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[Ran rp]

Right now I'm making a mental checklist of things that probably could break if you let the car free-roam

- How does it interact with monsters?
- Clipping problems out the wazoo against all kinds of terrain
- What happens when you drive off a cliff? Or in any other situation where the car is by all conceivable trains of thoughts 'stuck', how does it magically get back on the road?
- If there are triggers on the map related to quests, what happens if you drive over them in a car? What happens if you drive up to the bird in that 50min preview in the car and ram it full on?

I feel like considering that the car itself is a complex beast, what with all the triggered banter going from location to location, (presumably) choreographed scenic modes, etc, that allowing free roam would have broken a lot of things, or at least required an order of magnitude of effort to deal with every possible use-case, which might or might not have required conscious terrain design to prevent the car from going where it could potentially break any/every single instance of quests that require the party to be on foot (like in my last bullet point)

If anything, as a travel tool, it feels more like an implementation of e.g. flight paths in WoW, with Chocobos being mounts. With banter. And a radio.

Whether marketing conveyed realistic expectations properly over the years the game was shown with a focus on the car (i.e. TGS 2014), I'm not sure I could opine either way, but those are my thoughts.

I do understand its signifcance as a narrative device though, especially considering that a car is... well... kinda central to a story that's essentially a road trip.

I don't even care about off-road driving. I wasn't going to bother with it because it always seemed like a bad idea. I was content with just driving back and forth. What's insane to me is that the game literally babysits you. Until you get the flying upgrade, you don't have the freedom to do anything but accelerate slowly. Edit: and nudge left or right!

 

[notaskwid]

I mean, do people want to go around in cities running over people and cars? Because that's what would happen with car control, I don't think it goes with what the game is going for.

 

[Ishida]

I mean, do people want to go around in cities running over people and cars? Because that's what would happen with car control, I don't think it goes with what the game is going for.

People want Final Fantasy: Vice City apparently.

 

[Maintenance]

I mean, do people want to go around in cities running over people and cars? Because that's what would happen with car control, I don't think it goes with what the game is going for.

You know that there are games with cars / driving that you can't hit pedestrians even if you tried, right? They dodge 100% of the time.

 

[Falk]

That's a pretty laughably reductionist way to view a set of car mechanics. So if they add an auto-walk where Noctis just walked from battle to battle and from point of interest to point of interest in the open world would that be okay? Because that's taking you from one place to the next, no? It just works.

I think going back to the comparison of WoW flight paths is apt.

Like, sure, you could just fast-travel instead with hearthstones, warlock summons, mage portals, what-have-you, but in the end in FFXV's case that misses the point of the journey. It's also a little bit of immersion (yeh, I used the word) since it helps convey the scale of the world, the physical presence of the different locations, etc.

Doesn't mean that WoW should be automated outside of flight paths.

 

[Mik317]

Its funny how people have latched onto any negative they can find and blow it up.

the car stuff sounds rough, mind you...but lets wait and see how it progresses before losing our shit.

In a thread full of positive previews (which TBF are always positive), it is always funny to see the negative one get more press....

the review thread is going to suck hard

 

[Bladenic]

My issues stem from that post that detailed that even parking/getting out of the car is a chore, and that you can't even check the quest log while driving/riding around. Shit like that is mind boggling.

Still, it's early. Maybe I won't even mind the car in the game once I actually play it. Maybe there will be upgrades to make it go faster. Time will tell.

 

[Nerokis]

I don't even think the issue is the car being on rails, so much as how rigid that seems to be here. From impressions here it sounds like you're just not afforded a degree of control that's satisfying and that is the issue, more specifically.

Yep. There are good reasons not to allow free roam driving, and the car being an "alright, back on the road and moving forward" thing as opposed to an exploration thing makes sense. In fact, I like that. It nails down the distinction between being on the road and being off in the wilderness, and that suits the road trip feeling of the game just fine.

