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[garyizraw]

If that's all they have going forward? Yes.

Well i guess you can add Crackdown if you want

 

[Trago]

Halo, Gears, Forza and Rare(Sea of Thieves) is weak?

I guess the big thing here is that there was supposed to be this big push for first party IP's from Microsoft this generation. The new IP's they're funding count, but I guess people don't count them since Microsoft don't own those studios.

We know what to expect from their first party devs, it's been like that for a long time. They'll continue to pump out the big hits.

 

[AncientDiety]

You for real, now?

Outside of pure games, Microsoft's done a shit ton to benefit this industry--standardizing software featuresets, introducing as much plug and play online as plug and play games, prioritizing community involvement over sitting back and watching boxes sell, et cetera.

You can push the medium in different ways from different aspects of the way people play games. Sony and Microsoft are no different in that regard--the only real difference is where that change occurs. Sony prioritizes first party content, Microsoft prioritizes community.

Or however the fuck someone smarter than me finds a way to say it.

Man, I need tea.

As much plug and play? What? MS are awful at this. Remember overpriced MS propretary hard drives? yes x1 still has them. Wheel support is worse, batteries for controllers, etc... I also never said MS never pushed gaming in anyway, nice strawman. PS3 had way better peripheral support then xbox. Are you for real? How has MS prioritized community over sony this gen?

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Halo, Gears, Forza and Rare(Sea of Thieves) is weak?

To people that go all in for those franchises, they are all that matter. To everyone else, they are weak yes. They were weak 6 years ago, and that is the problem. The Halo, Gears, Forza cycle became a joke last gen, and here we are still.

That being so, there is nothing to say MS won't make another Fable game, it just won't be Lionhead making it.

 

[Coxy100]

Just goes to show you how MS never cared in the first place. Xbox division is being run from the higher ups it seems like. Why on earth would they make a billion dollar purchase for Mojang, unless they expected to make money from it off the bat.
Kind of sad to see that the XBox from original Fable, Otagi, Fusion Frenzy, crimson skys, are days of the past now.

Thought maybe MS would be the console corner for PC people to play games they like on console.
Since mostly PC developers are where they started when it came to developers on their first system.

That is indeed sad

 

[Calibos]

If that's all they have going forward? Yes.

If you're not into (or are tired as hell of) shooters, all you have here is a racing game and a new IP of unknown quality. Hell yea the shit is weak. This is why lineup diversity is essential.

Alright, I see the point. I suppose we are way off the original topic anyways. I just wouldn't consider those 4 IP/companies weak in terms of market. Creatively weak these days, yes.

 

[Figments]

As much plug and play? What? MS are awful at this. Remember overpriced MS propretary hard drives? yes x1 still has them. Wheel support is worse. I also never said MS never puished gaming in anyway, nice strawman. PS3 had way better peripheral support then xbox. Are you for real? How has MS proritized community over sony this gen?

You realize I wasn't talking about peripherals, right?

Nah its okay...lets keep dismissing what Microsoft has done for the medium and what their platform has enabled for pc gamers. Its cool...its been weeks of this at this point. Thanks for reminding me its time for tea.

Getting me some nice sweet tea because I'm out of Earl Grey. Fuck me and my lack of money.

 

[Papacheeks]

Turn 10?

technically:
343i
The Coalition

You mean another gears and another halo right? Coalition had a new IP in the works but MS canned it, and gave them a safer paycheck then developing something new from scratch.

Which is what they should have done. Even though I enjoy gears, we've had three games already. Give it a break for a little bit, and let something new take it's place. To me the same is for Halo, and Forza. Bring back Project gotham racing, bring back perfect dark , or create something entirely new.

Sony is doing it with Horizon, Sony Ben'd game not a syphon filter game. Media Molecule not another LBP game, Sucker punch (to my knowledge not a infamous game). Evolution had drive club not another motorstorm game.
TLG not a sequel to ICO or SOTC.
It can be done, but you have to be willing to understand that your going to lose money upfront, but may gain more marketshare and future profitability if the said new RISKY IP sells and becomes a franchise.

 

[Markoman]

Yes very, when the competition has well over 20 studios.

Especially with Sea of Thieves receiving so much up-front credit.
It may turn out to be your typical generic F2P game, with hudreds of samey titles on the same paying-field on PC. Don't get the enthusiasm...got to be a 'Rare will rise from the dead' kind of thing.

