satisfying and that is the issue, more specifically.

Right, if there's a manual driving mode, expectations are that you should be able to do a lot more than an auto mode.

 

[yami4ct]

I do understand its signifcance as a narrative device though, especially considering that a car is... well... kinda central to a story that's essentially a road trip.

I agree with pretty much all of your post and I understand how they would've landed on this solution, but it also goes back to the fact I think the car is conceptually flawed in that case. If it's something that's needed for narrative reasons, but isn't fun to play around with, either try and make it fun or put it in the the non-playable segments and design around not having it.

Is this going to be a major issue over the scale of the game? Honestly, I don't think so as the game does seem to offer enough travel options that you can easily avoid it if it sucks. Like most things FFXV, we won't really know until it hits. As it stands, I think it's a fair place to have critical discussion.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm honestly not sure why going off road and running into enemies is being presented as an issue.

The central conceit of the opening is paying to get your car fixed. Get some kind of collision damage for hitting enemies and make it expensive to fix.

A game where you have a free roaming car that will crash into enemies and your car is busted all the time? That sounds "fun".

Enabling car control would reduce your time on foot in the field and remove the "RPG" from the game. That's not to say there couldn't be a jRPG design that has a free roaming car, but it would be a completely rebalanced game that would probably remove a lot of the FF from the title. It wouldn't be this game, anyway.

People are getting twisted over the fact that it looks like GTA. It's a world switching mechanic that lets you view the scenery. Its an airship in FFXIV. It's the cable car to the Gold Saucer. It's the train to Dollet. It's not something you can and should switch to free-range mode just because you think it looks that way.

 

[Ishida]

the implementation is boring. people played it in the duscae region during this small slice and are saying its boring already. imagine a whole open world game with this slow ass car.

The car is not the only way of transportation.

Also, many other people found the car to be good.

What about it "works?"

Since you know, it's not actually even driving.

It takes you from one place to the next, no? It works.

 

[Maintenance]

1 - Chocobo has a kick animation!

3 - Come on, now, a bird that can turn on the spot and jump, is obviously going to be a lot more agile than a car.

4 - You're right.

1 - Now we're talking, that's very cool.

3 - Yes, I agree with you. But the falling of a cliff thing? Unless they allow it to fly for a little bit it would need the same attention.

---

I wouldn't mind if they locked the car to the road only, but let me drive goddamnit.

 

[benzy]

You don't have to go off-road, they could provide safety guard rails like in every open world racing game that doesn't let you go off-road , Forza Horizon 1, Need For Speed Most Wanted. They're basically already doing this from all of the footage.

And the game already has damage modeling for the Regalia so they could just make it break down if you ram into too many cars or barriers to dissuade users from driving like a maniac.

 

[James Scott]

Lmao, ain't this the truth. This game is probably the most feedback edited game in history and people will still be upset at it. As they say, "damned if you do, damned if you dont"

I find it a bit odd that they wanted feedback to make the game as good as possible and to appeal to as many people as possible but they locked the ability to try the demo and share your thoughts to people willing to spend $60 on a remastered PSP game that they were likely going to buy the new game no matter what.
Maybe they could've gotten better feedback if they didn't just ask final fantasy fans

 

[orthodoxy1095]

A game where you have a free roaming car that will crash into enemies and your car is busted all the time? That sounds "fun".

Enabling car control would reduce your time on foot in the field and remove the "RPG" from the game. That's not to say there couldn't be a jRPG design that has a free roaming car, but it would be a completely rebalanced game that would probably remove a lot of the FF from the title. It wouldn't be this game, anyway.

People are getting twisted over the fact that it looks like GTA. It's a world switching mechanic that lets you view the scenery. Its an airship in FFXIV. It's the cable car to the Gold Saucer. It's the train to Dollet. It's not something you can and should switch to free-range mode just because you think it looks that way.

Lesson learned quick: don't ram into shit and drive carefully if you decide to go off-road.

I mean I could say the same about the car itself. Giving me no control and basically my roadtrip adventure autopilot? That sounds "fun."

You don't have to go off-road, they could provide safety guard rails like in every open world racing game that doesn't let you go off-road , Forza Horizon 1, Need For Speed Most Wanted. They're basically already doing this from all of the footage.

And the game already has damage modeling for the Regalia so they could just make it break down if you ram into too many cars or barriers to dissuade users from driving like a maniac.

Exactly.

Honestly I never really considers going off-road much, but I thought that I would have quite a bit more degree of control over the vehicle while on actual roads.

 

[Falk]

3 - Yes, I agree with you. But the falling of a cliff thing? Unless they allow it to fly for a little bit it would need the same attention.

I think what I also meant to say in the vs. chocobo comparison is - let's just say you mess up so bad that your chocobo dies (I don't even know if this is possible! Hypothetically in-universe logic though) you could get another chocobo. Or, you lose sight of it for whatever terrain-related reason and it's completely off-screen, you could at least be in that area of suspension-of-disbelief where if the chocobo showed up again it's at least possible, because, well, it's a bird.

If you wreck Obama's 1-of-a-kind presidential car, Cindy isn't going to magically be show up at the next stop with another.

 

[Maintenance]

I think what I also meant to say in the vs. chocobo comparison is - let's just say you mess up so bad that your chocobo dies (I don't even know if this is possible! Hypothetically in-universe logic though) you could get another chocobo. Or, you lose sight of it for whatever terrain-related reason and it's completely off-screen, you could at least be in that area of suspension-of-disbelief where if the chocobo showed up again it's at least possible, because, well, it's a bird.

