Support NeoGAF

[Pikelet]

To revise my previous post, combat tips and general directions of where to go don't really harm the experience that much in my opinion, and probably make for better entertainment rather than butting your head against the wall of a really high level area. Getting directions on which exact stat upgrades to get and where the secrets are takes away from the experience a bit probably.

THAT SAID, you seem to be striking the enemy shield quite a bit, which really kills your stamina.

Also, when you find an opening to attack you often get a bit greedy with your slashing and take a hit in the process. It's alright to just get one or two hits in every time you get a chance, it's far better to chip away at enemies than getting too aggressive and leaving yourself defenseless.

Finally, get in the habit of looking around every single room at every angle possible, there are lots and lots of neat items and areas that can really help you. From personal experience i can tell you that oftentimes you may feel that a room is pretty basic, but on closer inspection there is something extra.

 

[Seandor]

Uchigatana is a pretty sweet weapon, but if you're going to commit to it, you may as well go ahead and pump points into dexterity. It scales with dexterity, so the more dex you have, the more powerful the uchigatana. Strength isn't a particularly important stat unless you have a strength scaling weapon or you're going with a heavy armor/heavy shield build. DEX/END/VIT for this build, I'd say.

Also, I wouldn't bother with riposte, parry, kicking, lunging or any of that garbage. The only one you should learn is backstab, because it looks fucking sweet. None of them are remotely necessary to beating the game.

 

[eot]

Even if he ends up using the Uchi it doesn't hurt to put a few point into str/dex just to try out different weapons and see what you like. It's pretty easy to overlevel your first time through the game anyway.

 

[nbthedude]

Even if he ends up using the Uchi it doesn't hurt to put a few point into str/dex just to try out different weapons and see what you like. It's pretty easy to overlevel your first time through the game anyway.

He should definitely at least try the Claymore. The Uchigatana has tiny range and requires faster attacks. Most of my friends who played ALL used great swords their first time through, a pretty common strategy because it works. Also strength will let him use better shields.

The very reason Vinny is having an easier time with a lot of the toughest bosses in the game that took many of us dozens of tries is because he is a heavy strength build. It makes a huge difference.

 

[Gattsu25]

That did hurt a bit after a while.

I like this post. <3

 

[meltingparappa]

I'dd add that the Uchi is probably overall the better weapon if you're a power player, but the claymore is generally a LOT easier to handle. You should definitely give the claymore a try for one session and then commit to one based on how you like their feel.

In the meantime, the points you would have spent upgrading them can just be spent leveling up. If there's one and only one thing you're not doing, it's cashing in those souls at the bonfire.


ALSO there's a meta game with all the NPCs, where depending how you talk to them and with what frequency, they'll act differently and help or hinder you in different ways. You wouldn't even realize thing until multiple playthroughs, but it's a really neat system.

Long story short, if you feel like murdering an annoying guy with bad hair again, ask the chat and they'll tell you if it's "safe." So far so good - the vender your killed will never sell you anything better than the uchigatana you got from his dead corpse, and pleasantly plump Prince Valiant only matters if you're going for a magic build.

I felt like I was watching the that fight from Carpenter's "They Live" last stream.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

My favorite part is the glimpses of pro-gaming Jeff exhibits. Its like we get to see a flash of his younger days. But slowly, stream by stream, the rust is falling off and the brief flashes get brighter and brighter. If he keeps going...

The highlight of the last stream was Jeff saying "oh great I must be back at the beginning" only to find out he actually was :lol

Also, can't wait for the Tested appearance! Once you have the money for a new PC, you should go to their office and record the build. I know everyone wants you at giantbomb but personally I'd rather you go to tested (if we're throwing out dream jobs for Jeff). For a website about "making" they never cover people making games which is odd given how gaming friendly their audience probably is. Jeff could fill that hole (and the bigger hole on the podcast most weeks) plus its not like other sites cover making games in any meaningful fashion other than the occasional interview with a developer. It would be an extension of what he tried to do with the EA podcast long ago

 

[nbthedude]

Jeff Green mentioned streaming tonight. Then Jeff Green did not stream and offered no excuse.

I can only conclude that Black Dragon has resigned to becoming a giant pussy.

God bless Black Dragon. He was once not a pussy.

 

[Booshka]

Jeff Green mentioned streaming tonight. Then Jeff Green did not stream and offered no excuse.

I can only conclude that Black Dragon has resigned to becoming a giant pussy.