 

[AncientDiety]

You realize I wasn't talking about peripherals, right?

Still doesn't change the fact you invented a strawman.

 

[uncledonnie]

Well besides those three Halo, Gears, and Forza all their other stuff is developed by 3rd parties.

Yeah outside of those it seems like the norm will be Microsoft-owned IP that is developed by non-Microsoft owned studios.

It's a bold strategy, let's see if it pays off.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Smaller picture

You must be sitting too far from the monitor .

 

[mcrommert]

You mean another gears and another halo right? Coalition had a new IP in the works but MS canned it, and gave them a safer paycheck then developing something new from scratch.

Which is what they should have done. Even though I enjoy gears, we've had three games already. Give it a break for a little bit, and let something new take it's place. To me the same is for Halo, and Forza. Bring back Project gotham racing, bring back perfect dark , or create something entirely new.

Sony is doing it with Horizon, Sony Ben'd game not a syphon filter game. Media Molecule not another LBP game, Sucker punch (to my knowledge not a infamous game). Evolution had drive club not another motorstorm game.
TLG not a sequel to ICO or SOTC.
It can be done, but you have to be willing to understand that your going to lose money upfront, but may gain more marketshare and future profitability if the said new RISKY IP sells and becomes a franchise.

Microsoft is doing Recore, Scalebound, and Sea Thieves. Just because they aren't doing them in their own studios doesn't make them not games they are making.

 

[AncientDiety]

Nah its okay...lets keep dismissing what Microsoft has done for the medium and what their platform has enabled for pc gamers. Its cool...its been weeks of this at this point. Thanks for reminding me its time for tea.

Quite the strawman, show me anyone who said MS did nothing for the medium?

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Just goes to show you how MS never cared in the first place. Xbox division is being run from the higher ups it seems like. Why on earth would they make a billion dollar purchase for Mojang, unless they expected to make money from it off the bat.
Kind of sad to see that the XBox from original Fable, Otagi, Fusion Frenzy, crimson skys, are days of the past now.

Thought maybe MS would be the console corner for PC people to play games they like on console.
Since mostly PC developers are where they started when it came to developers on their first system.

For real. This is so sad...

 

[KingBroly]

If that's all they have going forward? Yes. They have other stuff like KI, Scalebound, Crackdown, etc. but none of these are being developed by internal studios. That's fine but it's still pretty sad to see how few first party studios they have in 2016.

Are we assuming they stay first party, though?

Microsoft, even at their peak in the 360, didn't have much software diversity IMO

Right now they have
- Annual Halo
- Annual Forza
- Semi-Annual Gears
- KI as a service
- Rare...whenever they put out a game, if they stay in it

Even if you throw the Kinect stuff in for what Rare was doing and Fable, they never really had much diversity or patience enough to get there. But this really feels like they're thinning out the ranks for their future elsewhere.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Wow. Figured Fable will be around for a few more gens at least. Sympathy for all those affected.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Everyone forgets the show and it drives me, it's such a consistently great franchise.

Agreed. Best sports franchise out there.

MSFT owns the High Heat license. They bought it, and did NOTHING with it. Sad, considering Xbox gamers could have had a first party baseball game as well, and now since 2K could not make a good game last gen, they have nothing.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

My god.

Holy shit, this actually came out of nowhere.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

As much plug and play? What? MS are awful at this. Remember overpriced MS propretary hard drives? yes x1 still has them. Wheel support is worse, batteries for controllers, etc... I also never said MS never puished gaming in anyway, nice strawman. PS3 had way better peripheral support then xbox. Are you for real? How has MS proritized community over sony this gen?

I will also argue that the only community Microsoft has ever cared about has been the competitive hardcore community. Community features like shareplay, outreach like forums and social media have never been Microsofts strong suit.

The fact that there is a passionate community that formed around Microsofts products and IPs has nothing to do with the company itself. They are meerly taking advantage of it.

 

[Trago]

Yeah outside of those it seems like the norm will be Microsoft-owned IP that is developed by non-Microsoft owned studios.

It's a bold strategy, let's see if it pays off.

I don't know how I feel about this.

Obviously there's great talent at the studios Microsoft run under them. It's a shame that most of them have to work on the same IP's over and over.

 

[Figments]

Still doesn't change the fact you invented a strawman.

No. I wasn't. Go re-read my post and what exactly I pointed out in yours.

