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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance

pants

Member
Then you should be calling for Genyo Takeda's head instead. Regardless, Nintendo will not follow in high-powered hardware simply because the cost of doing so is just far too great for a small company to risk.
He does not have the final say, he too has to work to a plan approved by the higher ups. I doubt the cost of something in the same ballpark as the PS4 and 720/loop would have set them back much more than the WiiU. They instead chose to spend that money on a tablet. It's not that 'lol it's weak' it that they rather spend money on things I don't care about than things I do at the fundamental level. If they threw out the tablet and had a weaker console in favor of oculus rift though I'd be there day 1.


If you don't like what Nintendo puts out that is perfectly fine but they are still producing quality games and Iwata should not be fired just because they aren't making them for a level above what their hardware supports.
(Chopping out the bit about money because it's not relevant to me, was hoping you would catch on that I am not going to respond to it =P)

Haven't cared for their software since FZero, so thats irrelevant to me. He's the head of the company, the hardware plan is vetted by him, so yes the buck stops at him when it comes to what I find iresome about Nintendo. Am I being selfish? Absolutely. So is everyone else when it comes to what they want. I think he should be fired and I realize I'm in the minority, but that is also irrelevant to me expressing my wants.
 

Cutebrute

Member
The most good that would come out of an Iwata resignation would be a likely shake-up at NoA: a new CEO who is concerned about sales and profitability would probably not take to the disastrous situation in the Americas and give Reggie and his team the boot.

That said, as a gamer, I would rather have an incompetent NoA than a soulless Nintendo.
 

TDLink

Member
Superb job at what? Failing to sell the Wii U to consumers? Failing to get third party developpers on board for their AAA games? Failing to make hardware powerful enough to interest both groups?

The Wii U has hardly any software. That needs to come first before the system really starts to move. The same thing happened with 3DS. Now that software is finally deluging the system units are being purchased. This winter when Zelda/Mario Kart/Whatever are out will be when the system will truly begin to be tested.

As I already said in an earlier post, the hardware power being less than the competitors is a strategy that has worked for them just about 3 times in a row now. You can't really fault it.
 

jwhit28

Member
I have no problem with the product Nintendo is producing. I do have a problem with them not foreseeing the challenges in launching the 3DS with a substantial library and then having the same problem with Wii U.

When the software gets released I enjoy it now just as much as ever but the problem is with getting the software to market when it is most needed.
 

JoeM86

Member
lol

I think?


Really? Outside of Japan the 3DS is barely even selling 'well', never mind 'ridiculously well' and certainly not 'DS levels of well'.

That's not true. The 3DS is doing well in all regions. It's not setting them alight no, but it's not doing badly in any sense of the word. Selling 30m worldwide in less than 2 years is just very good
 

prwxv3

Member
Then you should be calling for Genyo Takeda's head instead. Regardless, Nintendo will not follow in high-powered hardware simply because the cost of doing so is just far too great for a small company to risk.

The problem is that Nintendo are taking a loss on low powered tech.
 
He does not have the final say, he too has to work to a plan approved by the higher ups. I doubt the cost of something in the same ballpark as the PS4 and 720/loop would have set them back much more than the WiiU. They instead chose to spend that money on a tablet. It's not that 'lol it's weak' it that they rather spend money on things I don't care about than things I do at the fundamental level. If they threw out the tablet and had a weaker console in favor of oculus rift though I'd be there day 1.


Nintendo's obsession on low TPD is was confused me.

Why does a home console need to be limited to 45watts?
 

Cheerilee

Member
If he gets fired, he'll just go back to HAL Laboratory and work on Kirby games, presumably as a programmer....just like the good ol' days.

He's a developer at heart.
Why retire when he can sit back and work on things he enjoys? I'm sure the people At Nintendo are like family to him at this point. He can just chill with them.

People seem to underestimate the bond between Iwata and Nintendo. He's as much a part of Nintendo as Miyamoto.
A guy who had no interest in staying at Nintendo wouldn't wear a silly Luigi hat on camera. :')

Iwata is quite possibly my favorite CEO, not because of his business strategies, but because he's such a lovable guy!

I couldn't possibly see him anywhere else but Nintendo. It's his livelihood...his passion...his hobby. It's obvious it's much more than a job for him.
DdeHjOK.jpg


;_;

Iwata is not single-handedly responsible for deciding the power/specs of the hardware they release. Regardless, the Wii and DS both sold ridiculously well and the 3DS is looking like it may be on that path now as well. You can't really fault that strategy when it works. Besides, Nintendo's software output quality hasn't diminished. I don't see the specs being behind competitors as something that means we need to get rid of Iwata when it isn't even entirely his decision and everything else he does for the company is top notch.
Nope, but you can fault it double when it doesn't work. That's why Iwata is seeing so much heat.
 
No, but bizarrely their Wii U and 3DS software approach seems to have gone back to the Gamecube era. No longer are we seeing innovative new game-changers (Brain Training, Wii Sports, Wii Fit). We're back in the Gamecube era of Nintendo doing Nintendo games based on their safe IPs again, but with massive droughts in between.

It's like Nintendo learned nothing from GameCube, or Wii. NES and SNES were hugely popular (for their time) for a reason: great first party games and great third party support. They were never going to get the latter with the hardware they put out - it's one against two.

Now this make sense.

That's why Nintendo needs to do new, ambitious and big IPs targeting the core audience rather than casual IPs like was done with Wii.
 

pants

Member
Nintendo's obsession on low TPD is was confused me.

Why does a home console need to be limited to 45watts?

I can't recall 100% but I remember offhand that the PS4 is also going to be a low draw machine. A friend in Japan informs me low draw electronics are desirable in Nippon.
 

