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[Gwyn]

Never said that. But they should be building legacy studios with new internally made IP's not relying on paid exclusives to be where we get new IP's.

Sony has a bunch of studios working on New projects that they own. And to your other question, why should anyone need an xbox when most of those are PC as well? And if they're was any kind of agreement, who says they wont come to another platform at a later date.

You know how stupid this sounds?
It's like me saying why should anyone buy multiplatform games on ps4 instead of PC (CoD . GTA etc).

You don't buy a console just for exclusives otherwise ps4 would be dead by now same goes for xbox.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I mean... I'm glad to see stuff like Crackdown, Scalebound, ReCore happening, but I had been hoping to see MS' first party diversity grow, not shrink. Those games are great, but I wanted to see the return of games like Crimson Skies, stuff that makes sense as part of a full fledged lineup, and all indications are that they're shrinking down to their bare essentials.

 

[GeordieMark]

Fostering community is having a guy spewing PR on Twitter?

Because that's all they did, right? Whatever...

 

[Sydle]

Never said that. But they should be building legacy studios with new internally made IP's not relying on paid exclusives to be where we get new IP's.

Sony has a bunch of studios working on New projects that they own. And to your other question, why should anyone need an xbox when most of those are PC as well? And if they're was any kind of agreement, who says they wont come to another platform at a later date.

MS owns the IP of Scalebound, Quantum Break, ReCore, Crackdown, and Killer Instinct, so it's unlikely you'll find them anywhere Microsoft doesn't want them. I suppose MS could sell those IP.

 

[AncientDiety]

Because that's all they did, right? Whatever...

I am asking a question? Examples?

 

[IbizaPocholo]

Anyone can tell me why the close of these studios?Press play making their next game and fable legends nearly closest to complete.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

What are you people talking about? Lol

Halo isn't annual.
Motorsport isn't annual.
Horizon isn't annual.
Gears isn't semi annual. (Why does "semi" mean??)

I've seen multiple people say this. Derp

Are we counting remasters and different franchises/genres...?...still off.

Are we just making things up now?

Halo as a franchise has been an annual franchise for since 2009. There has been a Halo title released in one form or another.

Forza as a franchise has been annual since 2011.

Remasters certainly count.

 

[Papacheeks]

No. I wasn't. Go re-read my post and what exactly I pointed out in yours.

Implying that Sony's the only one "pushing the medium" is ridiculous when they were the ones playing catch-up to Microsoft throughout the majority of Gen7 due to lack of equivalent featureset.

Pushing the medium doesn't involve strictly making neat games, it can also involve evolving established featuresets and shifting focus towards other areas, such as community involvement and network infrastructure. Go look at the community calendars from the early days of the 360. Shit was packed with things to do. Even social game experiments like 1 vs. 100. That shit was prime on Xbox, and without those kinds of innovations, who knows how long it'd take before someone figured out how to implement the features we have now.

And your right on those marks. But let's not kid ourselves during this time frame 2005-2006 the world didn't have the greatest of connections still. So it relied on what all consoles rely on no matter what, which is games. Microsoft relied on the tech, infrastructure to make their niche. Wasnt till "games" like gears of war came out, that really help sell the xbox 360.

Which is why the PS3 started selling after 2008. Games like LBP, Motorstorm, Uncharted 2, MGS4 started getting attention and getting people to buy a more expensive machine with the lesser online experience.

 

[vcc]

I agree with your thought around this but disagree with your conclusion. Yes their plans to capture the living room were destroyed by the smart phone revolution. But xbox is a great way for them to fight their platform wars with windows 10 and the synergy between their universal platform.

I'm pessimistic about the existence of such synergy.

I feel they're doing more a one way transfer of momentum from Xbox to the w10 store. There really isn't any value going in reverse direction. Apps just aren't going to push Xbox the same way ti does phone. The critical one are already there (netflix). Many details of UWP clash with big game development and it's core appeal to gaming is hedging the business cost of targeting the XB1 for medium to small studios. At best it'll promote indie games and iOS style small games.

 

[protomouse]

I see the console warriors have arrived, so I'll make this brief: wishing well for the employees and their families.

 

[Figments]

Saying I said MS never contributed to the medium is a strawman, I never once said or implied it. You put words in my mouth.

>there will always be failures but if your trying to push the medium thats normal, thats what seperates MS and Sony.

