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[RevoDS]

If you have MBPR, the ML is worth far more than $20 (although you get it for free if you buy one). it makes it into a new computer almost They really goofed for even shipping that thing with Lion.

I've only got a 2009 13-incher, but I don't doubt it. They probably should have announced it at WWDC but with a "ships in July" kind of thing. One month later, but massively improved first impressions sounds like a good trade.

That said, one question for those who've used the betas...in Safari, is there a way to remove or switch the Google search thing with the history? I dread having to hit the down button several times just to get to my commonly used websites.

 

[Lord Error]

That said, one question for those who've used the betas...in Safari, is there a way to remove or switch the Google search thing with the history? I dread having to hit the down button several times just to get to my commonly used websites.

Yeah, it would be nice if hitting up key would work, but it doesn't.

 

[NekoFever]

Tiger? You mean Lion? Tiger was sooo long ago. The last PowerPC only OS X actually.

Tiger wasn't PPC-only. My first Intel Mac was the second or third gen MacBook Pro (whichever one came with the Core 2 Duo) and that shipped with Tiger.

 

[The Real Abed]

My mistake. It came out right before the transition announcement.

 

[ascii42]

Tiger wasn't PPC-only. My first Intel Mac was the second or third gen MacBook Pro (whichever one came with the Core 2 Duo) and that shipped with Tiger.

The first few versions of Tiger were PPC only. 10.4.4 was the first to run on both. So in a manner of speaking, he was correct.

 

[The Real Abed]

Yeah, the first Intel Macs weren't released until early 2006 and by then Tiger was 10.4.4. I guess since Leopard didn't come out for a year and a half, Tiger was more of the last PowerPC OS X I guess than I thought. Leopard was the last OS X to run on PowerPC. My mistake. I forgot the big deal they made about Snow Leopard when they "trimmed the fat" and dumped PPC support. At that point it was more than 3 years since the Intel switch started.

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

So I had a blast on this today.
Quick question:

For new mails to show up in Notification Center, do you constantly have to have Mail running?
I assumed not but no notifications would appear until I opened Mail.....

Also, how does the offline Reading List work?
I tried testing it and added a page to the Reading List.
Dialogue appeared underneath the item stating it was 'saving for offline reading.'
Once saved, I disconnected wi-fi and clicked on the page.
I was then met with a 'you are not connected to the internet and cannot access this page' message...

 

[KtSlime]

So I had a blast on this today.
Quick question:

For new mails to show up in Notification Center, do you constantly have to have Mail running?
I assumed not but no notifications would appear until I opened Mail.....

Also, how does the offline Reading List work?
I tried testing it and added a page to the Reading List.
Dialogue appeared underneath the item stating it was 'saving for offline reading.'
Once saved, I disconnected wi-fi and clicked on the page.
I was then met with a 'you are not connected to the internet and cannot access this page' message...

Yes, it needs to be running - but Mail is constantly running in the background on iOS as well. Some people don't like it, but I think it makes more sense than adding IMAP, POP, Exchange, etc protocols directly to Notification Center. If you quit Mail, it will keep the existing notifications in NC, but obviously can't get new ones.

I haven't experienced that last problem.

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

Ahh I see thanks for the answer.
Though understandable it's disappointing as it seems Notification Centre will be less useful than I anticipated.
Does the same go for the other applications? As in will I need Messages, Calender, et al all open?

 

[LCfiner]

i gotta say I don’t see what the problem is with leaving all those apps open and just hiding the windows. I leave all of those open all the time. they don’t get in the way.

 

[KtSlime]

Ahh I see thanks for the answer.
Though understandable it's disappointing as it seems Notification Centre will be less useful than I anticipated.
Does the same go for the other applications? As in will I need Messages, Calender, et al all open?

The other ones are fine since most (Messages) tap directly into push notifications, Calendar's data is pretty much static between launches, so it too is unaffected. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about Mail taking up resources. They have done wonderful things with its diet, with the window closed it probably doesn't take much more than 70-80MB of ram - this number subject to how many messages are in your inbox of course.