Of course, though, the car shouldn't be a chore to drive. I don't think this is a game breaking issue by any means, but yeah, it would be a shame. I wouldn't mind at all for the car to self-correct if you begin veering off the road, but you should have the opportunity to drive poorly.

 

[sappyday]

I'm honestly ok with the way the car works. I'm most likely gonna have it on auto mode anyways and just chill back. When exploring I'll mainly be walking cause I just enjoy watching the animations in work.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Didn't Tabata himself say the game isn't really an "Open world" type game? Like you can't really explore till later? I swear I read an interview along those lines.

The car sounds like it's just there to get you from point A to point B. Linear yes, but allows for the scripted banter and what not. It goes against every "open world" game design paradigm of "go wherever you want without restrictions". Then again, let's look at the average FF game.

If you think about it, most FF games, specifically from the original to FFIX, had an over-world map. The party was more or less destined to go from A to B to progress the story, with some extra places to explore, off the beaten path. It's not till the around 60-75% through most games that you gain access to an Airship or vehicle that can travel all over the world, to discover more hidden side quests, revisit old locations, etc etc. Sure you will get the occasional buggy or boat, but the Airship is the quintessential symbol of exploration in Final Fantasy games. If you can't freely explore the world in the Airship mode in FFXV, they have truly messed up.

While it sucks that the car is on rails, it kinda gives an older FF vibe where you really don't get full map freedom till later in the game via a traditional Airship. If you are looking for a modern open world game, this isn't it.

 

[oimori]

I admit that if you can Kamikaze against Adamantoise with the car and four bros, that will be GOAT.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with these car complaints. I guess I always assumed it was mostly meant to be a really beautiful way to fast travel, take in the sights, and spend some time with the four characters casually interacting. I never expected to do much more than manually control the speed.

That's the feeling I got as well by watching this
https://youtu.be/TbKkJKfy6Cg

While the "manual" part does come across as misleading a bit, but I never expected to be able to ram and go off-road like gta and such. Driving always came across to me a very linear affair get to point A to B.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

You are comparing the car to the game's main character, which is ridiculous. The car works perfectly. What's the purpose of having full control? Just crashing it on the barriers and against other cars? Is that what you truly want?

You are drowning in glass of water here.

The car is being presented almost as centrally to the game as the main characters themselves. It's hardly ridiculous at all.

What do you think the purpose of full control of any form of traversal is in an open world game?

I think going back to the comparison of WoW flight paths is apt.

Like, sure, you could just fast-travel instead with hearthstones, warlock summons, mage portals, what-have-you, but in the end in FFXV's case that misses the point of the journey. It's also a little bit of immersion (yeh, I used the word) since it helps convey the scale of the world, the physical presence of the different locations, etc.

Doesn't mean that WoW should be automated outside of flight paths.

I don't think there's anything immersive about a game with a roadtrip theme driving the car for me.

The mount comparison just doesn't work for me. I don't recall the mount in WoW ever being portrayed as centrally to the game as the car is in FFXV.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

I think going back to the comparison of WoW flight paths is apt.

Like, sure, you could just fast-travel instead with hearthstones, warlock summons, mage portals, what-have-you, but in the end in FFXV's case that misses the point of the journey. It's also a little bit of immersion (yeh, I used the word) since it helps convey the scale of the world, the physical presence of the different locations, etc.

Doesn't mean that WoW should be automated outside of flight paths.

Can you give us a hint if there will be enough dialogue to last 40-50 hours? Games tend to loop and repeat dialogue after a while so I can imagine it will be grating after playing 100 hours or whatever.

 

[Ishida]

The car is being presented almost as centrally to the game as the main characters themselves. It's hardly ridiculous at all.

What's the purpose of full control of any form of traversal in an open world game?

I don't think there's anything immersive about a car driving for me.

The car is, however, not the main character. You know, the main one you control? You cannot compare them at all.

Also, think for a second about what you are saying. You want full control of the car, even if it cannot go offroad. Why do you want full control for? Seriously, the only thing I could imagine for wanting full control is to be able to crash into other cars, and against the barriers. WHOO! FUN!

