TreasureHunterG
Banned
Everything he said it's true.
Only delusional Nintendo (Iwata?) fanboys can say otherwise.
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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Everything he said it's true.
Only delusional Nintendo (Iwata?) fanboys can say otherwise.
metalslimer
Member
A new president is needed but people are insane if they think they will be getting nothing but AAA blockbusters from Nintendo. If anything they will start creating more social games and release more F2P stuff. The videgame market is a fucking awful market to be in, and we will only see the decline of the blockbuster going forward.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Maybe, but if you're saying that cutting edge hardware automatically equals Ocarina of Time level games, and can only be achieved on said hardware, you're pretty off the mark. Galaxy happened on hardware that could have come out in 2003. It was still amazing.
Screamapillar
Member
I don't disagree with you about their software output over the last six-to-eight years, but it's also true that under the philosophy of pushing graphics and core games like Mario and Zelda and catering their business only to hardcore gamers, their market share precipitously dropped from generation-to-generation. I mean SNES had, what, 60 million? N64 only barely sold over 30 million. GameCube didn't even hit 24 million. Iwata and his management philosophy increased their market share from the lows of the GameCube to the incredible highs of the Wii/DS era. It was an inevitable bubble that was destined to burst, sure, but it was still the only reason Nintendo made any money the last seven years.
Of course and not only him.
I believe that Iwata will not step down unless he want to.
Yamauchi well know that fortunes in the videogames market rapidly changes and the CEO must endure under good and bad times.
Identity is a much pressing concern.
wtf... You're going meltdown on Celda... NOW?
On the western development thing, I definitely think that it would at least be nice for Nintendo to enter closer partnerships with western devs and publishers, similar to what they've been doing with Platinum, Sega, Namco, and Capcom over the course of the last decade. I keep wondering whey they don't arrange these plans to heavily support games from EA, Ubisoft (well Ubisoft mostly came forward on that), or Take-Two. Bagging Monster Hunter for the 3DS was kind of a master stroke as far as the Japanese handheld market is concerned. Why haven't they tried something similar overseas?
I'm starting to think it's because they just aren't as aware. In the Iwata asks segments, Iwata seems to be very much aware of big games from other Japanese publishers. He knows their value which I imagine informs his business decisions. I don't think anyone from internal NCL has shown the same knowledge of western games outside of a handful of big PC games like SimCity.
Maybe I haven't read enough comments from guys like Iwata and Miyamoto. If that ignorance is there though, it's the same ignorance that probably allowed western console game development to overtake Japan in the first place. Nintendo's own internal development remains impeccable, but it can't support a whole game platform on its own, nor can it singlehandedly capture worldwide audiences.
I don't think so either. Packaging and marketing somewhat old technology has been a major part of Nintendo's strategy ever since they've been in the video game business. It comes all the way from Gunpei Yokoi. Sure they've made up-to-par hardware in the past, but it's never been some kind of sacred cow for them to do so.
Furthermore, we still have to take into account how Nintendo has to behave when it comes to selling hardware compared to Sony or Microsoft. Unlike them, Nintendo can't afford to be a loss leader.
I'm starting to think it's because they just aren't as aware. In the Iwata asks segments, Iwata seems to be very much aware of big games from other Japanese publishers. He knows their value which I imagine informs his business decisions. I don't think anyone from internal NCL has shown the same knowledge of western games outside of a handful of big PC games like SimCity.
Maybe I haven't read enough comments from guys like Iwata and Miyamoto. If that ignorance is there though, it's the same ignorance that probably allowed western console game development to overtake Japan in the first place. Nintendo's own internal development remains impeccable, but it can't support a whole game platform on its own, nor can it singlehandedly capture worldwide audiences.
I don't think so either. Packaging and marketing somewhat old technology has been a major part of Nintendo's strategy ever since they've been in the video game business. It comes all the way from Gunpei Yokoi. Sure they've made up-to-par hardware in the past, but it's never been some kind of sacred cow for them to do so.
Furthermore, we still have to take into account how Nintendo has to behave when it comes to selling hardware compared to Sony or Microsoft. Unlike them, Nintendo can't afford to be a loss leader.
metalslimer
Member
Exactly and he should want someone that can adapt to changing conditions instead of having years to make a good launch and completely fail at almost every level.
General rule is unveiling a console trumps all. Nintendo had 2 E3s in the spotlight. No matter what they show they will be overshadowed.