TDLink

Member
Nope, but you can fault it double when it doesn't work. That's why Iwata is seeing so much heat.

Sure but I think it is way too early to say it won't work with Wii U. We already saw it "fail" with 3DS but now that games are actually coming out the system is selling. Animal Crossing, Pokemon, and Monster Hunter 4 will only further increase that rate. Wii U is looking to get its system sellers even earlier (this winter/next year) than the 3DS did. I think it can turn around and ultimately be classified as a success. It isn't a guarantee, but the potential is there.
 

royalan

Member
Sure but I think it is way too early to say it won't work with Wii U. We already saw it "fail" with 3DS but now that games are actually coming out and the price was slashed by 80 bucks and Nintendo pulled teams off of other projects to rush out more games the system is selling. Animal Crossing, Pokemon, and Monster Hunter 4 will only further increase that rate. Wii U is looking to get its system sellers even earlier (this winter/next year) than the 3DS did. I think it can turn around and ultimately be classified as a success. It isn't a guarantee, but the potential is there.

Fixed your statement, because for some reason people keep wanting to disregard that Nintendo had basically pull a hail mary to get 3DS to sell. That's not the kind of shit you want to have to do with all of your hardware launches. In fact, the idea of a quick price drop is actually keeping some people from purchasing a Wii U now (I know I'm not buying one until that happens), thanks to what they HAD to do with the 3DS.
 

TDLink

Member
Fixed your statement, because for some reason people keep wanting to disregard that Nintendo had basically pull a hail mary to get 3DS to sell. That's not the kind of shit you want to have to do with all of your hardware launches. In fact, the idea of a quick price drop is actually keeping some people from purchasing a Wii U now (I know I'm not buying one until that happens), thanks to what they HAD to do with the 3DS.

You're right in that the price cut definitely helped. I think we will see it happen with Wii U the same way. But considering there was no worthwhile software for the system really before the price cut it is hard to say which affected the uptake in sales more. Looking at units being moved now on release of Fire Emblem, again on Monster Hunter, and it seems again on Luigi, I would say the software is probably more important. Price cuts definitely help though.
 
Sure but I think it is way too early to say it won't work with Wii U. We already saw it "fail" with 3DS but now that games are actually coming out the system is selling. Animal Crossing, Pokemon, and Monster Hunter 4 will only further increase that rate. Wii U is looking to get its system sellers even earlier (this winter/next year) than the 3DS did. I think it can turn around and ultimately be classified as a success. It isn't a guarantee, but the potential is there.

It's just that the people making the meaningful decisions at Nintendo have absolutely no idea about any market outside of Japan. When they have a worldwide success, it's only ever on the back of something that was successful in Japan, and just happened to have appeal elsewhere as well. Those system-sellers you mention fall squarely into that category, and it's an absurdly dangerous strategy when so much of their income comes from overseas.

I'm not saying they should convert a portion of their internal developers to making dudebro shooters - that would be the worst thing to do - but I feel the company needs to spread its wings. The European and US divisions of Nintendo need to be more than just brain-dead puppets of the cadre of out-of-touch execs in Kyoto; they need to be responsible for curating, funding and developing games and being in constant communication with publishers, developers and the press.
 

TDLink

Member
It's just that the people making the meaningful decisions at Nintendo have absolutely no idea about any market outside of Japan. When they have a worldwide success, it's only ever on the back of something that was successful in Japan, and just happened to have appeal elsewhere as well. Those system-sellers you mention fall squarely into that category, and it's an absurdly dangerous strategy when so much of their income comes from overseas.

I'm not saying they should convert a portion of their internal developers to making dudebro shooters - that would be the worst thing to do - but I feel the company needs to spread its wings. The European and US divisions of Nintendo need to be more than just brain-dead puppets of the cadre of out-of-touch execs in Kyoto; they need to be responsible for curating, funding and developing games and being in constant communication with publishers, developers and the press.

Nintendo continues to produce games that do better in the West than the East such as Zelda and Metroid as well. Luigi's Mansion 2 was just developed by a western developer. The last Donkey Kong game was by a western developer. I agree they could do more but it isn't like they are doing nothing. It's unlikely that they are ever going to make games like Call of Duty but I don't see a problem with that, especially when there are so many other companies providing that kind of game. I agree NoA/E could do more but it isn't so drastic a situation that Iwata needs to be fired because of it.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Mr. Miyamoto should absolutely be held accountable for several of the financial mishaps of the company. Miyamoto is a Managing Director on the Board of Directors, responsible for all the big decisions from business practice to hardware decisions. Then, secondly, Mr. Miyamoto is also the General Manager of the EAD Division, the larger of two internal software developers inside Nintendo of Japan. Miyamoto’s job was to coordinate and green-light / veto all those big software releases for the world wide 3DS and Wii U consoles. Both launches were terrible, and the 3DS has still been incapable of producing any new successful IPs or generating enough interest in the West. Nintendo is such a conservative company that they continue to present the image of Miyamoto being this genius game developer responsible for making the “awesome games” of today. Just look at how guided those Iwata Asks can be when Mr. Iwata spends half the interviews talking about Miyamoto’s inspiration and influence. The truth is the company should be pushing the EAD brand as the greatest developers on the planet, rather than a 60 year old executive who plays games as much as your grand father does. There are undoubtedly a lot of Miyamoto sympathizers who are going to push off any criticism, but it is seriously asinine to think a Board Director of a billion dollar company, who travels practically every month, has much time to devote as a game developer. All you seem to hear about are these clairvoyant decisions he makes, based on some philosophical whim rather than an empirical expertise of contemporary games. They need younger managers directing their hardware and software. Developers that aren’t so far removed from actually playing games.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
copying a post I made in the Yoichi Wada thread:
(The point of which wasn't to brag about past achievements, but rather to try and paint a picture of how Iwata reacts to change and mistakes in order to make it easier to estimate how he may perform this time)


Iwata is a genius when he has a clear vision and this is something he has demonstrated multiple times since becoming CEO.

