He's literally deflecting.
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JonTron (youtuber) speaks against demographic "invasion" of America by nonwhites
- Thread starter Cerium
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He's literally deflecting.
18 minutes into the TotalBiscuit rant and he's now lamenting about identity politics. 19 minutes in and he is talking about gaming and anime consisting of vulnerable people on the spectrum.
The fuck am I listening to. I'm stopping now. What a brave man using this time to attack Gizmodo about what they said about what Jontron said.
The fuck am I listening to. I'm stopping now. What a brave man using this time to attack Gizmodo about what they said about what Jontron said.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I mean, this is the first tweet after the audioblog:
"Jon is getting the PewDiePie treatment"
If his intention wasn't defending JT, he did a piss job at it.
Maybe I wasn't currently able to listen to the audio. Don't jump down my throat.
MrJoobJoob
Member
The whole 2nd half of the rant is bizarre. And now I'm hearing my thoughts in this guy's voice, why the fk did I listen to the whole thing
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Three million unsubs in less than fifteen hours.
Yup.
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
Welp. Guess that's that then.
Dude's arguing that Jon isn't the best debater and is being taken out of context. Gif implies jon's kinda right too. Shame that Arin seems fine with Jon's shit.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Can i get a recap of what happened today? I can't watch a 2 hour debate.
AND normalizes jontrons ideas as just another political voice.
And not dangerous alt-right rhetoric infecting public discourse
HazySaiyan
Banned
TIL racist, white nationalist bile is just 'bizarre'.
And can we stop with this 'it's just a difference in politics' horseshit? Wanting different levels of regulation in the free market is a difference in politics. Thinking other races are inferior and 'diluting the gene pool' is just racist cuntery. There's no debate here, it's just wrong and should be condemned in the strongest terms.
And can we stop with this 'it's just a difference in politics' horseshit? Wanting different levels of regulation in the free market is a difference in politics. Thinking other races are inferior and 'diluting the gene pool' is just racist cuntery. There's no debate here, it's just wrong and should be condemned in the strongest terms.
Also I love that one of his arguments, the one thing is more "offensive" is that Gizmodo didn't provide a source that rich blacks don't, in fact, commit more crimes that poor whites. Like it's not JonTron's job to do it as he advances this crazy thought, no no it should be GIZMODO's job.
Freaking unbelievable
Freaking unbelievable
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is pretty laughable when the art comes from the personality. So what this personality says and do is scrutinized. JT has +3million subscribers lots of them who admires him, why what he publicy says is not news?.
Also fuck, white nationalism and racism is not a political opinion that deserves any real consideration or acceptation.
TurboKiller
Neo Member
Classic whataboutism from TB there. You can literally see that he thought "How can I talk about this without coming down on my friend like a ton of bricks? I know I'll just make some facile points about this article rather than say anything substantial about the complete bullshit my friend was spouting earlier"
Utter coward.
Utter coward.
stump sock
Member
well also usually that only works when that person's "art" is more artistically sound than "playing video games on the internet"
9:17'ish
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah he's lying to himself if he really thinks that isn't a defence of this hateful shit. You can't say you're not defending it but then be all 'well no one should report on it' that's complete fucking bullshit
Lightning_Roller
Banned
It's fucking infuriating.
The theme is "none of these people saying reprehensible things are responsible for themselves"
Especially in a personality based medium.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
He absolutely is defending it when you go ~10 minutes doing nothing but attacking the article writer (when it's not even a story they covered first since Destiny interviewed Jon after the shit went down) instead of responding to anything and hand waves it away that it's none of our business how he came to his conclusions or why thinks what he thinks because it's his thoughts. It's a god damn strawman and whataboutism, he is absolutely defending JonTron. He just doesn't have the balls to come straight out and say it. Nice try though!
Means that? I interpretated that "Jon is different from what's happening but THE SAME" maybe someone can tell us about the gif and the meaning?
I think you've interpreted it wrong... or perhaps I have?
I think Arin liked it because it showed how Jon is a joke and that his argument didn't make sense.
It's from the movie 'The Interview'. James Franco's character just landed in North Korea.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Sorry, nope, I'm just reading the site wrong. Not three million people.
I mean... good on the people if you can actually do that but the issue with "separating the art from the artist" is that in the case of people like Jon, PDP, h3h3, what-have-you is that they try to sell themselves as an integral part of the artwork.
If we talk about say, Phil Fish - someone who got a whole bunch of flack his way for being an unpleasant instigator, and how that reflected on Fez as it's means of existence was largely attributed to his name alone - I can understand why you would want to "separate the art from the artist" on that. He created something that isn't reliant on how much you enjoy him as a person. Sure, in a way our personalities and mentalities reflect on the arts we create, but depending on what those arts are they come across more subtle than others, and Fez isn't a game about Phil Fish.
But the same can hardly be said about many of these YouTube personalities where people aren't really watching them for the things they cover. Sure, that might be how they get introduced, but sustained viewership is wholly dependent on cult of personality and the fact that these people value what you say and think. This is perhaps less evident in Jon's videos because unlike many others he mostly deals with a scripted, theatrical and calculated "set piece" style review - and to his credit Jon is a good actor if nothing else (though his personality shines through the cracks in Game Grumps) - but when you put yourself and your thoughts on the front and center of your entire brand the line blurs tremendously once you start attempting to distinguish the artist from the art they create.
When you're an actor, you are the art.
And this is ignoring the fact that even if you separate art from the artist, what Jon is saying in this situation is so far on an incompetent deep end it is mind-numbingly frustrating to entertain.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
I'm surprised people haven't kept up on Yahtzee (Ben Croshaw). I mean the fedora didn't give it away?There might be more examples, but I barely follow him and remembered this stuff. He's not gone white nationalist and alt-right like Jontron has, so far...but he's definitely anti-feminist, anti-social justice, and a bit more conservative.
