packy34
Member
Nah. Installing games to a drive is multiple orders of magnitude better for performance and it's been a thing on PC since the dawn of gaming.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Jimquisition: Nintendo - A Shit Distributor And Fuckheaded Toymaker (Nov. 28, 2016)
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
Nah. Installing games to a drive is multiple orders of magnitude better for performance and it's been a thing on PC since the dawn of gaming.
I can see where Amiibos probably caught them off-guard, it was a new avenue they were getting into with making actual toys, they wanted to play it safe initially and avoid overshipping demand, and then when it was clear demand was there, there was a lag in recalibrating production.
But the NES Mini? Naw son. The announcement of the NES Mini was being shared and reposted ALLLLL the fuck over social media when it hit, and by a decidedly far greater segment of the population than just die-hard Nintendo fans. The NES is a cultural touchstone, we've got cereal commercials with couples playing Super Mario Bros. and car commercials with Tecmo Bowl. Nintendo probably rakes in millions on the side in licensing shirts and pins and belt buckles and ice cube trays with NES iconography. Anyone who didn't predict it would be enormously popular was out of their goddamn gourd.
Wandering Robot
Member
I would hope that Nintendo sees the buzz and hype for Switch and watches pre-orders to better gauge demand so this doesn't happen 3 1/2 months later, but Nintendo can be unpredictable. It's kind of worrisome, but I have a little hope. The Switch is a much more major release.
Dreamwriter
Member
Here's the thing: manufactured scarcity depends on the object eventually being easy to acquire, to take advantage of its popularity. If this was on purpose, then stores should have been flooded with them on Black Friday. But Nintendo didn't ship any NES Classics to stores at all for Black Friday, not even a small number to keep people interested. So I'm under the impression that it's not on purpose, they just didn't make enough, didn't think they'd be nearly as popular as they are. They probably based that off of Wii U VC sales numbers, and the knowledge that many gamers just go out and pirate the NES games they want to play.
I'd rather have longer load times and not have to delete games all the time. The benefit is not worth the loss of ease of use.
But that's for another thread.
Niet zo stoer praten jij
PSFan
Member
But nowhere on the box does it say "Limited" or "Special" Edition. It just says Super Mario Black or White edition on the side of the box.
He is so fucking right like every time. Unbelieveable that 1 Target would only get 5 units in total. Also unbelieveable that retailers have to deal with the shitstorm afterwards. It's something I haven't even thought of and now I feel bad for my buddies (and fellow GAF'ers) working in retail.
Glad he also mentioned Pokemon Sun/Moon's delayed launch in Europe. That topic deserves an other Jimquisition on it's own, honstely.
Glad he also mentioned Pokemon Sun/Moon's delayed launch in Europe. That topic deserves an other Jimquisition on it's own, honstely.
This alone proves the intentional scarcity theory is bunk. Black Friday would have been the time to release the flood after the hype. Nintendo NES Classic lost the chance at beating out PS4/XB1/3DS in November.
It's a much more major release for Nintendo, but for the general public? Nah. I would not be shocked if the Switch is met with a similar reception to the Wii U... unless they can hit a $200 price point.
A $60 toy so Gen X/Y can relive their childhoods doesn't really compete with modern console gaming.
Well the entire video game industry is predicated on the concept that increased financial risk results in increased financial reward. Hence why consoles have long employed the "razors and blades" business model of moving systems at or below cost to make up the difference on game sales. Also evident in the ever escalating cost of AAA game development where bigger = better.
Same in the movie industry where production costs have risen steadily to fund major summer blockbusters that dominate the entire cinematic landscape.
Most media produced for mass consumption works on the concept that the more money you put into something the higher the profits on the other end will be, assuming it is a good product.
Nintendo clearly doesn't believe that or at least believes that isn't a viable strategy for them. They're probably right, but that trickles down to how they roll out products with a much more conservative eye towards initial manufactured numbers, total manufacturing capacity, and how quickly they want to meet demand in exchange for risking overproducing as demand dries up.
