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Jeff Green's new band is called "Furtive Pygmy" [Black Dragon plays Dark Souls]

nbthedude

Member
I don't think there's any new advice to give after this run.

He missed a few items in the zombie tower, but they might not be important. I forgot what they were.

Dealing with that nonsense in the church is pretty straight forward.

He's getting better really, really fast.

In terms of combat he has most of the important stuff down. Except for learning to circle strafe around behind enemies and backstab and/or just side attack them.

But no question there is tremendous improvement in his combat.

In terms of other stuff, he does need to learn to be a bit more conservative in terms of paying attention to how many souls he has and going back and leveling up at bondfires when they get high. He lost 3 or 4 potential level ups tonight that could have easily been avoided if he would have just went back to the bondfire to bank his souls.

He also needs to pay a bit more attention to equipment and figure out a leveling up strategy but that will probably come with time.
 

nbthedude

Member
Jeff, way way better tonight both in terms of playing better and paying more attention to your play than the chat.

I think you have a good balance now. Maybe just check in on the chat stream when you die or when you don't know what to do.

Love this stream. It's my current favorite thing on the entire internet.
 

fleck0

Member
Pretty nice getting to Andre relying on skills instead of the Drake sword. If Jeff decides to upgrade his Uchigatana he'll likely breeze through to the next boss.
 
I like that when he DOES kick a question to the chat, it generally floods with a good answer.

It's like having an extra, personalized orange message whenever he wants it.
 
izRGmJkQc7sZp.gif
 

nbthedude

Member
I like that when he DOES kick a question to the chat, it generally floods with a good answer.

It's like having an extra, personalized orange message whenever he wants it.

Yeah except for the one or two guys that ALWAYS want to troll him. Like the guys telling him to go into the church or up to the top of the tower when he had a bunch of souls. But in general, yeah, the chat is filled with good people who are patient and offering good advice. It's a lot of fun.
 

nbthedude

Member
This is the best part of every single Jeff Green livestream.

gJ1CCK8.gif

It's like Jeff's stream has it's own "intro" that automatically occurs everytime:

1) Oh fuck is this working... am I on?

2) These are Koss Portapros. They are fourty freaking bucks and they are awesome.

3) I am a pro gamer speech.

4) My laptop sucks / future PC promise.
 

fleck0

Member
Yeah except for the one or two guys that ALWAYS want to troll him. Like the guys telling him to go into the church or up to the top of the tower when he had a bunch of souls. But in general, yeah, the chat is filled with good people who are patient and offering good advice. It's a lot of fun.

Hey there are plenty of Orange messages in-game telling you to jump off cliffs
 
Watching the archive on youtube and having a giggle at you play!

Your stream highlights why Dark Souls is so different to most other games these days. All the flavour text on things like item descriptions is actually important gameplay information, and players today just don't expect that. We expect instant respawn points, speech bubbles and glowing arrows telling us what everything does and where to go. So watching you learn to lock on and play a little slower, waiting for enemies to attack, block then attack them is fun to watch. As a Dark Souls "vet" you kind of forget what it's like for completely new players to come across all this shit about kindling and hollowing etc, the basic mechanics of the game are not blatantly explained and you have to work it out for yourself from the item descriptions etc.

Didn't you feel you earned it though when you kill a boss? That's Dark Souls, it's hard but fair and you get a hell of a buzz from each achievement in the game because you earn it through hard play! :)
 

Clevinger

Member
"A moment of silence for Morón."

here's how the online works:

Use humanity to restore your human form at bonfires. This lets you kindle bonfires, which gets you 10 Estus Flasks for that specific bonfire. In human form you're then able to summon Phantoms (other players) for co-op. You do that by interacting with those white (sometimes orange) symbols on the ground. Usually those signs are near bonfires at the start of levels, or on the way to a boss room.