 

[The Real Abed]

Yes, it needs to be running - but Mail is constantly running in the background on iOS as well. Some people don't like it, but I think it makes more sense than adding IMAP, POP, Exchange, etc protocols directly to Notification Center. If you quit Mail, it will keep the existing notifications in NC, but obviously can't get new ones.

I haven't experienced that last problem.

I think it's really stupid. Mail should have a daemon running that constantly keeps up to date with the mail and notifies you when there's new stuff. It's the only app that seems to need its main app running. I am disappointed in.

Also the Finder is just as shitty as ever sadly. No effort there at all.

 

[KtSlime]

I think it's really stupid. Mail should have a daemon running that constantly keeps up to date with the mail and notifies you when there's new stuff. It's the only app that seems to need its main app running. I am disappointed in.

Also the Finder is just as shitty as ever sadly. No effort there at all.

I'm more upset that Finder still hasn't been killed, but yeah, I suppose they could do a daemon, although it'd still be a pretty big daemon, Mail supports quite a few protocols, and it would still need to link into Contacts to be able to include the senders name for the notification title, it'd have to have be able to read Mail's storage so that clicking on the notification can bring up the right email, and a few other things I am sure. It'd likely have to be linked to the Cocoa libraries which add an extra 10MB to the process. I bet they figured that everyone has been running mail for the past 20 years anyway, why go to the hassle to break it into frontend and backend - what's a measly 70MB anyway*?

Maybe OS X 10.9 Lion's Head Nebula...

*~1.7% of the ram of the lowest end currently shipping mac

 

[The Real Abed]

I somehow doubt this is the Mountain Lion that is going to ship. I have so many terrible bugs it's not funny. My worst one is when my WiFi refuses to connect to the internet after waking up. I usually have to reboot to get internet back. And sometimes it doesn't even connect then.

My least annoying bug is that I don't have ANY user interface sounds anymore. Anyone else have this? No trash delete sound. No empty trash sound. No screenshot camera sound. The option is turned on in Preferences for UI sounds. I don't know why they no longer play.

 

[giga]

Just thought of something. Does anyone have an Airport Express with speakers connected to it?

If you do, go to your sound output settings and see if you can set the airport express as your output device. Since AirPlay is built in now, it should technically be possible to stream all system audio to airplay speakers without needing something like AirFoil.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I somehow doubt this is the Mountain Lion that is going to ship. I have so many terrible bugs it's not funny. My worst one is when my WiFi refuses to connect to the internet after waking up. I usually have to reboot to get internet back. And sometimes it doesn't even connect then.

My least annoying bug is that I don't have ANY user interface sounds anymore. Anyone else have this? No trash delete sound. No empty trash sound. No screenshot camera sound. The option is turned on in Preferences for UI sounds. I don't know why they no longer play.

Out of curiosity, did you clean install or upgrade? May want to do a Time Machine backup and then do a clean install, only restoring documents/transferring them manually.

 

[The Real Abed]

Out of curiosity, did you clean install or upgrade? May want to do a Time Machine backup and then do a clean install, only restoring documents/transferring them manually.

There was no option. It went right into the install. I'll save a restore for when the final version comes out and I purchase it for all my computers.

 

[frico]

Just thought of something. Does anyone have an Airport Express with speakers connected to it?

If you do, go to your sound output settings and see if you can set the airport express as your output device. Since AirPlay is built in now, it should technically be possible to stream all system audio to airplay speakers without needing something like AirFoil.

I do not have airport express but I have a receiver that supports airplay and an Apple TV. I can output my system audio directly to either of the aforementioned 2 devices.

 

[giga]

I do not have airport express but I have a receiver that supports airplay and an Apple TV. I can output my system audio directly to either of the aforementioned 2 devices.

Damn, if I can cut another wire then that'd be awesome. Can you test some video playback (like on Youtube or Quicktime) and see if there's any noticeable delay or if its out of sync between your display and airplay speakers?

 

[frico]

Damn, if I can cut another wire then that'd be awesome. Can you test some video playback (like on Youtube or Quicktime) and see if there's any noticeable delay or if its out of sync between your display and airplay speakers?

