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[mrklaw]

Interesting concept. Ship the core and download the content. The curse of being a launch title, I guess.

Also, this adds a brand new meaning to Launch Control.

I'm not against the idea of free day 1 DLC, but requiring it isn't acceptable. Basically MS are saying 'of course you can play offline' but only if you can connect online.

That's ok if you are generally connected but not always, but if you never plan to connect up to XBL then you basically can't play forza 5. I hope they have a big enough warning on the box to let people know

 

[davepoobond]

Its 2013, someone is buying one of these consoles and has absolutely no access to the internet? That is very hard to believe. This would affect such a minute portion of the video game buying audience that it isnt even worth getting up in arms about.

This isnt the same situation where spotty internet can cause your always online system to get screwy. This is saying you 100% have no access to the internet at all and are buying a system that requires a day 1 patch.............................from the internet.

"its 2013" is not an excuse for anything. it means nothing. we were supposed to have flying cars in the year 2000.

where i work people have such shitty internet they can barely get it to work. while i'm not saying gamers are as ridiculously technology-challenged as they are, the internet is at least 80% to blame for all of the troubles i have to deal with.


broadband is not as common as you like to think it is. its easy to to fart around on your 30 mbps connection all day and think everyone has the same connection as you do, but there are people who have less than 1 mbps, so they have to wait 9 hours to download a game they bought in a store.

 

[Pwn]

Post again in this thread.

This is the mutated DRM.

You don't own the whole game after all.

Years later if you want to play Forza again, and game data is no longer in your HDD, good luck trying to find if the server is still active.

 

[NoRéN]

Does ign(or whoever it was) still want to know why I'm buying a ps4 at launch?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Post again in this thread.

This is the mutated DRM.

You don't own the whole game after all.

Years later if you want to play Forza again, and game data is no longer in your HDD, good luck trying to find if the server is still active.

I can still download the co-op patch for Kameo nearly 8 years later, this isn't a problem.

 

[Walshicus]

I'm not against the idea of free day 1 DLC, but requiring it isn't acceptable. Basically MS are saying 'of course you can play offline' but only if you can connect online.

That's ok if you are generally connected but not always, but if you never plan to connect up to XBL then you basically can't play forza 5. I hope they have a big enough warning on the box to let people know

If you *never* plan to connect to the internet then you certainly shouldn't buy XB1 and you should probably consider abandoning modern gaming entirely.

Just like if you don't have an HD capable display.

 

[Mascot]

Hey Dan, here's a better solution: ditch all the shoe-horned Top Gear comedy stuff, lose car soccer and car bowling, move drifting and drag over to Horizon (where it belongs) and... Voila! You're left with a fucking motorsport racing game without any of the unnecessary gimmicky shit that is eating into your launch title deadline.

Spoiler

It's OK to include pit stops as day one DLC.

 

[Hana-Bi]

The way I read this it sounds to me like you could play F5 without the DLC. Sure he says it is required but I think he just means to play the "full" game with all cars, tracks and Drivatars.

For example there are some basic Drivatars in the retail version:

You do have to connect the game in order to get the latest Drivatars, because we need as many people training them as possible. And so rather than having just a launch-day set that was created by us

Why would you implement some basic Drivatars, if you must download the latest Drivatars? This doesn't make sense. So I would assume you can play offline right from the start.

 

[Rains]

I foresee a host of game breaking bugs this is a really bad idea

 

[mrklaw]

Hopefully this is just launch day lies. Turn 10 were reassured by MS that they could have those few extra weeks because all advises will be online. Then suddenly they weren't. They couldn't move up production any further, so they have to do a day one patch.

The mandatory nature of the patch I hope is just because of the 180 and the impact it had to turn 10's original schedule. Lets hope games released after launch do not require this (if they aren't functional they can wait a few weeks to release, whereas launch of a console is critical)

If you *never* plan to connect to the internet then you certainly shouldn't buy XB1 and you should probably consider abandoning modern gaming entirely.

Just like if you don't have an HD capable display.

Remember that bit in Jurassic park where Malcolm is talking to Sam Neill? It's not about what I have, it's what other people have.

If 30% of Xbox 360s were not connected to the Internet, then a lot of people will be buying a box they just want to put discs in and play. Maybe they aren't monetizable enough to care about, but they do exist and they are not second class citizens.

