Support NeoGAF

[TheHater]

I don't think anyone knows for sure, but I would think the OS would have to be tested and QA-d by the time production started or even earlier.

But wasn't the OS still being worked on after E3? I remember seeing a video, not sure it it was on CNN or Gametrailers, that had an inside look at the Xbox One OS. In the video, the MS tech/programmer said they are still months away from finalizing the OS for the Xbox One.

Actually, thinking about it...This was before the Xbox 180 so the patching of the OS wouldn't have been a problem since the console was have required a always 24 hours internet checking.

Guess I answered my own question lol

 

[Bsigg12]

So let's say you have no Internet, you buy an XBO and Watch Dogs. You take it somewhere with Internet to get that day 1 download patch so you can take it home and play it offline. The following month, you decide to buy Forza and take it home, only to discover that it's not playable without you finding somewhere with Internet to patch again. Who the fuck releases a retail blu-ray of an unplayable game? So that means this game box has to say "Internet connection required" on it, right?

For the first pressing, yes. Again, their scheduling and content preparation was based on the idea that Microsoft would require every system to be connected to the internet. That has changed so late into the development of the game that it's too late to shuffle development time and get required functions on the disc. Does it suck? Well yes, but I'm not blaming Turn 10 here, Microsoft fucked them.

But wasn't the OS still being worked on after E3? I remember seeing a video, not sure it it was on CNN or Gametrailers, that had an inside look at the Xbox One OS. In the video, the MS tech/programmer said they are still months away from finalizing the OS for the Xbox One.

Actually, thinking about it...This was before the Xbox 180 so the patching of the OS wouldn't have been a problem since the console was have required a always 24 hours internet checking.

Guess I answered my own question lol

Yea they were always planning a day one update in order to give them ample time after hardware assembly and distribution to get the OS optimized and complete. I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 has something similar since it does grant extra development/optimization time.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

maybe the TV isn't near a router.


who the fuck knows what situation they're in. if it doesnt come in the box you shouldn't assume they have it

if someone is paying for xbox live then you should assume they have internet. they may as well require Forza 5 have xbox live activation. cause i mean, who the hell buys a 500 dollar xbox console and doesn't have access to xbox live?

Its 2013, someone is buying one of these consoles and has absolutely no access to the internet? That is very hard to believe. This would affect such a minute portion of the video game buying audience that it isnt even worth getting up in arms about.

This isnt the same situation where spotty internet can cause your always online system to get screwy. This is saying you 100% have no access to the internet at all and are buying a system that requires a day 1 patch.............................from the internet.

 

[itxaka]

so in 20 years, forzá 5 won't be available to play. a game that won't be preserved. great.

 

[jamesinclair]

I can't wait for the midnight release impressions.

"It's 3am and patch 12 of 17 is finishing up....we'll get you those first impressions aaaaaaaany minute now....."

 

[Paladin CL]

From what I remember the Xbox One needs 1 initial setup over intenet after the DRM were pulled out, so if this is true, why people without absolute internet conection are buying the console on day 1? all your games will be useless.

so in 20 years, forzá 5 won't be available to play. a game that won't be preserved. great.

I dont see any reason why it wont, unless in 20 years you are finally open a sealed copy of the game in a sealed console, because you only need to download the contents once and after that doesnt requiere anything else.

This was my main problem with the stupid MS DRM, i love to play old games and I keep all my consoles... and i know someday MS was going to disable the verification servers, lucky that nightmare is over.

 

[Bsigg12]

so in 20 years, forzá 5 won't be available to play. a game that won't be preserved. great.

Nah, physical discs get represses with additional content on the disc all the time.

 

[BigDug13]

For the first pressing, yes. Again, their scheduling and content preparation was based on the idea that Microsoft would require every system to be connected to the internet. That has changed so late into the development of the game that it's too late to shuffle development time and get required functions on the disc. Does it suck? Well yes, but I'm not blaming Turn 10 here, Microsoft fucked them.



Yea they were always planning a day one update in order to give them ample time after hardware assembly and distribution to get the OS optimized and complete. I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 has something similar since it does grant extra development/optimization time.

That seems weird though since the demo was so playable. Was the demo not indicative of the final product? Is the fully functional game engine with cars and tracks that was already shown and able to be played by people in demo form something different than the finished product?