Implying that Sony's the only one "pushing the medium" is ridiculous when they were the ones playing catch-up to Microsoft throughout the majority of Gen7 due to lack of equivalent featureset.

Pushing the medium doesn't involve strictly making neat games, it can also involve evolving established featuresets and shifting focus towards other areas, such as community involvement and network infrastructure. Go look at the community calendars from the early days of the 360. Shit was packed with things to do. Even social game experiments like 1 vs. 100. That shit was prime on Xbox, and without those kinds of innovations, who knows how long it'd take before someone figured out how to implement the features we have now.

 

[Ominym]

Well you wouldn't have gotten it from Lionhead anyway. EA still owns the IP; Microsoft didn't bother to buy it from them.

Ah, I didn't know that. Not like that instills any more confidence in me anyway though.

 

[AncientDiety]

No. I wasn't. Go re-read my post and what exactly I pointed out in yours.

Implying that Sony's the only one "pushing the medium" is ridiculous when they were the ones playing catch-up to Microsoft throughout the majority of Gen7 due to lack of equivalent featureset.

Pushing the medium doesn't involve strictly making neat games, it can also involve evolving established featuresets and shifting focus towards other areas, such as community involvement and network infrastructure. Go look at the community calendars from the early days of the 360. Shit was packed with things to do.

That's wrong, Sony does however do this more often and sticks with it then MS as another poster listed, despite some being financial falures, , that does not mean they did NOT push the medium on other areas, again typical strawman.

 

[nubbe]

unexpected
could almost interpret it as they are cutting their losses for an exit

 

[gamz]

Agreed. Best sports franchise out there.

MSFT owns the High Heat license. They bought it, and did NOTHING with it. Sad, considering Xbox gamers could have had a first party baseball game as well, and now since 2K could not make a good game last gen, they have nothing.

What?!?! I didn't know this! It always pissed me off that Xbox doesn't have a baseball series. Sell it to EA then.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Do you see any scenario in which Rare's f2p game fits in with Microsoft when all this other stuff didn't?

Is Sea of Thieves F2P?

 

[vcc]

There is no value to owning one now. All the games they announced as "exclusive" years ago will be available on PC for them to try (and fail) promote the windows store. Gaming on PC is great because it's so open, they are just trying to lure people and lock it.

They fucked up big, and Sonys success is driving them mad trying to get their fingers in each pot and lock it down.

I think it's less Sony and more internal. Being #2 and selling a ton of units is okay. Sega or Nintendo or Atari would love to be that. But for MS being #2 is substantially less money from licence fees, from live, from cut of DLC/microtransactions and the whole point as to why XBox exists at all became moot.

In 2000, the shareholder messaging for why MS was pouring money into XB was because they would control computing by controlling the living room. They had persistent fears that consoles would become the center of consumer computing and were concerned about being shut out. So they invested in xbox to try to capture that market.

The rise of the smartphone and tablets killed that objective. They were cut out but not by the consoles. Google and Apple cut them out while they were fighting the last console war.

The whole project became pointless for them. That would be okay if they were #1 and if the Return on Investment was a little better. As Xbox ROI is much worse than anything else MS does. So with XB1 they hoped their momentum would carry them and tried to rearrange how the gaming market operates to take a bigger %. Focusing on more digital and the causal market at launch. Which blew up in their faces. At #2, it's just not worth MS time and money to be there.

 

[CrispyBoar]

Why are people trying to spin this as a "Mattrick game" when Phil Spencers job has involved directly overseeing Lionhead since 2008?

Because they don't want to face the harsh truth.

 

[Papacheeks]

Microsoft is doing Recore, Scalebound, and Sea Thieves. Just because they aren't doing them in their own studios doesn't make them not games they are making.

Never said that. But they should be building legacy studios with new internally made IP's not relying on paid exclusives to be where we get new IP's.

Sony has a bunch of studios working on New projects that they own. And to your other question, why should anyone need an xbox when most of those are PC as well? And if they're was any kind of agreement, who says they wont come to another platform at a later date.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What?!?! I didn't know this! It always pissed me off that Xbox doesn't have a baseball series. Sell it to EA then.

EA still owns their MVP IP, and rumor had it that they were going to make one when the 2K third party license exclusivity expired... but we are now 3 seasons into the current gen, and nothing.