 

[Ardenyal]

Why not release the digital game first, then sometime later release the physical copy of the finished game?

Because you never buy the food first! You need that refridgerator, man.

 

[Hanmik]

I can still download the co-op patch for Kameo nearly 8 years later, this isn't a problem.

and you can also buy a new X360 put in Kameo and play the game without ever having to download anything at all... try to do the same with Forza 5..

 

[ethomaz]

Why would you implement some basic Drivatars, if you must download the latest Drivatars? This doesn't make sense. So I would assume you can play offline right from the start.

But...

"that is required content to play the game. We basically have designed the game to work with all that content no matter how late is coming in"

The downloaded content is required to play the game.

 

[p3tran]

Given my forza knowledge, and having followed that crazy man, Dan, for years, here is what I understand of this article:

Basically,
I will put this in forza 3&4 terms to make it easier to understand.

Forza 5 will be delivered in two discs like those previous forzas, but difference is that while 3&4 had the two discs inside the game box,
In forza 5 you get one in the box you will buy and second disc on the "cloud"

Like 3&4, as soon as you installed disc 1 you where ready to go, but those extra ferraris and those extra tracks where on the second disc,
that you could install anytime you wanted.

In forza 5, the "second disc" is online, so that up to he very last minute they can add stuff. It makes sense because launch game.


I think Dan makes this comment about how this downloadable data is part of the game, because in the past forza's dlc tracks did not become part of the career mode, and where basically just for doing single events.


So I would suggest that people read this article for what it really means, not wha it looks like..


That being said,
if microsoft does not allow me to psysically detach fucking kinect,
t10 can bring baby jesus as a drivatar doing miracles IRL while racing, and i still wont buy the fucking machine!

 

[Miles Quaritch]

and you can also buy a new X360 put in Kameo and play the game without ever having to download anything at all... try to do the same with Forza 5..

Sure, but that's not the implication of the post I was replying to. The suggestion was that you wouldn't be able to download the content years down the line, when evidence clear shows that is unlikely to be true.

Also, people are discounting the fact that they will eventually release a GOTY edition with all content on disc, not that that justifies this decision, but it will happen.

 

[Valnen]

Be outraged gaf, this is such a huge deal. Think of all the hassle this will cause.

I know right, I might have to do something else for a whole 5 minutes if this happens to a game I'm actually interested in. The horror!

 

[mrklaw]

I guess there is the same issue with day 1 Xbox consoles, they need a patch too. So if you are not expecting to connect online, you'd need to wait for later hardware that has the OS pre-patched.

I'm very glad I have decent broadband, I'd hate to love games but not be allowed to play them.

 

[Facism]

sounds like a glorified online registration with game content tied to it so it doesn't seem so bad.

Avoid.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Remember when devs and publishers waited until the game had gone gold before printing the discs?

Not any more! Yay!


lol

 

[travisbickle]

If you *never* plan to connect to the internet then you certainly shouldn't buy XB1 and you should probably consider abandoning modern gaming entirely.

Just like if you don't have an HD capable display.

I just feel as though these companies are making gaming for me, adult male with high income, and I should be happy, but then I think about my kid-self who saved pocket money for ever to buy a PSX ... and I feel sad.

 

[amar212]

So I would suggest that people read this article for what it really means, not what it looks like..

It means it is not a day one patch with DLC - but DLC patch on day one.

Danshlayaman.gif

 

[Valnen]

If you *never* plan to connect to the internet then you certainly shouldn't buy XB1 and you should probably consider abandoning modern gaming entirely.

Just like if you don't have an HD capable display.

Yup. If you're some kind of dinosaur that NEVER connects their consoles to the internet or doesn't have at least a monitor with HDMI, you really have no business buying a $500 next gen console.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Never in my lifetime did I think Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced Bouquet) would appear on GAF. This is a landmark moment for everyone.

 

[Chobel]

Because that would be getting the game to players later than they could.

I don't understand what you mean exactly. Maybe you mean that they have to wait for the game to download, because the XBoners need to download the game to play it whether it's digital or not, maybe not the same waiting time but they have to wait. For me that physical disk is just an accessory so just go with digital only.