The roads are not huge. They are two lane roads. How much freedom do you actually NEED inside those two lanes?

 

[notaskwid]

The car is being presented almost as centrally to the game as the main characters themselves. It's hardly ridiculous at all.

What do you think the purpose of full control of any form of traversal is in an open world game?

I don't think there's anything immersive about a game with a roadtrip theme driving the car for me.

Me neither I've never stepped into a car and not actually drove it

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The car is, however, not the main character. You know, the main one you control? You cannot compare them at all.

Also, think for a second about what you are saying. You want full control of the car, even if it cannot go offroad. Why do you want full control for? Seriously, the only thing I could imagine for wanting full control is to be able to crash into other cars, and against the barriers.

The roads are not huge. They are two lane roads. How much freedom do you actually NEED inside those two lanes?

You obviously lack imagination then, but that's okay.

Obviously people want control of the car so they can control their journey. Not really a shocking idea.

 

[James Scott]

The chocobo is the equivalent of a horse in something like Witcher 3, so I'd imagine it would behave much the same way (or at least I hope so).

As for the car, I understand why they did it the way they did. Realistically speaking, you wouldn't drive your car on the opposite side of the street or drive your rear wheel (or front wheel) car off-road. They're not trying to go for the GTA experience here.

Roach? I'd sure hope not. The Witcher 3 is pretty fantastic, but Roach is the worst horse I've ever used in games

 

[Falk]

Can you give us a hint if there will be enough dialogue to last 40-50 hours? Games tend to loop and repeat dialogue after a while so I can imagine it will be grating after playing 100 hours or whatever.

Eh, I know it's been mentioned in the thread I work on the game yadda yadda, but everything I'm talking about here is from watching the 50 minute video and anything else that's specifically been revealed by Squeenix. All my own personal observations.

I'm not going to be talking about anything with regards to what I may or may not have been privy to on a professional basis.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Didn't Tabata himself say the game isn't really an "Open world" type game? Like you can't really explore till later? I swear I read an interview along those lines.

The car sounds like it's just there to get you from point A to point B. Linear yes, but allows for the scripted banter and what not. It goes against every "open world" game design paradigm of "go wherever you want without restrictions". Then again, let's look at the average FF game.

If you think about it, most FF games, specifically from the original to FFIX, had an over-world map. The party was more or less destined to go from A to B to progress the story, with some extra places to explore, off the beaten path. It's not till the around 60-75% through most games that you gain access to an Airship or vehicle that can travel all over the world, to discover more hidden side quests, revisit old locations, etc etc. Sure you will get the occasional buggy or boat, but the Airship is the quintessential symbol of exploration in Final Fantasy games. If you can't freely explore the world in the Airship mode in FFXV, they have truly messed up.

While it sucks that the car is on rails, it kinda gives an older FF vibe where you really don't get full map freedom till later in the game via a traditional Airship. If you are looking for a modern open world game, this isn't it.

The airship doesn't grant you the option to land wherever you please either if I'm not mistaken. I believe you need a road to land and to takeoff. However, certain parts are only accessible thru the airship upgrade.

 

[Ishida]

You obviously lack imagination then, but that's okay.

Oh please enlighten me, then.

Let's say you get full control of the car, but only within the roads. What exactly do you do? Donuts? Park the car in the middle of the road between the two lanes and see how many cars can you get stuck in there? Even though that's not something the protagonists would do?

You know. Fun.

 

[Falk]

You obviously lack imagination then, but that's okay.

Oh please enlighten me, then.

srsly can we stop being so antagonistic over opinions

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Oh please enlighten me, then.

Let's say you get full control of the car, but only within the roads. What exactly do you do? Donuts? Park the car in the middle of the road between the two lanes and see how many cars can you get stuck in there? Even though that's not something the protagonists would do?

You know. Fun.

Why do you insist on making up the stupidest irrelevant shit about what the function of a car is?

