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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
miklonus
Member
I bought the game Friday, and I think either you, or somebody else, had been pumping me up anticipating to play this. But then when I saw this
"Only bad thing I can say is the voice acting is garbage."
My heart sank.
That sucks to hear.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
miklonus
Member
Turk you post pics that computers ten years from now can't run.
Brotha I'm prayin' your right man.I think the voice acting is great. Some of it's hammy but that's intentional.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
It's just bullshit tho that we keep getting games with THIS level of poor image quality on console. I don't care if it's the FSR2 causing it. If FSR2 is this bad them you use something else to upscale! That goes with your points about how devs are not treating consoles the way they used to and are just slapping PC settings on there.
We should not be having Worse image quality on PS5 and Series X than we did on PS4 pro and One S! If that's not proof of this gens failings I don't know what is! Sony and MS fucked up not getting better upscaling solutions. Why on earth has the whole industry shifted to FSR2 when the results are so bad?
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
It's not tho ..at all
Kaiserstark
Member
Because FSR2 is really easy to use. On Unreal it's only a plugin to add and if you have our on modern engine (If your engine is a little bit older tech, there is more work to do) it's also pretty easy to codding it into the engine.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Another complaint about modern graphics in Alan wake 2 and some other titles is how hard the game is on the eyes after some time.
Some environments are extremely busy with clutter and details, very desaturated and low contrasty. I had a really weird feeling in these forests. You are in this greyish hyper detailed forest and Infound myself using the map too much. It was tiresome how busy the graphics were at times. Together with grain and fsr break up, the effect was really distracting at times. Not sure how to avoid that with games becoming more realistic.
Some environments are extremely busy with clutter and details, very desaturated and low contrasty. I had a really weird feeling in these forests. You are in this greyish hyper detailed forest and Infound myself using the map too much. It was tiresome how busy the graphics were at times. Together with grain and fsr break up, the effect was really distracting at times. Not sure how to avoid that with games becoming more realistic.
daninthemix
Member
Alan Wake 2 on PC has some real 'lean-in' levels of detail in some areas (in particular I noticed it in the Chapter 5 overlap.
Kaiserstark
Member
Apparently this was the PC version at high settings.
I'm curious to see this game running on console when it's out and not just in a promotional video.
This happens in almost all games, but this is the worse of it all.Some examples off what I explained in other thread about Devs clearly not giving too much care to console games and just using console as cheap pc.
Not utilizing any fallback techniques. "oh yeah, console is too weak so lets lower all the settings to low, put 432p fsr on there and we can't run rt so lets replace it with grain ssr and just not have any mirrors".
"Let's also put some modes in there so they have illusion of choice"
Like... at that point, if You are going to leave NON-RT version of a game so far behind, just make what Insomniac did and just ditch the raster branch altogether and put all the focus in 1 pipeline.
There is no excuse console players have that... thing... in quality mode. +shimmer and fsr and ssr breakup with any motion. It's really poor image quality at times.
(yes, I know I could've played on my 3080 blah blah blah this is not a post about hat. I will be sure to play pc version when i replay the gam 1000% I promise you)
Tons of mirrors in this game. Not even a good hint of reflection. Only grain.
And any metalic, glass or shiny surface looks like that on the left
... Like what happeend? Can't they put at least a simple cubemap on those mirrors or wall decorations? That ssr is clearly one of worst I've ever seen. Might be worse than RE2 on ps4.
It's only fine from a very steep angle.
Use planar reflections. Cubemaps (can even update at slower rate, anything.... there is not a single working mirror in console version of this game.
This is the best and also the most disappointing looking console release recently.
And this is how it looks in motion. Turning of motion blur makes it very jittery and still leaves the dots/fsr breaking.
I don't exactly know the reason why they refuse to implement better reflections (even trough inaccurate), for stuff like this.
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ckstine
Member
3 things, first off: skybox. There is no reason for them to use anything but a static skybox in a game like this, especially if it's this high quality of one. 2, the vegetation looks exactly how it looks in real life in the distance, look it up. 3, light-leak has nothing to do with path tracing. It's about light placement. Regardless, there is only one or two instances of it in the entire game.Tried a bit Alan Wake 2, looks stunning, but I'm a bit disappointed, from those high system req and the path tracing, I had much higher expectations.
