Doesn't FFXIII VS becoming FFXV contradict this?
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I just wish we'd get a mainline FF with turn based similar to Persona 5
- Thread starter The Dude
- Start date
Doesn't FFXIII VS becoming FFXV contradict this?
Vincent Grayson
Member
Totally agreed. I'd love to see Persona 6 try something new with their combat system. I don't know what exactly, but something that expands beyond the increasingly rote "if weak to X, use X" system.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I slightly disagree with the OP.
While I absolutely love Persona game play, I want games to try their own things. If every game starts copying another successful one, we'll get tired of all of them real soon.
While I absolutely love Persona game play, I want games to try their own things. If every game starts copying another successful one, we'll get tired of all of them real soon.
It doesn't matter if it's similar or not( though I wouldn't mind since P5 has one of the most fun turn based combat ever amde yet). Just make it goddamn turn based.
Bravely Default has one of the best turn based systems ever made and it's a SE game. Maybe it can inspire the next FF with some tweaks.
Bravely Default has one of the best turn based systems ever made and it's a SE game. Maybe it can inspire the next FF with some tweaks.
Crankshaft
Member
I think Square has decided that Dragon Quest is their classic turn based series and Final Fantasy is their experimental mainstream series. I dont think we will see a mainline FF game that is turn based for quite awhile, if ever. I think if they had added turned based combat to 15 then I would've kept playing though.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Would be nice to see them try their hands at something new. Might be the next great leap forward the same way P3 was.
But I imagine it would be extremely costly to try that, and at the end of the day Persona 5 despite it's success is still not mainstream enough to make up for that cost had they gone down that road.
Yup. Just look at all the games that tried to copy call of duty last gen.
People who want what call of duty offers aren't gonna jump on board because you made an inferior version of something that already have.
Flachmatuch
Member
Bullshit.
I can't imagine what an real-time combat Persona game would play like.
Just build upon LR's great battle-system. Best in the series, imo. It has every command mapped directly to the face-buttons too and it's also snappy and fast like P5 looks to be (haven't played it yet). Or well, work a lot on fundamentally improving FFXV's combat, if they want to do that style again someday (learn from Platinum and look at what Automata does right for example). I'm expecting FFXVI to be different than FFXV, anyway.
Holy hell. Is this why people hate FFXIII?
Persona 6 can go in a totally different direction since Hashino & Soejima have decided to focus on a new IP. Maybe they even use a different composer.
Or they can play it safe and follow previous titles like Persona 5 did.
cireza
Member
Honestly the battle system in Persona is very poor (based on my experience of Persona 3 and 4).
It is pretty much repeating the same strategy again and again. Weakness, weakness, weakness, rush attack. Repeat. Incredibly boring.
There are more interesting turn based RPGs out there, Lost Odyssey for example. Phantasy Star IV if you consider older games.
Battles that are not too long, yet involve some strategy to finish them fast enough. You can't simply Attack Attack Attack your way through those games, so that's good.
I think you can make a clever and interesting battle system without having incredibly complex mechanics.
Final Fantasy X has a fine battle system, I like it. Too bad you have to switch all characters for them to gain experience : so annoying.
It is pretty much repeating the same strategy again and again. Weakness, weakness, weakness, rush attack. Repeat. Incredibly boring.
There are more interesting turn based RPGs out there, Lost Odyssey for example. Phantasy Star IV if you consider older games.
Battles that are not too long, yet involve some strategy to finish them fast enough. You can't simply Attack Attack Attack your way through those games, so that's good.
I think you can make a clever and interesting battle system without having incredibly complex mechanics.
Final Fantasy X has a fine battle system, I like it. Too bad you have to switch all characters for them to gain experience : so annoying.
CaviarMeths
Member
Well, the story is pants and the characters are all wankers. That probably has more to do with it. Toriyama's comments don't really indicate that he took influence from Call of Duty though. I just found the connection from your post and his comments to be a funny coincidence. All he's really saying is that XIII utilizes set pieces to tell a specific linear story, like an FPS campaign, rather than put players into a big world with more freedom, like a traditional RPG.
I didn't mind it though. It's a pretty middle-of-the-road Final Fantasy IMO. I'd put it on par with VIII and X. Good game, not great.
The Dude
Member
And that is another example of what I don't get about the crowds, they'll play and sat up DQ which has been around just as long and yet ff can't have turn based because...?
Personally dragon quest is the series I respect greatly because it's held true to its roots and it always delivers.
shnurgleton
Member
Final Fantasy dies the day it stops trying to innovate its battle system. Even with the past 15 years of the series having been often below expectations, at least they're attempting to push the envelope.
Persona hasn't innovated much beyond plucking different elements of SMTs past and putting on a fresh coat of paint.
Disclaimer: I love Persona and SMT more than any final fantasy since after the PS1 era. I'm more likely to replay a weaker SMT game than FFX.
Persona hasn't innovated much beyond plucking different elements of SMTs past and putting on a fresh coat of paint.