Being human has a downside though. Other players can invade your game world and try to (and probably will) kill you. However, they can only do that in areas where you haven't beaten the boss yet.


edit: By the way, don't worry about learning parries. It's really not necessary and it will take a lot of time to get good at. What you really should focus on is backstabs. Lock onto an enemy and circle around them to your right. When you're behind them make sure your shield is down and hit the normal attack button.
 
He was kidding about learning to parry and riposte, right? Right? Guys? Jeff pls


Genuinely wonder what percentage of people who completed the game ever got comfortable parrying. I sure as hell didn't :p
 

nbthedude

Member
He was kidding about learning to parry and riposte, right? Right? Guys? Jeff pls


Genuinely wonder what percentage of people who completed the game ever got comfortable parrying. I sure as hell didn't :p

Parrying is rarely required but it's fun. I did find it incredibly useful on the last boss but that was about it.

Backstabbing however, is really really useful and not that hard. All you have to do is:

1) Lock on to enemy
2) tight circle strafe (you played Doom, right Jeff? You know circle strafe!)
3) When you directly are behind them, make sure your shield is not up and hit RB (fast attack)

The only tricky part about it is being lined up right behind them and making sure your shield is down. Other than that, it is pretty straight forward. Riposting isn't too much more complicated (just LT when they attack you and quickly hit RB to attack back). It is just that the timing for Riposte is a little tricky.
 
Parrying is rarely required but it's fun. I did find it incredibly useful on the last boss but that was about it.

Backstabbing however, is really really useful and not that hard. All you have to do is:

1) Lock on to enemy
2) tight circle strafe (you played Doom, right Jeff? You know circle strafe!)
3) When you directly are behind them, make sure your shield is not up and hit RB (fast attack)

The only tricky part about it is being lined up right behind them and making sure your shield is down. Other than that, it is pretty straight forward. Riposting isn't too much more complicated (just LT when they attack you and quickly hit RB to attack back). It is just that the timing for Riposte is a little tricky.

Yeah, circle strafing was a necessity for me against almost every lone enemy type. With the added bonus of the backstab for human-sized enemies


Circle strafe, learn enemy attack patterns/giveaway animations, and remember not to attack if it opens you up to attacks from other enemies. Get those 3 down on lock, and progress becomes 10 times less frustrating :D
 
Parrying is rarely required but it's fun. I did find it incredibly useful on the last boss but that was about it.

Backstabbing however, is really really useful and not that hard. All you have to do is:
Yeah, not only circle strafing for that reason, but learning to dodge (without rolling) instead of just taking a hit to the shield and losing stamina is useful.

Such as just casually side-stepping arrows. It'll come in REALLY handy when the "arrows" get much bigger later on. You can keep your shield up, but just gently move to the left or right since they move pretty slow.


I'll echo that parrying and riposte and cool moves for cool kids, but pretty difficult and completely reflex based, which Jeff has been praising the game for not emphasizing. Especially this early on when Moron can only take so many hits before catastrophy, it's just not worth the risk.

Fun to try out though when you go back to an old area with easy enemies and want to feel like a murderer.
 

nbthedude

Member
Yeah, not only circle strafing for that reason, but learning to dodge (without rolling) instead of just taking a hit to the shield and losing stamina is useful.

Such as just casually side-stepping arrows. It'll come in REALLY handy when the "arrows" get much bigger later on. You can keep your shield up, but just gently move to the left or right since they move pretty slow.


I'll echo that parrying and riposte and cool moves for cool kids, but pretty difficult and completely reflex based, which Jeff has been praising the game for not emphasizing. Especially this early on when Moron can only take so many hits before catastrophy, it's just not worth the risk.

Fun to try out though when you go back to an old area with easy enemies and want to feel like a murderer.

Riposte takes careful timing, but once you learn the enemies attack rhythm it isn't THAT hard. It is simply LT right before they hit you, then RB immediately after.

Backstabbing I don't think requires even that much. IT's just getting behind dudes and hitting RB. Hell, some people do it without locking on at all and argue that it is easier that way.