What bugs me is the skybox, it's completely static, and also some foliage when in the distance looks off, like this picture:
Also, some light leak of some sorts like here, this was really unexpected being path tracing and static time of day.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, we all know Alan Wake 2 is full of shitty setpieces, Starfield was full of QTEs and the open world Avatar has super restricted gameplay. Yep, thats the only reason why I appreciate the next gen-ness of those games.I think i just cracked the da slimy code, put some shitty setpiece in your game with qte and super stricted gameplay, some precanned destruction that stopped being impressive since unchy2 collapsing building and he is gonna love your game no matter what
My praise for Spiderman's campaign pacing and mission design has nothing to do with next gen fidelity. Otherwise i wouldve posted those impressions here. The game is simply a breath of fresh air because its gone back to the PS3 era mission structure and design sorely lacking from cancer that was the PS4 MAKE EVERYTHING OPEN WORLD era. Only Spiderman is doing it on steroids. We were told by SSM that big setpieces like Cronos take 1 year to 18 months to make and why they moved away from them. Well, this game was made in 2.5 years and all story missions have some kind of setpiece so that was clearly bullshit.
P.S Asking for a spiderman game to be an action packed romp is not insane. Just like how asking a god of war game to be more epic in scale instead of the emotional intimate tlou ripoff we ended up getting.
Actually looks like the game doesn't think the door is closed or there, maybe forgot to add it to the bvh or something?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The point of those cherrypicked shots of avatar was to show that it is doing things horizon wasnt doing.
Again, i take issue with stuff like this. Destroys? come on. I am willing to concede that Avatar no longer looks a generation ahead of horizon, but to say horizon destroys it is ignoring reality. This is a tech discussion thread but all we seem to do is ignore all the things the game does right to focus instead of the weak points. Alan Wake 2 probably has the best lighting and asset density ever in a game? Literally the first game on consoles to use mesh shaders. But rocks are not UE5 quality so the game is last gen. Starfield's outdoor areas look like shit so lets ignore the insane realtime lighting and asset quality in interiors even though 90% of the main story and quests take place indoors. now we are gonna do the same thing with avatar. The forest which will likely make up 90% still looks phenomenal, dense, is fully interactive, and features ray traced foliage, reflections, GI and shadows on consoles because the game has some draw distance issues.
For a thread that prides itself on focusing on tech details that casuals in the main forum wont notice, we sure do tend to miss the next gen things these games are doing.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Alan Wake 2 simply looks fucking phenomenal. Its the first time in a game where lighting alone has made it completely next gen for me.
I think it also has the best character models.
What a phenomenal looking game. None of my screens are doing it any justice. They keep getting Twitter compressed and washed out.
The game looks last gen in my screens, but on my TV... good lord. Its a testament to the "graphics dont matter" crowd that graphics fucking matter. Good graphics absolutely help to build atmosphere and immersion.
The games atmosphere would hit nowhere near as hard as it does if it had shit graphics.
Btw Filmmaker mode for this game is a god send.
I think it also has the best character models.
What a phenomenal looking game. None of my screens are doing it any justice. They keep getting Twitter compressed and washed out.
The game looks last gen in my screens, but on my TV... good lord. Its a testament to the "graphics dont matter" crowd that graphics fucking matter. Good graphics absolutely help to build atmosphere and immersion.
The games atmosphere would hit nowhere near as hard as it does if it had shit graphics.
Btw Filmmaker mode for this game is a god send.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Again, I do agree with you that Avatar has some highs, but I just don't think that a game that looks as insanely inconsistent as this one should be praised.
The Alan Wake 2 and arguably Starfield complaints are nitpicky. This though? I personally think the game looks bad more often than it looks good. It's just not worth celebrating IMO.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Absolutely sure we exstensively spoke about setpieces being nextgen or not in this topic aswell dude but ok.
Maybe kronos took 18 months because it was on a fucking ps3 and was squeezing the console way more than sandman does with a ps5
It sound strange to me that you are in favour of shorter games with shorter developing times but being in favour of wasting multiple months\years on something with almost zero gameplay value like setpieces (months\years for something that usually last between 10 and 20 min)
Thank god santa monica got out of that way of making games.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It’s baked
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
And you are basing this off of some previews? Previews that had everyone from gamespot to ign and random youtubers all praising its visuals? What about all the trailers shown running on PS5 and even at 60 fps on PS5 and all the stunning PC footage? Does HFW destroy Avatar if you use those admittedly cherrypicked-by-marketing graphics?