Unfortunately (for me) my barely 2 years old mid 2010 macbook is not eligible for airplay mirroring. Haters.

 

[giga]

Unfortunately (for me) my barely 2 years old mid 2010 macbook is not eligible for airplay mirroring. Haters.

No what I mean is regular audio streaming, not mirroring. Like, try playing a Youtube video on your computer monitor and then stream the audio to your receiver or apple tv and see if the video and audio are in sync or if there's a delay between the two.

 

[frico]

No what I mean is regular audio streaming, not mirroring. Like, try playing a Youtube video on your computer monitor and then stream the audio to your receiver or apple tv and see if the video and audio are in sync or if there's a delay between the two.

Gotcha, it's a mixed bag. I just tested TDKR trailer from youtube - not in sync at all. I tested the same trailer from apple.com and it was in sync.... I also tested an MKV on playing in VLC and that was out of sync. However, my mac was pulling the MKV from a nas drive and then shooting the sound to my receiver.

 

[The Real Abed]

It's because the app needs to be designed for AirPlay. In order for the audio to be in sync, the video needs to be delayed. Apple's Trailers are played via HTML5 and WebKit which is designed for AirPlay.

Flash is not.

VLC is currently not.

QuickTime probably is.

Until everything is coded to be "AirPlay Aware", you're going to have unsynced video and audio.

 

[SuperEpicMan]

When in zeus' beard is this damn OS coming out lol

 

[giga]

Sparrow acquired by Google…what the shit.

http://sprw.me/

Hope they don't fuck with the app.

 

[infiniteloop]

When in zeus' beard is this damn OS coming out lol

July 25th

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

How will multiple installations work?
I have an iMac and MacBook in the house. Will that mean having to purchase the Family Pack to update both?

 

[Lord Error]

There was no option. It went right into the install. I'll save a restore for when the final version comes out and I purchase it for all my computers.

Yeah, I'm not even sure if you can do a clean install with current ML GM. Also not sure if it will be possible with the app store download of the final version now that I think about it.

 

[celebi23]

Sparrow acquired by Google…what the shit.

http://sprw.me/

Hope they don't fuck with the app.

Yeah, just saw this Looks like they won't be adding any new features, only critical patches Looks like the iOS version will never get push notifications after all Fucking shame really

 

[hirokazu]

How will multiple installations work?
I have an iMac and MacBook in the house. Will that mean having to purchase the Family Pack to update both?

Family packs haven't existed since Snow Leopard. Now you buy once and install on all computers tied to the same Mac App Store account.

 

[renitou]

Yeah, I'm not even sure if you can do a clean install with current ML GM.

You can. I did.

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

Family packs haven't existed since Snow Leopard. Now you buy once and install on all computers tied to the same Mac App Store account.

Oh I see!
What stops me creating a new user account on a different machine, logging in with my App Store account and re-downloading it there, in effect giving it to somebody else for free?

 

[Lord Error]

You can. I did.

Can you point me to instructions?

 

[mrkgoo]

Oh I see!
What stops me creating a new user account on a different machine, logging in with my App Store account and re-downloading it there, in effect giving it to somebody else for free?

From my understanding, not much. Although if they ever reinstalled, they would need an account that had purchased a copy.

apple has always been like this. Aside from their pro software, most of their software has always been license by agreement, with no DRM.

For example, their OS sold on discs have always been no key. Install on whatever machine (even though technically you were breaking agreement). Same with other apps such as iLife. There were never any restrictions in place to stop you.

It was like an honour system. I think mostly they didn't. Care about piracy as such. Since they made the hardware and software, you had already paid by having a Mac, so they just used an honour system.

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

Thanks for the explanation.
It's odd as it's one of those things Apple could easily lock down, so it certainly seems rather intentional. This coupled with the increasingly lowering prices on OS updates suggests that they just want people using it, full stop. How it's obtained is seemingly unimportant.

Although I do wonder if forcing updates through the App Store which requires an account to use isn't in-fact a combative measure against this sharing of software.....

 

[CorrisD]

Seeing as this will be out soon'ish, I am considering getting a new HDD for my Macbook, this 160GB fills up pretty fast and I want to bootcamp with Windows in the future.

