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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Yeah, that should help with the foliage in those levels for sure. i remember posting about those missing shadows earlier this year.

but again, very specific and its not an issue in other areas because they simply use high quality shadows. a native ps5 version will let them use higher quality shadows in those open world areas. horizon doesnt have that issue with foliage missing shadows, does it? it doesnt have RT shadows.

I don't know man, I was playing it for a couple of hours over the last week+ and there are so many areas that just doesn't look right. Every couple of minutes you see something like below, now multiply it times I don't even know how many hours (I never finished the game) and you get the full picture.

GpwGwkq.png


u6F0qGC.png


48E8Ba1.png


horizon doesnt have that issue with foliage missing shadows, does it? it doesnt have RT shadows.

No but Horizon weakest point is global illumination. RTGI would fix that as well.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Seriously is there a bigger SCAM studio than Insomniac that gets away with absolute robbery? They goes around bragging that they are ND and Rockstar when they're barely a C-tier studio. They have completely brainwashed everyone into thinking they and their engine is doing something special with the SSD/IO. They're everywhere claiming "ssd ssd ssd ssd".

When they are using the SSD the exact same way everyone else. The only difference being they they use low quality asset and textures.
DF are such a scam marketing channel now that even when they debunk Insominac claims, they turn it into "oh its not the power of the SSD more like the power of the entire I/O stack".

Shame on you DF. When did you stop doing objective research and journalism?
Why is Insominac always begging you to interview them after each game so you can shill for them?

Think about, almost everytime you see a Insominac game mentioned (for example SM2), within the same post is "SSD" and "IO".
"OMG WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH THE SSD IS AMAZING".

Its pure LIES!
THEY ARE NOT!

The studios who are actually doing something special with the SSD. Who are actually ultilizing the SSD within their engine and rendering pipeline. The studio whose game uses the SSD more than any other game. The studio whose use of the SSD actually matched the fake hype from 2020 about "You unload and load high res textures as you turn" as Cerny puts it "what's if the SSD is so fast that as the player is turning around its possible to load textures for everything behind the player in that split second."

The studio does it and says nothing about it. No bragging. No BS "I'm the best" interviews.
I dare you guys to show me one post in this thread or in this entire forum that mentioned
Alan Wake 2 and "SSD/IO" in the same post?

NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Yet they use the SSD more than any other game. This is why the assets and textures are so high res.
When you swap to the mind place, it uses ~2.8 GB/s.
Just walking around and turning uses ~2 GB/s.
And its doing this with no IO stutters.

WHY WONT DF Investigate that? No let's PR for insomniac, they're so great, they are the best.

The scam of insomniac is so huge i remember studios like Ubisoft and COD get destroyed and it became a huge controversy for reusing a single texture/asset/animation. Yes A SINGLE. Yet insomniac is the only game studio in HISTORY to have reused the exact same city/assets/textures/animations "word for word, bar for bar" 3 times! They get away with absolute robbery. And now they have brainwashed the entire industry to make them look like some SSD/IO hot-shot. All so they can flex like they're ND or something.



Remedy made Cerny's dream come true, yet Insomniac gets all the credits.

"What's if the SSD is so fast that as the player is turning around its possible to load textures for everything behind the player in that split second."

U1Wb724.png

i saw that Alan Wake 2 video the other day. blew my mind to see it using 2.9 GBps. totally forgot to post it here.

That said, insomniac DOES use the ssd better than most developers. Remedy is mostly doing it for graphics while Insomniac is doing it for gameplay purposes like faster traversal, portals in ratchet and some setpieces. Still they arent pushing it hard enough and clearly not as hard as Remedy.

I would like to see how AW2 runs on hdds and sata ssds. I think the saga mind palace is probably sitting in vram all the time which is why they are hitting the ssd so much. they probably needed to streaming in data like they are an open world game because they have this really highly detailed room taking up a lot of vram.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Seriously is there a bigger SCAM studio than Insomniac that gets away with absolute robbery? They goes around bragging that they are ND and Rockstar when they're barely a C-tier studio. They have completely brainwashed everyone into thinking they and their engine is doing something special with the SSD/IO. They're everywhere claiming "ssd ssd ssd ssd".