Its clear that the world level of detail was not downgraded from the e3 ps5 footage. There will always be ugly areas in games. Especially those with dynamic time of day and a lot of the game's footage is set in dull time of day. the day time still looks phenomenal in these previews that are 1080p and look blurry as shit. Maybe the footage provided isnt too flattering but everyone who played it is saying the game looks incredible and next gen. We could look at spidemran and say hey, the buildings are last gen. Cant do that with avatar. Everything about it is next gen save for maybe the draw distance. Lighting, Asset Quality, foliage density, reflections. etc Here most of the next gen stuff they promised is still there and not downgraded, and it will show when you play the game.
Here are the all the things its doing that HFW isnt doing even on consoles:
- RTGI
- RT Reflections
- Way better foliage density and foliage variety
- faster flying - flying combat
- interactive foliage that breaks apart in ways horizon never did - you could see it in the gifs i posted yesterday
Horizon FW does look more striking i will give it that. But i take issue with takes like Avatar looks bad, Horizon destroys it, etc. If you want to say Horizon will look better and more consistently better then fine. I may or may not agree after having played the game, but when i hear those other ridiculous takes, i feel compelled to list all the next gen things Avatar does that Horizon just does not. Lets not forget HFW's big finale was relegated to a fucking cutscene where she literally runs past the dinobots and alien robots in the big epic battlefield and then has two 1v1 boss fights to end the campaign. it was limited as fuck. Just like the flying speeds and lack of combat options in the sky.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Pretty sure I pointed out that spiderman 2 took 2.5 years and has a setpiece in every single mission. some bigger, some smaller, but overall, way more epic than gow. And you and I will never agree with what constitutes as gameplay in these setpieces. In every single spiderman setpiece, I had full control over my character with all his abilities including flying. zero gameplay? not even close.
if you want to play gow as a tlou style dad game then thats fine. that is what it is today. As a fan of the originals, I expected more from SSM when they promised Ragnorak. I brought up the HFW finale earlier. Absolute copout making it a cutscene. Fucking disgusting after they said PS4 didnt hold them back. So yes, when i see FF16 and Spiderman 2 do the setpiece i expect from superhero and fantasy action games then yes, I will attribute those things to next gen. Simply because we didnt get them at all last gen or got them as cutscenes.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Pretty sure i pointed out how none of these setpieces do nothing actually nextgen so they don't squeeze a ps5 like kronos did with a ps3, so they probably need less time to be made, but they probably still need a lot of time.
Yeah we are never gonna be on the same boat if you think that the setpieces in spidey have any value whatsoever gameplay wise, they are scripted, require no skills other than basic ones and i'm pretty sure i heard midgenrefresh saying that you can't even fucking fail the qte...
You can try to bring down kratos with that dad bullshit but deep down you know that a simple encounter with 4 enemies in gow has more gameplay value and skill requested than any setpiece in spiderman, i never died during any setpiece in sp2, not once, they are a spectacular looking waste of time.
We can agree that horizon 2 failed in the final battle, but we always trolled guerrilla for lying about not being limitex by the ps4, it's not like you are saying something new, we can agree on some things.
But when they actually made the setpiece that you love so much in the final battle of the dlc, it was an absolute shit boss fight mechanic wise, so once again big enemy-setpieces=shit gameplay value.
Yeah we are never gonna be on the same boat if you think that the setpieces in spidey have any value whatsoever gameplay wise, they are scripted, require no skills other than basic ones and i'm pretty sure i heard midgenrefresh saying that you can't even fucking fail the qte...
You can try to bring down kratos with that dad bullshit but deep down you know that a simple encounter with 4 enemies in gow has more gameplay value and skill requested than any setpiece in spiderman, i never died during any setpiece in sp2, not once, they are a spectacular looking waste of time.
We can agree that horizon 2 failed in the final battle, but we always trolled guerrilla for lying about not being limitex by the ps4, it's not like you are saying something new, we can agree on some things.
But when they actually made the setpiece that you love so much in the final battle of the dlc, it was an absolute shit boss fight mechanic wise, so once again big enemy-setpieces=shit gameplay value.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I don't need to read previews. I saw 40+ minutes of gameplay with my own eyes.