God bless Black Dragon. He was once not a pussy.

He was demoralized when he saw Vinny defeat the Black Dragon of Dark Souls yesterday. Might take some time to recover from that.

 

[nbthedude]

Jeff is getting ready to Dark Souls again!

https://twitter.com/Greenspeak

Whoohoo!

 

[Pikelet]

Hell yeah! I've got a good feeling about this one

 

[nbthedude]

Hell yeah! I've got a good feeling about this one

This will be a good antidote to the bummer of the XBox Live streams from Polygon and Giant Bomb.

 

[7iberius]

This will be a good antidote to the bummer of the XBox Live streams from Polygon and Giant Bomb.

I haven't watched any Xbone livestreams yet. What's been such a bummer about them?

 

[meltingparappa]

Stream is alive!

 

[SeventhSon]

Jeff is live http://www.twitch.tv/greenspeak#3142

 

[meltingparappa]

First enemy of the night! Dead in fifteen seconds.


Quick tips from early in the stream:

When the Baulder Knight looks like he's going to start fencing you, that means he's in a stance where he's likely to parry you.

Circle strafing is still a good move for a bunch of reasons. Kiting enemies out of that staircase will help you out so you can strafe them, and so your sword doesn't hit the walls. That's usually a good way to deal with people.

When your stamina is low and someone hits you, you'll notice you have a much larger and slower stagger backwards. That's the main reason to watch it.

That guy that the chat wanted you to free.... .... hmm.


And put one point in STR to use the claymore!

Beware the chat because some of them are giving tips meant for super pros.

 

[Lasthope106]

Awesome show tonight. You really improved quite a bit Jeff.

Praise the Sun!

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Good show tonight. 1920 souls banked. Jeff looked much more patient fighting tonight. Next is to learn how to buff weapons (especially for bosses) and he is on his way.

And hopefully balls remain intact...

 

[UrbanRats]

Lots of improvement tonight, however the Gargoyles will be tough to go through.
Unless he goes human and asks Solaire for help.

 

[nbthedude]

Lots of improvement tonight, however the Gargoyles will be tough to go through.
Unless he goes human and asks Solaire for help.

I think he would do well to practice on Balder Knights and maybe even journey into the Forrest.

He'll be ready for the Gargoyles in a couple more sessions but he should level up, upgrade equipment and practice a bit more first.

 

[Stimpack]

I only have one piece of advice for you, Jeff. Take your time! The more time you spend, the more comfortable you'll be with controlling your character and memorizing enemy movements. You've gone very far very quickly, and you'll be a pro at it in no time. Try not to get frustrated!

 

[meltingparappa]

If you run up against a brick wall with the gargoyles, there are a couple ways to get a little advantage. If you use humanity to go human, there'll be white marks on the ground, and examining them will bring a benevolent stranger into your game.

The game is nice in that right outside the door to the gargoyles, there's summon signs for two of the NPCs you've met. They wont' steamroll the boss or anything, but it'll make it a little easier for you to take it at a more comfortable pace.

There's no cheating in Dark Souls. Think of it as a Man Vs Wild situation where you need to use absolutely everything around you to survive.


Also I don't see it here, but the chat was going nuts about rolling.

There are generally two ways to minimize hits in dark souls - you bring your shield up and take a hit to your stamina, or you can roll and try to dodge the attack.

Rolling is generally better but also a LOT riskier, and of course benefits from a lighter armor.

The chat was guiding you into hitting a certain weight stat (equipment load) with your armor so you'd be in the sweet spot where you're wearing the most armor you can while still having a relatively fast roll.

If you're on your fifteenth speedrun you can roll through anything with the invincibility frames, but at this point with this build, it's more useful if for example - the gargoyle is about to do a big massive overhead vertical swing and you feel you're not able to circle strafe away from it in time - then might as well roll to the side. It's useful to get out of jams and particularly good for close range circle strafing around a big enemy.

It's open to debate, but I'd say just keep relying on your shield as your primary means of defense when things get hot and heavy. But getting the muscle memory to remember rolling to the side or backwards is a valuable skill to keep in your pocket.


Great run. I like that there's a extra running narrative of the increasingly open defiance of your wife's attempts to feed you as you spiral down this mad rabbit hole.