This. Right here. I know this is semantics/pedantry at this point, but listen. Your statement directly implies that what separates Sony and MS is that Sony attempts to push the medium. You don't go on to concede that Microsoft has pushed the medium in other directions, you simply continue with the previous implication as though it means something.

I'm fairly, /fairly/ certain this isn't a strawman. But as of this point, any further argument over whether or not it is would only delve into more and more pedantry and actually get nothing done. So I'm leaving this here.

If it is, someone way more knowledgeable than either of us participating in this discussion please tell me.

 

[emptyroom]

damn shame about Press Play. Kalimba was excellent, you should grab a friend and go play it!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why? I find that so odd?

I think they honestly fear Sony's flagship title. It is exceptional, refined, and one of the few sports games that is actually a system seller. It takes a lot of work to get baseball nuances right, and with the tight MLB licensing restrictions, it becomes even harder than it was back when it was more 'Wild West' with licensing in the PS2 era.

Many have tried, and failed. MVP was so close to returning back from the arcade style that was killing baseball games, but 2K went and scooped up the 3rd party baseball licensing as a spite for EA and the NFL global license.

And trust me, as an old school High Heat PC player, I was miffed at the MSFT acquisition that did nothing. Even more pissed when I had a 360 and had to deal with 2K and MSFT still did nothing. That prompted me to buy a PS3 way ahead of when I wanted to in 2008 for MLB 08 The Show. I needed my baseball gaming. I am glad I did however, it afforded me great opportunities going out there for the Community Events for a few years in a row from my Operation Sports interaction, as well as an exceptional game which I figured it would be since The Show first appeared on the PS2, and I was playing 06 on my PS2 at the time I had a 360 because 2K's game was that bad.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Can't agree with that at all. Microsoft have done far more to foster a community than Sony, up until the big hack fiasco. Major Nelson has been a prominent community figurehead for years.

No offense, but we will have to disagree then. Microsoft have proven time and time again, they care very little for anyone outside the hardcore online gamer (and live fee payer).

 

[Nabbis]

I am asking a question? Examples?

Well, the original Xbox did have better social systems when compared to PS2. Beyond that, im not sure they have done anything Sony hasn't.

 

[Markoman]

I think it's less Sony and more internal. Being #2 and selling a ton of units is okay. Sega or Nintendo or Atari would love to be that. But for MS being #2 is substantially less money from licence fees, from live, from cut of DLC/microtransactions and the whole point as to why XBox exists at all became moot.

In 2000, the shareholder messaging for why MS was pouring money into XB was because they would control computing by controlling the living room. They had persistent fears that consoles would become the center of consumer computing and were concerned about being shut out. So they invested in xbox to try to capture that market.

The rise of the smartphone and tablets killed that objective. They were cut out but not by the consoles. Google and Apple cut them out while they were fighting the last console war.

The whole project became pointless for them. That would be okay if they were #1 and if the Return on Investment was a little better. As Xbox ROI is much worse than anything else MS does. So with XB1 they hoped their momentum would carry them and tried to rearrange how the gaming market operates to take a bigger %. Focusing on more digital and the causal market at launch. Which blew up in their faces. At #2, it's just not worth MS time and money to be there.

Nice summary.
BTW: Following the whole Xbox upgrade discussion in the other thread and having looked at your avator so often, I have now reached the point where I believe that you are a chinese terracotta soldier for real.
Does this sometimes happen to you guys,too or should I reduce my daily dosis of alcohol mixed with meds? ;P
If Zedox turns out to be a native american woman, all doors back to sanity are shut for me forever, lol.

 

[L Thammy]

Microsoft Studios is now publishing only the biggest hits

Microsoft did a pretty crap job of making use of Lionhead

Microsoft sucks at F2P

Just glancing at how the post is structured, this looked like it was going to be one of those posts that explains how people are being overly cynical and negative in their grief. Instead it's rationally explaining how they aren't negative or cynical enough. Yikes.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Interesting. Though Microsoft's pivot from investing in their own studios and whatnot has been foreshadowed. I think theyre more interested in providing an ecosystem for developers to put their games on whether it be Xbox or Windows. Though of course leading by example is always best but oh well.

 

[Lucreto]

Exactly.

Microsoft has the most third party relationships in the industry...
Iron Galaxy, Remedy, Insomniac, Platinum, Moon Studios, Armature, Reagent, Playground, etc.