SolarPowered
Member
This "realistic" Zelda would have come out on the purple lunchbox with a handle and a less friendly online solution than the Xbox. Nintendo's hardware and marketing was far more of a problem than a singular Zelda.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Then you missed his point completely. He said when your focus is to make games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Nintendo Land and Wii Music, you don't need to have strong hardware to achieve that. Sorry, but Mario Galaxy and Xenoblade alone can't hide the direction Iwata chose Nintendo to follow.
But the change of aesthetics from Zelda GCN to a cel-shading visual DID made many people to skip the GCN and enforced the "Nintendo is kiddy" stereotype even further, which was already being spreaded by Sony fanboys. All the hype and expectation for a true Ocarina of Time sequel was destroyed after the change of aesthetics. Miyamoto being the General Manager had responsability for this decision and this had a negative impact of GameCube, and even Nintendo, reception in the core market.
What? Hahahahaha oh man, you have no idea what you are talking about do you?
Actually is not, Nintendo always had this balance with their products, it is a line of thinking from Gunpei Yokoi. You don't need cutting edge technology, but a solid techonolgy that you understand everything about, and with it create an innovative device. This is in Nintendo DNA, you are missing the point because you believed in market words from the 90s.
metalslimer
Member
Miyamoto is out of touch but what a terrible argument lol
Screamapillar
Member
Yet, Iwata is just as responsible for green-lighting expensive, ambitious games like Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy 2, and Bayonetta 2 as he is for approving the development of Brain Age or Wii Fit. It's not as if Iwata is actively seeking to crush franchise sequels and only wants Nintendo to create new, casual-friendly IPs. He understands the need for both, as consoles aren't very successful without catering to hardcore gamers as well as branching out to attract casual gamers. I would say Iwata is actually a fairly remarkable CEO in that regard.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
What? Are you saying changing Zelda aesthetics was a clever move?
This works for the portable market but not for the console market. Nintendo can be as low tech as they want in the portables, but this direction for consoles started with Iwata. Nintendo wasn't about that before him.
It's rather funny that Nintendo's expansion with casual products is used as a reason to undermine the amount of AAA software that the Wii actually provided, with some being the best they've ever made. From IPs like Mario, Metroid Prime, Donkey Kong, Punch-Out and Rhythm Heaven reaching their absolute peaks, there was a great mix between "hardcore" and "casual".
There wasn't a significantly less amount of triple A games with worse quality than that on the Gamecube, it's just a placebo because Gamecube had more of hardcore Nintendo IPs on it that didn't get an entry in the seventh gen.
There wasn't a significantly less amount of triple A games with worse quality than that on the Gamecube, it's just a placebo because Gamecube had more of hardcore Nintendo IPs on it that didn't get an entry in the seventh gen.
Let's be real here: Did online really matter that much back then? What like, 10 percent of console gamers played games online during that generation?
Again, I need to reiterate that if Nintendo were to go the mega hardware route that Sony and MS have done, that would be the end of Nintendo. You should fear the day that Nintendo go for that, not beg for it.
Nintendo is a games company, not an entertainment company with a games division like those two. If they went that route it would destroy their financials. You complain about Iwata having two years in the red, which is now turning around based on last quarter? Imagine it with their lossleading hardware, especially if it sells. Now THAT would be a situation which would warrant removal of the CEO.
Besides, do you really want a third, near identical, console?
What Nintendo provides these days are different experiences. This is what I love about them. Many may say the GamePad is useless, but it is very useful in games and changes the way games work. At worst, it frees up the screen from clutter. At best, it revolutionises the gaming experience.
Yes, the Wii U is failing to grab traction, but Nintendo will do what they always do, and be Nintendo. Cleaning house at Nintendo would not do anything but perhaps irreparably damage the company by deciding to go foolish routes that would result in lower financials, and perhaps the loss of the company.
Nintendo is a games company, not an entertainment company with a games division like those two. If they went that route it would destroy their financials. You complain about Iwata having two years in the red, which is now turning around based on last quarter? Imagine it with their lossleading hardware, especially if it sells. Now THAT would be a situation which would warrant removal of the CEO.
Besides, do you really want a third, near identical, console?
What Nintendo provides these days are different experiences. This is what I love about them. Many may say the GamePad is useless, but it is very useful in games and changes the way games work. At worst, it frees up the screen from clutter. At best, it revolutionises the gaming experience.
Yes, the Wii U is failing to grab traction, but Nintendo will do what they always do, and be Nintendo. Cleaning house at Nintendo would not do anything but perhaps irreparably damage the company by deciding to go foolish routes that would result in lower financials, and perhaps the loss of the company.
metalslimer
Member
Who cares? It was them experienting with styles and I actually wish Nintendo made more bold moves like WW instead of crying about it.