Here's a tip. Cars are meant to be driven. When someone gets in a car, typically they like to have complete control of their speed and direction.

srsly can we stop being so antagonistic over opinions

Fine, fine.

 

[Mik317]

Having full control would be neat...but it isn't as big of a deal as people are making it

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Eh, I know it's been mentioned in the thread I work on the game yadda yadda, but everything I'm talking about here is from watching the 50 minute video and anything else that's specifically been revealed by Squeenix. All my own personal observations.

I'm not going to be talking about anything with regards to what I may or may not have been privy to on a professional basis.

Haha, I was mostly being facetious. Didn't and wouldn't want you to do anything that would land you in trouble. I'll stop, sorry.

 

[Maintenance]

Square should've partnered with Tesla instead.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Having full control would be neat...but it isn't as big of a deal as people are making it

It's FFXV

Spoiler

Kappa

 

[Squire]

Having full control would be neat...but it isn't as big of a deal as people are making it

It's an issue that's being discussed. Not sure what it is about FFXV that has people thinking we need to see something catastrophic before criticism can be brought to the table. Whether it's a "big deal" is irrelevant.

 

[Ishida]

Why do you insist on making up the stupidest irrelevant shit about what the function of a car is?

Here's a tip. Cars are meant to be driven. When someone gets in a car, typically they like to have complete control of their speed and direction.

Again. I'm open to actually read your suggestions.

Gameplay wise, the stuff that you would be able to do with a free-controllable car would be extremely limited anywys. If the intention of the player is to not play as if Beavis and Butt-Head were driving (Crashing, etc), then basically the only remaining actions would be... To drive the car straight to your destination.

Also, while driving as Noctis you get control of the car. You can speed up. You can brake. You can choose to which road to drive when faced with an intersection.

That seems like good enough control for a car that won't go offroad.

 

[chozen]

I'm getting word about what we are getting tomorrow from someone at GC.

Huge spoilers if real.They claim to have told me,

Spoiler

We ARE getting a 10 minute look at Leviathan on PS4, the actual fight will take about 1 hour, 6 phases, (every summon fight is like this) or so but we aren't seeing the whole thing. The climbing is in (however it is automated) and water typhoon is still in, Altissia gets destroyed. He said that Shiva is obtained before Leviathan, she freezes the water against Levithan. But obviously expect the graphical downgrade from E3 2013.

 

[notaskwid]

Why do you insist on making up the stupidest irrelevant shit about what the function of a car is?

Here's a tip. Cars are meant to be driven. When someone gets in a car, typically they like to have complete control of their speed and direction.

Just curious, how upset were you when you got the driving license on Persona 4 and couldn't actually drive the bike?

 

[wmlk]

I'm getting word about what we are getting tomorrow from someone at GC.

Huge spoilers if real.They claim to have told me,

Spoiler

We ARE getting a 10 minute look at Leviathan on PS4, the actual fight will take about 1 hour, 6 phases, (every summon fight is like this) or so but we aren't seeing the whole thing. The climbing is in (however it is automated) and water typhoon is still in, Altissia gets destroyed. He said that Shiva is obtained before Leviathan, she freezes the water against Levithan and the characters can ice skate. But obviously expect the graphical downgrade from E3 2013.

Can you give a non-spoiler version of what to expect tomorrow?

 

[The Last One]

Can you give a non-spoiler version of what to expect tomorrow?

And the source too, pls =p

 

[Ishida]

I'm getting word about what we are getting tomorrow from someone at GC.

Huge spoilers if real.They claim to have told me,

Spoiler

We ARE getting a 10 minute look at Leviathan on PS4, the actual fight will take about 1 hour, 6 phases, (every summon fight is like this) or so but we aren't seeing the whole thing. The climbing is in (however it is automated) and water typhoon is still in, Altissia gets destroyed. He said that Shiva is obtained before Leviathan, she freezes the water against Levithan and the characters can ice skate. But obviously expect the graphical downgrade from E3 2013.