If this is their strategy moving forward, I have no problem with it.

It's good until they cancel the game.

Look at Darkside Games, they went out of business when Phantom Dust was cancelled.

 

[Withnail]

I think it's less Sony and more internal. Being #2 and selling a ton of units is okay. Sega or Nintendo or Atari would love to be that. But for MS being #2 is substantially less money from licence fees, from live, from cut of DLC/microtransactions and the whole point as to why XBox exists at all became moot.

In 2000, the shareholder messaging for why MS was pouring money into XB was because they would control computing by controlling the living room. They had persistent fears that consoles would become the center of consumer computing and were concerned about being shut out. So they invested in xbox to try to capture that market.

The rise of the smartphone and tablets killed that objective. They were cut out but not by the consoles. Google and Apple cut them out while they were fighting the last console war.

The whole project became pointless for them. That would be okay if they were #1 and if the Return on Investment was a little better. As Xbox ROI is much worse than anything else MS does. So with XB1 they hoped their momentum would carry them and tried to rearrange how the gaming market operates to take a bigger %. Focusing on more digital and the causal market at launch. Which blew up in their faces. At #2, it's just not worth MS time and money to be there.

Yep, good post. I think a lot of people don't understand the concept of opportunity cost and why it's a particular issue for MS.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

MS owns the IP of Scalebound, Quantum Break, ReCore, Crackdown, and Killer Instinct, so it's unlikely you'll find them anywhere Microsoft doesn't want them. I suppose MS could sell those IP.

They let Blinx expire although I don't know if they were trying to sell the IP.

 

[Synth]

Turn 10 ill kinda of give you, but 343i and the Coalition are basically custom built factories centred around specific IP. That is not growing a game studio in the same way Gurillla, Japan studio, Naughty dog, SSM or Sucker punch are groomed by Sony.

Yea, Turn 10 was the only real answer. The other two, whilst new studios, are arguably not from scratch (especially in 343i's case). The Coalition is a bit of a grey area though, as the studio was formed before they inherited Gears.

I think comparisons to studios like Guerilla are a bit off-base though. Prior to Horizon, Guerilla have literally been a Killzone factory for two generations, and quite likely still would be if the series had actually become Sony's Halo.

But yea, MS and Sony don't really operate in the same way. MS is far happier to bring in mercenary studios to develop games based on IP that they own, whilst Sony has more of an internal development focus. I don't really think that one approach is objectively superior to the other, and it's mostly just a case of how you balance the two scenarios.

You mean another gears and another halo right? Coalition had a new IP in the works but MS canned it, and gave them a safer paycheck then developing something new from scratch.

Which is what they should have done. Even though I enjoy gears, we've had three games already. Give it a break for a little bit, and let something new take it's place. To me the same is for Halo, and Forza. Bring back Project gotham racing, bring back perfect dark , or create something entirely new.

Sony is doing it with Horizon, Sony Ben'd game not a syphon filter game. Media Molecule not another LBP game, Sucker punch (to my knowledge not a infamous game). Evolution had drive club not another motorstorm game.
TLG not a sequel to ICO or SOTC.
It can be done, but you have to be willing to understand that your going to lose money upfront, but may gain more marketshare and future profitability if the said new RISKY IP sells and becomes a franchise.

Maybe they should have done... I dunno, I never got to play Shangheist, so I don't know if it's prospects actually were better than a Gears 4.

I agree that they should definitely look to bring back some of their older IPs (though, I'm not sure we'd agree on which)... but they're also working on new IP too, it's not like Halo, Gears and Forza is all they're making... and it's not even as tho something featuring one of those names automatically makes it the same game. Forza Horizon is almost as far withdrawn from Forza Motorsport as Project Gotham was. They could easily create a third Forza branch that offers what PGR did, and it being named Forza doesn't make it any less valuable to the player... but probably does help it not to disappear again in the future.

 

[thomasmahler]

I don't understand the last minute cancellation of a F2P game in an otherwise moribund franchise at all.

This game was playable on the show floor at Pax East a year ago.

Maybe MS didn't think that the quality of the game was there? It's a rough decision to make... But honestly, after Fable II, Lionhead has been struggling to make another hit game. That's a long time of not really delivering and this industry is brutal, so I'm not exactly surprised by this news.