You are right that neither are essential. But both can make some tougher a bit easier if you have them in your repartoire. Admittedly, I didn't riposte until near the end of the game when I felt way more comfortable risking it. But I used backstabs all the time.

Actually I think it would be fun for Jeff to just find some scrub enemies and practice those two moves. That's what I did early on. He mostly has the kick down so those two moves are the next thing to add to his repetoire.
 
Can't wait for him to get to a certain part in the Lower Undead Burg :D

Hope nobody spoils it for him (I hope this isn't regarded as such, I'll edit if it is), and I hope he can find the time to keep trucking along with the game and stream
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
I'm really, really eager to see him
battle the gargoyles. The joy on his face when he beats them will be glorious...well, if he beats them.
 

nbthedude

Member
I'm really, really eager to see him
battle the gargoyles. The joy on his face when he beats them will be glorious...well, if he beats them.

I think he can. But we'll need to put some time training and leveling up in the forrest first to prepare. I think the attack order should be practicing Balder Knights first (dudes with red capes), then the Chapel basement guy, then forrest before heading there.

It is an RPG afterall. If all else fails, you can always grind your way to success. It is just that Dark Souls makes you work for the level ups and keeps them more interesting than most games where the scrub enemies are all utterly boring button mashing affairs. Each encounter in Dark Souls matters. The game never wastes your time with braindead fights. That's part of what makes it so good. It respects you as a player and your time.
 
I'm really, really eager to see him
battle the gargoyles. The joy on his face when he beats them will be glorious...well, if he beats them.
I was going to say that's going to take three more nights at least, but goddamn... that slaughter in the hallway he did. Anything's possible.

If he ever wards off a invader I'll buy him shares in a the peanut butter pretzel factory.
 

nbthedude

Member
I was going to say that's going to take three more nights at least, but goddamn... that slaughter in the hallway he did. Anything's possible.

If he ever wards off a invader I'll buy him shares in a the peanut butter pretzel factory.

Yeah those those two Baldur Knights killed me at least two or three times. Jeff made it past them the second time he made it to them. He is doing alright.

But I definitely think he needs some more time practicing, leveling up, and improving his weapons at the blacksmith before he is ready to take on
the Gargoyles

The only thing that really hurts me is seeing how many souls he has and knowing he has enough for one or even two levels up and then watching them be squandered. But actually it might be healthier to not become to focused on souls since it is inevitable that you will lose large piles at one point or another and have to learn to accept that it's part of the game. Still paying a bit more attention to them and making bondfire runs to cash them in couldn't hurt.
 

subrock

Member
The "bonfire ahead" troll had me rolling. Some hilarious moments going on in these streams. You're getting better Jeff, keep at it.
 

Pikelet

Member
Jeff, just watched the stream, great stuff!

Here is what you should probably know about how to spend your souls:

1. upgrading weapons and armour make much more of a difference to how strong you are in comparison to simply levelling up, and upgrading weapons is cheap on souls but requires titanite items which is the real bottleneck.

2. when deciding on how to level up, you should keep in mind that whilst there are a very large number of viable builds. As it is your first time through the game though, you should probably either focus on strength or dexterity, but not both as they have overlapping utility.

3. Strength lets you use the big huge weapons, dexterity lets you use more subtle weapons, such as that lovely uchigatana you murdered a shopkeeper to attain.

4. Endurance is probably the most important stat you can have because it gives you more stamina and equipment load: aka you can wear heavier armour, you can roll, attack, run, and block more.

5. Vitality gives you more hp, which is good. Blocking an attack, or dodging it via rolling is better.

6. Never get resistance as it is godawful

7. Attunement, faith, and intelligence are all related to magic and can probably be ignored unless you find a cool spell and want to build towards it. personally i think it is more fun to go hand-to-hand with a couple of cool spells that supplement my stabby-stabbyness.

8. There are very few flat out 'bad' weapons that you can get. They are all viable as they are all upgradeable. Moveset is very important. worry less about whatever attack statistic it gives but more on how it feels to use. Experiment and find one you like. Many people take that kitana you have right to the end of the game.