The more interesting thing to observe is how Iwata deals with correcting mistakes or reacting to unexpected changes in the market. Here I believe his track record is more hit or miss:

Nintendo's first big project under his leadership was the GBA SP - I think we can all agree it was clearly a great move for the platform, and despite some oddities like removing the headphone jack, fixed almost everything that was wrong about the original GBA.

The Gamecube had already launched when he came into position, and while we don't have a complete picture of all the decisions he made during its lifetime, it's clear he wasn't able to save it. To be honest, I'm not even sure he presumed to have a plan to reverse its misfortunes. Some of his executive decisions during this time were: selling Rare, buying Monolith and other acquisitions which in the short term probably didn't have as much of an effect on the company as they did in the following generation.

NDS - while obviously remembered as the high point of his career so far, it didn't start out perfect either. The original design (aka DS phat) was clearly not ready for prime time, but Iwata corrected this misstep by releasing the Lite, which similar to the SP, I believe did wonders for the popularity of the hardware. In the DS's case it was probably what caused the turning point from a decent product to the beast it ended up being.

Wii - Started out amazingly well, with a clear message and huge appeal. The design was an immediate winner unlike the DS, and there was a pretty strong software lineup during its beginning. Demand far exceeded supply, and Iwata did his best in managing the production pipeline and anticipating the platform's continued popularity. Securing exclusivity for key Japanese franchises was also a major win in Nintendo's home territory but the western market proved to be an area where the company was less willing to take risks - possibly due to unfavorable exchange rates(?), but that is just a guess.
On the software side, there also seemed to be a loss of a clear direction after the first half of the generation.

Perhaps this was a result of external pressure due to the global economic crisis, but the previous vigor and clarity that seemingly defined Nintendo under his leadership were missing, or at least severely undermined.

3DS launched at a price that was way too high and without enough essential software, but contrary to popular belief it was still an improvement on the launch of the original DS in many aspects. People don't remember how depressing the DS was during its first year, with such releases as 'Yoshi's Touch & Go', Namco's 'Pac-Pix' and other small experimental titles like "Electroplankton", all severely lacking in content. Still the price was clearly a mistake and the market had changed considerably since the rise of app stores for smartphones. Consumers were much less patient than they were in 2004-5 so the lack of immediate essential software was more obvious. Iwata took drastic steps to cut the price for both hardware and software, which definitely helped the platform gain momentum. Once again, it's not clear if the high price and slower adoption in the west were a result of Nintendo being incapable or rather unwilling to take bigger risks outside their homeland, as the exchange rate was still highly unfavorable for them.

Wii U so far continues to suffer from the same problems as 3DS, launching at a price that is too high for immediate mass market appeal, and lacking essential software. Expectations for a platform launch have changed considerably and Nintendo has not been able to keep up. However the Wii U's future isn't certain yet, especially since for the first time in years the Yen's exchange rate is finally returning to more favorable values.

What seems to be certain however is that as time goes by, launching a new platform and bringing it the point where it is mature enough to be valuable to a wide range of consumers has become more difficult for Nintendo - i.e. it takes more time than it used to. This is actually true as far back as the original DS, and is probably a consequence of Nintendo emphasizing new, previously unproven forms of gameplay and presentation, rather than pushing for more of the same.
 

Cheerilee

Member
As I already said in an earlier post, the hardware power being less than the competitors is a strategy that has worked for them just about 3 times in a row now. You can't really fault it.
Here's a pessimist's take on Iwata's record.

Iwata didn't screw up the DS, but Nintendo's handheld line (a historically powerful safety net) is dying. Despite what Iwata initially said about the DS being a third pillar for Nintendo to rely on, Japanese data showed that people clearly considered it to be another step in the GameBoy line, and when the DS failed to get traction in America, Iwata proved that data right by killing the GBA before it's time, which gave the DS exactly the right push it needed. Iwata can't be credited for the success of the DS (there were also suggestions that it wasn't "pure Iwata", and Yamauchi had a late hand in it's development), he just didn't screw it up. But now the 3DS is saddled with a costly special feature that some people don't want, so customers remove that from the equation and buy cheap hardware at a cheap price, and the special feature is costing Nintendo money.

The Wii was an amazing success. But Iwata is a one-hit wonder. The Wii U has a costly special feature nobody wants, which is costing Nintendo even more and is even less attractive than the 3DS's special feature, and this failure threatens to burn Iwata's only real success to the ground. While Nintendo's only safety net isn't working.
 

Keyouta

Junior Member
A few people have been wondering about a Nintendo Direct this month, but what suggests that we'll see one in March?

Isn't is usually 2 months between the directs? The last real one we had was in February, so I think we'll be getting one in April.

As for Iwata, I also think that if he were to be fired or if he resigned, he'd continue to work there as a game programmer or something of similar nature.


Good point. I very much believe that Miyamoto is to blame for some of the decisions in the company, and that he is evangelized too much. Younger people should be working on software and hardware too.
 

Meelow

Banned
The thing is, some people think if Iwata resigns than the new president will be much more hardware powered focused, some people feel if Nintendo gets a new president than the Wii U 2 will be on par spec wise with PS5 and Xbox 1080.