You're trying to match anecdotal evidence with quantifiable anticipated sales, that simply isn't a valid strategy for a company to go by. Even when companies market test products they assume a pretty healthy decline from people who say "yes, I'll buy that" to the number of people who would actually show up to buy it because there is a proven trend of this happening (same with people saying they'll vote, as another example of inherent dishonesty in polling). Nintendo miscalculated the NES Mini's demand but likely did so with sound reasoning at the core, just sound reasoning built around very conservative ideology.
Oh believe me, I know. That's why it's important to properly estimate demand. Which requires management who understand how to do their jobs.
The only way this is possible is if Nintendo actively ignores social media metrics for their products and does not have any online presence or engagement in those arenas, and that's absolutely not true.
OnimaruXLR
Member
It boggles my mind how people are that horny for this thing. Maybe because I've had all the games I care about that it includes on 3DS VC for ages, but damn, man, is a little plastic NES-shaped case with HDMI out really that important to yez?
There have been plenty of cases where things were the absolute talk of the town as far as the internet goes and proceed to sell like a lump of wet flour.
There have been plenty of cases where things were the absolute talk of the town as far as the internet goes and proceed to sell like a lump of wet flour.
Jim didn't say that. LordRaptor is taking quotes out of the context from an old unrelated Jimquisition because he's trying to steer this discussion into Jim vs. Nintendo instead of a rational discussion about the topic at hand which is Nintendo not being able to supply its toys/devices in reasonable quantities one too many times.
TheMagician
Member
Hold on,
From what I remember the only Nintendo consoles where demand wasn't met were the Wii and the NES Mini.
The Wii sold the fastest and most amount of units a console have ever ever sold, so I can let that pass.
I agree that the stock of the NES Mini is too low though, but as a whole this isn't something I would hold against Nintendo as it's hardly something they're in a position to pull off because the consoles weren't popular enough.
From what I remember the only Nintendo consoles where demand wasn't met were the Wii and the NES Mini.
The Wii sold the fastest and most amount of units a console have ever ever sold, so I can let that pass.
I agree that the stock of the NES Mini is too low though, but as a whole this isn't something I would hold against Nintendo as it's hardly something they're in a position to pull off because the consoles weren't popular enough.
Megawarrior
Member
Thank you.
Glass Shark
Banned
Ok, but what's their worst-case scenario for overestimating demand? Their cost on these boxes is probably so low that if they found themselves with too many, they could probably drop the price to $40 or even $30 to clear out warehouses without much impact to the bottom line.
LordRaptor
Member
He did say that, I have correctly transcribed and sourced it in this very topic.
You can claim he was just joking if you want, but that is what he said.
It's related because if you do a Jimquisition about the NES Mini being a rip-off and not worth the money when just downloading for free is much better, its a bit rich 6 months down the line complaining how the NES Mini was obviously going to be massive and Nintendo are obviously undershipping as a result.
Twenty7KVN
Member
I agree with Jim %100 and i hope Nintendo doesn't pull this shit with the switch.
Dark_3nergy
Member
Ironically enough Jim, since you brought up Target, when the Pikachu 3DS XL was released I got to see the stock they had for that at my local Target store.
The people working that register said they had 6 shipped to the store, to which I confirmed with my own eyes as it was sitting on the counter behind the register. 2 of which where bought by employees and I was lucky enough to get 1 of the 4 that where available to customers.
Now, one of the employees who was there had purchased one before the store even opened. When I asked him questions about company policy pertaining to employees having first pick of the merchandise coming in, he got a little defensive with me. Not that I was in any way trying to pick a fight, heavens no, but the idea that employees got first pick of limited supply merchandise was a little saddening for me. But something I had accepted as fact, and moved on with since then. This is something I do certainly plan around for limited supply runs when I do go hunting for Limited Edition items.
The people working that register said they had 6 shipped to the store, to which I confirmed with my own eyes as it was sitting on the counter behind the register. 2 of which where bought by employees and I was lucky enough to get 1 of the 4 that where available to customers.
