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[Jakoo]

Fuck it, I'll play Devil's Advocate:

The point he makes about only white western nations being pressured to embrace cultural and ethnic diversity, while many other ethnically homogeneous countries - let's say India - far from facing such calls are actually celebrated as and protected from intrusion, makes for an interesting talking point.

Contrast for example, Bollywood Cinema to Hollywood Cinema - which of these is being lambasted more often for a lack of broader cultural representation and which is actually more guilty of lacking ethnic diversity among it's cast and crew?

I would say that generally, Western nations are a lot wealthier and have more job opportunities for people that promote immigration. As a result, the bar is higher for the US to clear to integrate those immigrants.

If India became the number 1 economy in the world that everyone wanted to immigrate to, then I imagine that with enough time, a similar standard would be set for them. I have been to India for work. It's a friendly country with a rich culture, but I could never imagine immigrating there and can't imagine their immigration application rate is comparable to the US.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yeah, that India example isn't great.

Unless we want to just call all of Europe white and all of Asia Chinese.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Fuck it, I'll play Devil's Advocate:

The point he makes about only white western nations being pressured to embrace cultural and ethnic diversity, while many other ethnically homogeneous countries - let's say India - far from facing such calls are actually celebrated as and protected from intrusion, makes for an interesting talking point.

India is the poorest possible example to use here. Even discounting the pervasive effect of 300 years of foreign colonization there are dozens of spoken languages and a religious divide that defines their very history.

 

[Slayven]

Name one. Just one. I'm not really seeing it.

you know that won't happen

Fuck it, I'll play Devil's Advocate:

The point he makes about only white western nations being pressured to embrace cultural and ethnic diversity, while many other ethnically homogeneous countries - let's say India - far from facing such calls are actually celebrated as and protected from intrusion, makes for an interesting talking point.

Contrast for example, Bollywood Cinema to Hollywood Cinema - which of these is being lambasted more often for a lack of broader cultural representation and which is actually more guilty of lacking ethnic diversity among it's cast and crew?

Know why the USA is a white nation? Cause they stole it from the folks who were here

 

[Tregard]

Dunkey called it a year ago...I think.

https://youtu.be/P6uTKPwVnNI

FWIW I think Dunkey is a friend of Jon's

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Fuck it, I'll play Devil's Advocate:

The point he makes about only white western nations being pressured to embrace cultural and ethnic diversity, while many other ethnically homogeneous countries - let's say India - far from facing such calls are actually celebrated as and protected from intrusion, makes for an interesting talking point.

Contrast for example, Bollywood Cinema to Hollywood Cinema - which of these is being lambasted more often for a lack of broader cultural representation and which is actually more guilty of lacking ethnic diversity among it's cast and crew?

Go grab any US History book and read about how this nation was established and developed and opposition to it being considered a "whites only"/anti-immigrant country should be obvious.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

You have no idea what you're talking about. India is one of the most diverse countries on the planet. You can't go a block without running into people of at least 4 different ethnicity or religions. It's one of the very few places where inter-religious/ethnic marriages take place. I guess all brown people are just the same to you though.

You realise I could make exactly the same argument about 'white' Americans and level the playing field and you'd have still dodged the question.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That doesn't really answer the point though and I don't think it makes sense to argue that any race 'inherits' anything from those of the same genetic group. Even if could argue that conclusively that white built America all by themselves, it wouldn't mean that any person alive today would be entitled to a slice simply by virtue of racial consistency - and that true for all races in America today.

It might be that it's early but I am having a real hard time parsing this.

 

[Zaphod]

Edit: lol @ the dude trying to make a point by saying India is ethnically homogenous.

That one cracked me up bad. Like he couldn't be more wrong.

India has more than two thousand ethnic groups,[11] and every major religion is represented, as are four major families of languages (Indo-European, Dravidian, Austroasiatic and Sino-Tibetan languages) as well as two language isolates (the Nihali language[12] spoken in parts of Maharashtra and the Burushaski language spoken in parts of Jammu and Kashmir).

Further complexity is lent by the great variation that occurs across this population on social parameters such as income and education. Only the continent of Africa exceeds the linguistic, genetic and cultural diversity of the nation of India

 

[Mahonay]

Not at all culture is a fluid thing developed from evolving social norms. I'm not defending his opinion, i'm defending his right to state it. Immigration in general is a tough subject to handle and i don't have the knowledge and understanding to make any decisions based on such things. If you would like to share your opinion on cultural diversity and immigration please feel free to share.