Just not a fan of social justice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZssC5Iw4XrA
"You know, whatever you think is currently the thing ruining video games, be it publishers, misogyny, social justice, Mumm-Ra or lead in the water pipes, it seems to be doing a fucking poor job of it because games have been pretty good lately. Maybe that's the equivalent of saying 'Ooh, it's a bit cold today, so much for global warming'. But I digress."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbNY1qgyuwY#t=1563
"If social justice tries to get up your case, all you need to do is flick V signs and blow an arse brick. Just whatever they say, go *blows raspberries*. At length. Keep doing it...Fuck you social justice for ruining the best day of that guy's life [shirtgate]."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbNY1qgyuwY#t=33m
"I thought feminists were supposed to be about wearing what you like. Suppose that doesn't apply to the MEN, does it? Men's rights for peace. [sarcastic tone] Men are the real victims."
Transphobia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cy0mWziFrI#t=1m45s
"The gameplay is best described as single-player co-op. And I know that sounds like saying 'I'm not gay, I only suck off pantomime dames', but it is."
"It's hard to sympathise when you have to put spotty mcbumblefuck through the X-ray machine cause his passport says he's a GIRL. And the last precious seconds in the day trickle out as you examine a picture of his hairy balls."
i remember shirtgate. i still feel sorry for him. he helped land a fucking spacecraft on a comet and people were still pissed off at him for his (tacky) shirt. like i get that the shirt was in poor taste but did you really have to make him cry? you know if anything you made me like Yahtzee more. which is weird cuz i never really liked his shtick in the first place.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Yep. A complete waste of anyone's time.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
I have no context, how much did he have to how much he has now?
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
It's hard to take what Total Biscuit has to say seriously anymore. Plus he blocked me on Twitter so no, I'm not bitter towards him at all.
grim-tales
Member
I agree he has the "right to say it" (Jontron's views), equally we should have the right to call somebody out on racist shit.
Edit: Gamers are "vulnerable"/"on the spectrum", what the fuck?! :s
TB sounds like someone from the UK trying to imitate an American voice mixed with RP, reading a teleprompter.
I wish it was always easy to seperate art/artist as TB says, but on this occasion, not sure I can because its changing how I see him (JT). JT's art IS the artist and part of his personality in the videos.
I enjoy gaming, I do not care about the culture surrounding YouTubers. I can safely ignore this. My only thought I had during the day was what do kids do who watch stuff like this? They lost two stars recently with pewdiepie being a neo-nazi and John Tron going on this alt right rant. Hopefully they can move away from sources of hate and just enjoy the hobby.
Lol, savage but true
Nah fuck that TB trying to turn this shit on Gizmondo. They hung him with the rope he provided.
I mean the only questionable sentence in that whole article is "Menghele would be proud" but given it's in relation to talking about how it's a problem immigrants enter the US gene pool I'm not actually sure it's even that much of a stretch. I can see Joseph Menghele earnestly being proud of a statement like that.
I mean the only questionable sentence in that whole article is "Menghele would be proud" but given it's in relation to talking about how it's a problem immigrants enter the US gene pool I'm not actually sure it's even that much of a stretch. I can see Joseph Menghele earnestly being proud of a statement like that.
I'm 17 minutes into this audio post and all he is doing is blaming the media for every little thing and attributes their criticism of games as an attack on the people that play them which radicalizes those people. He's also talking about how games are already really diverse.
If all it takes is a simple criticism of a video game to radicalize you into some kind of white supremacist, then you already hold those beliefs and just found a reason to come out as one and hangout with them.
If all it takes is a simple criticism of a video game to radicalize you into some kind of white supremacist, then you already hold those beliefs and just found a reason to come out as one and hangout with them.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
didn't see it, thank you.
SolicitorPirate
Member
As sure as the sun will rise in the east, TB will come out in valiant defense of shitheels while insisting he doesn't agree with them
lol, you're not wrong.
Palette Swap
Member
That art/artist platitude is so fucking lazy and asinine. There's a whole spectrum between being a jerk as a private person and spouting batshit insane hardcore white supremacy talking points.
If anything, this kind of posture downplays the latter and is pretty telling.
If anything, this kind of posture downplays the latter and is pretty telling.
Exactly. It's "Ethics" all over again.
I'm not seeing it. According to the top-level summary page his subscriber numbers have barely moved? Down ~3K, which is nothing when you start from 3M+
Yeah its bloody tiring at this point. That's literally the same gameplan the majority of the alt-right go straight to every goddamn time. Rather than discussing the points in good faith, they go straight to the deflection/this is a media beat up/fake news angle while presenting themselves as the rational adult in the room.
They might even say they don't condone the situation yet they'll devote most of their time picking apart an article for the purpose of I don't know why.
If you aren't going to spend the majority of your podcast ripping on JT, why the hell are you even talking about Gizmodo's perhaps shoddy reporting unless your goal is to muddy the water for the casual viewer who might end up believing JT is getting beat up by liberal media/fake news/whatever?
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Seriously, what the fuck. How can he say he's not defending it but then spend more time criticising an article highlighting it then criticising the hateful shit itself? He's absolutely defending and supporting it with this shit
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
It was ballpark 9 minute mark after he finished declaring Gizmodo the devil of the world, inciting hatred and harassment at JonTron to make money, will stop at nothing to gain money, etc. Don't have an exact time. He says he's a lefty and doesn't agree why would he but then goes on another 6-10 mins complaining about Gizmodo and how they're the ones creating alt-right people.
As a fan of TB and someone who watched his videos regulary this is how I see it, he wants to deflect attention from his friend. I agree with some of his points but he should be talking more about Jon, not criticising the article.
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