Now, one of the employees who was there had purchased one before the store even opened. When I asked him questions about company policy pertaining to employees having first pick of the merchandise coming in, he got a little defensive with me. Not that I was in any way trying to pick a fight, heavens no, but the idea that employees got first pick of limited supply merchandise was a little saddening for me. But something I had accepted as fact, and moved on with since then. This is something I do certainly plan around for limited supply runs when I do go hunting for Limited Edition items.
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
Bingo but James Stanton has his little show that he needs his tinfoil hat fans to donate to.
PSFan
Member
Just the Wii, the NES mini isn't really a console.
Though this situations with Nintendo, usually also show problems in the distribution inside the retailers.
Like the aformentioned Fire Emblem Fates Special Edition. It had a really short preorder window and was sold out for months. Yet, come day of release, both Best Buy and Amazon put additional stock they got for sale before fullfilling all preorders. Some even with preorders got their orders delayed or cancelled in the meantime.
The recent $99 3DS, some stores got dozens of them while others got 5 or less. Amazon even decided to allow preorders without notice the day before.
The NES mini because of been a hot item, has been the eye of scalpers. So you have people in stores buying any stock they have (1, 5, 10), you have people online using bots to buy 5, 15, or more.
Retailers can do preorders without Nintendo's permission, (random example) by creating a SKU for it, allow people to pay for it and then come release void that and charge it with the real SKU. They can also put limits in stock so to only sell one per person or one per account (online).
But the reality is that some retailers also enjoy this kind of situations. So a person that goes to their store, doesn't end with they they wanted can go and purchase something else, that might even bring a higher proft margin to them. Stores like Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy they barely make any money on videogames. But if a disgruntled customer went to but a NES mini, was pissed off that it was sold out and noticed a 4KTV (or whatever) on his way out for cheap and even decides to get the store credit card, even if denied; that already brought more money than the lost mini sale.
Like the aformentioned Fire Emblem Fates Special Edition. It had a really short preorder window and was sold out for months. Yet, come day of release, both Best Buy and Amazon put additional stock they got for sale before fullfilling all preorders. Some even with preorders got their orders delayed or cancelled in the meantime.
The recent $99 3DS, some stores got dozens of them while others got 5 or less. Amazon even decided to allow preorders without notice the day before.
The NES mini because of been a hot item, has been the eye of scalpers. So you have people in stores buying any stock they have (1, 5, 10), you have people online using bots to buy 5, 15, or more.
Retailers can do preorders without Nintendo's permission, (random example) by creating a SKU for it, allow people to pay for it and then come release void that and charge it with the real SKU. They can also put limits in stock so to only sell one per person or one per account (online).
But the reality is that some retailers also enjoy this kind of situations. So a person that goes to their store, doesn't end with they they wanted can go and purchase something else, that might even bring a higher proft margin to them. Stores like Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy they barely make any money on videogames. But if a disgruntled customer went to but a NES mini, was pissed off that it was sold out and noticed a 4KTV (or whatever) on his way out for cheap and even decides to get the store credit card, even if denied; that already brought more money than the lost mini sale.
themagicalkitsune
Member
I knew this was gonna happen the minute Nintendo announced it. And so did most people aware of Nintendo's distribution practices
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Yeah, Nintendo needs all the income they can get at this point. I can guarantee you they're cranking out as many Classic NES Minis as the production lines will allow.
Nintendo simply got caught with their pants down on this one. They misjudged demand, and by the time they knew this thing was going to blow up they had to spin up production lines again, something that assuredly takes some time.
I would imagine they're trying to avoid a repeat of the Wii U where product is just on the shelf collecting dust.
To be honest, I'd never imagined that the NES Mini would be in such high demand. Controller alone is a dealbreaker. DIdn't even think that new 3ds would be in high demand, I thought xbox/ps4 was the go to christmas presents
Still Nintendo needs to adapt when these things actually end up being big hits. Ship some more while the demand is high or else you're going to lose on potential customers. Shit could've sold a stupid amount holiday season.