 

[dragonlife]

Jeff:

Rolling is something you should always (smartly) do, be it for dodging, positioning, or just flat-out breathing room. Get used to how many rolls you can do in a decent attack -> dodge -> dodge -> attack chain. It helps to be locked on to an enemy when rolling so you can see everything clearly and not lose your bearings. If you miss an attack, JAM THE B BUTTON TO DODGE OUT OF THE WAY. Don't wait for the animation: as soon as you know you fucked up, dodge, dodge, dodge.

You don't need to have your shield up ALL the time. Enemy attacks reduce your stamina bar on blocks, so back away when it gets too low and lower your shield (again, smartly) because stamina will recover much faster that way. When you raise your shield, it lowers the recovery speed.

Always aim for mid-weight if you can. Your Equip Load must be 50% or lower of your max load to not be slowed down. You can easily tell what weight range you are when you observe the rolls (or just look at the equip load numbers).

It was fun watching you play, even though you made me a nervous wreck!

 

[Pikelet]

Think of the gargoyles as the game testing you to see if you have learned how to roll yet. You will almost certainly need it to dodge those huge and slow axe-swings.

On the plus side, I think the next time you visit the blacksmith you will be a greatly improved character in terms of equipment stats. The game is actually giving you a helping hand in some respects, those skeletons with capes (balder knights) that you are consistently butting your head up against are dropping titanite, which is used for upgrades.

I think it was a bad decision to forgo using the R2 (heavy attack) button, personally. The heavy attack button isn't simply a 'big risky all-out attack', like they often are in other combat games. Think of it as simply another tool in your belt. There are two situations that you frequently encountered where it would have been really useful.

1) The corridor with the horde of red zombies where you fought sauron. The uchigatana has a surprisingly awesome amount of range when you press R2. Keep your distance, and then as the leader of the congo line is open, skewer them with a single heavy attack. You have much longer range than they do, so you can basically take them out very safely with this method.

2) When fighting the Balder knights (aka the skeleton/cape guys). The fencing sword balder knights are difficult because they like to make an attack, then immediately jump backwards to dodge. You can counter this by running forward and pressing R2. They are very vulnerable after they land from jumping back, regular attacks simply don't have the range to take advantage of this.

Also - you found a treasure chest earlier which contained a couple of bits of lightning pine resin. If you were to use it, say, directly before a boss fight, it would give you a temporary lightning damage buff to your weapon.

Great progress in this installment though. I'm not sure why, but i'm finding that this stream is more compelling than the XCom expansion, which is also great.

 

[Creamium]

This was a good session. The biggest progress came from dealing with the 3 balder knights in the church relatively easily, more than beating the channeler (Sauron). That showed you're ready to face multiple stronger enemies, without panicking.

This is important so I'll repeat: watch the stance of those balder knights! If they're in that fencing stance, they're gonna parry when you attack. Just stressing because a parry is an almost instant death, as you've seen. Watch out for this stance:

There should be no debate about the level up: put that point in strength! You wanted to try the claymore right?

You're not strong enough to face those gargoyles yet, both in mastering of the mechanics and soul level. You should do a few runs of cleaning up balder knights. If you want to see a different environment, explore the forest below like you've done a while ago (area with the ents, beyond the blacksmith). Memorize how many souls you need to level up, and bank those souls.

At this point you should focus on leveling up a bit, and try out the claymore. Then decide what weapon you're going with, and upgrade it more (those knights dropped titanite). You can also buy shards for 800 a pop at the blacksmith. Also learn where everything is in the menu, it's painful to see you navigate the inventory sometimes

It's recommended to get a weapon to +5 before facing the gargoyles. Take some time to train because the intro is almost done, real Dark Souls starts here.

 

[Pikelet]

You're not strong enough to face those gargoyles yet, both in mastering of the mechanics and soul level. You should do a few runs of cleaning up balder knights. If you want to see a different environment, explore the forest below like you've done a while ago (area with the ents, beyond the blacksmith). Memorize how many souls you need to level up, and bank those souls.

Yes, the forest is a good place to explore before trying the gargoyles again. There is also quite a bit of secret items (e.g. The key to the jail cell) and optional minibosses that you could almost certainly beat if you backtrack a little. Maybe try going through the gate you just opened towards the area where the boar was. A couple of items were in the room downstairs from the boar area. Also the black knight at the top of the spiral staircase is a fun challenge that i think you have a good shot at beating now.

 

[Bedlam]

Yep, I'd also suggest that he should do the forest (and its boss) before the Gargoyles to prepare himself. Also, there some good armor down there.

No archive for yesterdays stream, btw? I can't find anything.