Sad part is, MSFT has had the IP since 2003. It just went there to die.

Luckily Sony San Diego did an admirable job by exceeding that sim-style pitcher vs. batter gameplay. It would be hard for a newcomer to compete at the moment.

 

[EpicBox]

Shame. Lionhead was one of the UK's biggest gaming employers. This is a disaster for the UK gaming economy.

 

[Figments]

That's wrong, Sony does however do this more often and sticks with it then MS as another poster listed, despite some being financial falures, , that does not mean they did NOT push the medium on other areas, again typical strawman.

How is what you highlighted supposedly wrong? There's a lot of shit that happens outside of the game-making process itself that benefits games.

Please explain how this is a strawman. I am genuinely confused.

 

[gamz]

EA still owns their MVP IP, and rumor had it that they were going to make one when the 2K third party license exclusivity expired... but we are now 3 seasons into the current gen, and nothing.

Why? I find that so odd?

 

[EGM1966]

Damn. Hope those who've lost their jobs are okay and find new employment quickly.

 

[mcrommert]

You realize I wasn't talking about peripherals, right?



Getting me some nice sweet tea because I'm out of Earl Grey. Fuck me and my lack of money.

I have earl gray with silk bags

I think it's less Sony and more internal. Being #2 and selling a ton of units is okay. Sega or Nintendo or Atari would love to be that. But for MS being #2 is substantially less money from licence fees, from live, from cut of DLC/microtransactions and the whole point as to why XBox exists at all became moot.

In 2000, the shareholder messaging for why MS was pouring money into XB was because they would control computing by controlling the living room. They had persistent fears that consoles would become the center of consumer computing and were concerned about being shut out. So they invested in xbox to try to capture that market.

The rise of the smartphone and tablets killed that objective. They were cut out but not by the consoles. Google and Apple cut them out while they were fighting the last console war.

The whole project became pointless for them. That would be okay if they were #1 and if the Return on Investment was a little better. As Xbox ROI is much worse than anything else MS does. So with XB1 they hoped their momentum would carry them and tried to rearrange how the gaming market operates to take a bigger %. Focusing on more digital and the causal market at launch. Which blew up in their faces. At #2, it's just not worth MS time and money to be there.

I agree with your thought around this but disagree with your conclusion. Yes their plans to capture the living room were destroyed by the smart phone revolution. But xbox is a great way for them to fight their platform wars with windows 10 and the synergy between their universal platform.

 

[AncientDiety]

How is what you highlighted supposedly wrong? There's a lot of shit that happens outside of the game-making process itself that benefits games.

Please explain how this is a strawman. I am genuinely confused.

Saying I said MS never contributed to the medium is a strawman, I never once said or implied it. You put words in my mouth.

 

[GeordieMark]

I will also argue that the only community Microsoft has ever cared about has been the competitive hardcore community. Community features like shareplay, outreach like forums and social media have never been Microsofts strong suit.

The fact that there is a passionate community that formed around Microsofts products and IPs has nothing to do with the company itself. They are meerly taking advantage of it.

Can't agree with that at all. Microsoft have done far more to foster a community than Sony, up until the big hack fiasco. Major Nelson has been a prominent community figurehead for years.

 

[Maximo]

What I wouldn't give for a next gen fable..

 

[Baroquemantic]

Oh wow, didn't see this coming. I hope everyone losing their jobs are able to land on their feet very soon.

 

[Leflus]

Never said that. But they should be building legacy studios not relying on paid exclusives to be where we get new IP's.

Sony has a bunch of studios working on New projects that they own. And to your other question, why should anyone need an xbox when most of those are PC as well? And if they're was any kind of agreement, who says they wont come to another platform at a later date.

Internal studios make paid exclusives as well. Those devs aren't working for free.

Or are you implying that Microsoft's partnerships such as Quantum Break or Scalebound are moneyhats? If so, that's a very eyeroll-worthy statement.

 

[shandy706]

Are we assuming they stay first party, though?

Microsoft, even at their peak in the 360, didn't have much software diversity IMO

Right now they have
- Annual Halo
- Annual Forza
- Semi-Annual Gears
- KI as a service
- Rare...whenever they put out a game, if they stay in it

What are you people talking about? Lol

Halo isn't annual.
Motorsport isn't annual.
Horizon isn't annual.
Gears isn't semi annual. (Why does "semi" mean??)