When they are using the SSD the exact same way everyone else. The only difference being they they use low quality asset and textures.
DF are such a scam marketing channel now that even when they debunk Insominac claims, they turn it into "oh its not the power of the SSD more like the power of the entire I/O stack".

Shame on you DF. When did you stop doing objective research and journalism?
Why is Insominac always begging you to interview them after each game so you can shill for them?

Think about, almost everytime you see a Insominac game mentioned (for example SM2), within the same post is "SSD" and "IO".
"OMG WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH THE SSD IS AMAZING".

Its pure LIES!
THEY ARE NOT!

The studios who are actually doing something special with the SSD. Who are actually ultilizing the SSD within their engine and rendering pipeline. The studio whose game uses the SSD more than any other game. The studio whose use of the SSD actually matched the fake hype from 2020 about "You unload and load high res textures as you turn" as Cerny puts it "what's if the SSD is so fast that as the player is turning around its possible to load textures for everything behind the player in that split second."

The studio does it and says nothing about it. No bragging. No BS "I'm the best" interviews.
I dare you guys to show me one post in this thread or in this entire forum that mentioned
Alan Wake 2 and "SSD/IO" in the same post?

NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Yet they use the SSD more than any other game. This is why the assets and textures are so high res.
When you swap to the mind place, it uses ~2.8 GB/s.
Just walking around and turning uses ~2 GB/s.
And its doing this with no IO stutters.

WHY WONT DF Investigate that? No let's PR for insomniac, they're so great, they are the best.

The scam of insomniac is so huge i remember studios like Ubisoft and COD get destroyed and it became a huge controversy for reusing a single texture/asset/animation. Yes A SINGLE. Yet insomniac is the only game studio in HISTORY to have reused the exact same city/assets/textures/animations "word for word, bar for bar" 3 times! They get away with absolute robbery. And now they have brainwashed the entire industry to make them look like some SSD/IO hot-shot. All so they can flex like they're ND or something.



Remedy made Cerny's dream come true, yet Insomniac gets all the credits.

"What's if the SSD is so fast that as the player is turning around its possible to load textures for everything behind the player in that split second."

U1Wb724.png


Just about everything you said here is wrong but this hate boner you have for insomniac seems to give you much pleasure, so I won't object lol.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I don't know man, I was playing it for a couple of hours over the last week+ and there are so many areas that just doesn't look right. Every couple of minutes you see something like below, now multiply it times I don't even know how many hours (I never finished the game) and you get the full picture.

GpwGwkq.png


u6F0qGC.png


48E8Ba1.png




No but Horizon weakest point is global illumination. RTGI would fix that as well.
I stand corrected. I guess it will fix all the day time lighting issues. My memory of the game is mostly cherrypicked sections that looked stunning because were in the rain and under cloudy environments, so totally forgot about these other areas.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
I stand corrected. I guess it will fix all the day time lighting issues. My memory of the game is mostly cherrypicked sections that looked stunning because were in the rain and under cloudy environments, so totally forgot about these other areas.

I'd love to see next-gen version of TLOU2 with path tracing. Maybe a showpiece for PS5 pro and second season of the TV show? That would be amazing and maybe I would finally finish the game after so many years.

Edit: to be clear, I have no idea how powerful PS5 is rumored to be, I'm out of touch on this.
 
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Audiophile

Member
I still find HFW to be the most impressive game when it comes to the overall effect. When I sit back on my sofa looking at a 55" OLED, what is most important is how cohesive, consistent and impressive the overall image is; how it all hangs together. Multiple other recent games have all these great effects and I can say they're individually great and pick them apart, a lot are doing things that are much more technically impressive. But nothing hits as a whole like HFW. The fact that it's coming from a cross-gen title running ~4K/40fps on PS5 make it all the more impressive. It's a perfect example of balancing all the different elements in the frame.

