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[M0nochromatic]

Man that TB audio log... wew. Of course he says that Gizmodo

- took things out of context

- didn't include citations

- is a hit piece

- was part of Gawker and therefore complicit in spreading Hulk Hogan's sex tape

- is against free speech

- is inciting harassment

- is part of the dying liberal media outlets and is just lashing out at YouTube

etc etc etc. Basically every gamergate canard in the book.

I don't understand why he feels the need to stick his neck out here. He's very clearly skirting around what Jon actually said and he knows it. I get standing by other youtubers, but surely he must have seen the shit show that was the stream? He isn't worth standing by. That wasn't shock humor, it was neither satire or parody. It was just ignorance and bigotry.

I didn't think TB was like that. I thought he was being misrepresented when people slapped the GG label on him, but maybe I was wrong.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

This is beautiful

Thing is, the main page for that says he's only a bit over 2.6k subscribers lost thus far. It's a noticeable dip, sure, but it's hardly shattering his career despite the hype.

 

[Seiniyta]

He absolutely is defending it when you go ~10 minutes doing nothing but attacking the article writer (when it's not even a story they covered first since Destiny interviewed Jon after the shit went down) instead of responding to anything and hand waves it away that it's none of our business how he came to his conclusions or why thinks what he thinks because it's his thoughts. It's a god damn strawman and whataboutism, he is absolutely defending JonTron. He just doesn't have the balls to come straight out and say it. Nice try though!

That's the point he was trying to make though. If you write an article like that it should have something of value of it. Fact checks of the various statements he made should at least be a bare minimum.

I don't think he's protecting Jontron in the audioblog. However, the normalizing and the whataboutism has merit in his absense of clarity. When he does these rants he never uses a script and it shows and never get's simply straight to the point and bogs himself down.

I don't think it was his intention to normalize his behaviour, to protect Jontron, but having listened to it al lnow I do think it's very easy for people to get that impression which doesn'nt help him in the slighest either.

 

[Toxi]

The theme is "none of these people saying reprehensible things are responsible for themselves"

I'm really sick of this.

Yes, many gamers are on the autism spectrum. Being on the spectrum is not an excuse to be a shitheel and implying that is insulting to the many decent people on the spectrum. Nor should it serve as an excuse for the many shitheel gamers who are not on the autism spectrum.

 

[VDenter]

See, that wasn't my take on it. I get why people are/were cool with what he said -- it certainly wasn't anything approaching the bullshit alt-right meltdowns we all witnessed.

But I felt like everything he said can be summed up by 'I don't want to see the movie because it's a bunch of girl Ghostbusters. I know I can't justify that, and I don't want to be a jerk, but....I just feel like it should have been the original guys.'

Polite, self-aware bullshit doesn't impress me.

No. Did you even watch the video?

It had nothing to do with the fact that the new Ghostbusters were played by women actors he even says it in the video. He simply did not want to support what looked like a shitty cash grab movie. Which seemed to slapped together as quickly as possible to cash on whatever juice the Ghostbusters franchise still had. And guess what he was right on the money the movie was crap. He had no obligation to see it and the only reason he made the video was because people kept asking him what he thought.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Reminder: TB was the one who said not being racist makes you the real racist or something like that.

 

[Nanashrew]

Also separating the art from the artist is not some virtuous thing. That's just you wanting your cake and eating it too. Take the L and move on as you bring nothing to discuss.

Anyone can separate the art from the artist, it's up to you if they step over the line that you can't support them anymore. If you're supporting JonTron after all of his racist crap and things that reek of white supremacy that goes against his very own existence, then I question where your line even is.

 

[ferunnico]

Why is trying to make a random article the news and not the crazy racist outburst?

I haven't listened to the audio blog yet, so I don't want to assume to much about. From that second summary it just sounded like he did address what JonTron said and that he doesn't agree with it at all. I'm not defending TB here, I just thought the extra bit of info that the first summary left out made his response seem more reasonable.

 

[yanipheonu]

Well. Jon's racist rap joke suddenly is a lot less funny...

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I'm not seeing it. According to the top-level summary page his subscriber numbers have barely moved? Down ~3K, which is nothing when you start from 3M+

Yeah, I'm just stupid.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

Means that? I interpretated that "Jon is different from what's happening but THE SAME" maybe someone can tell us about the gif and the meaning?

I think you've interpreted it wrong... or perhaps I have?