Disclaimer: I love Persona and SMT more than any final fantasy since after the PS1 era. I'm more likely to replay a weaker SMT game than FFX.
The Dude
Member
The irony is all their so called innovating still hasn't given them a better game than the classics with turn based
It's not that much about being turn based or not. To me, the style of FFXV battle would work, even as a rpg type if they just worked a little more on certain aspects.
It was right there, in the palm of their hands..
There is that AI part of the skill tree. It's just there.
Now make it bigger, more interesting with more defensive and offensive variety, ANNNND make the player choose. Make him use slots for those AI skills and let him choose the one he can use. BAAAAM, the game actually has a tactical side. It's really not that hard. It was just there.
Now of course the action part.. It's not even that it shouldn't be there. It's simply (and i've been saying that since the demo) that it should be more easy, more automated or with more visual help, so that the difficulty of the game can be balanced toward this aspect and the strategic one more.
That could have worked perfectly i think.
I mean.. apart from the terrible world, pacing, story, characters, writing..
But that part is more about SE working on their engine / tech so much that they forget what makes their game good in first place.
It was right there, in the palm of their hands..
There is that AI part of the skill tree. It's just there.
Now make it bigger, more interesting with more defensive and offensive variety, ANNNND make the player choose. Make him use slots for those AI skills and let him choose the one he can use. BAAAAM, the game actually has a tactical side. It's really not that hard. It was just there.
Now of course the action part.. It's not even that it shouldn't be there. It's simply (and i've been saying that since the demo) that it should be more easy, more automated or with more visual help, so that the difficulty of the game can be balanced toward this aspect and the strategic one more.
That could have worked perfectly i think.
I mean.. apart from the terrible world, pacing, story, characters, writing..
But that part is more about SE working on their engine / tech so much that they forget what makes their game good in first place.
The Dude
Member
Also, you can still innovate/experiment with turn based combat. Real time and turn based are both ancient, just because they decided to experiment with real time doesn't mean it's not taking an old ass game convent and repackage it. But they could as easily do it with turn based as well
Supermanisdead
Member
The combat system in 15 is just shallow and barely evolves. You have all your weapons from the get go, all your magic options, and you'll never unlock new playable characters or jobs. It's just mindless and shallow from beginning to end.
The Last One
Member
FF XII is turn-based.
The Dude
Member
If Square decides to make a new turn-based FF, they need to take a long, hard look at Divinity: Original Sin.
Let's have Ivalice as the setting while we're at it
Well that's getting into isometric crpg territory, which I love... But different style. Although I'd take it over the chaotic mess we got in ffxv
Persona 3/4 battle system may have been a bit barebones compared to traditional SMT gameplay, but it's still in the upper end.
Persona 5 is amazing. In the 60 hours I've played so far I've used both melee and gun attacks, attack magic, buffs, debuffs and even status effects.
That's not something you see often in a JRPG.
Command based maybe. But I don't think there is much of a difference between traditional MMO gameplay and FFXII. The ATB bar makes it slower than MMOs, which relied in global cooldowns, but they're quite similar imo.
Like this probably.
I don't think Persona is probably the best example of a good turn based battle system, it has always been a worse version of the press turn system and P5 is very automated too.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Mainline Final Fantasy will not go back to wait time turn based combat. You need to go to the spin-offs and to Bravely Default if you crave that still.
Final Fantasy used basically the same battle system from IV to IX with only minor tweaks in pre-battle management and many consider that period of time to be its golden years.
YoRHa No.2 Type B
Banned
Good that they sticked with turn-based. Though, Persona 6 might probably more Tales-Like (I hope not)
I've been feeling this way since the PS2 era. I started straying from Final Fantasy titles and saw myself playing more Atlus games like Strange Journey, Digital Devil Saga and Persona series because they offered me what Final Fantasy couldn't. I STILL play Final Fantasy games, but it's more because I want a different JRPG experience rather than an enjoyable refined one.
Atlus proves that people still want JRPG games but Square Enix keeps experimenting which isn't a bad thing but it's also not what RPG fans want in their JRPGs. I liked when Kingdom Hearts was the only action RPG game they had but now it feels like all of their games are single character controlled action RPG which makes me a bit sad after viewing their SNES-PS1 output. I don't like it because it takes the fun out of planning/strategy to make it more "action-oriented". We had KH series for that fix but why are all their games this way now?
Atlus proves that people still want JRPG games but Square Enix keeps experimenting which isn't a bad thing but it's also not what RPG fans want in their JRPGs. I liked when Kingdom Hearts was the only action RPG game they had but now it feels like all of their games are single character controlled action RPG which makes me a bit sad after viewing their SNES-PS1 output. I don't like it because it takes the fun out of planning/strategy to make it more "action-oriented". We had KH series for that fix but why are all their games this way now?
Why does it need to be mainline? What difference does it make?