It's in his past broadcasts: http://www.twitch.tv/greenspeak/b/482204592

Thanks. I'm not used to Twitch yet.

 

[Creamium]

Yep, I'd also suggest that he should do the forest (and its boss) before the Gargoyles to prepare himself. Also, there some good armor down there.

No archive for yesterdays stream, btw? I can't find anything.

It's in his past broadcasts: http://www.twitch.tv/greenspeak/b/482204592

 

[UrbanRats]

Yep, I'd also suggest that he should do the forest (and its boss) before the Gargoyles to prepare himself. Also, there some good armor down there.

No archive for yesterdays stream, btw? I can't find anything.

Wait what?

Spoiler

Sif is several times harder than the Gargoyles.

Unless you mean the moonlight butterfly, though i don't know if Jess is equipped to do it easily.

 

[Pikelet]

Spoiler

Wait what? Sif is several times harder than the Gargoyles.

Unless you mean the moonlight butterfly, though i don't know if Jess is equipped to do it easily.

spoilers bro

 

[Bedlam]

Wait what? Sif is several times harder than the Gargoyles.

Unless you mean the moonlight butterfly, though i don't know if Jess is equipped to do it easily.

Of course I was speaking of the first part with the

Spoiler

Moonlight Butterfly

boss. %)

Whether he does that boss or not, he should explore the forest, gather souls and level up a bit there. I think the boss is one of the easiest in the game, he could do it.

 

[UrbanRats]

Sorry, bad habit about discussing DkS so much, i guess.

EDIT: Either way, the names alone aren't really that much of a spoiler.

 

[Pikelet]

Sorry, bad habit about discussing DkS so much, i guess.

No harm, no foul.

 

[Bedlam]

Watching now and Jeff has just put on the Knight armor again.

Jeff, it may sound tedious and boring but you really should start paying more attention to the numbers in this game. Outfitting yourself with the best armor combination available at a time but staying under 50% of the weight limit would be the way to go if you don't want to run around with turtle speed.

In general, numbers in this game are important. Upgrading weapons and armor, leveling up and optimizing your equipped items will make this game so much easier which in return will make it more fun for you because you're going to progress faster.

 

[eot]

Here's a vague hint regarding the key to the jail cell:

Spoiler

It's somewhere along the path you took to get from the bonfire behind the Hellkite Drake to the bonfire by the blacksmith.

 

[nbthedude]

I agree with the consensus here. Upgrade strength to use Claymore and maybe then work on upgrading it at the Blacksmith. Then explore, maybe grind a bit, and level up. There is plenty time for the Gargoyles later. in the meantime there are several mini-bossees and items left to discover between the forrest and chapel.

I too would recommend Jeff take on the first forrest boss before the Gargoyles. But magic or a bow and arrows would really help make that fight a cake walk.

 

[Polioliolio]

I was actually playing Dark Souls when the stream went live.. can't believe I missed it.

Haven't watched the new videos yet since my girlfriend got into it and won't let me watch it without her

 

[eot]

Even though Dark Souls generally isn't a game where you have to grind, I think clearing out the church a few times would be a good idea. It's about 1400 souls and doesn't take that long, plus you might get a few shards too. Get a +5 weapon, maybe +3 shield and a few points in end / vit. It's good practice to fight the Balders anyway.

Also, the hollows outside the church are great for practicing backstabs!

 

[Serra]

I honestly recommend being under 25% equip for the fast roll, even for new players like Jeff. Positioning is key and running/rolling faster makes it easier.

 

[nbthedude]

I honestly recommend being under 25% equip for the fast roll, even for new players like Jeff. Positioning is key and running/rolling faster makes it easier.

My first play through I hardly ever rolled and played a really heavy character. So does Vinny on the Dark Souls stream. It's a very common and successful tactic.

It's basically an either/or. Either you where heavy stuff and depend upon blocking mostly, or you where light equipment and depend upon rolling a lot.

I do think it's generally a good idea to stay at 50% load or lower, though.

 

[eot]

25% is very limiting in terms of what equipment you can put on, especially until you have FAP and Havels.

 

[Bedlam]

I honestly recommend being under 25% equip for the fast roll, even for new players like Jeff. Positioning is key and running/rolling faster makes it easier.

In my opinion, new players such as Jeff fare better with a build that can compensate minor mistakes. Meaning he should be able to take a couple of hits.