 

[Knuf]

Guys, Xbone retail boxes will clearly state something like this:
"disk* contains online activation code only**, actual game must be downloaded separately***".

* once activated online, your physical disk might as well be used as a door-stopper, since it could have the same value of a broken brick
** online connection required to play offline
*** #dealwithit

 

[MvmntInGrn]

I find day one patches (and that is exactly what this is) pretty gross. I do worry about booting up these games is 15 years and not being able to download patches and DLC.

Hopefully this is just launch day lies. Turn 10 were reassured by MS that they could have those few extra weeks because all advises will be online. Then suddenly they weren't. They couldn't move up production any further, so they have to do a day one patch.

What a strange overlord Microsoft is. I would think they would be at Turn 10s beck and call to get this game tested and certified while letting them complete and polish it as much as possible. It is an important launch title for the XBO (and one of what, two first party launch titles?)

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

So if I borrow the game form a friend I can't play all of the game. What about reviewers?

 

[Steelyuhas]

I don't understand what you mean exactly. Maybe you mean that they have to wait for the game to download. because the XBoners need to download the game to play it whether it's digital or not, maybe not the same waiting time but they have to wait. For me that physical disk is just an accessory so just go with digital only.

Some people (not me) are still going to buy discs for all their games, so if you didn't release a physical version until later, those people won't be able to purchase the game until a later date (even though the content is ready, you just have to download it).

Also, this isn't relevant to my point, but I think that disc games work exactly like they do on the 360 now, aka, you are not required to install the game.

 

[M_A_C]

So if I borrow the game form a friend I can't play all of the game. What about reviewers?

yes you can

 

[eXistor]

This...sounds like something Microsoft would do. I'm not surprised. It's just games forcing you to be online, not the Xbone itself.

 

[p3tran]

It means it is not a day one patch with DLC - but DLC patch on day one.

Danshlayaman.gif

Yeap, its a "disc 2 in the clouds" thing, so that they get around two extra months to add stuff.

But of course, I suppose its stuff like more cars and tracks that will be added after the game goes gold, and not stuff like the new physics (THAT WE HAVE SEEN NONE YET!) and that calspan data etc
Because if the latter is the case, it will bring the word "funny" to a whole new level ;D (I'm sure it wont be)

Turn 10 are competent guys, I'm sure they can make it work.

Forza 5 @launch would be the best console launch ever for me, if it wasnt for the stupid kinect desicions..

 

[Pwn]

I'm afraid it's not a DLC.
DLCs are additional game contents.

NONE OF DLCS IS REQUIRED TO RUN A GAME.

And it's not a bug fix patch becasue they intentionally make it work like this.

 

[MCD]

TURN 10 are competent? Why no weather system then?

 

[patapuf]

I'm not against the idea of free day 1 DLC, but requiring it isn't acceptable. Basically MS are saying 'of course you can play offline' but only if you can connect online.

That's ok if you are generally connected but not always, but if you never plan to connect up to XBL then you basically can't play forza 5. I hope they have a big enough warning on the box to let people know

You can't use your Xbox one if you never connect it to the internet. The console itself needs a day 1 patch too.

Considering everyone who has an Xbox one has access to the internet, i don't really see the problem with this as long as it's declared on the box.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

TURN 10 are competent? Why no weather system then?

I think Night is easier to do and it seems they have headlights already so why not Turn 10? Their excuse throughout last generation was due to hardware, they have better hardware and they still did not do it.

 

[spats]

These all sound like Dan Greenwalt quotes. That man is an expert at spouting out stupid things.

 

[p3tran]

TURN 10 are competent? Why no weather system then?

Because 3 great racing games of 1280x720 60 frames fucking locked last gen,
And day 1 racing game on new hardware 1920x1080 60 frames fucking locked, at launch!

Thats why more competent than anybody else in the business: because they get their priorities straight!

I think Night is easier to do and it seems they have headlights already so why not Turn 10?

Headlights they have ready, but did they have enough crunching time on the new 1.2tf hardware so that it will be able to keep rock solid 1080@60,
while casting an extra 20-30 dynamic light sources casting lights and shadows etc?
Its not like they have unlimited hardware...