But that won't happen because it seems very likely the Wii U 2 will release first again while PS5 and X1080 will be a year later, unless Steambox is a full console trying to attack Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft than the Wii U 2 would most likely be more powerful than the Steambox 2 if released at the same time.
 
Nintendo continues to produce games that do better in the West than the East such as Zelda and Metroid as well. Luigi's Mansion 2 was just developed by a western developer. The last Donkey Kong game was by a western developer. I agree they could do more but it isn't like they are doing nothing. It's unlikely that they are ever going to make games like Call of Duty but I don't see a problem with that, especially when there are so many other companies providing that kind of game. I agree NoA/E could do more but it isn't so drastic a situation that Iwata needs to be fired because of it.

I don't deny that some Nintendo games are popular outside Japan, it just feels like luck rather than judgement when it happens!

And I don't deny that there's a handful of non-Japanese developers that Nintendo works with, but it's pretty much irrelevant, as they're always under the watchful eye of NOJ, and end up making games practically indistinguishable from Nintendo's in-house developers. Which is good in the sense that they're always going to be quality titles, but is bad is that they offer no additional diversity whatsoever to Nintendo's lineup.

Of course, I don't think Nintendo are ever going to be the ones responsible for the next Call of Duty (although Rare did make Goldeneye, which was very much the CoD of its day), but that makes it all the more important to maintain close relationships with third-parties, so when one of them does make the next CoD, it'll be available on a Nintendo platform.
 

royalan

Member
It's just that the people making the meaningful decisions at Nintendo have absolutely no idea about any market outside of Japan. When they have a worldwide success, it's only ever on the back of something that was successful in Japan, and just happened to have appeal elsewhere as well. Those system-sellers you mention fall squarely into that category, and it's an absurdly dangerous strategy when so much of their income comes from overseas.

I'm not saying they should convert a portion of their internal developers to making dudebro shooters - that would be the worst thing to do - but I feel the company needs to spread its wings. The European and US divisions of Nintendo need to be more than just brain-dead puppets of the cadre of out-of-touch execs in Kyoto; they need to be responsible for curating, funding and developing games and being in constant communication with publishers, developers and the press.

A-fucking-men.

I mean, and they have the perfect example in their own backyard. Again, just look at Sony. When SCEJ drove off a cliff at the start of this gen, it was SCEA and SCEE's ability to latch onto the pulse of the exploding Western market and ultimately keep the PS3 a viable console with amazing first party software that kept that console afloat while SCEJ struggled to find its legs (still hasn't really found them, imo).

As it stands now, despite western development becoming more and more important to console gaming NOA and NOE are absolutely incapable of doing anything like this for Nintendo because they've been made to be practically useless outside of being glorified translators.
 
The Wii U has hardly any software. That needs to come first before the system really starts to move. The same thing happened with 3DS. Now that software is finally deluging the system units are being purchased. This winter when Zelda/Mario Kart/Whatever are out will be when the system will truly begin to be tested.

As I already said in an earlier post, the hardware power being less than the competitors is a strategy that has worked for them just about 3 times in a row now. You can't really fault it.

Wha- what? What is this? Do you even know what you're saying? Hey, here's an idea. How about Nintendo would have released the system LATER when all those amazing games you're talking about are getting released. Why would someone release a console and then release the games a year later?

And what do you mean three times in a row? Are you saying that the Gamecube was weaker than its competition? Seriously?
 

Gorillaz

Member
A-fucking-men.

I mean, and they have the perfect example in their own backyard. Again, just look at Sony. When SCEJ drove off a cliff at the start of this gen, it was SCEA and SCEE's ability to latch onto the pulse of the exploding Western and ultimately keep the PS3 a viable console with amazing first party software that kept that console afloat while SCEJ struggled to find its legs (still hasn't really found them, imo).

As it stands now, despite western development becoming more and more important to console gaming NOA and NOE are absolutely incapable of doing anything like this for Nintendo because they've been made to be practically useless outside of being glorified translators.

It really did hit me but SCEA and SEE basically picked up the slack of the ps3. SCEJ seriously just imploded.

Same thing is happening right now within Nintendo. Think it's about time they gave NoA some more breathing room as well.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Wha- what? What is this? Do you even know what you're saying? Hey, here's an idea. How about Nintendo would have released the system LATER when all those amazing games you're talking about are getting released. Why would someone release a console and then release the games a year later?

Christmas market. One year competition head start. Two launch games that people were relatively excited for. Four very desirable launch window games of which two are currently M.I.A., one is no longer exclusive and the fourth just released.

It wasn't a bad idea. It just backfired when that last point ended up biting them in the ass when they couldn't meet their approximate deadlines, and the Wii brand clearly didn't end up being strong enough to sustain what was meant to be a steady burn.
 

TDLink

Member
Wha- what? What is this? Do you even know what you're saying? Hey, here's an idea. How about Nintendo would have released the system LATER when all those amazing games you're talking about are getting released. Why would someone release a console and then release the games a year later?

And what do you mean three times in a row? Are you saying that the Gamecube was weaker than its competition? Seriously?


See:


Christmas market. One year competition head start. Two launch games that people were relatively excited for. Four very desirable launch window games of which two are currently M.I.A., one is no longer exclusive and the fourth just released.

It wasn't a bad idea. It just backfired when that last point ended up biting them in the ass when they couldn't meet their approximate deadlines, and the Wii brand clearly didn't end up being strong enough to sustain what was meant to be a steady burn.

That being said, I do think both systems would have benefited by waiting for more software to be completed or almost completed before launching. 3DS definitely had more wiggle room to do this than Wii U did though considering the competition.