So a <50% equip burden build should be fine but he needs to optimize his armor a little bit more. He sort of started doing it but it's really high time he takes a look at those numbers and menus until he understands them. It will pay off, Jeff.

 

[nbthedude]

In my opinion, new players such as Jeff fare better with a build that can compensate minor mistakes. Meaning he should be able to take a couple of hits.

So a <50% equip burden build should be fine but he needs to optimize his armor a little bit more. He sort of started doing it but it's really high time he takes a look at those numbers and menus until he understands them. It will pay off, Jeff.

Yeah the dude played WoW for years. I know he is capable of reading stats screens.

There are people who play through the game relying solely on skill and hardly ever up grading but smartly adjusting your equipment can provide a really nice edge.

 

[JeffGreen]

Tons of great advice again - thanks guys!

Yeah I've played my share of RPGs over the decades, so I get that numbers are important. So far, other than a couple 5-10 minute sessions to test the stream, I've ONLY played this online with people watching, so I haven't sat down and taken the time to do any math and study leveling options, because I don't wanna make people sit there while I do that. . So I need to do some offline reading up. And honestly I wasn't really ready to do that until now anyway. And I think that's kinda standard to how I play most RPGs anyway -- blunder in, get my feet wet, and once I have a basic understanding THEN back up and read everything I can to make an optimal build. If I read up on that stuff too early, I either can't understand what everything means because I have no context yet, or I get bogged down and feel like I'm doing homework before I've even decided if I like the game or not.

It's like we went on a couple hesitant blind dates together first, in which, hey, I'm not gonna try too hard yet because she could be a psycho and chronic projectile-vomiter with really bad breath. But now that I know that she's actually kinda dateable, I'm willing to step up and commit.

 

[clip]

Hey Jeff,

I just had a really shitty week. I watched the archives of your most recent streams this morning and it made me laugh and forget about my troubles for a few hours. For that, thanks.

 

[Firebrand]

Enjoying your Dark Souls stream, Jeff. You're doing great! I do think you should try out more of the weapons you find, as they handle differently with their own special moves. Spears for example lets you keep your shield up while attacking.

If you wanna know why you should pick STR or DEX, I made a quick little pic. In your inventory, press X to bring up the detailed stats for that particular weapon:

So, something like the broadsword or claymore might be balanced between the STR and DEX with C/C, receiving bonuses from both, while your favorite the Uchigatana receives a bonus from DEX only.

And oh, I forgot to highlight them in the picture, but for shields you're mainly interested in (Physical) Damage Reduction (preferrably at 95%+) and Stability (decreases stamina drain when blocking).

Looking forward to YOU DEFEATING the gargoyle on the next stream. I believe!

 

[Necromanti]

In my opinion, new players such as Jeff fare better with a build that can compensate minor mistakes. Meaning he should be able to take a couple of hits.

So a <50% equip burden build should be fine but he needs to optimize his armor a little bit more. He sort of started doing it but it's really high time he takes a look at those numbers and menus until he understands them. It will pay off, Jeff.

Yeah, it definitely helps to fit your equipment around your play style, strengths, weaknesses, and preferences. Since I did not see him roll often, I think heavier armor would suit him and allow him to take more hits. That would also benefit the fact that he seems to go for offense over defense, so adding a powerful weapon on top of that would let him just power through a lot of enemies (more so than with the current build and set-up, at least).

Things get easier once you build up your muscle memory, though. Eventually, it becomes more second-nature as to what hit-boxes are, when and where you're vulnerable, the different attack poses of enemies, when to shield rather than attack, and so forth.
I had the benefit of beating Demon's Souls once before I started Dark Souls, so going with a lighter armor--the gold-hemmed black set, which I refuse to take off, at least in its entirety (for aesthetic reasons, too)--and using the Dark Wood Grain ring to focus on rolling felt natural to me.

Fighting

Spoiler

Ornstein and Smough (with killing Smough first)

was painful at level 15 and took a few tries, but it felt rewarding to stick to a play style I enjoyed. When I was getting one to two-hit by

Spoiler

The Four Kings

, I almost compromised and tried a heavier set, other rings, other weapons and so forth that I just did not enjoy using--and it did not help. Eventually I buckled down back to my old equipment and got smarted with my responses, and obliterated them. I think once he fights them--and some other bosses--his play style will naturally evolve in response since more finesse is expected of you, and he'll get better as a result. Eventually, it will feel simple to kill or merely ignore a horde of basic enemies that may have given you trouble earlier.