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Wiiu is loss leading. They didnt create some nice very cheap machine to be sold for a nice profit. They engineered the system to the point where they are losing money on the hardware and dont have any games shown that truly push the hardware
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Wind Waker was a masterpiece and the reaction to it was indeed shameful, but it's style did nothing to help GC's image during a time NoA and NoE were struggling to present it in the west as anything but a toy in comparison with PS2 and Xbox.
You could probably view it as yet another example of the disconnect between their eastern and western operations.
The gamecube was indeed a brilliant piece of engineering and design. It's biggest problem was its image as a toy, which could have been avoided by changing the aesthetics of the casing and controller. Games like the RE remakes, Metroid Prime and Twin Snakes may have been attempts to address this, but the brand was never able to leave the early stigmas behind, and later releases like Chibi Robo, Jungle Beat etc. contributed even more to the mixed messaging the company was sending with the brand.
Meanwhile PS1 and PS2 had this aspect pretty much nailed. I don't think it's a coincidence one of the first changes Iwata made was making sure all future hardware had that sex appeal the western audience has come to expect from consumer electronics. (granted, Wii U may be a misstep in this regard).
Screamapillar
Member
Miyamoto stepped back from corporate management in 2003 because he didn't like that he was spending more time doing paperwork than helping develop and cultivate new game development. He does very little managing of corporate business, and is basically just in charge of overseeing various games to make sure they are of high quality. And I might add that Wind Waker, over time, has proven to be one of Nintendo's most fondly remembered games from the GameCube era.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Sorry, but sales for cel-shading Zelda games speaks otherwise.
I didn't say that.
What I meant was that Nintendo approached hardware differently because, back then, they created games with a very different mentality than they are now.
You're right, good hardware doesn't automatically equals Ocarina of Time level games.
The point was that, in order to put the vision and ambition behind Ocarina of Time into practice, you needed good hardware.
Aquamarine
Member
The failure of the GameCube has proven that there is no room in the console market for a Nintendo-developed third console that's near-identical in power to its competitors.
Really, an underpowered console with a focus on gimmicks seemed like Nintendo's only option to return to a healthy amount of profitability.
It's just the Wii U is becoming another GameCube sales-wise. Nintendo's casual gimmick avenue is closing rapidly, and there's nowhere else left to turn.
metalslimer
Member
Yeah, Phantom Hourglass is one of the best selling zeldas in japan and sold very well worldwide. And now we're talking about sales? By that logic they shouldnt waste time on Zelda at all.
Didn't WW sell about 5 millions? Which is about the series average for the console Zelda games?
Only one I know reached about 8 was TP and that one was massively hyped and was available for 2 consoles and the Wii Launch.
Sure it was, or can you imagine Wind Waker with realistic graphics? The game would've lost a lot.
Man I know Gunpei is known more because of the Game Boy, but he was way more than just the inventor of the GB.
It is not something that someone introduced now on Nintendo consoles, it has been like that since ever, from consoles to portables, hell even before Nintendo started doing games and was doing toys.
And let's not pretend that the image a console needed back then was as the "mature games " machine or whatever. The original Xbox could probably be considered a case of what happens when you go in the complete opposite direction -- largely known for shooters and games from PC developers. It sold about the same as the Gamecube.
What worked so well with the PS1 and PS2 in particular is that they didn't really have an image. They were just "the game console." You could get everything on the PS2 just about. From what I remember the only genre in which the PS2 was kind of weak was shooters.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Wind Waker sold 1.6 million more copies than Majora's Mask did.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Both Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass sold over 4 million. Hardly a failure.
Iwata's leadership is a continuation of Yamauchi's leadership but with a reorganization of the company to adapt to the changing times (well more than one reorganization ...).
Nintendo did and will always focus on sound and fun gameplay, broad appeal, local multiplayer and robust presentation that hardly seek for realism.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
This a post from another thread:
Don't have the numbers for Skyward Sword though. Yet, the numbers speak for themselves.
Yeah, but not significantly loss leading like the 360 and PS3 were, and the PS4 and Durango certainly will be. Unless I'm mistaken, according to reports, just a game or two have to be bought for each console for it to turn to profitability, and the attach rate means that it is
KillerTravis
Banned
I like Iwata, I think Nintendo's output has been really good with him on front, and if he's fired because of pressure from investors it'll probably open the gates to f2p and social bullshit that is the last thing I want from Nintendo.