By 3 in a row I meant DS, Wii, 3DS. 3 systems weaker than the competition yet successful in a row. Wii U it's too early to say. I was not saying Gamecube had weak hardware at all.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Mr. Miyamoto should absolutely be held accountable for several of the financial mishaps of the company. Miyamoto is a Managing Director on the Board of Directors, responsible for all the big decisions from business practice to hardware decisions. Then, secondly, Mr. Miyamoto is also the General Manager of the EAD Division, the larger of two internal software developers inside Nintendo of Japan. Miyamoto’s job was to coordinate and green-light / veto all those big software releases for the world wide 3DS and Wii U consoles. Both launches were terrible, and the 3DS has still been incapable of producing any new successful IPs or generating enough interest in the West. Nintendo is such a conservative company that they continue to present the image of Miyamoto being this genius game developer responsible for making the “awesome games” of today. Just look at how guided those Iwata Asks can be when Mr. Iwata spends half the interviews talking about Miyamoto’s inspiration and influence. The truth is the company should be pushing the EAD brand as the greatest developers on the planet, rather than a 60 year old executive who plays games as much as your grand father does. There are undoubtedly a lot of Miyamoto sympathizers who are going to push off any criticism, but it is seriously asinine to think a Board Director of a billion dollar company, who travels practically every month, has much time to devote as a game developer. All you seem to hear about are these clairvoyant decisions he makes, based on some philosophical whim rather than an empirical expertise of contemporary games. They need younger managers directing their hardware and software. Developers that aren’t so far removed from actually playing games.

Real talk and agreed, the statements he made about games like Steel Diver really proved to me that he is kinda out of touch.
 
It really did hit me but SCEA and SEE basically picked up the slack of the ps3. SCEJ seriously just imploded.

Same thing is happening right now within Nintendo. Think it's about time they gave NoA some more breathing room as well.


The last thing we need is Reggie deciding not to bring over the next fire emblem in order to promote the next dance/sing party clone developed by NoA.
 

royalan

Member
It really did hit me but SCEA and SEE basically picked up the slack of the ps3. SCEJ seriously just imploded.

Same thing is happening right now within Nintendo. Think it's about time they gave NoA some more breathing room as well.

Exactly, and the terrifying thing is the same thing COULDN'T happen with Nintendo. Their regional divisions have absolutely zip/zero/zilch of the kind of power SCEA and SEE needed to make the kind of moves they did.

Hell, I don't think NOA even has a say over at Retro, Nintendo's biggest (only?) major western development studio! Shit's crazy!
 

Gorillaz

Member
The last thing we need is Reggie deciding not to bring over the next fire emblem in order to promote the next dance/sing party clone developed by NoA.
While I know your joking/serious about party/dance games why can't NoA or NoE have any say or IP to bring to the table? I'm pretty sure they have some good ideas and new characters to add to the Nintendo family. Why is NoJ controlling all of it. It shoudn't take localization to save the day everytime.

Exactly, and the terrifying thing is the same thing COULDN'T happen with Nintendo. Their regional divisions have absolutely zip/zero/zilch of the kind of power SCEA and SEE needed to make the kind of moves they did.

Hell, I don't think NOA even has a say over at Retro, Nintendo's biggest (only?) major western development studio! Shit's crazy!

And while we are at it why don't NoA have some sort of say so in Retro? Seriously?
 

TDLink

Member
Mr. Miyamoto should absolutely be held accountable for several of the financial mishaps of the company. Miyamoto is a Managing Director on the Board of Directors, responsible for all the big decisions from business practice to hardware decisions. Then, secondly, Mr. Miyamoto is also the General Manager of the EAD Division, the larger of two internal software developers inside Nintendo of Japan. Miyamoto’s job was to coordinate and green-light / veto all those big software releases for the world wide 3DS and Wii U consoles. Both launches were terrible, and the 3DS has still been incapable of producing any new successful IPs or generating enough interest in the West. Nintendo is such a conservative company that they continue to present the image of Miyamoto being this genius game developer responsible for making the “awesome games” of today. Just look at how guided those Iwata Asks can be when Mr. Iwata spends half the interviews talking about Miyamoto’s inspiration and influence. The truth is the company should be pushing the EAD brand as the greatest developers on the planet, rather than a 60 year old executive who plays games as much as your grand father does. There are undoubtedly a lot of Miyamoto sympathizers who are going to push off any criticism, but it is seriously asinine to think a Board Director of a billion dollar company, who travels practically every month, has much time to devote as a game developer. All you seem to hear about are these clairvoyant decisions he makes, based on some philosophical whim rather than an empirical expertise of contemporary games. They need younger managers directing their hardware and software. Developers that aren’t so far removed from actually playing games.

Completely agreed. However, I do think plenty of devs younger than Miyamoto are working hard over there it is just that no one knows most of them and Miyamoto still has the final say on a lot of things.

Here's a pessimist's take on Iwata's record.

Iwata didn't screw up the DS, but Nintendo's handheld line (a historically powerful safety net) is dying. Despite what Iwata initially said about the DS being a third pillar for Nintendo to rely on, Japanese data showed that people clearly considered it to be another step in the GameBoy line, and when the DS failed to get traction in America, Iwata proved that data right by killing the GBA before it's time, which gave the DS exactly the right push it needed. Iwata can't be credited for the success of the DS (there were also suggestions that it wasn't "pure Iwata", and Yamauchi had a late hand in it's development), he just didn't screw it up. But now the 3DS is saddled with a costly special feature that some people don't want, so customers remove that from the equation and buy cheap hardware at a cheap price, and the special feature is costing Nintendo money.

The Wii was an amazing success. But Iwata is a one-hit wonder. The Wii U has a costly special feature nobody wants, which is costing Nintendo even more and is even less attractive than the 3DS's special feature, and this failure threatens to burn Iwata's only real success to the ground. While Nintendo's only safety net isn't working.