If you think it looks fantastic, more power to you!
arkhamguy123
Member
I cannot believe that footage was maxed out pc footage. Consoles are gonna look like goddamn far cry 5 bro
Masterofchapter
Member
Dude wait until release even youtubers played it said there is a problem in recording that why it's looks shitty, and it's not even full game just a demo for presentation, and lol it's looks way better than horizon in terms of characters and density of objects, foilage looks ahead of horizon
Xtib81
Member
I'd argue that draw distance is much better in FC6 compared to Avatar. Avatar looks great up close but that draw distance (those flying islands look horrendous) and LOD transitions are very weak.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
there are plenty of 1v1 boss battles in spiderman that i praised in that post in the OT. Spiderman 2 simply shows you can do both. SSM simply didnt do the big setpieces because they limited themselves to last gen hardware, to that stupid fucking single camera bullshit, and quantity over quality. 4.5 years to make a 40-50 hour game, vs 2.5 years to make a 20-25 hour game Insomniac took to make Spiderman 2. Yes, i will take spiderman 2 every day of the week and twice on sunday.
I dont know what QTEs you are talking about. The only QTE i remember is when he stops that rollercoaster from derailing. I am talking about how every single mission feels epic. Every mission ends up in a big setpiece moment. Whether its a slow mission in the woke lab or rescuing tombstone in what was clearly a side mission. everything turns into some kind of action packed setpiece. It's thrilling. It's what you want from superhero games. You keep bringing up sandman, but thats been the only big giant monster boss fight in the game so far. Most boss fights are 1v1 like gow. What they have done with the other missions is simply up the scale by adding more enemies, destroying more buildings, and making everything feel more epic compared to previous games. And again, you have full control over your character so who gives a shit if for a fraction of a second they ask you to do a QTE. Do the fucking QTE and go back to flying, fighting or swinging.
You all are making these setpieces out to be QTE stuff we used to see in the PS3 era in Capcom, Quantic Dream and other early gen PS3 titles. The entire reason why uncharted and gow became so huge was that they allowed you to retain control while the scripted setpieces happened around you. Chronos isnt popular because it has QTEs, its because you have full control over Kratos as he fights regular enemies then finishes off the dude with a QTE that you cant fail. Same goes for uncharted 2. He jumps from cars to cars while fighting. U4 is literally the same exact thing but at a higher level of fidelity and a longer chase scene where you can now drive the cars. We called it next gen.
Now you have FF16 and Spiderman 2 taking the scope to the next level while offering full control just like in GOW3 and Uncharted 2-4, but we are moaning about a few QTEs that pop up in the middle of long setpieces where you have full control of your characters. Drake can drive in Uncharted 4? Amazing right? Well, FF16 lets you fly and fight big titans. In fucking space. It even gives you additional movesets and abilities. Spiderman 2 has added new traversal abilties to take their setpieces to new heights while letting you have full control. Hell, the ratchet portal sequences were on rails and the spiderman one werent.
TLOU2's setpieces were mostly on rails. Both car setpieces did not give you control over your character which is fine. the finale village horse scene was where you had control and it was brilliant. Spiderman 2 is doing that, only instead of a village, you are going through an entire city at breakneck speeds at a much higher level of visual fidelity with so much more going on in the background.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The best character models in gaming. And the cutscene to gameplay transition is sublime.
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Xtib81
Member
The best character models in gaming. And the cutscene to gameplay transition is sublime.
Use spoiler tags please
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Youtubers have said they played it at 1080p 60 fps. Most of these people werent even flown out to the Swedish HQ. They played on streaming PCs. Its fair to assume that it was maxed out at 1080p 60 fps, but 1080p base capture on youtube looks atrocious. Watch any footage and it looks like a blurred pixelated mess. you cant make out most of the detail. The lighting should still stand out but most of the footage seems to be in dull dark grey areas.
Good thing is that we have seen what the game looks like on PC and PS5.
PC
PS5
These areas were not in the preview. But If these areas dont look like that come launch then i will start to worry.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Quantity over quality like the boss fights or normal enemies in spidey were better (or as varied) than ragnarock, holy fuck i'm dying...
Was half game being woke shit the quality over quantity you were talking about?
I think armoured core 6 did setpieces the right way, big awe inspiring locations and bosses with actual gameplay value and challenge.
The walking giant robot being an actual level that you explore was super impressive for a fromsoft title.
Was half game being woke shit the quality over quantity you were talking about?
I think armoured core 6 did setpieces the right way, big awe inspiring locations and bosses with actual gameplay value and challenge.
The walking giant robot being an actual level that you explore was super impressive for a fromsoft title.
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ckstine
Member
it's the literal first sceneUse spoiler tags please
GymWolf
Gold Member
What?