Soooo... you don't know what you're talking about. Which is true.

 

[PopeReal]

How can anybody defend any of this?

Racists have to double down while getting mad that they get called racists.

 

[see5harp]

For me, America was never a whites only nation. People like Jon say that America was solely built by whites but the truth is it was built on the backs of minorities. So saying that minorities have zero right to any cultural difference is dumb.

Please tell me that Jon did not actually say that America was solely built by whites.

 

[Adam_Vania]

Hey. The majority of us here in NYC do not think like this dick head. This city is overwhelmingly liberal and forward thinking.

But yeah, there's still plenty of rich assholes here with no moral compass.

yeah, i wrote that as a specific joke about president he who shall not be named in this thread. i got nothing but love for NYC, a whole lot of big-hearted people live there.

 

[Einchy]

You realise I could make exactly the same argument about 'white' Americans and level the playing field and you'd have still dodged the question.

You sure you're playing devils advocate here?

 

[SomTervo]

Not at all culture is a fluid thing developed from evolving social norms. I'm not defending his opinion, i'm defending his right to state it. Immigration in general is a tough subject to handle and i don't have the knowledge and understanding to make any decisions based on such things. If you would like to share your opinion on cultural diversity and immigration please feel free to share.

Much of the time it's not "opinion", though. It's facts backed up by research and patterns observed by multiple sources.

People having platforms that they earned is important and good, but it's an awful idea to hand-wave erroneous and/or problematic statements with "it's his right". If you want to tow that line, then I'm absolutely equally within my rights to call him out on all the ignorant shite he said in this stream and constantly press him on it.

How is he immune from criticism but this community is not?

 

[The Lamonster]

I rather have Idubbbz destroy his career. I don't see H3H3 bringing this up, if he did he'd probably play both sides.

this.

I understand why iDubbbz is so polarizing, but if you can stomach him, he is fucking powerful.

 

[i-Lo]

Yeah, that's clearly not what he's discussing. His first tweet yesterday was about how "we can't rebuild our society with someone else's babies", as an argument against immigration. It's clear what he thinks we should look like, and it's not that idealized "everyone is tan" thing.

I don't really think, at anything less than a geological time scale, the "complete mix" thing is going to ever happen no matter how much bigotry is shattered. Even as part of a deliberate eugenics project it would take multiple generations. I doubt it could ever happen even within 500 years.

I guess this is then meant for a different time and thread: Is racism (a form of tribalism) inherent to our nature as part of survival (for which we have no actual need today's society)? I ask, because I do wonder if this will be one of the basis for difference if we ever colonized other worlds.

 

[Veritigo_X]

You realise I could make exactly the same argument about 'white' Americans and level the playing field and you'd have still dodged the question.

Starting to sound like you actually aren't playing devil's advocate...

 

[oneida]

To recap (and I'm sure this is not all of what JonTron said), JonTron said, in what he thought was perfectly fine for a debate:

- Foreigners dilute the gene pool
- Black crime in America is the same as in Africa (like, he fuckin' brought this up TWICE)
- Racial issues can be summed up via mixing different colors of paint
- Statistical data means nothing because Clinton lost the election
- Destiny wants to kill black people
- Black Lives Matter is a violent organization
- the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man
- Tribalism is a valid theory
- Immigrants are destroying every single country they are let into
- America is gonna become Mexico
- Racism is over
- Muslims are organizing to make it seem like Christians are protesting abortion clinics

And Destiny didn't even fucking ask the most obvious fuckin' question: "If you're so concerned about immigrants, why do you keep bringing up blacks?"

holy
fuck

 

[PopeReal]

The "devil's advocate" line usually is followed by a bunch of nonsense.

 

[Mahonay]

yeah, i wrote that as a specific joke about president he who shall not be named in this thread. i got nothing but love for NYC, a whole lot of big-hearted people live there.

Trump is an unfortunate blight on this city. Everyone here has hated him for the past 30 years.