The Dude
Member
If they made an actual, serious final fantasy spinoff that was more like lost Odyssey I'd take it and let the main series be whatever it wants. But the problem with woff is I feel like it was made for 5 year olds, I couldn't stomach the kiddieness of it.
Make a real spinoff that actually has some merit that's turn based and I'll happily play it
Make a real spinoff that actually has some merit that's turn based and I'll happily play it
Grindlefly
Member
I much prefer turn based but yea I would second this. Ff15 combat just didn't have enough. Where was the multitude of magic other than 3 elements? Why could there not be summons that could be found throughout the world that you could use when you wanted? Where was poison and haste and status attacks and defence.
If they could have gone deeper I would have quite liked it.
I don't however like the assumption or belief that turn based is outdated/antiquated
Dark_castle
Junior Member
I'm 60+ hours into P5 and I'm loving the game, but for P6 I hope they shake up the formula completely by returning to the style of P2:EP. Adult casts with jobs, even darker story, more free roam/freedom with no time restrictions, multiple towns, districts, and dungeons to explore and so on.
Jonneh3003
Banned
I agree but at least Square are continuing turn based Final Fantasy in Bravely Default, Second and Octopath Traveler. I want a high budget turn based Final Fantasy too but these games are all great, hoping for the best out of Octopath Traveler:
The Dude
Member
I'm all for those, i enjoyed them greatly on my 3ds but I simply want more console games like it. Hopefully switch makes it happen.
YankeeDonB
Member
This is right about where I'm at (except I do like well executed turn-based systems like FF X).
SE's various FF battle systems have all been interesting I think. The series has paled somewhat because the writing/plotting/pacing have all been off in varying degrees ever since X.
It's on a current-gen console and had a fairly good budget.
Many turn based games these days are handheld or indie (or spin-offs like World of FF), and not everyone wants that. I personally don't like the chibi style of the Bravely Default and WoFF games.
Octopath Traveler looks interesting
God no, I hate Tales combat.
The Last One
Member
You select an action and wait for the bar to fill.
Yes, it's ATB. Actually, it's one of the best in the market.
Not in the way that many people enjoy.
I see it more as a successful evolution of traditional turn-based combat rather than a different style.
Turn-based games aren't required to have random battles and transitions to pre-baked battle screens. I understand that that movement and positioning mixes up the formula, but it they're vital to solving the aforementioned design limitations. And let's be honest: random battles and transitions to pre-baked battle screens are design limitations, not "features".
Square could only rely on the isometric perspective for battles, or *gasp* innovate and work on an intuitive camera system that still captures the beloved spectacle of FF combat. If they can show Ramuh bunker-busting a cave-dwelling demon from the surface, I'm certain that they have the technical aptitude to figure it out.
I think we should let each series be what it wants to be.
There's probably certain elements (UI, storytelling, etc.) that would be beneficial to have cross the streams, but I think having more diversity in gameplay/story/style is more interesting for players overall. Rather than wishing X series could make a game like this one from Y series, wouldn't it be better for JRPG fans not to muddle through the same type of game over and over?
.hack gameplay got sort of old quickly because they basically had the same combat systems for each 'episode' of their stories.
There's probably certain elements (UI, storytelling, etc.) that would be beneficial to have cross the streams, but I think having more diversity in gameplay/story/style is more interesting for players overall. Rather than wishing X series could make a game like this one from Y series, wouldn't it be better for JRPG fans not to muddle through the same type of game over and over?
.hack gameplay got sort of old quickly because they basically had the same combat systems for each 'episode' of their stories.
LordKasual
Banned
turn based FF is over with. There's no reason to pursue it anymore when the teams can do Open World + Action with everything that turn-based FF had included.
FF7R and XV are going to be the future. They'll probably just build off of those formulas until they hit a mechanical sweetspot.
World of Final Fantasy is the direction that needs to stick to spinoffs and mobile games. It's a regression on everything the SNES / PSX FF games built up on, and I really hope it dies off. Visually, it's less interesting or engaging than even FF7 was, and it just feels lazy to me.
FF7R and XV are going to be the future. They'll probably just build off of those formulas until they hit a mechanical sweetspot.
World of Final Fantasy is the direction that needs to stick to spinoffs and mobile games. It's a regression on everything the SNES / PSX FF games built up on, and I really hope it dies off. Visually, it's less interesting or engaging than even FF7 was, and it just feels lazy to me.
The Dude
Member
Yea because we're all asking for the same game over and over lol
Abandon hope.
It's action based and development is being assisted by the people who make the Naruto games.
LordKasual
Banned
Just about every FF game is a shallow and brainless affair if you have any level of series savviness.
FF7 = Enemy Skill can break the entire first disc by the time you leave midgar, All+Magic as well.
FF8 = Limit spam, especially Renzokuken
FF9 = was honestly pretty boring because it removed all the broken shit from 6/7/8
FF10 = lolyuna
FF12 = Most gambits will wreck everything that isn't a boss or clan mark
FF13 = Autobattle, com/com/com, com/rav/rav, sen/heal/heal, rinse repeat