I never believed the third pillar talk and I really think it was just that: all talk. Why else would they put a GBA slot on the DS if they didn't want it to replace it? The DS did everything the GBA could and more other than GBC support. It was also clearly more capable spec-wise. I think the DS's success was definitely largely due to Iwata and his strategies. The Wii was not his only success. 3DS is also shaping up just fine despite the rocky start.

Exactly, and the terrifying thing is the same thing COULDN'T happen with Nintendo. Their regional divisions have absolutely zip/zero/zilch of the kind of power SCEA and SEE needed to make the kind of moves they did.

Hell, I don't think NOA even has a say over at Retro, Nintendo's biggest (only?) major western development studio! Shit's crazy!

Nintendo has NST in addition to Retro over here in the states. They also have close relations with independent Western studios Monster Games and Next Level Games (so much so that they are basically Nintendo studios at this point).

Anyways, Nintendo's Japanese studios and output is much stronger now than SCEJ was at that time (and really even still is today).
 
Christmas market. One year competition head start. Two launch games that people were relatively excited for. Four very desirable launch window games of which two are currently M.I.A., one is no longer exclusive and the fourth just released.

It wasn't a bad idea. It just backfired when that last point ended up biting them in the ass when they couldn't meet their approximate deadlines, and the Wii brand clearly didn't end up being strong enough to sustain what was meant to be a steady burn.

Disagreed. It WAS a bad idea. Out of curiosity -- you never really stated an answer to this -- do you think the Wii U should have been launched when it did or do you think it should have been launched later?

See:

That being said, I do think both systems would have benefited by waiting for more software to be completed or almost completed before launching. 3DS definitely had more wiggle room to do this than Wii U did though considering the competition.

By 3 in a row I meant DS, Wii, 3DS. 3 systems weaker than the competition yet successful in a row. Wii U it's too early to say. I was not saying Gamecube had weak hardware at all.

Are you too lazy to write your own opinion that you just quote someone else?

In any case, sure, DS, Wii and 3DS are all weaker than the competition, but that's not exactly the selling point. In fact, the marketing for the Wii U says "amazing graphics". True, having weaker hardware means cheaper hardware, and that was one of the pros of the Wii: it was cheap. But the selling point were the games and the motion controls, which were brand new for their time. Not the fact that it had weak hardware.

EDIT: And yeah, comparing the handheld market with the console market is quite odd anyway, so it was only natural that I assumed you meant Gamecube, Wii and Wii U.
 

SMD

Member
I think it's time to accept that Iwata is NOT a "very good president and CEO." At least, not anymore. You don't get an indefinite fuck-up pass because of some successful choices you made almost a decade ago, especially when those successes are followed with back-to-back fuck-ups that almost RIVAL the successes.

Personally, I'm calling for Iwata's blood because, despite how "likable" he is, he just hasn't been any good for Nintendo lately. The gaming industry is changing more rapidly than ever, and now it's facing competition at even more fronts than before. I wouldn't want someone with ZERO understanding of what makes Nintendo special to take over; but at this point Nintendo NEEDS someone with an understanding of where the gaming industry is right now, where it's going, and exactly how to get Nintendo there. That man is no longer Iwata. To think otherwise is just fan delusion at this point.

And, as someone else has pointed out, if Nintendo hasn't been cultivating fresh young faces with vision who could serve as potential replacements and only Iwata is "capable" of running the company, that's not a good thing. That means that Nintendo's chain of command is more screwed than anyone realized.

What does this mean? Why are you under the impression that Iwata doesn't know where the gaming industry is now and where it's headed? He said before that the policy of dropping prices and trying to outdo each other is a terrible one and that iOS needs to be viewed as a separate ecosystem otherwise the industry will head down the toilet. And what's proved him wrong? Nintendo are one of the few publishers whose games hold their value because people know that waiting for a price drop isn't going to happen plus their titles are compelling enough to be attractive.

He also knows that the traditional gaming market isn't big enough hence trying to attract people from outside the 'core' sector. You can argue that Nintendo haven't got the games to back their home console up but if Sony and Microsoft similarly struggle at launch, is it down to Iwata or down to economic factors?

You say he has back to back fuck ups but then you have to give him how Nintendo turned the 3DS around. It literally suffered from the same problems the Wii U has now and given that work on the Wii U was well under way while the 3DS floundered, you could argue that the lead time in changing the root cause was too long to change before launch.

You can't really have it both ways. If he's the man behind the success of the Wii and DS, as well as turning around the fortunes of the 3DS then you ought to feel like he can be the man to turn the Wii U around as well.

I like Iwata and I think a lot of the problems are being masked by the longevity of the PS360. I'm actually quite worried about the next gen because people don't seem to realise that no matter how brilliant the new consoles are, £400+ is going to be a hell of a price to convince people to upgrade.
 
Mr. Miyamoto should absolutely be held accountable for several of the financial mishaps of the company. Miyamoto is a Managing Director on the Board of Directors, responsible for all the big decisions from business practice to hardware decisions. Then, secondly, Mr. Miyamoto is also the General Manager of the EAD Division, the larger of two internal software developers inside Nintendo of Japan. Miyamoto’s job was to coordinate and green-light / veto all those big software releases for the world wide 3DS and Wii U consoles. Both launches were terrible, and the 3DS has still been incapable of producing any new successful IPs or generating enough interest in the West. Nintendo is such a conservative company that they continue to present the image of Miyamoto being this genius game developer responsible for making the “awesome games” of today. Just look at how guided those Iwata Asks can be when Mr. Iwata spends half the interviews talking about Miyamoto’s inspiration and influence. The truth is the company should be pushing the EAD brand as the greatest developers on the planet, rather than a 60 year old executive who plays games as much as your grand father does. There are undoubtedly a lot of Miyamoto sympathizers who are going to push off any criticism, but it is seriously asinine to think a Board Director of a billion dollar company, who travels practically every month, has much time to devote as a game developer. All you seem to hear about are these clairvoyant decisions he makes, based on some philosophical whim rather than an empirical expertise of contemporary games. They need younger managers directing their hardware and software. Developers that aren’t so far removed from actually playing games.