I think Arin liked it because it showed how Jon is a joke and that his argument didn't make sense.

Rewatching the gif, yeah, I think I completely misinterpreted it.

As for the guy defending Jon's talking points, one of his earlier tweets says

don't agree with him completely, but that was mainly poor structure. I wish people would actually try to understand him tho

In response to

JonTron is in the right, btw; as per usual

"Pls understand that diluting the gene pool doesn't actually mean diluting the gene pool"

 

[tsumineko]

Thing is, the main page for that says he's only a bit over 2.6k subscribers lost thus far. It's a noticeable dip, sure, but it's hardly shattering his career despite the hype.

It's a trend. Before it was only going up, now it's going down. Can't complain about that.

 

[Anung]

https://youtu.be/UH8cVLeVHEM

HOLY FUCK THIS IS STRONG.

 

[gotoadgo]

TB has always been a complete dickhead, this shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[Armaros]

I haven't listened to the audio blog yet, so I don't want to assume to much about. From that second summary it just sounded like he did address what JonTron said and that he doesn't agree with it at all. I'm not defending TB here, I just thought the extra bit of info that the first summary left out made his response seem more reasonable.

When the majority of the rant is attacking the writer and making excuses and whataboutism deflectioms about the horrific things jontron said, he is tacitly defending him by minimilizing how bad the interview was and try to make a new target for the defense force to target.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

Oh boy, what a surprise that TB gets involved with his tiresome bullshit. Really can't stand the guy, even more so when he refers to himself as a 'British lefty' (hah!).

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

That's the point he was trying to make though. If you write an article like that it should have something of value of it. Fact checks of the various statements he made should at least be a bare minimum.

I don't think he's protecting Jontron in the audioblog. However, the normalizing and the whataboutism has merit in his absense of clarity. When he does these rants he never uses a script and it shows and never get's simply straight to the point and bogs himself down.

I don't think it was his intention to normalize his behaviour, to protect Jontron, but having listened to it al lnow I do think it's very easy for people to get that impression which doesn'nt help him in the slighest either.

The article is about someone with 3 million subscribers saying very racist dumb things. What value should have, aside from showing how a Youtuber with 3million subscribers is a racist and a bigot to incredibly high levels?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

https://youtu.be/UH8cVLeVHEM

HOLY FUCK THIS IS STRONG.

Gives me life.

 

[danm999]

That's the point he was trying to make though. If you write an article like that it should have something of value of it. Fact checks of the various statements he made should at least be a bare minimum.

I don't think he's protecting Jontron in the audioblog. However, the normalizing and the whataboutism has merit in his absense of clarity. When he does these rants he never uses a script and it shows and never get's simply straight to the point and bogs himself down.

I don't think it was his intention to normalize his behaviour, to protect Jontron, but having listened to it al lnow I do think it's very easy for people to get that impression which doesn'nt help him in the slighest either.

He's absolutely trying to deflect and normalise. Nothing in the article attributed to Jon is factually incorrect.

He's seriously attempting the "actually it's about ethics in racist Twitch rant journalism" to create a new villain to bail his mate out.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

It's a trend. Before it was only going up, now it's going down. Can't complain about that.

Eh, I wouldn't be popping out the champagne bottles just yet. Gamers in general are pretty accepting of getting their entertainment from complete shits.

And besides, we have precedent. Remember the huge backlash against the Fine Bros and their React channel? A few months were all they needed to bounce back.

 

[Armaros]

The article is about someone with 3 million subscribers saying very racist dumb things. What value should have, aside from showing how a Youtuber with 3million subscribers is a racist and a bigot to incredibly high levels?

And there isn't anything to cut up and 'contexualize' the entire inerview from start to finish was a shitshow on jontrons part and he spouts crazy alt right bullshit the entire time. And not just some minor point taken out of context.

 

[AlfonzoPalutena]

Just got out with an argument on /r/JonTron. Someone was insisting that slaves weren't kidnapped, but traded to us.

I asked how they came to be in the trader's hands in the first place, and it turns out it was just a societal norm. They weren't kidnapped, it's Africa's fault and the colonial Americans were innocent victims, unknowingly taking actual people.

I guess we all know now that the slaves just signed up to be enslaved for generations. How sweet of them!

 

[tsumineko]

Eh, I wouldn't be popping out the champagne bottles just yet. Gamers in general are pretty accepting of getting their entertainment from complete shits.