I just wrote way more than i expected to, but it hope it helps.
 

Bedlam

Member
In terms of other stuff, he does need to learn to be a bit more conservative in terms of paying attention to how many souls he has and going back and leveling up at bondfires when they get high. He lost 3 or 4 potential level ups tonight that could have easily been avoided if he would have just went back to the bondfire to bank his souls.

He also needs to pay a bit more attention to equipment and figure out a leveling up strategy but that will probably come with time.
Quoted because that's the next important thing he has to learn (next to upgrading armor and weapons).

Jeff, try focusing a little more on the amount of souls you have and not losing too many of them. They are everything in this game: XP and currency at the same time. As you already know, you got one chance to get back to your bloodstain and get them back after you died (RETRIEVAL). When you die again before you reach your bloodstain, it gets "overwritten" with the new one and the previous amount of souls is gone.

Important: whenever you have a considerable amount of souls and you are out of Estus, don't push on and fight more enemies. Instead, run back to your nearest bonfire and invest those souls. Sure, theoretically you could farm as many souls as you want at any time but farming is not fun. Better just put those souls to use you gain along the way.

I know you're streaming just for fun but you'll have way more fun with a stronger character. ;)
 

eot

Banned
A few things Jeff:
If you do the kick move but with a heavy attack instead of a light attack you perform a leap attack, it's quite useful in a lot of situations but does use a bit of stamina.

Since you're at the blacksmith now your priority should be to upgrade your weapon and then your shield, you can buy the materials you need from him. Upgrading your gear makes a massive difference.

Finally, when you're in the gear menu and selecting what to equip in a slot you can hit a button to toggle to a more detailed view. In the default view you don't see most of the relevant stats.

I'd like to see Jeff give the zwei a shot, it's not far to firelink from where he is now. It might suit his playstyle better.
 

Bedlam

Member
I'd like to see Jeff give the zwei a shot, it's not far to firelink from where he is now. It might suit his playstyle better.
He already has the Claymore ... I'd say he should give that one a shot. He just needs to put two more points into STR to be able to use it (one-handed). Later on he could still switch to the Zweihander when he stumbles across it naturally.
 

nbthedude

Member
Jeff, priority one for you next stream is repair your gear at the blacksmith.

We need to make the message clear and simple.

Jeff play Xanthor.

Xanthor big. Xanthor play slow. Xanthor hit things with big cudgel. Xanthor not want to die. Xanthor want to hit more big things with big cudgel. Thus Xanthor love Strength and Endurance. Xanthor also love Claymore.

Jeff play Xanthor.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Just watched it. Too bad I can't catch these live lately (3 AM start :/)

That was a great run. On my first playthrough I spent way longer on the part with the balder knight, especially because I wanted to get the other one as well. Him getting to Andre already is impressive.

You seem to be doing alright with the Uchi Jeff... If you like this playstyle just focus on dexterity next to vitality/endurance.

And if you kick, immediately follow up with a 1-2 combo, you lost some good windows there to get guys.

Now comes for the important part, as was said: upgrade your blade! You can buy titanite shards from the smith, use these to level up your sword.

Leveling up your weapon is more important than leveling up your character.
 

nbthedude

Member
Just watched it. Too bad I can't catch these live lately (3 AM start :/)

That was a great run. On my first playthrough I spent way longer on the part with the balder knight, especially because I wanted to get the other one as well. Him getting to Andre already is impressive.

You seem to be doing alright with the Uchi Jeff... If you like this playstyle just focus on dexterity next to vitality/endurance.

And if you kick, immediately follow up with a 1-2 combo, you lost some good windows there to get guys.

Now comes for the important part, as was said: upgrade your blade! You can buy titanite shards from the smith, use these to level up your sword.

Leveling up your weapon is more important than leveling up your character.