It seems weird to me that they couldn't even get a functional game with missing content out, something like Driveclub PS+ edition with missing tracks and cars. The game engine is not even capable of being on the disc in "ready to play" form even though the demo of the game is playable NOW? And the system comes out in 4 months and it still cannot be done?

That makes me wonder if the entire demo was "built for E3 and similar events" like the Aliens Colonial Marines demo that had people gushing over how awesome the game looked.

 

[op_ivy]

so in 20 years, forzá 5 won't be available to play. a game that won't be preserved. great.

why wouldnt it?

 

[Gruso]

This isnt the same situation where spotty internet can cause your always online system to get screwy. This is saying you 100% have no access to the internet at all and are buying a system that requires a day 1 patch.............................from the internet.

Good point. But many people are still stuck with tethering or otherwise awful internet. No problem for registrations, but kinda ruins their day if they're buying disc games to avoid big downloads.

 

[Omni]

As long as I'm not required to download an excessive amount, I'm okay with this and will keep my preorder. Limited bandwidth is a pain in the ass.

 

[AKARASUNE]

This is a good thing.

The developers are letting us gamers know the progress on their game. Better they have content then half ass the game because of production schedules.
I'd rather have the game at launch with an update than have them push it back a month. It's a shame people don't have internet out there or can't spare a few gigs to download content.
They should only be the people complaining.

I was on 5 mbps with a 250 gb limit per month. That's slow in my opinion, and there is no reason for me to be upset at this.
I can spare a few gigabytes.

 

[Bsigg12]

That seems weird though since the demo was so playable. Was the demo not indicative of the final product? Is the fully functional game engine with cars and tracks that was already shown and able to be played by people in demo form something different than the finished product?

It seems weird to me that they couldn't even get a functional game with missing content out, something like Driveclub PS+ edition with missing tracks and cars. The game engine is not even capable of being on the disc in "ready to play" form even though the demo of the game is playable NOW? And the system comes out in 4 months and it still cannot be done?

That makes me wonder if the entire demo was "built for E3 and similar events" like the Aliens Colonial Marines demo that had people gushing over how awesome the game looked.

How often though are E3 demos just cobbled together to give a representation of the final product and not a current build? I remember Halo 2 and the New Mobassa demo being completely different from anything we played in the final game.

The PS+ version of Drive Club will actually benefit from.being digital only because they won't have to go through cert and manufacturing it will only go through cert prior to launch. Because of this, it'll always be up to date. The physical copy though will require an update however to fix balancing and performance issues they fix post going gold for manufacturing of the physical version.

Edit: ha you edited before I finished, but my first paragraph was the same thing about the Aliens disaster.

 

[Absinthian]

Forza 5 was obviously developed with the original plan to have the Xbone always online. I assume all launch games will require some type of internet connectivity.

 

[itxaka]

why wouldnt it?

can you download ninja gaiden awesome dlc? can you play any xbox original online games? now imagine forzá 5 for the original xbox :S


I hope they do a repress of the disc with everything in it as people have said above

 

[Omni]

so in 20 years, forzá 5 won't be available to play. a game that won't be preserved. great.

People are so melodramatic.

 

[ethomaz]

“We’re not making a launch game. We’re making Forza 5, at launch.”

lol just lol

I never expected this kind of explanation lol

 

[Stillmatic]

can you download ninja gaiden awesome dlc? can you play any xbox original online games? now imagine forzá 5 for the original xbox :S


I hope they do a repress of the disc with everything in it as people have said above

Once you've registered your copy downloaded the DLC, you don't have to go online again. Unless for some silly reason they phase in their initial X1 plans over the course of the gen.

 

[Anhkow]

"We’re not making a launch game. We’re making Forza 5, at launch."

 

[hokagespit]

what irks me about this whole deal. If the game was merely delayed for completion wed of got everything intended for it off bat. But now with this practice everything that is not polished and ready for this day one patch is sure to be left on the floor for pay for DLC. That's what grinds my gears about this whole thing.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

Microsoft's fuck up just keeps on giving.

Oh yeah.

 

[hooijdonk17]

 

[Rawket Lawnchair]

Last gen we needed day 1 patches.

Next gen we'll need day 1 DLCs.

 

[jfoul]

I'll wait for the eventual retail release of Forza Motorsport 5: Full Game Edition.