Schnozberry
Member
It sold nearly five million copies? It's not as much as some of the other Zelda games, but they were released on more successful consoles than the Cube.
Agree 100%. What good is all of this fresh new talent if everything is decided by the old guard? Iwata needs to do it now for the health of the company as a whole , not when miyamoto gets bored.
WHO is asking for that, though!?
If there existed a console identical to the other two that had all the multiplatform games IN ADDITION to Nintendo's games, it wold be my only console. That's what I think everyone has wanted since the end of the SNES era.
Still, it remains to be seen whether Nintendo COULD engineer an up-to-par machine and sell it at profit for a good price. I mean, they did so with every console up until the Wii. It's just that since then R&D on a new control method has supposedly eaten up money. What if Nintendo did merely do a "Super Wii" -- a console in the same ballpark the PS4 with a pro controller and an enhanced Wii Remote as its sole inputs?
But whatever. We may never know this.
Hardly, the Gamecube had the lowest sales of all the Nintendo consoles and I still don't understand why the cel shading is an issue.
If you're someone who's interested in games then you shouldn't care so much about style and more about fidelity and content. If anything, Wind Waker's problem was that it was rushed and the last part showed.
Wind Waker had the best incarnation of Zelda and the best version of Ganondorf. If you're easily put off by an art style then I don't know what to tell you.
metalslimer
Member
Yes on the GC which sold miserably. TP was also on 2 consoles.
Schnozberry
Member
Fresh talent need mentors. Firing Miyamoto or Iwata resigning wouldn't solve any of Nintendo's immediate problems. It would just create a leadership vacuum that would be extremely difficult to replace, and would likely throw Nintendo's release schedules in even more disarray than they already are.
Perhaps you need to read through this thread and GAF in general more
Lots of people have been saying it, and suggesting it to "fix" the Wii UTreasureHunterG
Banned
Ok, if we follow the "bigger userbase, better sales" argument, shouldn't Wii TP be the best seller of all Zelda games?
I'm talking about sales, not about the game itself.
freezamite
Banned
In which dimension do you live, guys? I mean, is Mario Galaxy a casual game without hardcore mechanics? Maybe Xenoblade?
Nintendo stopped to push the hardware when doing so was meaningless from a playability point of view.
I mean, just NAME a game on Xbox 360 or PS3 that, except for the graphical advantage, wouldn't be possible on the Wii.
The DC/PS2/GC/Xbox generation set a level of performance enough to allow every kind of imaginable game to run on them. Shadow of the Colossus was impossible on a Nintendo 64, it's concept simply couldn't be achieved with Nintendo 64 hardware, but neither PS3 or Xbox360 has shown anything that couldn't be achievable on a Wii conceptually speaking.
Now on this upcoming generation of games (WiiU/Durango/PS4) we will see a smaller step than the one we saw on the PS2/GC/Xbox era to the PS3/360 era, and WiiU (which is a 2012 era hardware in terms of technology) will be closer to PS4/Durango that the Wii ever was to the PS3/360. It seems more and more evident that Nintendo has chosen the intelligent path.
Technology is not a gameplay limiter anymore, now what limits playability is the interface, and this is were Nintendo has been focusing this two last generation. The WiiU pad with it's integrated screen has more possibilities from a gameplay pow than the 8GB of RAM the PS4/Durango will have.
Yeah, came to post this. It doesn't even have to be a mega-beast - just in the same league. Yes, I would very much like a system where I could play Nintendo exclusives and every third-party multi-platform release.
This isn't a radical notion - it's pretty much what Nintendo did for the Gamecube.
Version 3.0
Member
Certainly, we can, and do. Firstly, because handhelds and consoles are not the same thing, so it's really only worked once - with the Wii. Secondly, because the weaker hardware was not a major factor in its success. And lastly, because the weaker hardware was a major factor in its lack of support and early, extremely fast decline.
It was easy to see, and predicted by many, that the Wii U would suffer from lack of support, and related consumer disinterest, if its hardware were not a generational leap in power above PS3/360. Nintendo compounded that problem with other mistakes, but it is clearly a problem.
Criticism of their decision to go this route is well-deserved.
It isn't?
Schnozberry
Member
Nintendo doesn't exist inside of a vacuum. They have very wealthy competitors that were willing to lose hundreds of dollars on every console built in order to in essence buy market share. It would be dangerous and likely fruitless for them to try and operate with the same business model.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
No, it's not.