 

[Bedlam]

Hey Jeff, no worries.

Here's what you should pay attention to the most in terms of equipment:

Try to keep the equip load under 50% while having a physical defense number as high as possible by combining different pieces of armor (equipped weapon adds to equip load too). That's basically all. The rest is fluff and for special situations.

edit:

The 3 speed tiers are:
0-25%
>25%
>50%

 

[nbthedude]

Enjoying your Dark Souls stream, Jeff. You're doing great! I do think you should try out more of the weapons you find, as they handle differently with their own special moves. Spears for example let's you keep your shield up while attacking.

This pic is good for explaining stuff. I'm going to add a few things to it:

Jeff basically first column is how much attack damage a weapon does in various categories. So for example you'll notice this weapon here does 200 damage basic attack and an extra 175 on top of that when you thrust at an enemy. Everything in this column stacks. So if a weapon does 200 physical damage and 50 lightening damage it is essentially always doing 250 but some enemies are more weak to certain types of damage, as is true in all RPGs.

The second column is how much defense it gives you when you block with it. Remember you can use swords to block when you are two handing them. Similarly, the first column on shields is also it's "attack" power. As crazy as it sounds, you can actually shield bash and use shields as attacks. People play through the entire game that way for fun and post Youtube runs. You'll notice in this picture that this sword absorbs 50% of phsyical damage when blocking, which means even if you successfully block with it while using it two handed, you are still gonna take half the damage. Ideally, you probably want a shield that blocks 100% physical damage since that is the most common type of damage. But if it says 80% Fire, for example, that means if an enemy throws a fireball at you and you block, your shield is going to absorb 80% of it.

But primarily for swords, pay attention to the first column. For Shields, pay attention to the second column since most of the time you will only be using swords for attacking and shields for blocking.

 

[meltingparappa]

In my opinion, new players such as Jeff fare better with a build that can compensate minor mistakes. Meaning he should be able to take a couple of hits.

EDIT: Pics above explain it better.


I agree with this which is why rolling is a great skill to master, but some people recommend going rely on it almost exclusively, which turns the game into a fast twitch reflex game instead of a more methodical approach, which Jeff seems more comfortable with.

And JEFF: that wall of numbers is intimidating for sure. Quick tips:

Equipment load will determine how fast you move, and there are four tiers based on the percentage of your load.

Weapons will have an A/B/C/D (etc) ranking near things like STR/DEX/INT. What that means is how well they scale the more points you put into that stat.

For example, people I disagree with keep bugging you to put points in dexterity, because the uchigatana has a 'B" stat in DEX. Meaning the more you invest in DEX, the more powerful it will become, versus a knife that has a D rank in DEX with the same number of points. B is pretty high, obviously, but there'll be better weapons later, and a DEX build goes back to being an agile rolling chinese circus performer, and I subjectively don't think that's meant for your style. Once you test the claymore you can have a better idea of what you might prefer.

Forget about leveling up anything but STR/END/VIT (and arguably DEX). Everything else isn't worth thinking about.

There's a stat called 'poise' which affects how likely you are to being stunned when you're hit That gif a few pages ago of a guy in armor getting hit from all sides and soaking it in like a sponge without being stunned is because he has a really high stat in it. You can't necessarily level up poise directly, but heavier armor contributes to it, of course at the expense of rolling.

Another quick tip:

When you're human, your drop rate is higher, you can kindle bonfires to get more estus flasks, and you can summon people. The latter is super helpful for bosses. That big grey number on the top left of your hud is how much humanity you have on hand. You'll get it sometimes out of nowhere for a reason I forgot, but you lose it if you die. So if you see a '1' or '2' in there, go to a bonfire and go human because you just might as well.

Also I recommend exploring that church just a little bit more, then going to the forest instead of fighting the gargoyles again.

There's a bonfire right past that stretch of ents (you got really close last time). You won't "beat" the forest, but you'll find all sorts of goodies and it isn't too difficult once you get enemy patterns down. Keep in mind that the ents have an unblockable attack - the one where they eat you. THAT is a great example of where rolling comes in handy to just get out of there.

Can't stress enough that through all the deaths, you're making progress in both your characters and your fighting style. You're circle strafing now, and one step closer to the back stab by just getting in close until you're right behind them. You can always practice that on the chumpy little hollow knights. The guy with a crossbow and no shield right outside the church is a particularly good sucker to try it out on as you go back and forth between the blacksmith bonfire.

Jeez, what a wall of text..