Miyamoto has been out of touch for quite a long time. After the N64, when he became General Manager, he went downhill completely. When he decided to change the aesthetics from Zelda to cel-shading, fooling the fans and destroying the hype for the Spaceworld 2001 Zelda demo, this revealed Miyamoto began to lost his touch with reality. Sorry, Wind Waker fans, I know you love this game so much, but strategically speaking, was a bad move.

He's living in the shadow of his past and using it to promote itself and keep the spotlight. He didn't manage to follow the changes of the gaming industry and try to resist those changes in order to keep it on a way he would still be king, but we aren't in the 80's and 90's anymore, so Miyamoto became stucked in the past.

He needs to retire.
 
It's just that the people making the meaningful decisions at Nintendo have absolutely no idea about any market outside of Japan. When they have a worldwide success, it's only ever on the back of something that was successful in Japan, and just happened to have appeal elsewhere as well. Those system-sellers you mention fall squarely into that category, and it's an absurdly dangerous strategy when so much of their income comes from overseas.

I'm not saying they should convert a portion of their internal developers to making dudebro shooters - that would be the worst thing to do - but I feel the company needs to spread its wings. The European and US divisions of Nintendo need to be more than just brain-dead puppets of the cadre of out-of-touch execs in Kyoto; they need to be responsible for curating, funding and developing games and being in constant communication with publishers, developers and the press.

Completely, totally nailed it. NCL's obvious Japan-centrism (along with their less offensive but still evident Not Invented Here approach to online functionality), is a goddamn disease, and it needs to be cut out of the company.

Nintendo continues to produce games that do better in the West than the East such as Zelda and Metroid as well. Luigi's Mansion 2 was just developed by a western developer. The last Donkey Kong game was by a western developer. I agree they could do more but it isn't like they are doing nothing. It's unlikely that they are ever going to make games like Call of Duty but I don't see a problem with that, especially when there are so many other companies providing that kind of game. I agree NoA/E could do more but it isn't so drastic a situation that Iwata needs to be fired because of it.

They don't just need quality Western-developed games; to stay relevant worldwide, they need quality Western-developed games that have appeal beyond the traditional Nintendo audience. Maybe Retro's next title will fall into that category, but they arguably haven't published a title along those lines since Geist or (maaaaaybe) BWii, and we know that they cancelled at least three first-party Wii titles in that category (Knight Wars, Project HAMMER, Sphear).
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Completely agreed. However, I do think plenty of devs younger than Miyamoto are working hard over there it is just that no one knows most of them and Miyamoto still has the final say on a lot of things.

Well there are about 900 developers working inside of Nintendo needless to say. The point is they should give up the idea of publicizing the Miyamoto name, and instead push the EAD brand. Look at how well it has worked for Rockstar, Naughty Dog, etc.

Nintendo has NST in addition to Retro over here in the states. They also have close relations with independent Western studios Monster Games and Next Level Games (so much so that they are basically Nintendo studios at this point).

The problem that we discussed with Nintendo's Western studios, is they operate under a monotheist deity. Meaning they are basically using those studios as Japanese-B teams to develop Nintendo IP sequels that they don't consider as lucratively important as NSMB or Animal Crossing. Imagine if SONY's SCEW Management only allowed Naughty Dog and Santa Monica Studio to develop Ape Escape and Jumping Flash sequels.

Anyways, Nintendo's Japanese studios and output is much stronger now than SCEJ was at that time (and really even still is today).

But Nintendo is using their highest paid and most talented developers in Japan, to develop the same damn games! They aren't allowing that talent to pursue new ideas with significant muscle. Financially Nintendo needs to create NSMB and Animal Crossing, but they also have to figure out a way to create other products.

Miyamoto has been out of touch for quite a long time. After the N64, when he became General Manager, he went downhill completely. When he decided to change the aesthetics from Zelda to cel-shading, fooling the fans and destroying the hype for the Spaceworld 2001 Zelda demo, this revealed Miyamoto began to lost his touch with reality. Sorry, Wind Waker fans, I know you love this game so much, but strategically speaking, was a bad move.

He has been General Manager of EAD since like 1987. With Wind Waker, I think part of the reason is Nintendo wanted to skimp on the development time necessary to create "realistic graphics". It absolutely hurt the GameCube brand though.
 

SMD

Member
Miyamoto has been out of touch for quite a long time. After the N64, when he became General Manager, he went downhill completely. When he decided to change the aesthetics from Zelda to cel-shading, fooling the fans and destroying the hype for the Spaceworld 2001 Zelda demo, this revealed Miyamoto began to lost his touch with reality. Sorry, Wind Waker fans, I know you love this game so much, but strategically speaking, was a bad move.

He's living in the shadow of his past and using it to promote itself and keep the spotlight. He didn't manage to follow the changes of the gaming industry and try to resist those changes in order to keep it on a way he would still be king, but we aren't in the 80's and 90's anymore, so Miyamoto became stucked in the past.

He needs to retire.

What?

Did you see the Iwata Asks with Next Level Games regarding Luigi's Mansion 2?
 