Holy SHIT.

In a moment of extreme weakness I actually read that.

I hope it's true!

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Here's old car gameplay

https://youtu.be/TbKkJKfy6Cg

 

[Makoto Yuki]

The airship doesn't grant you the option to land wherever you please either if I'm not mistaken. I believe you need a road to land and to takeoff. However, certain parts are only accessible thru the airship upgrade.

Depends on the game. Some some do some don't. That's why the Gold Chocobo needed to be bred in FFVII or Choco trained in FFIX. You can more or less explore everywhere the Airship can land, but you needed to invest in side quests to gain access to hidden areas.

Even if it can only land on road, being able to fly it wherever you wan't is more liberating than the on-rails nature from all the previews.

 

[Ishida]

Here's old car gameplay

https://youtu.be/TbKkJKfy6Cg

Good enough for me!

 

[Ran rp]

Square should've partnered with Tesla instead.

I'd accept this.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Depends on the game. Some some do some don't. That's why the Gold Chocobo needed to be bred in FFVII or Choco trained in FFIX. You can more or less explore everywhere the Airship can land, but you needed to invest in side quests to gain access to hidden areas.

Even if it can only land on road, being able to fly it wherever you wan't is more liberating than the on-rails nature from all the previews.

Yup, They'll probably do something when you try to crash into Atlissia I believe.

 

[Squire]

Can you give a non-spoiler version of what to expect tomorrow?

It's a fight with a summon. These happen in several phases, but we won't see the entirety of the fight.

People are going "preorder cancelled" or a step above that....they are making it a big deal.

It is just funny that every little flaw (yes I think the game is flawed; graphics, weird gameplay choices, stilted dub) is often blown up and lasered in on. They are issues...potentially game ruining for some...but it starts to feel like piling on after a while. In this thread full of positive impressions, the bulk of the discussion is focused on negative shit. Which is fine...do you... but man it takes some joy out of this.

I don't see that happening in this thread. People are arguing clearly and concisely and, a little snippyness aside, I should hope people that are just unabashedly excited for the game can take that in stride. It's just a discussion. About a video game.

 

[Mik317]

It's an issue that's being discussed. Not sure what it is about FFXV that has people thinking we need to see something catastrophic before criticism can be brought to the table. Whether it's a "big deal" is irrelevant.

People are going "preorder cancelled" or a step above that....they are making it a big deal.

It is just funny that every little flaw (yes I think the game is flawed; graphics, weird gameplay choices, stilted dub) is often blown up and lasered in on and yet every positive is just glossed over as pre-release hype (which tbf may be the case).They are issues...potentially game ruining for some...but it starts to feel like piling on after a while. In this thread full of positive impressions, the bulk of the discussion is focused on negative shit. Which is fine...do you... but man it takes some joy out of this.

 

[sappyday]

Here's old car gameplay

https://youtu.be/TbKkJKfy6Cg

Damn I do wish the game still looked like this.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

It's a fight with a summon. These happen in several phases, but we won't see the entirety of the fight.

Probably

Spoiler

Levi

if I had to guess.

Damn I do wish the game still looked like this.

PC when it comes in Q42017/Q12018

Don't know if Neo can push this.

 

[Original Man]

The car is, however, not the main character. You know, the main one you control? You cannot compare them at all.

Also, think for a second about what you are saying. You want full control of the car, even if it cannot go offroad. Why do you want full control for? Seriously, the only thing I could imagine for wanting full control is to be able to crash into other cars, and against the barriers. WHOO! FUN!

The roads are not huge. They are two lane roads. How much freedom do you actually NEED inside those two lanes?

It's a lost cause breh. It's hard to resurrect the dead lol

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Right now I'm making a mental checklist of things that probably could break if you let the car free-roam

- How does it interact with monsters?
- Clipping problems out the wazoo against all kinds of terrain
- What happens when you drive off a cliff? Or in any other situation where the car is by all conceivable trains of thoughts 'stuck', how does it magically get back on the road?
- If there are triggers on the map related to quests, what happens if you drive over them in a car? What happens if you drive up to the bird in that 50min preview in the car and ram it full on?