And besides, we have precedent. Remember the huge backlash against the Fine Bros and their React channel? A few months were all they needed to bounce back.

I'm not making it bigger than it is, I'm just enjoying the fact that people are unsubbing from him.

 

[Jotaka]

It's amsuing how few people actually take the effort listening and make dumb replies.

This is what he says a bit later on:

- Doesn't agree with Jon Tron in the slighest. He considers himself a Brittish leftie

- Finds Jon Tron's view quite frankly bizarre and wonders how he got them in in his head

- That being said, he seperates the art from the artist because otherwise he wouldn't be able to enjoy a lot anymore since if you go to the source of a lot of media, the creators often don't have great view either.

- Finds Gizmodo's article very poor because they asked for comment 10 minutes before the article went up. Lack of rebuttals to what JonTron said by factual information.

- Finds Gizmodo part of the problem that created the alt-right/white nationalism among gamers. (a surprising vunerable group)


Some of the stuff he says I'm a bit 'eh, a bit of a stretch'. But in no way is he defending JonTron of what he said. But he seems more annoyed at how poorly the article is written overall.

I wasted my time on this shit audio

- 0:00 bashing Gawker
- 2:45 still talking about Gizmodo being lazy (nothing yet about JonTron)
- 3:30 still going on and on about bashing being article being lazy.
- 4:05 FIRST time the name JonTron being talked ohhhh, but still not single word about the content of article
- 5:00 zzzZzz.... still wouldn't know what JonTron said
- 5:55 first time talking about what JonTron said "Jafari also claimed that wealthy black Americans commit..."
- 6:17 TB whining about where is citation like a language teacher. He IS NOT talking about the content of speech. But the grammar... like the article is some kind of master thesis that need source to "refute some claims that JonTron supposed made" <- TB quote. Really, TB? Supposed made? wow...
- 7:17 I am not here to prove or disprove... I am talking the quality of article..


I give up. Don't worth the trouble to timestamp to show TB is an asshole for wasting my time with this fluffy misdirection...

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

That's the point he was trying to make though. If you write an article like that it should have something of value of it. Fact checks of the various statements he made should at least be a bare minimum.

I don't think he's protecting Jontron in the audioblog. However, the normalizing and the whataboutism has merit in his absense of clarity. When he does these rants he never uses a script and it shows and never get's simply straight to the point and bogs himself down.

I don't think it was his intention to normalize his behaviour, to protect Jontron, but having listened to it al lnow I do think it's very easy for people to get that impression which doesn'nt help him in the slighest either.

Fact checking what exactly? He even admits he knows Jon is wrong about pretty much all of them but it's not his responsibility. Yeah, it's great if they wrote some expose that line by line ripped apart everything he said for an hour and a half but they didn't. That doesn't make the article any less credible like he's suggesting or make what JonTron said any less disgusting. It's support by trying to shift all attention and blame from JonTron to a specific article that is like 4 links down the chain from the even that happened and has fuck all to do with anything. He is absolutely normalizing and protecting JonTron or he wouldn't rant for 20 minutes about Gizmodo and saying all of 2 sentences about the actual substance of the article. All he was able to mutter was I'm a lefty so of course I don't agree but it's not my place to decide how or why he believes what he does. He knows what he's doing and apparently is succeeding wonderfully on you. He's a scumbag, just like Jon.

 

[MrJoobJoob]

I don't understand why he feels the need to stick his neck out here. He's very clearly skirting around what Jon actually said and he knows it. I get standing by other youtubers, but surely he must have seen the shit show that was the stream? He isn't worth standing by. That wasn't shock humor, it was neither satire or parody. It was just ignorance and bigotry.

I didn't think TB was like that. I thought he was being misrepresented when people slapped the GG label on him, but maybe I was wrong.

It gets him tweeps + follows + likes + clicks.

TB is a master of Gawker-style clickbait.

 

[ScientificPizza]

https://youtu.be/UH8cVLeVHEM

HOLY FUCK THIS IS STRONG.

i'm crying

 

[Froli]

Honestly, TB should have stayed quiet and concentrate on recuperating from his surgery. He ain't gonna get healthy from this kind of shit

Seriously this JonTron thing is a fucking disaster

 

[wamberz1]

Man that TB audio log... wew. Of course he says that Gizmodo

- took things out of context

- didn't include citations

- is a hit piece

- was part of Gawker and therefore complicit in spreading Hulk Hogan's sex tape

- is against free speech

- is inciting harassment

- is part of the dying liberal media outlets and is just lashing out at YouTube

etc etc etc. Basically every gamergate canard in the book.

this whole thing was going down way before gizmodo,they just decided to run an article on it. Not sure why tb is shooting the messenger for completely unrelated reasons.