When he decided to change the aesthetics from Zelda to cel-shading, fooling the fans and destroying the hype for the Spaceworld 2001 Zelda demo, this revealed Miyamoto began to lost his touch with reality. Sorry, Wind Waker fans, I know you love this game so much, but strategically speaking, was a bad move.

He needs to retire.

Um, no, you clearly need to get over something that happened 12 years ago. The way people reacted to that was embarrassing in retrospect.
 

Shion

Member
No, but bizarrely their Wii U and 3DS software approach seems to have gone back to the Gamecube era. No longer are we seeing innovative new game-changers (Brain Training, Wii Sports, Wii Fit). We're back in the Gamecube era of Nintendo doing Nintendo games based on their safe IPs again, but with massive droughts in between.

It's like Nintendo learned nothing from GameCube, or Wii. NES and SNES were hugely popular (for their time) for a reason: great first party games and great third party support. They were never going to get the latter with the hardware they put out - it's one against two.
Software was what I was referring to in my previous post about Iwata.

Nintendo's software approach and philosophy saw drastic changes under Iwata's leadership.

Their new hardware approach, that so many people love to emphasize on, was just the inevitable result of their new software model.

You don't need powerful hardware to make games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, Brain Training, Nintendoland etc. You don't need powerful hardware when you have no intention in creating new, ambitious, core games.

Nintendo was pushing the hardware when they were an ambitious developer that had a more core-centric approach.

When you want to create an ambitious game like Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time, then, you need the hardware to do so. But when you don't have such intentions anymore, then, hardware becomes irrelevant.

The pre-Iwata era Nintendo produced ambitious, progressive, games that tried to make an impact by pushing both game design and technology (and, of course, they had a more core-centric approach).

The Iwata-era Nintendo focuses on cheap, casualized little games and their output is unambitious, conservative and, instead of pushing actual game design and technology, puts too much emphasis on gimmicks.

In my opinion, Zelda is a prime example of how Nintendo's modern philosophy and lack of ambition is hurting their output.
 
Hopefully the next president will release the stranglehold on NOA and PAL leaders from a marketing standpoint. There's clearly a disconnect in cultures and maybe handhelds would do better in other territories outside of Japan if NOA and PAL marketers had more freedom without Nintendo of Japan's approval.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Disagreed. It WAS a bad idea. Out of curiosity -- you never really stated an answer to this -- do you think the Wii U should have been launched when it did or do you think it should have been launched later?

I didn't give you an answer to that question because it wasn't aimed at me, but if you ask me there was no "sweetspot" of launching the Wii U. The only important thing however, was putting it out at a time when the Christmas market was high to maximize sales and performance, which is almost universally the most effective period to launch a console ever.

Should it have been launched later? I'd have to go with a "no" more than "yes", because that means there's ample time for the other console makers to butt in on it's head start on the market, and as it looks right now, Durango and PS4 will be cannibalizing each other come this holiday season. Having an x-factor in that isn't going to help it's performance, especially judging from what we've had going so far in terms of numbers. As I said, we had two great games that had mild hype behind them on launch, so what did they have to lose? Nothing really, until those development problems for the current upcoming games happened which postponed the launch window.

At the same time, for that reason it should most likely have launched earlier to benefit from it's own generation switch while the Wii was trailing in it's massive software drought. But that would have given developers even less time to finish their games, so what we have now was probably the best compromise as far as just "releasing" the console goes.

Whether it was a bad idea or not, it was a sound strategy on paper because it stood to reason that Nintendo at least had a plan with the Wii U that just didn't fell through, and if Iwata is that hellbent on getting 100 billion by the end of this year, the 3DS shouldering the Wii U is not going to be enough even if it's getting Pokemon and Animal Crossing this year.
 
The Gamecube had already launched when he came into position, and while we don't have a complete picture of all the decisions he made during its lifetime, it's clear he wasn't able to save it. To be honest, I'm not even sure he presumed to have a plan to reverse its misfortunes. Some of his executive decisions during this time were: selling Rare, buying Monolith and other acquisitions which in the short term probably didn't have as much of an effect on the company as they did in the following generation.

Iwata was actually in charge of the development of the GameCube prior to being named CEO by Yamauchi. One of the reasons Iwata was picked as CEO was because Yamauchi was so impressed with the engineering and design work that Iwata and his team exhibited in creating the GameCube. I don't remember his exact title within the company at the time, but if you go back to interviews from several years ago, Iwata is actually quite proud of the GameCube, despite the low install base.

In fact, one of the only reasons Nintendo cites for the system's low install base was that they missed an opportunity to cut the price. They believe had they done it sooner, GameCube may have ended up being more successful. It's a lesson Iwata applied to the 3DS during it's first six months on the market. They knew they couldn't make the same mistake twice.
 
Nintendo's software approach and philosophy saw drastic changes under Iwata's leadership.
You don't need powerful hardware to make games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, Brain Training, Nintendoland etc. You don't need powerful hardware when you have no intention in creating new, ambitious, core games.

Nintendo was pushing the hardware when they were an ambitious developer that had a more core-centric approach.

When you want to create an ambitious game like Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time, then, you need the hardware to do so. But when you don't have such intentions anymore, then, hardware becomes irrelevant.

The pre-Iwata era Nintendo produced ambitious, progressive, games that tried to make an impact by pushing both game design and technology (and, of course, they had a more core-centric approach).

The Iwata-era Nintendo focuses on cheap, casualized little games and their output is unambitious, conservative and, instead of pushing actual game design and technology, puts too much emphasis on gimmicks.

In my opinion, Zelda is a prime example of how modern Nintendo's philosophy and lack of ambition is hurting their output.

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