I feel like considering that the car itself is a complex beast, what with all the triggered banter going from location to location, (presumably) choreographed scenic modes, etc, that allowing free roam would have broken a lot of things, or at least required an order of magnitude of effort to deal with every possible use-case, which might or might not have required conscious terrain design to prevent the car from going where it could potentially break any/every single instance of quests that require the party to be on foot (like in my last bullet point)

If anything, as a travel tool, it feels more like an implementation of e.g. flight paths in WoW, with Chocobos being mounts. With banter. And a radio.

Whether marketing conveyed realistic expectations properly over the years the game was shown with a focus on the car (i.e. TGS 2014), I'm not sure I could opine either way, but those are my thoughts.

I do understand its signifcance as a narrative device though, especially considering that a car is... well... kinda central to a story that's essentially a road trip.

You've hit a lot of points I agree with. These are major problems that come up with the sacrifice of having a FF open world environment on a 1:1 scale.

Previous Final Fantasy games obviously didn't have to deal with this due to A) not being completely open world and B) having their overworld be scaled to a small size to only allow limited interaction with locations and objects.

Honestly, having the driving mechanics of something like GTAV would create too many possible scenarios that the developers would have to cover.

What happens when you drive at a body of water? What happens when you drive into a wall? Can enemy monsters attack the party in said car?

The fact is the game isn't like GTAV though. You can't just steal a car from any old place and drive it around. That doesn't fit in with the nature of the narrative, characters, or game. Final Fantasy XV is designed around a specific royal family vehicle guiding the players around the world. Tabata even said that the car was essentially the fifth party member if I remember correctly.

So let's say the car is given GTAV mechanics. If it's destroyed, does that result in a game over? Are repairs necessary to maintain the car's functions? There's too many factors to consider due to the nature of the game they're making. When you add free-roaming enemies, limited vehicles to control, and a huge open world, you have to cut back on something which ultimately can hurt the product.

 

[chozen]

So let's say the car is given GTAV mechanics. If it's destroyed, does that result in a game over? Are repairs necessary to maintain the car's functions? There's too many factors to consider due to the nature of the game they're making. When you add free-roaming enemies, limited vehicles to control, and a huge open world, you have to cut back on something which ultimately can hurt the product.

They said if you land wrong and the car gets wrecked it's game over, which makes sense.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

They said if you land wrong and the car gets wrecked it's game over, which makes sense.

What happens when you're out of the car though? What if a monster attacked and ended up destroying the car while the party was still alive? Would you still get a game over? The airship game over makes sense because the party would be killed in the crash.

 

[Falk]

What happens when you're out of the car though? What if a monster attacked and ended up destroying the car while the party was still alive? Would you still get a game over? The airship game over makes sense because the party would be killed in the crash.

gotta get someone who's at gamescom to drive around at night and park next to the iron giant (assuming you can do that at gamescom, which I am since it was in the 50min video)

FOR SCIENCE

 

[NoctisVsStar]

gotta get someone who's at gamescom to drive around at night and park next to the iron giant (assuming you can do that at gamescom, which I am since it was in the 50min video)

FOR SCIENCE

Car probably is invicible or disappears.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Having full control would be neat...but it isn't as big of a deal as people are making it

nobody's making it a big deal. its a thread about the previews and we're talking about the previews.

Oh please enlighten me, then.

Let's say you get full control of the car, but only within the roads. What exactly do you do? Donuts? Park the car in the middle of the road between the two lanes and see how many cars can you get stuck in there? Even though that's not something the protagonists would do?

You know. Fun.

i'd like to be able to pull over and stop wherever i want without having a lengthy slowdown and cut to black screen. i'd like to be able to speed up and dart through traffic. i'd like to go off on undiscovered side roads that i come across without picking a location from a menu. i'd like to be able to... you know... drive the damn car.