And thats why they should bring forza on pc! 8)

 

[Chobel]

Some people (not me) are still going to buy discs for all their games, so if you didn't release a physical version until later, those people won't be able to purchase the game until a later date (even though the content is ready, you just have to download it).

Also, this isn't relevant to my point, but I think that disc games work exactly like they do on the 360 now, aka, you are not required to install the game.

I may be wrong but usually the poeple who purchase physical do that because :

1. They don't want to download the game, they want to play directly from the disk
2. They keep collection of the games purchased

In the first case there's no point at all to pay for the disk.
The second case we may argue, but I think that it's better for them to just for the disk with the complete content (it will happen eventually)

 

[user_nat]

I wonder if the Xbone will support copying over DLC on USB sticks like the 360.
For those that don't want an Internet connected console (or can't).

 

[Polyphony]

I'd like to be as optimistic as some of you, but I fail to see how this day 1 content is "extra content" if the base game requires it to be playable in any form. It's not like T10 is finishing extra tracks to give away for free at launch. If last gen is any indication, you'd expect them to charge for every little bit of DLC they have.

If the download consists simply of additional content such as tracks and cars, why wouldn't the base game on disc be playable without it? Why risk creating controversy around this? Hopefully T10 focuses on shipping a playable game and let the users download whatever content is missing on disc. They should get their priorities straight indeed.

 

[patapuf]

I'd like to be as optimistic as some of you, but I fail to see how this day 1 content is "extra content" if the base game requires it to be playable in any form. It's not like T10 is finishing extra tracks to give away for free at launch. If last gen is any indication, you'd expect them to charge for every little bit of DLC they have.

If the download consists simply of additional content such as tracks and cars, why wouldn't the base game on disc be playable without it? Why risk creating controversy around this? Hopefully T10 focuses on shipping a playable game and let the users download whatever content is missing on disc. They should get their priorities straight indeed.

I'd guess they are running short on time, which is the most common reason for a day 1 patch.

Only, they are running REALLY short on time.

 

[Perkel]

Aside from bad analogies, that is good people.

Usually things like that end up being paid DLC.


edit:

Being req is a bit problematic.
I can't wait for those launch days when most of games (done that way) won't work because network is bugged or overloaded.

 

[Qassim]

I really struggle to see this as a problem for myself.

 

[p3tran]

I'd like to be as optimistic as some of you, but I fail...

If the download consists simply of additional content such as tracks and cars, why wouldn't the base game on disc be playable without it? Why risk creating controversy around this? Hopefully T10 focuses on shipping a playable game and let the users download whatever content is missing on disc. They should get their priorities straight indeed.

Actually what is in quotation does not say that game wont be playable.
The closest thing to that is "downloading will occur as you play", in that parenthesis of "dan clarified" in the article..

 

[Sweep14]

Aren't you the guy that described MS's horrific DRM policies as them "dragging people into the future"?

And where lies thé QA campaign with this kind of development processus ?

 

[sechsterangriff]

Actually what is in quotation does not say that game wont be playable.
The closest thing to that is "downloading will occur as you play", in that parenthesis of "dan clarified" in the article..

“[But] that is required content to play the game. We basically have designed the game to work with all that content no matter how late is coming in."

I think that's self-explanatory.

 

[saladine1]

So instead of two discs, it's one disc plus 'DLC'?

I can live with that but it sucks for people with shitty to no internet..

So now I see why there hasn't been any new info regarding FM5 lately.
They are busy trying to get their shit sorted. The joys of being a launch title..

 

[p3tran]

We basically have designed the game to work with all that content no matter how late is coming in."

I think that's self-explanatory.

Is it? I wrote before that in the past forzas, tracks you downloaded DID NOT become integrated into the career.
My guess is he's trying to clarifty that in f5 thats not the case any more.
Because, by translating the way you did, I can also conclude that game wont be playable untill ALL future dlc is installed. Makes sense? Didnt think so..

 

[Liamario]

So they are selling you a game that doesn't work. AWESOME!

Also, if there is no silver membership any more, is gold required to download this patch?

 

[p3tran]

So they are selling you a game that doesn't work. AWESOME!

Also, if there is no silver membership any more, is gold required to download this patch?

Hahaha
Worst case scenario, it will be available to non-paying members about 15 days later, like demos etc lololol