He should only build up Dex if he wants to be a fast character that has to roll alot and wear light armor. I'm pretty sure this it NOT the ideal approach for Jeff. The Uchikatana is good for now but I wouldn't recommend he invest a lot in dex because he needs to play as a tank character to survive. The slower pace is his style.
 
He should only build up Dex if he wants to be a fast character that has to roll alot and wear light armor. I'm pretty sure this it NOT the ideal approach for Jeff. The Uchikatana is good for now but I wouldn't recommend he invest a lot in dex because he needs to play as a tank character to survive. The slower pace is his style.

DEX has got NOTHING to do with Fast Roll or Light Armor. You can still wear a fuck ton of armor, tank up and use the Uchi or Scythe or anything else.

Infact Tanking with DEX weapons isnt a bad idea because a) those weapons dont leave you open to eating damage as each attack from a heavy weapon does and b) Some of the bosses take bleed damage from DEX weapons.
 

nbthedude

Member
DEX has got NOTHING to do with Fast Roll or Light Armor. You can still wear a fuck ton of armor, tank up and use the Uchi or Scythe or anything else.

Infact Tanking with DEX weapons isnt a bad idea because a) those weapons dont leave you open to eating damage as each attack from a heavy weapon does and b) Some of the bosses take bleed damage from DEX weapons.

It does because some of the better shields require strength. Strength builds have a WAY easier time some of the later bosses
especially 4 kings
. And also strength based weapons tend to hit harder and thus require less hits.

I mean, you are right that many of the strength based weapons have longer animation cycles but they also do more damage per attack and generally have longer reach.

It just seems pretty obvious to me that a better strategy for him is heavier gear and bigger weapons that do more damage and have long reach.
 

Bedlam

Member
Leveling up your weapon is more important than leveling up your character.

Leveling your character is important though. It definitely makes a difference whether he fights the next boss at level 15 or 25. It's not just about the primary stats. It's especially important for less seasoned players to have a "robust" base buid.

Furthermore, upgrading the weapons and armor he has now might not be the best idea because he doesn't know yet if he will stick with that stuff. Judging by his play style, I'd probably recommend a STR weapon like the Claymore or Zweihander over the Uchigatana.

I'd say he should put two points into STR, switch to the Claymore he already has and level that thing up as much as possible.
 

JeffGreen

97.5: The Brodeo
Wow, thanks for the plethora of tips here. Good stuff. I will head to the blacksmith post haste when I next play.

Not sure if it'll be today since I am -- well I'll put it in Spoiler tags cuz it's personal and kinda gross--
getting a colonoscopy tomorrow a.m. and have to drink this nasty crap all day that is gonna send me to the facilities repeatedly
, and, ya know, this game is difficult enough without adding THAT to the proceedings. :D

Enjoy your lunches, everybody!
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Leveling your character is important though. It definitely makes a difference whether he fights the next boss at level 15 or 25. It's not just about the primary stats. It's especially important for less seasoned players to have a "robust" base buid

It is important for the reasons you listed (never said it wasn't), but you have to upgrade your weapon at some point and encounters become much easier if you have an upgraded weapon. It makes a big difference.
 

Booshka

Member
Do the hollows with spears have a shield piercing attack? Or what happened here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnt5dqjaJ5k#t=3m55s

Also, I can't believe Jeff survived that Balder Knight. Must've been at like 5 hp.

The spear actually wrapped around behind his shield, causing the damage.

He actually let up on Block at the exact frame when the spear struck his character, his timing was impeccable. Just not the kind of timing you want to master. If you listen closely you can hear his controller inputs and the shield flickers for a frame, that is him letting up on block. The minutiae of Dark Souls combat is displayed pretty well there.
 

eot

Banned
Another thing Jeff:
Get into the habit of rolling into crates / boxes to break them instead of attacking them. It will serve you well later.
 
Jeff Green ‏@Greenspeak 15m

It's raining hard here in Berkeley. I think this means I need to eat a bowl of spaghetti while livestreaming Dark Souls. Soon!
 
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