 

[RedFury]

>india
>ethnically homogeneous

holy shit

like, you literally could not pick a worse foundation for that argument

They all look the same so it counts. /extreme sarcasm

 

[Usobuko]

Fuck it, I'll play Devil's Advocate:

The point he makes about only white western nations being pressured to embrace cultural and ethnic diversity, while many other ethnically homogeneous countries - let's say India - far from facing such calls are actually celebrated as and protected from intrusion, makes for an interesting talking point.

Contrast for example, Bollywood Cinema to Hollywood Cinema - which of these is being lambasted more often for a lack of broader cultural representation and which is actually more guilty of lacking ethnic diversity among it's cast and crew?

If Bollywood reception around the world is on the same scale as Hollywood, they will be pressed as hard to represent diversity in their film too.

Hollywood benefits tremendously from globalizing its products, movie budget gets bigger, stars get pay more, the appeal of America and its values grow etc. People liked you guys in general and white people are mostly put on a pedestal worldwide.

Do you really want Hollywood to switch role with Bollywood? America benefits so much from cultural dominance.

The truth is the world is white centric and almost everyone is receptive to it but the other way don't exist. Sales at least indicate this much.

Diversity is your blueprint to stay on top. If you start being hateful and embracing protectionism, you'll lose out to other nations that embrace free-trade and globalization. Your talent pool shrinks and the size of the market available for your companies decrease as well.

 

[Fliesen]

Jesus, that Destiny video was painful to listen to ...

Thank god there can't be any "it was just a joke bro" "It's out of context" defense force here.
The whole tangent of 'there is no more discrimination in our western countries' was just mind numbingly silly...

What this interview revealed more than anything was that Jontron isn't some troll, or some shitty gamergater ... he's kinda, way less smart than his videos make him out to be. Like completely unable to form a coherent argument without childishly trying to constantly deflect.

 

[Gaminar]

You realise I could make exactly the same argument about 'white' Americans and level the playing field and you'd have still dodged the question.

Really? I'm from that region. Your whole argument about "leveling the field" could be answered if you research the East India Company who completely "leveled the field" with colonization alright.

 

[JimJamJones]

Why is this a bashing thread? He makes some valid points.

 

[Slayven]

The "devil's advocate" line usually is followed by a bunch of nonsense.

ReallYou just look at the phrase, you are advocating for the devil. The symbol of evil for much of the world

 

[watershed]

He's deeply racist and misinformed and that's all there is to it.

 

[DarkConfidant]

The "devil's advocate" line usually is followed by a bunch of nonsense.

Well eventually while using it you’ll actually advocate for the devil…

 

[Crosseyes]

The spoiled gamer to white supremacist conversion path is something to behold. I know we've had threads like this, but the overlap in the gaming community can't be ignored.

Edit: lol @ the dude trying to make a point by saying India is ethnically homogenous.

With all that's been revealed with stuff like gamergate and similar trains of thought I've come to appreciate how much of an outlier GAF is compared to what scum gaming communities can attract.

Like we can still fight over games, have console wars and eat bans for caring too much about video games but the hardline stance on sexism, racism, homophobia and such is a real luxury compared to what a cesspool gaming can be.

 

[i-Lo]

You realise I could make exactly the same argument about 'white' Americans and level the playing field and you'd have still dodged the question.

FYI, bollywood is ONE of multiple "woods" that cater to the audiences in the country. And while it is the biggest one, it puts out movies with a single language (for most part) among others that cater to other audiences who speak other languages.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Pushes a bit -- "They didn't actually mean it. I can't believe you took them seriously."

Pushes a bit more -- "You are too easily offended! Grow a thicker skin."

Blatantly puts it out there -- "The real problem here is you!"

Really lays it on thick -- "I just can't stand Muslims/Blacks/Women/etc.."

 

[SomTervo]

The very reason why racism is stupid is because it's based on things that don't exist.
Stop using a concept that's not real and only used for oppressive purposes would be a good start. Or are you going to tell me that there's some value in it?

Right, yeah, racism is based on meaningless superficialities. That doesn't mean it's very real and has a history of incredible damage. In principle you're right but you have to look at the reality of how certain people are seen and treated - our lived perceptions.

What the fuck?