 

[Alucrid]

Just got out with an argument on /r/JonTron. Someone was insisting that slaves weren't kidnapped, but traded to us.

I asked how they came to be in the trader's hands in the first place, and it turns out it was just a societal norm. They weren't kidnapped, it's Africa's fault and the colonial Americans were innocent victims, unknowingly taking actual people.

I guess we all know now that the slaves just signed up to be enslaved for generations. How sweet of them!

ben carson is on the jontron reddit?

 

[LionPride]

Just got out with an argument on /r/JonTron. Someone was insisting that slaves weren't kidnapped, but traded to us.

I asked how they came to be in the trader's hands in the first place, and it turns out it was just a societal norm. They weren't kidnapped, it's Africa's fault and the colonial Americans were innocent victims, unknowingly taking actual people.

I guess we all know now that the slaves just signed up to be enslaved for generations. How sweet of them!

Ya know, if they had just admitted that we were not only kidnapped, but also sold by African Warlords and shit it wouldn't have been that bad. But no, Colonial Americans were victims? What?

 

[Dryk]

this whole thing was going down way before gizmodo,they just decided to run an article on it. Not sure why tb is shooting the messenger for completely unrelated reasons.

I know why. It's because he doesn't want to outright defend Jon so he's concern trolling instead.

 

[Village]

I responded, he muted me from his sound cloud thing.

Oh dear.

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

Ultimately this is a good thing. We need to expose these people for who they are and have them shut down. JonTron just helped the discovery process.

It is a little nuts because you don't expect someone from Jon's descent to have racist views, but the power of internalized whiteness can not be overstated. I wasn't surprised with PewDiePie, he's been openly hostile towards people of color such as myself for years.

Hopefully this will get Jon the time he needs to get help.

 

[G0523]

Yahtzee almost always brings diversity up in the context of videogames and their design. I think one of the problems people might have with him is that his ideas assume a level playing field which is not what we're playing on. As one of the posters you quoted mentions, he often seems to follow the "truth is in the middle" fallacy which while quite flawed is at the very least well-meaning and permissive to dissenting viewpoints.

The problem with trying to argue for creative voice being heard above all things is that in our current climate not all voices are heard equally. The argument for vision being paramount works in an ideal world where there is currently no issue with equality, while as it stands we're in a climate where marginalized voices are struggling very hard to be heard. When we do have these less-represented groups currently engaged in that struggle and as part of our videogame demographic, views on diversity like the one Yahtzee proposes without ever being hateful do slow down movements towards correcting the issue. It's not a good argument because if we really were interested in creative vision above all else we should absolutely be working towards fixing the problem for the sake of making sure that meritorious ideas are heard and come to fruition regardless of the sex, color, etc. of the person with the idea.

His "hero and damsel" thing is ridiculously flawed as well, but it's quite self-evident so I won't go into it.

Basically I can see why someone would have issues with what he's saying and there are quite a few things I disagree with him on. I don't think, however, that these constitute bigoted thoughts. Yahtzee has lots of time to prove me wrong but in the meantime I don't see a reason to pull out the torches and pitchforks on him.

That makes sense. Especially now, it's hard to have a level-playing field when everyone is just so divisive and refuses to even listen to each other. Plus, it's hard to get a message out there in a way that won't offend anyone especially when it comes to controversial topics. I'm glad that Yahtzee isn't alt-right but I hope he doesn't slip and fall into that crowd either.

 

[ReginaldXIV]

Yo I'm sick of this bullshit "Divorcing an artist form their art" bullshit

It always comes from people who aren't having the vile shit said against them

In a lot of cases, yes, divorce the art from the artist. But in this case where the "art" is the "artist" (the personality) you really can't, because now the art is tainted.

I feel like this is a case where not saying anything at all would have been better than going on a rant about how crap the article itself was. Even if he doesn't agree with the dude, this rant makes it extremely easy to think he does by passing off the blame to a third party and not directly commenting on the issue. Reeks of damage controlling for a friend of his, and I like TB and I like the Co-optional.

 

[kadotsu]

I responded, he muted me from his sound cloud thing.

Oh dear.

B-b-b-b-but free speech!