The sheer density and lighting/shadowing is spot on and yet the image quality remains silky smooth with minimal coarse specular or ringing from sharpening, not to mention reflections/emissives/shadows not being a noisy mess like everything else coming about as of late. Even the temporal AA artifacts are well managed. There's plenty of inaccuracies and leakage yet it still just works as a complete image. And the underwater shading is just leagues above everything else. I can't wait to see what they do with a fully next gen title, and when they do [hopefully] plug those inaccuracies with RT. Especially excited that Kojima's DS2 is coming out exclusive to PS5; and on this engine once more, probably my most anticipated title.
 
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zeroluck

Member
I hope all engines move toward Nanite or Ray tracing, normal maps starting to look very bad, can we finally get some real polygons with nice self shadowing.
 

ckstine

Member
I hope all engines move toward Nanite or Ray tracing, normal maps starting to look very bad, can we finally get some real polygons with nice self shadowing.
nanite is less about high-poly count models, instead it is about LOD transitioning and optimization. Ray-tracing also isn't needed for self-shadowed objects, that'd be more in-line with POM materials. Self shadowing in a non-baked sense, however, is typically possible with most kinds of geo and really any sort of dynamic lighting.
 

ckstine

Member
giphy.gif



Every fucking rtx demo always has incredible asset quality and people act like it's just rtx sauce, gtfo.
tbh I never really found any of them *that* impressive. the assets are great, and the lighting is good, but the small scale + inaccuracies really don't help them. stuff like the old physx demos with the water and cloth are way more interesting to me.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
tbh I never really found any of them *that* impressive. the assets are great, and the lighting is good, but the small scale + inaccuracies really don't help them. stuff like the old physx demos with the water and cloth are way more interesting to me.
That's because we are starved for good physics in games.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Edit: to be clear, I have no idea how powerful PS5 is rumored to be, I'm out of touch on this.
People seem to think AMD is about to make some kind of RT breakthrough with RDNA4 and that the PS5 will leverage that tech, but i have doubts. At best they finally get close to RTX performance. At which point, the GPU will still only be as powerful as a 3070 in ray traced games. Still cant do much with it coming from a 3080 owner who is simply tired of sacrificing image quality for rt effects.
 

ckstine

Member
That's because we are starved for good physics in games.
it really is a bummer, because physics can boost immersion just as much as fidelity. a (current gen) game with great sound, visuals, and physics still has yet to be made. alan wake doesn't have all that much environmental interaction, RoboCop has bad sound quality, trepang has middling visuals, etc.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
aa and aaa devs are too scared to make a high quality or at least high budget PC exclusive these days. even bg3 is on console, for chrissake.
Been saying it, we'll never see another crysis again. A game that said fuck weak peasant consoles, and fuck you and your weak GPU, we're making a game from the future - you can run it properly when you get new gear.

That game was a godsend for graphics whores. it didnt care at all about who could or couldnt run it, they just made the very best looking game possible.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
rockstar will save us. physics and water simulation are coming. wait for devs who actually have some ambition.

p.s max payne 3 has been trending on twitter these last few days. very funny to see them implement actual physics rolling down stairs and only use it in the stadium level. rockstar is crazy.
 

ckstine

Member
Been saying it, we'll never see another crysis again. A game that said fuck weak peasant consoles, and fuck you and your weak GPU, we're making a game from the future - you can run it properly when you get new gear.