If pokemon is going to be on switch ya'll need to make it available. But yeah the switch is going to sell out for some time
Still Nintendo needs to adapt when these things actually end up being big hits. Ship some more while the demand is high or else you're going to lose on potential customers. Shit could've sold a stupid amount holiday season.
If pokemon is going to be on switch ya'll need to make it available. But yeah the switch is going to sell out for some time
ElRenoRaven
Member
Hell anyone with a half a brain cell knew this was going to happen. Everyone called it because Nintendo's history of doing this shit.
fabricated backlash
Member
Ah the old Nintendo is creating artificial demand conspiracy. Going strong since the 80s, so why break with tradition now.
Admittedly Nintendo needs to be called out for its poor planning though. I totally expext the NES mini to clutter retail shelves early next year. Similar to Amiibo. Such is the reality of a conservative company. Slow to react, slower to adapt.
Admittedly Nintendo needs to be called out for its poor planning though. I totally expext the NES mini to clutter retail shelves early next year. Similar to Amiibo. Such is the reality of a conservative company. Slow to react, slower to adapt.
kunonabi
Member
I don't think that or Star Rush are really going to be flying off the shelves.
StereoVsn
Member
Personally I believe that for NOA NES Mini shortages were based on complete and utter incompetence of the execs combined perhaps with that brought up idea of them underestimating in order to obtain higher bonuses.
There is absolutely no reasonable idea of why there were no preorders of NES Mini in NA which is arguably Nintendo's biggest market on console side. Yet here we are receiving 5 units per Tarelget and Walmart.
Here is a fun thought. A lot of people who didn't get the NES Mini probably got another purchase as Christmas gift this week. Most don't have the time or interest to jump through Nintendo's hoops to buy a Christmas gift.
The 3DS Offer BF was yet another CF. Overall I am quite disappointed in Nintendo and this will cause me personally not spend money on 3-4 NES Mini units and 2 x 3DS (plus some games for latter) as gifts. It's very anecdotal but I know a few other folks in similar position. Meh to Nintendo.
There is absolutely no reasonable idea of why there were no preorders of NES Mini in NA which is arguably Nintendo's biggest market on console side. Yet here we are receiving 5 units per Tarelget and Walmart.
Here is a fun thought. A lot of people who didn't get the NES Mini probably got another purchase as Christmas gift this week. Most don't have the time or interest to jump through Nintendo's hoops to buy a Christmas gift.
The 3DS Offer BF was yet another CF. Overall I am quite disappointed in Nintendo and this will cause me personally not spend money on 3-4 NES Mini units and 2 x 3DS (plus some games for latter) as gifts. It's very anecdotal but I know a few other folks in similar position. Meh to Nintendo.
Sorry, I don't fall for your lame tactics. This is not the subject at hand here. This issue of under-shipping is not limited to NES Mini, it has a long history with Nintendo and Jim's opinion about NES Mini has no relevance at all in the context. Like none. If Jim considers the NES Mini worthy or not doesn't make suddenly more of them appear in stock.
hockeypuck
Member
Thank god for backlogs. I would have easily purchased a $99 3DS but if Nintendo doesn't want to not make it a pain in the ass to purchase some of their products then I'm not gonna bother. Guess I should also thank Nintendo for making me practice some semblance of fiscal restraint (not being sarcastic here).
AntiFacebook
Member
There's actually a demand for NES classic? Lol
Not Having the NES-mini on shelves for Black Friday is just incompetence, my family was looking forward to this for the kids (and myself obviously) , I just dont get why would you do such thing to an item that everybody knew it was going to have high demand.
The defense force on Nintendo's incompetence is incredible.
The defense force on Nintendo's incompetence is incredible.
LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
Here's the thing most people don't think about, it's really, really expensive to increase manufacturing capacity. It's sunk cost into manufacturing equipment, workers to run the line, additional shipping and storage capacity, etc. etc. It's even more expensive to have extra capacity and overstock. The additional sales from the extra capacity may not be enough to make adding the additional manufacturing economically worthwhile thus there are limited supplies, but fully meeting demand would be less profitable due to the additional cost to meet that demand. It's an unfortunate reality of physical manufacturing.
yeah they should've banked on this craze and ship out a ton by holiday season. By next year most people aren't going to care much cause people are in debt.
Pretty crappy planning all around. Should've released it earlier at the very least to gauge out the interest then get a bunch ready for holidays.
I still don't understand. Would've been a novel, cheap Christmas present though. Which is probably the appeal. I'd play it once or twice then just store it on my bookshelf
I never forgot the day when the wave with Ness, Wario and Dedede amiibo came out and every store got only a few. I had to import Ness and Dedede then buy Wario off Amazon who then promptly went out of stock.
Not to mention the various limited run games like Return to Dreamland, Xenoblade and Prime Trilogy. Pre-orders just arent a concept to Nintendo.
Not to mention the various limited run games like Return to Dreamland, Xenoblade and Prime Trilogy. Pre-orders just arent a concept to Nintendo.
Tons of demand. Everyone I know in the right age window wants one. If you're in your late 30's or early 40s this thing is a lock.
LordRaptor
Member
He starts with a false premise that "artificial scarcity" is real, with no real explanation as to what if any benefits Nintendo gains from such a thing - when it self-evidently harms sales, not benefits them.
Yes, a lot of people go straight to that conclusion, because that way you get to simultaneously claim that nobody wants Nintendo products, and that when there is incontrovertible evidence that people do, you get to claim that people only want them because Nintendo are secretly manipulating the market to make it look like there is more demand than there really is.
Which is just complete horse shit.
Supply and Demand doesn't work like that.
I'm in my early 20's and I'd love to have one of these.
As someone who has no interest in it, the NES Mini fuckshow has been a hilarious clusterfuck to witness. Feel genuinely bad for people who really wanted one though. Some of the scalping has been brutal.
Sad to say that it almost makes me hope Ninty DON'T do a SNES Mini next so I don't have to get swept up in this mess myself next time.
Sad to say that it almost makes me hope Ninty DON'T do a SNES Mini next so I don't have to get swept up in this mess myself next time.
Petrae
Member
The evil part of me wants Nintendo to pull this same level of ineptitude/fuckery with the Switch.
-- No preorders; first-come, first-served
-- Max 10 per store on launch day
At least with the Switch, retailers wouldn't have to sit on piles of unwanted inventory for months like they did with WiiU.
After the extreme difficulty that came with getting a Classic NES Mini and the impossibility that was getting a New 3DS this past weekend, Nintendo needs to go after that Triforce of Bullshit.
-- No preorders; first-come, first-served
-- Max 10 per store on launch day
At least with the Switch, retailers wouldn't have to sit on piles of unwanted inventory for months like they did with WiiU.
After the extreme difficulty that came with getting a Classic NES Mini and the impossibility that was getting a New 3DS this past weekend, Nintendo needs to go after that Triforce of Bullshit.
HandsomeCharles
Member
IIRC someone have floated the idea that the reason for the European delay was because many (and I mean, a LOT) of European retailers broke the street date for X and Y, and by shipping the game a week later this time round then a broken street date would result in the game being out at the same time as the rest of the world.
I don't think that theory holds too much water though. I think it's more likely a logistics issue. It was still annoying though.
BlastProcessing
Member
Thank you for saying this more clearly than I could have.
Hari Seldon
Member
This has to be incompetence lol. This product in particular is a device that is either: fairly inexpensive fun christmas gift OR piece of shit mall kiosk junk. There is nothing in between. Not hitting christmas in quantity is a major fuckup.
Version 3.0
Member
I'll never be on board with the conspiracy theory here. Not when the actual explanation is so simple: Nintendo is incompetent.