I've seen multiple people say this. Derp

Are we counting remasters and different franchises/genres...?...still off.

Are we just making things up now?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I think it's less Sony and more internal. Being #2 and selling a ton of units is okay. Sega or Nintendo or Atari would love to be that. But for MS being #2 is substantially less money from licence fees, from live, from cut of DLC/microtransactions and the whole point as to why XBox exists at all became moot.

In 2000, the shareholder messaging for why MS was pouring money into XB was because they would control computing by controlling the living room. They had persistent fears that consoles would become the center of consumer computing and were concerned about being shut out. So they invested in xbox to try to capture that market.

The rise of the smartphone and tablets killed that objective. They were cut out but not by the consoles. Google and Apple cut them out while they were fighting the last console war.

The whole project became pointless for them. That would be okay if they were #1 and if the Return on Investment was a little better. As Xbox ROI is much worse than anything else MS does. So with XB1 they hoped their momentum would carry them and tried to rearrange how the gaming market operates to take a bigger %. Focusing on more digital and the causal market at launch. Which blew up in their faces. At #2, it's just not worth MS time and money to be there.

Yeah, this is how I'm reading things as well. Xbox was created to control the living room. XB1 was supposed to be the endgame but it backfired. If I'm running MS, I'm not really seeing the need to continue this venture, so within that context, the recent Xbox platform changes and these studio closures make perfect sense. Xbox is basically going to become MS's overarching gaming brand and you'll be able to experience these games in a variety of ways, through a number of outlets. PCs, consoles, mobile, etc.

I'm honestly going to be surprised if Xbox Two is a traditional console.

 

[AncientDiety]

Can't agree with that at all. Microsoft have done far more to foster a community than Sony, up until the big hack fiasco. Major Nelson has been a prominent community figurehead for years.

Fostering community is having a guy spewing PR on Twitter?

 

[Nabbis]

Feels like Xbox is run by people who don't get gaming, at all. Which is weird given that Phil does seem to have some personal experience with it?

 

[cilonen]

I think it's less Sony and more internal. Being #2 and selling a ton of units is okay. Sega or Nintendo or Atari would love to be that. But for MS being #2 is substantially less money from licence fees, from live, from cut of DLC/microtransactions and the whole point as to why XBox exists at all became moot.

In 2000, the shareholder messaging for why MS was pouring money into XB was because they would control computing by controlling the living room. They had persistent fears that consoles would become the center of consumer computing and were concerned about being shut out. So they invested in xbox to try to capture that market.

The rise of the smartphone and tablets killed that objective. They were cut out but not by the consoles. Google and Apple cut them out while they were fighting the last console war.

The whole project became pointless for them. That would be okay if they were #1 and if the Return on Investment was a little better. As Xbox ROI is much worse than anything else MS does. So with XB1 they hoped their momentum would carry them and tried to rearrange how the gaming market operates to take a bigger %. Focusing on more digital and the causal market at launch. Which blew up in their faces. At #2, it's just not worth MS time and money to be there.

Bingo. So many good posts hitting in this thread. I'm gutted about the situation but it's really hitting home today. Stump's epic post five or so pages back too. Lots to think about and process here.

 

[WordsintheWater]

What I wouldn't give for a next gen fable..

Same here, a proper Fable that is.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

How is what you highlighted supposedly wrong? There's a lot of shit that happens outside of the game-making process itself that benefits games.

Please explain how this is a strawman. I am genuinely confused.

The disc that your Xbox one game comes on is both a Sony invention, and something they pushed hard for, to the detriment of their sales in the previous gen.

 

[mcrommert]

Never said that. But they should be building legacy studios with new internally made IP's not relying on paid exclusives to be where we get new IP's.

Sony has a bunch of studios working on New projects that they own. And to your other question, why should anyone need an xbox when most of those are PC as well? And if they're was any kind of agreement, who says they wont come to another platform at a later date.

This whole "if all the xbox exclusives are on pc why would you buy an xbox" stuff is crazy to me. The vast majority of the market that want to play things like halo and gears are looking for an inexpensive console and the ease of use consoles have. PC isn't even something they are thinking about. You also list no reason why they should be building studios over using outside contracting...just that they should. I would argue for the greater gaming economy them pumping money outside their walls is a great thing.

 

[Leflus]

What I wouldn't give for a next gen fable..

Same here, a proper Fable that is.

Same.