That game was a godsend for graphics whores. it didnt care at all about who could or couldnt run it, they just made the very best looking game possible.
I wouldn't say never. AW2 is a Crysis imo. The environmental interactivity in AW2 is better than crysis, but that isn't saying much. The touch-bending looks great. Crysis has bad sound as well. And Crysis did release on consoles... idk.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I wouldn't say never. AW2 is a Crysis imo. The environmental interactivity in AW2 is better than crysis, but that isn't saying much. The touch-bending looks great. Crysis has bad sound as well. And Crysis did release on consoles... idk.
As good as AW2 looks, it'll be passed next year by some upcoming game. Then again by multiple games later on, especially at the end of the gen. Might get topped as early as April with Silent Hill 2. Crysis wasn't topped for the entire PS360 gen and it released in 2007. And it only released on consoles years after. The game was future proof, is the point im getting at
 

Hugare

Member
I'd love to see next-gen version of TLOU2 with path tracing. Maybe a showpiece for PS5 pro and second season of the TV show? That would be amazing and maybe I would finally finish the game after so many years.

Edit: to be clear, I have no idea how powerful PS5 is rumored to be, I'm out of touch on this.
Not gonna happen, I think

Naughty Dog has an specific team only responsible for carefuly lighting interiors. Checking if pretty much every scene in the game is lit just right.

If they add PT, they would have to check pretty much every scene in the game to see if it looks good. Doubt that they would dedicate this much effort for a remaster.

I can imagine they adding RT Shadows, maybe Reflections, but not GI or PT

RT Shadows wouldnt be that expensive, and it would make a huge difference with vegetation (which the game has a bunch)
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
As good as AW2 looks, it'll be passed next year by some upcoming game. Then again by multiple games later on, especially at the end of the gen. Might get topped as early as April with Silent Hill 2. Crysis wasn't topped for the entire PS360 gen and it released in 2007. And it only released on consoles years after. The game was future proof, is the point im getting at
Matrix Awakens is the crysis of this gen. it will never be topped.

Annnnnd Im out.
 
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rofif

Banned
Again, it doesn't transfer well in still screenshots, but the water in Alan Wake is also very impressive:

53314571855_779e771fcc_o.png


53314571865_ddbf42b114_o.png


53314097871_647b959735_o.png
I am partial to tlou2 water: (and uncharted 4 water to an extension)


And The Last guardian Water is so amazing. I just like this wet looking blue water... i don't know what it is.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I wouldn't say never. AW2 is a Crysis imo. The environmental interactivity in AW2 is better than crysis, but that isn't saying much. The touch-bending looks great. Crysis has bad sound as well. And Crysis did release on consoles... idk.
I'm sorry what?

In that damn game you could precisely cut trees with machine guns...

Isn't people saying that aw2 is pretty static?
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Mad Max looks exactly how I remembered. Yes, it's showing its age when you're up close but vistas are still very nice.

DTfZtO9.jpg
Thats because its an early gen ps4 game.

Their next game was Rage 2 and has much better level of detail, lighting, explosions, etc. Its a big upgrade. Only problem is that Rage 2 kinda sucks while Mad max is amazing.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
lol its a copy pasta. But most of these are copy pasta in real life.

Robocop looks better than the matrix here lol

As it should be. There's no need to waste time and resources to model and texture every day objects for every single game.

Man, I like this demo. It's a glimpse into the future. I remember I was critical about it but the more I check it out the more impressed I am.

s0X83lf.jpg
 

CGNoire

Member



Imagine how it look in 4k.

The 69 metascore for this one is never gonna be not funny.

The game had everything:

The most heavy and realistic depiction of free flow with no bullshit teleport between enemies and arguably more violent and hard hitting than any batman game.

Fun driving and car combat.

Fun progression for both melee and car gadgets

Decent bleak mad max plot with a bleak finale

Low key one of the best sidekick from ps4 generation, honestly if you don't love cum bucket, you probably don't have a soul or blood in your veins.

Some INCREDIBLE graphical feature

Yah I remember playing and being like....why isnt anyone talking about this......ohhhhh they didnt get there checks thats right.
 