If you wreck Obama's 1-of-a-kind presidential car, Cindy isn't going to magically be show up at the next stop with another.

Oh I get it know. Ok, you're right.

 

[jackdoe]

The chocobo is the equivalent of a horse in something like Witcher 3, so I'd imagine it would behave much the same way (or at least I hope so).

As for the car, I understand why they did it the way they did. Realistically speaking, you wouldn't drive your car on the opposite side of the street or drive your rear wheel (or front wheel) car off-road. They're not trying to go for the GTA experience here.

 

[Bladenic]

I haven't watched complete footage of the game in forever due to wanting to experience it for myself. The car impressions though... Yikes. It sounds fucking awful. Honestly that's something they should've demoed instead of the useless Platinum demo. If it's really as bad as it sounds, did they even play/focus test that shit? I mean, if you're trying to sell a road trip aspect as a large part of the game, maybe make that part, you know, fun. Hell, not even fun, just not a huge bore and chore. And if you can indeed just use Chocobos, then what even is the point of the car?

I'll stop now. Think I'll avoid impressions till release since I'll get the game day 1 regardless.

 

[chozen]

A game where you have a free roaming car that will crash into enemies and your car is busted all the time? That sounds "fun".

Enabling car control would reduce your time on foot in the field and remove the "RPG" from the game. That's not to say there couldn't be a jRPG design that has a free roaming car, but it would be a completely rebalanced game that would probably remove a lot of the FF from the title. It wouldn't be this game, anyway.

People are getting twisted over the fact that it looks like GTA. It's a world switching mechanic that lets you view the scenery. Its an airship in FFXIV. It's the cable car to the Gold Saucer. It's the train to Dollet. It's not something you can and should switch to free-range mode just because you think it looks that way.

The chocobo is the equivalent of a horse in something like Witcher 3, so I'd imagine it would behave much the same way (or at least I hope so).

As for the car, I understand why they did it the way they did. Realistically speaking, you wouldn't drive your car on the opposite side of the street or drive your rear wheel (or front wheel) car off-road. They're not trying to go for the GTA experience here.

THANK YOU.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

It takes you from one place to the next, no? It works.

That's a pretty laughably reductionist way to view a set of car mechanics. So if they add an auto-walk where Noctis just walked from battle to battle and from point of interest to point of interest in the open world would that be okay? Because that's taking you from one place to the next, no? It just works.

i.e.: "It works but it doesn't allow you to actually control any aspect of the experience that you'd expect to control."

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with these car complaints. I guess I always assumed it was mostly meant to be a really beautiful way to fast travel, take in the sights, and spend some time with the four characters casually interacting. I never expected to do much more than manually control the speed.

 

[The Last One]

They have to make the driving feels good, hope they improve it. But I don't think they need to let you go off-road, if we could why we would use Chocobos then?

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Fast Travel I doubt is blocked behind anything as long as you set up camp some place before. Don't know what this means for hotels and such.

There's a needs balance of not being overly cynical and over childish or over blind about a game.

Had to block enough users on both sides in other threads and in XV threads.

So are camps predetermined areas like outposts or something?

It would be nice if people were a bit more open minded and less childish. I feel like I need to ignore a few people as well. I'm not the most mature person and I tend to cross the line a few times, but I try to see things both ways.

Edit: Thanks for the reply

 

[Maintenance]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with these car complaints. I guess I always assumed it was mostly meant to be a really beautiful way to fast travel, take in the sights, and spend some time with the four characters casually interacting. I never expected to do much more than manually control the speed.

Don't know man, I'm not asking for Carmageddon. Just being able to drive the car within the road, with my own hands steering it.

This car is just like what Bethesda did with the dragon riding in the Skyrim DLC, it was pointless. IIRC if they did not patch it you could just ride around in circles and use it to fast travel.

 

[wmlk]

Thinking about it, I don't see it being much of a problem at all to most people. I think they'll recognize the advantage of having a Chocobo off-road far outweighs the hypothetical where a car can drive off road. The Chocobo can fight, turn on a dime, jump over obstacles, and reach areas that you couldn't reach otherwise.

I haven't driven the car, and my thoughts on it could change. Still, I never considered any scenario where I would drive the car other than races if they're implemented.

 

[oimori]

Every single FFXV thread has its own argument.

IMO it is natural to feel "I want to drive the car! at will!" when we're given cars in games.
However, enabling free driving in the field where a lot of life exist means it will become mature rated game cuz they have to think about run over.
So they restricted car in the road, and it is naturally stuck on the road.

The problems about car for me is a feeling of control I think. It lack fluidity, good engine exhaust and responsibility in the footage and Platinum Demo. The system won't change so devs can and must polish its feeling.

 

[Ishida]

That's a pretty laughably reductionist way to view a set of car mechanics. So if they add an auto-walk where Noctis just walked from battle to battle and from point of interest to point of interest in the open world would that be okay? Because that's taking you from one place to the next, no? It just works.

i.e.: "It works but it doesn't allow you to actually control any aspect of the experience that you'd expect to control."

You are comparing the car to the game's main character, which is ridiculous. The car works perfectly. What's the purpose of having full control? Just crashing it on the barriers and against other cars? Is that what you truly want?

You are drowning in glass of water here.

 

[Ray Down]

So are camps predetermined areas like outposts or something?

It would be nice if people were a bit more open minded and less childish. I feel like I need to ignore a few people as well. I'm not the most mature person and I tend to cross the line a few times, but I try to see things both ways.

Basically yes, we don't know if fast traveling to camps is the way. Maybe to more major towns/areas you can.

Anything that can say you a headache though scanning threads go ahead. I know I've done it in XV and other threads.