The best character models in gaming. And the cutscene to gameplay transition is sublime.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
It looks sublime. You gotta play it to see it first hand, my gifs are low quality shit
arkhamguy123
Member
Yeah I’m watching avatar in a studied cautious way. It’s already pretty clearly downgraded in my opinion. From earlier footageYoutubers have said they played it at 1080p 60 fps. Most of these people werent even flown out to the Swedish HQ. They played on streaming PCs. Its fair to assume that it was maxed out at 1080p 60 fps, but 1080p base capture on youtube looks atrocious. Watch any footage and it looks like a blurred pixelated mess. you cant make out most of the detail. The lighting should still stand out but most of the footage seems to be in dull dark grey areas.
Good thing is that we have seen what the game looks like on PC and PS5.
PC
PS5
These areas were not in the preview. But If these areas dont look like that come launch then i will start to worry.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Both games are woke. If you kratos being cucked by freya over peter being cucked by MJ then thats your prerogative.
GOW repeats the same exact boss fights 10 times. They did that wit the valkiryes. Did it again with the vikings in ragnorak. They repeat the dragur fights 6 times. dragon fights 4 times. troll fight 5 times. And call it content. Thats ok, every game does it. Horizon, Ass Creed, Skyrim, spiderman , zelda, its gaming 101 in 2023. But spiderman doesnt overstay its welcome. they made a game you can beat and enjoy in 20-25 hours. They couldve had you fight the same bosses ten different times by artificially limiting their movesets until the final boss who gets the entire moveset. But nah, they focused on the story missions and making them as epic as they can. With new bosses, new encounters, new setpieces that belong in a summer blockbuster.
They didnt cry about it being too hard like SSM. Oh boohoo, it took you 18 months to make a setpiece. STFU. Get back to work and sell me a game with some actual setpieces instead of 1v5 fights for 50 hours. These fucking millennial developers just like to make excuses. Oh we dont have ssd so we couldnt do big boss fights. Well, now you have ssd and you chose to stick with the ps4. GTFO. Stop making excuses and take some responsibility. Fucking insomniac did it in 2.5 years.
Look its ok. some people like picking flowers for two hours while riding the back of a cow. Then walking around watching thor get cucked for two hours in asgard. I prefer to fuck shit up in spiderman. in 2 hours, i would chase a lizard across nyc, fight off an all out assault on my base, get new superpowers with new movesets, and then go on another massive chase with miles by my side. Thats quality over quantity.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Dude i saw 4k footage, i know it's not true, the chick face is not even as good as some ps4 characters (worse skin, strange eyes etc.) and secondary\tertiary characters looks good at the very best and not as detailed as horizon characters, the waitress in the little city looked fucking horrid in one of the pics i saw.
Yeah it's gonna be a strong negatory from me dawg.
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Alex11
Member
So you don't agree that AW2 is that good looking?
GymWolf
Gold Member
Oh fucking please, if you think ragnarock is as woke as sp2 for some remarks that freya does and kratos growing into a more mature father figure as opposed to the modern times woke bullshit sp2 constantly throw in your face for the whole game we are really going into bizzarro world and we can definitely stop here.
You don't wanna do a war list of all the woke shit we have in both games, unless you like losing by a gigantic margin.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Absolutely not the best when Death Stranding and TLOU2 exist
The best character models in gaming. And the cutscene to gameplay transition is sublime.
GymWolf
Gold Member
No, i don't agree it has the best characters models ever, you may want to re-read the whole convo.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
both games are woke. spiderman is more woke than gow. I was saying that i am not interested in discussing which game is more woke.
Alex11
Member
Yeah, I get it, it wasn't a snarky comment, I`m just thank f**k that someone doesn't think that, as I agree.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I'm not ok with calling that shit quality content.
I take mimir being an overly talkative fuck over the eyerolling shit we have in sp2.
And they are not even in the same planet of wokeness, sorry.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
You know how I feel about TLOU2. This games character models are better in gameplay. TLOU 2 has yet to be surpassed in cutscenes.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I know it wasn't snarky, and even if it was, never say sorry for being snarky in this topic, it's how we have fun with each other
It can look like me and slimy are having an argument but we are both laughing our ass off while posting, videogames are not a serious matter.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
I can get behind that.
Not sure if i can get behind being better than horizon charas ingame.
Alex11
Member
1, you can find a reason anytime for implementing stuff or not in any game, but that's cool, it's just nitpicky from me, I expected more from a game this caliber.
2, to me it looks like shit in that instance, shot, moment, whatever, I`m talking about the trees in the middle, it doesn't mean anything, when you're in the forest surrounded by trees, it looks good.
3, whatever the tech stuff it looks very wrong and it's not ok.
This does not mean the game doesn't look good, it's just my opinion, I was disappointed and expected more.