What would you have done? Release a bad-quality game or not release it at all? I know that I'd never ever want to release a bad game. It's just bad for everyone involved, it's bad for the gamers, it's bad for the dev studio and it's bad for the publisher. They apparently thought it's better to take the financial hit that comes from this and not release a game that seemingly wasn't up to their quality standards. Personally, I think that's a good choice to make, even though it obviously sucks to see a studio closing down and people losing jobs.

 

[AncientDiety]

>there will always be failures but if your trying to push the medium thats normal, thats what seperates MS and Sony.

This. Right here. I know this is semantics/pedantry at this point, but listen. Your statement directly implies that what separates Sony and MS is that Sony attempts to push the medium. You don't go on to concede that Microsoft has pushed the medium in other directions, you simply continue with the previous implication as though it means something.

I'm fairly, /fairly/ certain this isn't a strawman. But as of this point, any further argument over whether or not it is would only delve into more and more pedantry and actually get nothing done. So I'm leaving this here.

Oh come on, semantics indeed, I meant purely from a IP perspective, context is everything.

 

[shoreu]

Halo as a franchise has been an annual franchise for since 2009. There has been a Halo title released in one form or another.

Forza as a franchise has been annual since 2011.

Remasters certainly count.

No it's not halo, halo Spartan assault, and halo wars are not the same thing. Don't sit here and peddle bullshit here, and forza is biannual

 

[shandy706]

Halo as a franchise has been an annual franchise for since 2009. There has been a Halo title released in one form or another.

Forza as a franchise has been annual since 2011.

Remasters certainly count.

So we're throwing strategy games, first person shooters, 3rd person shooters, sim racers, arcade racers, and any other form of a game into single categories to argue against diversity.

Slowclap.gif

Good stuff.

I don't need to waste time in here.

 

[AncientDiety]

I think they honestly fear Sony's flagship title. It is exceptional, refined, and one of the few sports games that is actually a system seller. It takes a lot of work to get baseball nuances right, and with the tight MLB licensing restrictions, it becomes even harder than it was back when it was more 'Wild West' with licensing in the PS2 era.

Many have tried, and failed. MVP was so close to returning back from the arcade style that was killing baseball games, but 2K went and scooped up the 3rd party baseball licensing as a spite for EA and the NFL global license.

And trust me, as an old school High Heat PC player, I was miffed at the MSFT acquisition that did nothing. Even more pissed when I had a 360 and had to deal with 2K and MSFT still did nothing. That prompted me to buy a PS3 way ahead of when I wanted to in 2008 for MLB 08 The Show.

The show is so good it played a big part in killing 2k baseball....even it outsold 2k just on 1 platform.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Poor people working at those studios.

I freaking loved The Movies, such a loss

 

[mcrommert]

I'm pessimistic about the existence of such synergy.

I feel they're doing more a one way transfer of momentum from Xbox to the w10 store. There really isn't any value going in reverse direction. Apps just aren't going to push Xbox the same way ti does phone. The critical one are already there (netflix). Many details of UWP clash with big game development and it's core appeal to gaming is hedging the business cost of targeting the XB1 for medium to small studios. At best it'll promote indie games and iOS style small games.

For straight gamers? yeah there is really no synergy there...but as a replacement for an htpc its getting better and better... The issues with uwp will mostly be resolved (other than things like code injection which are insecure and few people care about). This larger platform for xbox games to come to will also mean a larger (and much more stable) surface for publishers to write games for that will also lessen the damaging console cycle that leads to a rise and fall in the industry. At least i think this is the hope on the microsoft side...if i was in a more pessimistic mood i would agree with you.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Maybe MS didn't think that the quality of the game was there? It's a rough decision to make... But honestly, after Fable II, Lionhead has been struggling to make another hit game. That's a long time of not really delivering and this industry is brutal, so I'm not exactly surprised by this news.

What would you have done? Release a bad-quality game or not release it at all? I know that I'd never ever want to release a bad game. It's just bad for everyone involved, it's bad for the gamers, it's bad for the dev studio and it's bad for the publisher. They apparently thought it's better to take the financial hit that comes from this and not release a game that seemingly wasn't up to their quality standards. Personally, I think that's a good choice to make, even though it obviously sucks to see a studio closing down and people losing jobs.

How's the mood around the series of bedrooms, living rooms, etc. that is Moon Studios, Thomas?