 

[Steelyuhas]

The same reason the PS4 is shipping with a controller that has a light you can't turn off. The included launch OS is undoubtedly already long past being final, and they have probably already been manufacturing consoles for awhile now. They aren't going to rip open the boxes with the already-assembled consoles inside and any interruption in production now would jeopardize all the logistics they have made to have consoles everywhere around the world on the launch date. So, patch on day 1 is all they can do.

lol no

 

[Liabe Brave]

That seems weird though since the demo was so playable. Was the demo not indicative of the final product? Is the fully functional game engine with cars and tracks that was already shown and able to be played by people in demo form something different than the finished product?

Actually yes, demos are different from the finished product. They are typically their own little limited-content games, which is why devs have to crunch so hard before tradeshows.

That said, the reasoning about "extra time to polish" still doesn't make sense to me. To repeat my question from last page, can anyone explain to me the logic? Greenawalt implied something like this:

1. To make launch, Forza 5 has to go into testing and certification soon.
2. Not all content is ready for testing.
3. The unfinished stuff will be held back and worked on for a while longer.
4. Then it'll be released as day one DLC.

But if the disc can't make launch unless it goes into testing now, how can the DLC make launch even though it'll go into testing later?

 

[G Rom]

Day One edition indeed !
This would confirm what some of us suspected, that the lack of new informations and medias of tracks other than Prague might be due to content being incomplete at the moment.


Edit : This will probably be like the DLC packs of FM3. There were tracks on the second disc you had to install in order to complete the game. You could still play, paint, take photos, tunes, etc in the game though so the game was playable just not content complete without those packs.

 

[Steelyuhas]

But if the disc can't make launch unless it goes into testing now, how can the DLC make launch even though it'll go into testing later?

Because dics have to be manufactured, content downloaded from Xbox Live doesn't.

 

[Nokterian]

Holy shit pay 60 euro's and get half of the game. I am laughing way to hard at this.

 

[Bsigg12]

Actually yes, demos are different from the finished product. They are typically their own little limited-content games, which is why devs have to crunch so hard before tradeshows.

That said, the reasoning about "extra time to polish" still doesn't make sense to me. To repeat my question from last page, can anyone explain to me the logic? Greenawalt implied something like this:

1. To make launch, Forza 5 has to go into testing and certification soon.
2. Not all content is ready for testing.
3. The unfinished stuff will be held back and worked on for a while longer.
4. Then it'll be released as day one DLC.

But if the disc can't make launch unless it goes into testing now, how can the DLC make launch even though it'll go into testing later?

It doesn't require manufacturing like the rest of the game does. That easily gives them ample time. Also, we don't know how Microsoft is handling DLC, cert, and updates for the Xbox One yet so it could be a shorter process to get it digitally onto the console potentially.

 

[JABEE]

Didn't you just describe every MMO ever sold on disc? It's not completely unprecedented, technically

Forza functions as a single player game. It isn't an MMO game.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

So out of the launch titles, it seems both Forza and Killer Instinct are basically online-only.

I'm just waiting for the announcement of Ryse 'Day One' required DLC, not that I'd be ever interested in buting a game that looks so shallow as that mind.

 

[Orca]

People are so melodramatic.

Wait until they find out Destiny is online-only, so it'll be 'lost forever' one day too.

 

[CLEEK]

Holy shit pay 60 euro's and get half of the game. I am laughing way to hard at this.

No, you pay €60 and get no game at all.

You just get some unusable code and assets, plus an installer that has to download the rest to make the game function.

 

[travisbickle]

Holy shit pay 60 euro's and get half of the game. I am laughing way to hard at this.

Pay 60 euro for access to the game download to play the game. People will be scratching their heads thinking that MS had removed the online-only policy!!

 

[Infernal Monkey]

I hope they at least plan on putting a big sticker on the front of the box to inform people that the game won't work without connecting to the internet to download a patch.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Because dics have to be manufactured, content downloaded from Xbox Live doesn't.

It doesn't require manufacturing like the rest of the game does. That easily gives them ample time.

D'oh! Makes total sense, I don't know why I didn't think of that. Thanks!

 

[Huggers]

It's not ideal but if it gives them 6 weeks extra time to work on the game I guess it's for the best. As long as it doesn't become a precedent.