To recap (and I'm sure this is not all of what JonTron said), JonTron said, in what he thought was perfectly fine for a debate:

- Foreigners dilute the gene pool
- Black crime in America is the same as in Africa (like, he fuckin' brought this up TWICE)
- Racial issues can be summed up via mixing different colors of paint
- Statistical data means nothing because Clinton lost the election
- Destiny wants to kill black people
- Black Lives Matter is a violent organization
- the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man
- Tribalism is a valid theory
- Immigrants are destroying every single country they are let into
- America is gonna become Mexico
- Racism is over
- Muslims are organizing to make it seem like Christians are protesting abortion clinics

And Destiny didn't even fucking ask the most obvious fuckin' question: "If you're so concerned about immigrants, why do you keep bringing up blacks?"

 

[SpiceMelange]

What's his counter argument when people point out how he's himself of Iranian descent? I don't quite get the twitter exchange relating to that in the op, I'm not a native speaker.

 

[Victarion]

I don't get why people have such trouble believing people in (X group) could be (Y group supremacists). Self hating jews is a well known phenomenon. The term "uncle tom" exists. Uncle Ruckus wasn't made up out of whole cloth.

We're not breaking new ground when we discover someone who isn't pure blooded white is espousing white supremacy as if they were. Even easier to see with Jon Tron, he can pass pretty easy and is successful. Open and shut case of "fuck you got mine"

Yup, Maz Jobrani did a stand-up comedy at Stephen Colbert's show a while back and he picked up on this. https://youtu.be/jQtmEfOfDKs?t=4m
He mentions Armenian-Americans in this case but it's basically valid for other immigrants as well.

 

[Seventy70]

You realise I could make exactly the same argument about 'white' Americans and level the playing field and you'd have still dodged the question.

He was making an argument that somehow multiple cultures cannot co exist without "tribalism" taking over and causing absolute chaos. I was responding specifically to that

Now, the US is not India and they are very different situations that can't be compared 1:1 when it comes to immigration. The histories are completely different.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

You have no idea what you're talking about. India is one of the most diverse countries on the planet. You can't go a block without running into people of at least 4 different ethnicity or religions. It's one of the very few places where so many inter-religious/ethnic marriages take place. I guess all brown people are just the same to you though.

India is the poorest possible example to use here. Even discounting the pervasive effect of 300 years of foreign colonization there are dozens of spoken languages and a religious divide that defines their very history.

Know why the USA is a white nation? Cause they stole it from the folks who were here

Go grab any US History book and read about how this nation was established and developed and opposition to it being considered a "whites only"/anti-immigrant country should be obvious.

Political discussion on NeoGAF... I swear, the number of people around here sprinting for the moral highground in desperate rush to cast smug self-satisfied scorn on other people is truly staggering.

 

[DarkConfidant]

Thank god there can't be any "it was just a joke bro" "It's out of context" defense force here.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but…:

Why is this a bashing thread? He makes some valid points.

:|

 

[Poor GRIMES]

The day people stop excusing blatant racism as a political ~opinion~ or ~leaning~ cannot come soon enough.

fake edit: India "ethnically homogenous"?

 

[Gattsu25]

Fuck it, I'll play Devil's Advocate:

The point he makes about only white western nations being pressured to embrace cultural and ethnic diversity, while many other ethnically homogeneous countries - let's say India - far from facing such calls are actually celebrated as and protected from intrusion, makes for an interesting talking point.

Contrast for example, Bollywood Cinema to Hollywood Cinema - which of these is being lambasted more often for a lack of broader cultural representation and which is actually more guilty of lacking ethnic diversity among it's cast and crew?

Are we going to ignore Bollywood's lack of international market penetration?

Bollywood does really well amongst indian audiences abroad. Doesn't do anything close to Hollywood numbers outside of it's home territory, however.



Or are you more talking about the #OscarsSoWhite backlash and how the spread of Hollywood leading stars/writers/directors/producers/etc doesn't even come close to matching the demographic makeup of the country that Hollywood is in?