 

[Leflus]

They let Blinx expire although I don't know if they were trying to sell the IP.

That doesn't mean that they don't still own their Blinx. It just means that other people can make other videogame products under the same name.

Besides. It took a long-ass time for the trademark to expire.

 

[Figments]

And your right on those marks. But let's not kid ourselves during this time frame 2005-2006 the world didn't have the greatest of connections still. So it relied on what all consoles rely on no matter what, which is games. Microsoft relied on the tech, infrastructure to make their niche. Wasnt till "games" like gears of war came out, that really help sell the xbox 360.

Which is why the PS3 started selling after 2008. Games like LBP, Motorstorm, Uncharted 2, MGS4 started getting attention and getting people to buy a more expensive machine with the lesser online experience.

I'll concede to that, yeah, but at the same time, saying or implying that Microsoft didn't do something to shove the industry in an at least more community-driven direction is kind of weird.

 

[RiccochetJ]

That sucks. Hopefully the people affected land in a new spot soon.

 

[KingBroly]

What are you people talking about? Lol

Halo isn't annual.
Motorsport isn't annual.
Horizon isn't annual.
Gears isn't semi annual. (Why does "semi" mean??)

I've seen multiple people say this. Derp

Are we counting remasters and different franchises/genres...?...still off.

Are we just making things up now?

We've had a Halo game 3 years in a row (MCC, 5 and Wars 2); I'm guessing 6 will come next year for 4 in row. There was also that quote a couple of years back where a Microsoft exec said a Halo game every 2 years wasn't enough.

I said Forza, which includes Motorsport AND Horizon, which has clearly been an annual trade-off the last few years.

Gears is purely a guess on my part that it's every other year.

 

[maxcriden]

They let Blinx expire although I don't know if they were trying to sell the IP.

oh, Blinx expired? I should really pick that IP up.

 

[GeordieMark]

I am asking a question? Examples?

Ok. Xbox Live for starters. The design and evolution of the Xbox 360 OS to integrate social features that Sony spent an entire generation trying to keep up with.

Also, your 'question' was more of a snarky remark.

 

[AncientDiety]

I'll concede to that, yeah, but at the same time, saying or implying that Microsoft didn't do something to shove the industry in an at least more community-driven direction is kind of weird.

No one has said this.

Ok. Xbox Live for starters. The design and evolution of the Xbox 360 OS to integrate social features that Sony spent an entire generation trying to keep up with.

Also, your 'question' was more of a snarky remark.

The only thing they really has over sony was party chat no?

 

[DeepEnigma]

The show is so good it played a big part in killing 2k baseball....even it outsold 2k just on 1 platform.

Indeed. Can't not wait until the end of this month!!!

 

[vcc]

Nice summary.
BTW: Following the whole Xbox upgrade discussion in the other thread and having looked at your avator so often, I have now reached the point where I believe that you are a chinese terracotta soldier for real.
Does this sometimes happen to you guys,too or should I reduce my daily dosis of alcohol mixed with meds? ;P
If Zedox turns out to be a native american woman, all doors back to sanity are shut for me forever, lol.

I am in fact an ancient stone statue. Typing is somewhat difficult.

 

[shandy706]

On topic, I hope these guys land on their feet quickly if they're let go.

Tons of memories from Lionhead.

 

[Papacheeks]

MS owns the IP of Scalebound, Quantum Break, ReCore, Crackdown, and Killer Instinct, so it's unlikely you'll find them anywhere Microsoft doesn't want them. I suppose MS could sell those IP.

Yea, I know this but they don't own the studios who make these games. And I haven't seen a great success story when a IP changes hands. Example:Sumo's LBP3, People can Fly's GOW:Judgement. Even God of war ascension didn't pan out well and that was done by a different team within Sony Santa Monica.

If scalebound is as successful as I think it's potential to be then I see it being a franchise like Devil may cry. But QB along with ALan wake have been super expensive ventures. Which is why I think alan wake downloadable game was what it was, and who made it,because of budget.

I just don't see so far a great landscape for MS to have a great internal studio presence. And this along with the reactions from Tim sweeney have been a long time coming in how MS's higher up's have treated/run their division and for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Fuck... Not Lionhead please.