So a quick question.
If I buy a new HDD and swap them out, if I put the existing one in an enclosure can I access all my files that are on my Macbook HDD without a problem and just pull what files I want to from it before formatting it?

 

[infiniteloop]

Seeing as this will be out soon'ish, I am considering getting a new HDD for my Macbook, this 160GB fills up pretty fast and I want to bootcamp with Windows in the future.

So a quick question.
If I buy a new HDD and swap them out, if I put the existing one in an enclosure can I access all my files that are on my Macbook HDD without a problem and just pull what files I want to from it before formatting it?

yes

 

[Whogie]

New one in enclosure.
Reboot to recovery mode.
Disk Utility -> Format new one -> Clone (restore tab)
Wait 4 hours

 

[SuperEpicMan]

July 25th

Sweet

 

[SuperEpicMan]

Does anybody know how big the download would be and how long it would take approximately to install.

 

[infiniteloop]

The GM installer is 4.37GB, so I would imagine it'll be close to that if not identical.
Installation would depend on hardware, but probably around 30-45 mins.

 

[SuperEpicMan]

The GM installer is 4.37GB, so I would imagine it'll be close to that if not identical.
Installation would depend on hardware, but probably around 30-45 mins.

Ah that isn't as big as I imagined, 5 gb will take ages over my internet though lol

 

[The Real Abed]

Oh I see!
What stops me creating a new user account on a different machine, logging in with my App Store account and re-downloading it there, in effect giving it to somebody else for free?

You don't even need to do that. Just make a copy of the app that downloads into your Applications folder. I do. I keep a backup, not that it's required since it really is meant to be a one-off app. Still.

The only thing I don't know is if the App itself is connected to your account. Either way, the DMG inside the App is NOT connected to your account. Which is why you can install it on all your own Macs without having to enter a login.

Yeah, I'm not even sure if you can do a clean install with current ML GM. Also not sure if it will be possible with the app store download of the final version now that I think about it.

Hopefully it will. Not that you couldn't cancel it then reboot with Option held and install from the newly created Recovery Partition. (I assume the Recovery Partition is created during the pre-reboot part of the process. But don't quote me on that.) Either way, you can always reformat later after it is done installing if you need to. I assume it skips this step for the GM only to make things simple. I dunno. We'll find out hopefully next month.

Ah that isn't as big as I imagined, 5 gb will take ages over my internet though lol

Take your laptop to an Apple Store or other free WiFi location.

 

[mrkgoo]

What is messages like inML? That is, does iChat exist, or is integrated like the Messages beta?

Will I have to uninstall the beta before installing ML? I know it's likely unnecessary, but I've been cautious about no I do upgrades to minimise weirdness, and I,ve mostly been ok.

 

[NekoFever]

I'm pretty sure Messages replaces iChat. And I'm sure it'll just replace the beta with the new one.

For people running the GM, do you have to have Messages running to get notifications of iMessages?

 

[Artemisia]

July 25th

!!!!!

Says who? Or is that just speculation?

 

[Neil]

July 25th

Would be nice. I get paid end of the month and am buying a new 13" pro then so hopefully they'll start shipping them with it already installed by then.

 

[Gonky]

I'm pretty sure Messages replaces iChat. And I'm sure it'll just replace the beta with the new one.

For people running the GM, do you have to have Messages running to get notifications of iMessages?

Nope, but you do need to have mail running to get notifications of new emails. There is no way to hide the 'preview' contents of the email/message like there is on iOS yet either - someone from Bournemouth council was using my Mac to send an email and an embarrassing message came up from my girlfriend displayed in all it's glory.

 

[Canis lupus]

I'm not sure if I like the iOS type of features in this. :/

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

!!!!!

Says who? Or is that just speculation?

Be searching the App Store every day from tomorrow to the end of July. As far as the 25th, there have been a couple of rumors posted saying that is the case, and that it would be inline with last year's release (being based around Apple's quarterly results release), and also, there was a story saying that Apple Store employees will have overnight training or something during this week.

The point is, nobody really knows, maybe the 25th, just keep searching the App Store.