 

[Lanrutcon]

I hope that most people can just like Jon for his humor, YouTube videos and his Twitter comedy, instead of demonizing him for some of the poor things that he said.

- Random stupid on reddit

 

[Nanashrew]

I responded, he muted me from his sound cloud thing.

Oh dear.

TB doesn't like to be challenged much like Colin Moriarty.

 

[HazySaiyan]

I responded, he muted me from his sound cloud thing.

Oh dear.

Sounds about right. Typical TB.

 

[ferunnico]

When the majority of the rant is attacking the writer and making excuses and whataboutism deflectioms about the horrific things jontron said, he is tacitly defending him by minimilizing how bad the interview was and try to make a new target for the defense force to target.

Fair enough.

"Pls understand that diluting the gene pool doesn't actually mean diluting the gene pool"

This one's interesting, because I don't think he was actually talking about diluting the gene pool. I can't find it in the video right now but I think he tried to make some other weird argument. I'm not defending him, by the way. I mean, at one point he even more or less admitted to thinking black people commit more crimes because they are black. I just think that gene pool line was a misunderstanding, or maybe I just misunderstood it.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

I watched a bit of the video. Destiny was trying to understand him. I was trying to understand him. I think he was trying to understand what he was saying as it was coming out of his own mouth. It made no sense and was awful.

I watched the whole stream last night.

There really isn't much to misinterpret. Jon was arguing about foreigners diluting the American gene pool, talking about how Mexicans want to come to the US to "get better handouts" and turn the US into Mexico, and condemning BLM as violent while stating "wealthy black men commit more crimes than poor white men," among various other common, vile altright talking points. That wasn't a problem with "structure," there was a problem with the content that leaves little room to understand it as anything other than cultural xenophobia and bigotry.

Fair enough.



This one's interesting, because I don't think he was actually talking about diluting the gene pool. I can't find it in the video right now but I think he tried to make some other weird argument. I'm not defending him, by the way. I mean, at one point he even more or less admitted to thinking black people commit more crimes because they are black. I just think that gene pool line was a misunderstanding, or maybe I just misunderstood it.

The gene pool comment was said regarding immigrants turning white people into a minority. The comment was about about incorporating other ethnicities into our society, similar to King's recent "homogeneity" comments.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Do people like jontron hate how some cities in SoCal, like the one I'm from, are primarily mexican now?

 

[Boke1879]

I responded, he muted me from his sound cloud thing.

Oh dear.

This is typical of people that will call you a snowflake or accuse you of being in a echo chamber. yet the minute you call them out. They block you.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

- Random stupid on reddit

Random stupid is stupid as fuck.

 

[Button]

Has JonTron said some Nazi tier racist shit or is he just against mass immigration?

 

[grim-tales]

I'm really sick of this.

Yes, many gamers are on the autism spectrum. Being on the spectrum is not an excuse to be a shitheel and implying that is insulting to the many decent people on the spectrum. Nor should it serve as an excuse for the many shitheel gamers who are not on the autism spectrum.

Absolutely. Good post

 

[Anung]

I responded, he muted me from his sound cloud thing.

Oh dear.

Guess he needed a...safe space.

 

[MrJoobJoob]

Yo I'm sick of this bullshit "Divorcing an artist form their art" bullshit

It always comes from people who aren't having the vile shit said against them

There's also the fact that in the audiolog he encourages everyone steal a click from the website via archive because he doesn't like Gizmodo.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Fact checking what exactly? He even admits he knows Jon is wrong about pretty much all of them but it's not his responsibility. Yeah, it's great if they wrote some expose that line by line ripped apart everything he said for an hour and a half but they didn't. That doesn't make the article any less credible like he's suggesting or make what JonTron said any less disgusting. It's support by trying to shift all attention and blame from JonTron to a specific article that is like 4 links down the chain from the even that happened and has fuck all to do with anything. He is absolutely normalizing and protecting JonTron or he wouldn't rant for 20 minutes about Gizmodo and saying all of 2 sentences about the actual substance of the article. All he was able to mutter was I'm a lefty so of course I don't agree but it's not my place to decide how or why he believes what he does. He knows what he's doing and apparently is succeeding wonderfully on you. He's a scumbag, just like Jon.

"Foreigners dilute the gene pool"

Why they didn't fact checked that!! Maybe, foreigners DNA did dilutes the gene pool of white people!!!

Fucking liberal media.