I never LIKED a Fable game, but you can't tear up the Guildford games industry like that. FUCK. Fuck.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

No it's not halo, halo Spartan assault, and halo wars are not the same thing. Don't sit here and peddle bullshit here, and forza is biannual

Forza Motorsport and Horizon are biannual but the Forza IP is annualized.

You don't always get a new Halo FPS every year but there is always a big Halo release.

Not that I think this is a bad thing. I think MS has actually done a pretty good job with these franchises, but I think it's fair to say they've been annualized.

I mean, for a long time Mario was annualized. You were getting either a new 2D or 3D game every year until 2014. Those games were made by different teams and were pretty distinct from each other but it was still fair to call Super Mario an annualized franchise at that point.

 

[Acosta]

Media molecule continue to make whacky games like Dreams.

Quantic Dream don't make direct sequels to games but they have continued to make games based on the same gameplay concepts. You want a sequel to beyond two souls? Good thing Detroit is on its way.

Wouldn't be be surprised if we get a sequel to The Order at some point.

Until Dawn will likely get a sequel, the devs have hinted as such but in the mould of a new IP considering how the game plays out - it would be similar to how Quantic Dream work in that sense.

Folklore won't get a sequel since game republic shut down. And before you say anything, they were independent.

The reality is that Sony continues to invest in their IP's, and if not in the IP itself they allow the developers to continue creating titles in similar fashion even if they might have previously failed either critically or commercially. In Microsofts case, it has become pretty clear over the years that commercial success is all that matters to them, and hence their first party is in the situation it finds itself in today.

Think about it, 15 years in the industry and the only titles that are truly synonymous with the brand are Halo, Gears and Forza. Is that really good enough? Considering the IP's they are sitting on they only have themselves to blame.

Well put.

 

[hemo memo]

Thoughts to those affected who lost their jobs and to find better jobs soon.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

So we're throwing strategy games, first person shooters, 3rd person shooters, sim racers, arcade racers, and any other form of a game into single categories to argue against diversity.

Slowclap.gif

Good stuff.

I don't need to waste time in here.

Just because the genre of the game varies doesn't change the fact that Halo and Forza are annual franchises and have been for years now.

Or do you not know the difference between a franchise and the genre of a game?

 

[vcc]

For straight gamers? yeah there is really no synergy there...but as a replacement for an htpc its getting better and better... The issues with uwp will mostly be resolved (other than things like code injection which are insecure and few people care about). This larger platform for xbox games to come to will also mean a larger (and much more stable) surface for publishers to write games for that will also lessen the damaging console cycle that leads to a rise and fall in the industry. At least i think this is the hope on the microsoft side...if i was in a more pessimistic mood i would agree with you.

I think it has great value for unifying the surface and PC. More because it's utility lines up with the surface and having that cross-platform with the PC is useful. Even a boon to windows phone if that ever picks up.

I just don't see people using the consoles in the same way. The big bulk of that market is folks who want to game but don't want to pay much nor think about it much. It seems to be the reason they still exist. There are lots of folks who want to play traditional games but don't want to deal with the cost and complexity of PC's. For apps, other utility and whatnot they rely on their phones/tablets.

 

[Warxard]

Just because the genre of the game varies doesn't change the fact that Halo and Forza are annual franchises and have been for years now.

Halo isn't annual?

I mean if we're throwing mobile spin-offs and remakes in there Halo isn't annual at all.

 

[Papacheeks]

I'll concede to that, yeah, but at the same time, saying or implying that Microsoft didn't do something to shove the industry in an at least more community-driven direction is kind of weird.

Oh they did, completely agree, but what matter are the games to go along with that community-driven direction. If valve just had a store and not their own legacy of games do you think steam would be where it is today?

Without Half life, we would have no counter strike, no half life 2 deathmatch, mods, now we have people making complete games from mods.

The tech always supports the software. Dreamcast was super advanced but what mattered wasn't that you could play online, it was that they had an amazing lineup of games.

XBox use to be about that in the beginning, now all they care about is how many developers they can get using Azure server's, how many unique people are on xbox live, or how many microtransactions there are bewtween both console and pc platforms.

 

[GeordieMark]

The only thing they really has over sony was party chat no?

And the rest. The 360 was miles ahead of the PS3 in the community regard when both consoles launched. What about stuff like 1 vs 100? It wasn't even close. I had both the PS3 and 360 from the very first day, and a big part of the appeal of the 360 was the community features.