CGNoire

Member
well obviously. Path tracing is just brute forcing graphics. It's really a waste of performance but it looks great.
The Marble demo was less about RT in the end but more about incredibly high quality assets.
Is there compiled marble demo? I wanted to try it out but I cant be arsed to install nvidia thing
It was about both....and yes the assets are GodTier.
 
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MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Again, it doesn't transfer well in still screenshots, but the water in Alan Wake is also very impressive:

53314571855_779e771fcc_o.png


53314571865_ddbf42b114_o.png


53314097871_647b959735_o.png

I'm on record here praising the hell out of Alan Wake 2 but these 2 don't look particularly good in my opinion.

Sewer water in Robocop looks disgusting :

mCdxqEv.jpg
 
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Audiophile

Member
Good chance we're seeing Death Stranding 2 gameplay next month during the TGA's, what's everyone thinking? will they deliver the next-gen goodness. The first trailer was extremely impressive.

Also weird how we haven't seen anything from the next Metro game, it's supposed to have been fully playable state months ago according to TH, and the reason I mention it is because 4A Games were clear about them taking full advantage of next-gen hardware.
Really can't wait to see what they're doing, it's my most anticipated game. With everything else, I pretty much know what I'm gonna get, but with DS2 it's the first time in a long time I'm excited by the mystery of what something might be..

I loved the gameplay and world in the first; and the art style was on point. Paired with arguably the best engine/tech around I'm legit excited.
 

Msamy

Member

Just saw more gameplay videos from robocop in rtx (wow) , considering it from AA developer is really amazing i am really considering buying it , I think it can take a position in top 3 best graphics in 2023 alongside Aw2 and avatar
 
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MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially

Just saw more gameplay videos from robocop in rtx (wow) , considering it from AA developer is really amazing i am really considering buying it , I think it can take a position in top 3 best graphics in 2023 alongside Aw2 and avatar


Do it, buy it. It’s good fun. And yes, the highs in this game are even higher than those in Alan Wake 2.
 

Msamy

Member
Do it, buy it. It’s good fun. And yes, the highs in this game are even higher than those in Alan Wake 2.
I will do it , after watching many videos I think this game shown the power of UE5 that we are waiting for , I think ND, Guerrilla, SSM , 4A games and rockstar games are gonna have very hard time to beat the graphics of games that will take full advantage of UE5 , I really don't like that fact ( i always favor in-house engines)but to think AA studio mange to do this with UE5 , I can't imagine what big studios like cdpr (the witcher 4) , coalition (gears 6) and crystal dynamics (tomb raider) can do with it.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I will do it , after watching many videos I think this game shown the power of UE5 that we are waiting for , I think ND, Guerrilla, SSM , 4A games and rockstar games are gonna have very hard time to beat the graphics of games that will take full advantage of UE5 , I really don't like that fact ( i always favor in-house engines)but to think AA studio mange to do this with UE5 , I can't imagine what big studios like cdpr (the witcher 4) , coalition (gears 6) and crystal dynamics (tomb raider) can do with it.
Big studios will do just fine. Remedy and Ubisoft Massive have already tailored their engines to use primitive and mesh shaders and are pushing insane level of detail. GG, SSM and ND will do the same. Insomniac shouldve done it as well, but they are making like 3 games at a time every 2 years.

The trick is to utilize the GPU to push level of detail, lighting and other visual effects instead of pixels. These console GPUs are not THAT underpowered. 10-12 tflops should be enough to push stunning level of fidelity at 1440p 30 fps which is what UE5 demos did.

Even starfield is pushing some sick modeling work and lighting indoors. Outdoors it kinda falls apart but thats bethesda for you. ND and other talented studios will easily outdo robocop as long as they stick with that 1440p 30 fps target, and not waste 50% of the GPU power rendering native 4k. TBH, its kinda crazy that insomniac stuck with the same native 4k 30 fps target they had for MIiles and Spiderman Remastered and still managed to upgrade so many different visual features like lighting, reflections, and traffic density. The power is there. Devs just need to smartly utilize it.
 