 

[PaulCRose]

To recap (and I'm sure this is not all of what JonTron said), JonTron said, in what he thought was perfectly fine for a debate:

- Foreigners dilute the gene pool
- Black crime in America is the same as in Africa (like, he fuckin' brought this up TWICE)
- Racial issues can be summed up via mixing different colors of paint
- Statistical data means nothing because Clinton lost the election
- Destiny wants to kill black people
- Black Lives Matter is a violent organization
- the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man
- Tribalism is a valid theory
- Immigrants are destroying every single country they are let into
- America is gonna become Mexico
- Racism is over
- Muslims are organizing to make it seem like Christians are protesting abortion clinics

And Destiny didn't even fucking ask the most obvious fuckin' question: "If you're so concerned about immigrants, why do you keep bringing up blacks?"

Don't forget the "Global Elites" the codified term for Jews.

 

[ErichWK]

Ugh, Jon Tron.

Quiet, You awful man.

 

[UziTheBeast]

Go grab any US History book and read about how this nation was established and developed and opposition to it being considered a "whites only"/anti-immigrant country should be obvious.

Fuck it, I'll play Devil's Advocate:

The point he makes about only white western nations being pressured to embrace cultural and ethnic diversity, while many other ethnically homogeneous countries - let's say India - far from facing such calls are actually celebrated as and protected from intrusion, makes for an interesting talking point.

Contrast for example, Bollywood Cinema to Hollywood Cinema - which of these is being lambasted more often for a lack of broader cultural representation and which is actually more guilty of lacking ethnic diversity among it's cast and crew?

Why are you comparing India to USA? India is not multicultural, not on the same level as USA at least. Which cultures could India possibly represent in Bollywood without it looking totally out of place? By the way, the songs in Bollywood have lots of white or non-Indian dancers.. For some reason.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Political discussion on NeoGAF... I swear, the number of people around here sprinting for the moral highground in desperate rush to cast smug self-satisfied scorn on other people is truly staggering.

Ah... Those are just facts. That's not 'sprinting for the moral high ground'

 

[Zee-Row]

Because we've been encouraging them to be assholes by following the loudest voices. Personally I've been turned off the "RAGE GAMER" aesthetic for over half a decade and I try to keep my own channel as chill as possible.

I love gaming historian and classic game room. Those guys seem really chill and really informative.

 

[SomTervo]

Political discussion on NeoGAF... I swear, the number of people around here sprinting for the moral highground in desperate rush to cast smug self-satisfied scorn on other people is truly staggering.

... So rather than engage with various points and the conversation, you yourself rush for the moral highground?

 

[Toxi]

To recap (and I'm sure this is not all of what JonTron said), JonTron said, in what he thought was perfectly fine for a debate:

- Foreigners dilute the gene pool
- Black crime in America is the same as in Africa (like, he fuckin' brought this up TWICE)
- Racial issues can be summed up via mixing different colors of paint
- Statistical data means nothing because Clinton lost the election
- Destiny wants to kill black people
- Black Lives Matter is a violent organization
- the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man
- Tribalism is a valid theory
- Immigrants are destroying every single country they are let into
- America is gonna become Mexico
- Racism is over
- Muslims are organizing to make it seem like Christians are protesting abortion clinics

And Destiny didn't even fucking ask the most obvious fuckin' question: "If you're so concerned about immigrants, why do you keep bringing up blacks?"

Jesus

Why are you comparing India to USA? India is not multicultural, not on the same level as USA at least. Which cultures could India possibly represent in Bollywood without it looking totally out of place? By the way, the songs in Bollywood have lots of white or non-Indian dancers.. For some reason.

India's actually very multicultural, as other posters have pointed out.

 

[Scipio]

Fuck it, I'll play Devil's Advocate:

The point he makes about only white western nations being pressured to embrace cultural and ethnic diversity, while many other ethnically homogeneous countries - let's say India - far from facing such calls are actually celebrated as and protected from intrusion, makes for an interesting talking point.

Contrast for example, Bollywood Cinema to Hollywood Cinema - which of these is being lambasted more often for a lack of broader cultural representation and which is actually more guilty of lacking ethnic diversity among it's cast and crew?

Holy shit hahahahaha

There are few countries as heterogeneous as India. And since when do people 'celebrate' the current situation in India. It's a third world country.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Political discussion on NeoGAF... I swear, the number of people around here sprinting for the moral highground in desperate rush to cast smug self-satisfied scorn on other people is truly staggering.

I mean, not that your argument is entirely indefensible here, but

Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

 

[cand]

Dear Lord... I actually liked him. What a cunt... I'm never watching his videos again