People complaining about the complaining. After Microsoft's BULLSHIT DRM stuff and general attitude to it's consumers, is it any wonder people react this way?

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

I don't get why some people are saying "bu bu but the Xbox one was going to be always online so the 180 put turn10 in this situation" or something comparable to that. What the fuck does it matter if the xbone was gonna be always online, online once a day, or never online? None of that changes the fact that turn10 is literally developing a game that ms will certify and publish that will

1. Not work out of the box. You CANNOT put the game in your xbone and begin playing. No matter what. You can't simply disconnect from the internet and cancel the update/patch and play. Not possible.

2. Be fucking incomplete. It's not like they're providing bonus features or additional content at no cost. These are core mechanics of their own damn game that you'll have to download, for Christ's sake. Pathetic.

 

[Krilekk]

Anyone else get the feeling that this is only the first step towards a F2P/microtransaction nightmare for the Forza series? What's stopping them from adding more content going forward ... weather system for 20 bucks, new cars $2 each, new tracks $10 ... basically what Sony once had planned for Gran Turismo and what Microsoft already tested with the Forza 4 Essentials Edition (which is pretty much the same thing as what they're doing with Forza 5 except you can actually play Forza 4 E without ever being online). Well, everybody digs their own graves. They would've been much better off with a PGR 5 at launch and a Forza 5 next year.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I don't get why some people are saying "bu bu but the Xbox one was going to be always online so the 180 put turn10 in this situation" or something comparable to that. What the fuck does it matter if the xbone was gonna be always online, online once a day, or never online? None of that changes the fact that turn10 is literally developing a game that ms will certify and publish that will

1. Not work out of the box. You CANNOT put the game in your xbone and begin playing. No matter what. You can't simply disconnect from the internet and cancel the update/patch and play. Not possible.

2. Be fucking incomplete. It's not like they're providing bonus features or additional content at no cost. These are core mechanics of their own damn game that you'll have to download, for Christ's sake. Pathetic.

It gives Turn10 another 6+ weeks to work on some aspects of the game by doing this.

Really that simple.

Theoretically, that should give the gamer a level of content and polish that wouldn't be possible if they printed the entire thing on the disc.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

The outrage by some is laughable.

 

[Mascot]

Forza 5 is like your refrigerator

This quote will be printed on teeshirts if Xbone has any overheating issues.


Are MS going to increase the size of the Xbone hard drive to compensate for having a sizeable chunk of it instantly reserved to play Forza 5 properly?

 

[fabricated backlash]

Early Adopters being used as Guinea Pigs just got to a whole new level. Instead of gimped Launch Games, we've entered the territory of broken games sold on disc...

Fucking hell. One thing that I loved about Forza 3-4 was it's feature set and high level of quality across all features... but this... sheesh...

I was sad about missing out on the Forza series, but now... I don't know if I dodged a bullet there.

 

[Chobel]

It gives Turn10 another 6+ weeks to work on some aspects of the game by doing this.

Really that simple.

Theoretically, that should give the gamer a level of content and polish that wouldn't be possible if they printed the entire thing on the disc.

Why not release the digital game first, then sometime later release the physical copy of the finished game?

 

[NullPointer]

Anyone else get the feeling that this is only the first step towards a F2P/microtransaction nightmare for the Forza series?

It already is. Money for cars and then money for tokens to unlock those cars and money to put all hidden locations on the map in Horizon and money to boost popularity in Horizon.

Cars til the end of time, but no tracks.

Forza is an outstanding series with shitty monetization schemes.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

It already is. Money for cars and then money for tokens to unlock those cars and money to put all hidden locations on the map in Horizon and money to boost popularity in Horizon.

Cars til the end of time, but no tracks.

Forza is an outstanding series with shitty monetization schemes.

Well Horizon was open world, not sure how they'd sell you tracks taking that into consideration.

 

[Star Falcon]

Not really a major issue to be honest, I'll just do something else whilst the patch downloads. Standard "my rights are being violated!!!111" overreaction though.

 

[scytherage]

Microsoft, come on, this is all kinds of wrong already. What if someone bought the game and just wants to play it right away?

It's still a few months to November, there has to be a way for your people to patch everyone's consoles and games BEFORE they start selling them. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Why not release the digital game first, then sometime later release the physical copy of the finished game?

Because that would be getting the game to players later than they could.