Msamy

Member
Big studios will do just fine. Remedy and Ubisoft Massive have already tailored their engines to use primitive and mesh shaders and are pushing insane level of detail. GG, SSM and ND will do the same. Insomniac shouldve done it as well, but they are making like 3 games at a time every 2 years.

The trick is to utilize the GPU to push level of detail, lighting and other visual effects instead of pixels. These console GPUs are not THAT underpowered. 10-12 tflops should be enough to push stunning level of fidelity at 1440p 30 fps which is what UE5 demos did.

Even starfield is pushing some sick modeling work and lighting indoors. Outdoors it kinda falls apart but thats bethesda for you. ND and other talented studios will easily outdo robocop as long as they stick with that 1440p 30 fps target, and not waste 50% of the GPU power rendering native 4k. TBH, its kinda crazy that insomniac stuck with the same native 4k 30 fps target they had for MIiles and Spiderman Remastered and still managed to upgrade so many different visual features like lighting, reflections, and traffic density. The power is there. Devs just need to smartly utilize it.
I am with you in remedy and massive do amazing things in their own , and I think big Sony studios can keep up with UE5 but after what insomniac did, you can say I am little worried even if they approach like you said , insomniac was one of may favourites (in graphics area) but after sm2 they no longer be in my list , I hope with wolverine they can have different approach in terms of graphics quality, also I think Sony first party studios will need to take full advantage of ps5 pro in their future releases to keep up with ue5 games
 
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T4keD0wN

Member
But does Robocop even use Nanite?
Yes, it does. Static meshes, landscape and more. I am too lazy to check additional hundreds of rows to figure out what else.
Just about everything you said here is wrong but this hate boner you have for insomniac seems to give you much pleasure, so I won't object lol.
Rift Apart peaks at ~600Mbps reads and stays around 300-550 during the big portal sequence. Removing directstorage .dll makes zero difference in that game in its PC version.

Even if the ssd was barely above 10% usage it is more than what was possible on hard drives and the sequential speeds are only just 1 aspect that has improved among many others like the ssd controller, dram (not really relevant here) and the far superior random reads (very relevant here). It doesnt have to be used to 100% of its potential it just has to go higher than the previous drives were capable and they were at least right when saying that.

He is not exactly wrong about the ssd. While the ssd definitely enables them to do what they previously couldnt, its not because of those sequential speeds that were so heavily used for marketing purposes (big numbers impress people even if they dont know what those numbers mean), those peak seq. read speeds were always irrelevant. And DF come across as weirdos for pretending their engine somehow makes magial use of storage I/O when you can traverse most games even faster than spidey 2.
 
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ckstine

Member
As good as AW2 looks, it'll be passed next year by some upcoming game. Then again by multiple games later on, especially at the end of the gen. Might get topped as early as April with Silent Hill 2. Crysis wasn't topped for the entire PS360 gen and it released in 2007. And it only released on consoles years after. The game was future proof, is the point im getting at
Disagree big time. I think it'll be top dog for the foreseeable future. It's a labor of love.
 

ckstine

Member
Look how long it took people to realize Robocop is pushing Matrix quality where it actually matters; This is why this hobby is absolute ass today, it's the fans and developers.
I was saying that like a week ago, and yeah, it really *really* is. Robocop is damn impressive, and if we see more 40-50$ games with that quality, you can sign me the fuck on.
 

M1987

Member
I'm playing around with city from Matrix on PC right now and I've found a familiar looking sign:

VANB5AT.jpg


And this is from RoboCop:

73rvmy3.jpg
Where do you get the Matrix demo on PC? couldn't find it anywhere when I looked a few weeks ago apart from a superman demo
 
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M1987

Member

Just saw more gameplay videos from robocop in rtx (wow) , considering it from AA developer is really amazing i am really considering buying it , I think it can take a position in top 3 best graphics in 2023 alongside Aw2 and avatar

It's very inconsistent,the streets look incredible,but the characters look shit
 
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