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[Blueblur1]

Correction: The revelation of no Arcade Mode and missing features hurt SFV in the two week period between the publishing of this trailer (on 2/2/2016) and launch (on 2/16/2016).

The news of lacking single player options and news of missing features hurt SFV immensely at launch. There's no reason to think the same won't happen to Infinite. If Capcom is smart they'll set the review embargoes to expire on launch day.

(Also, the audacity of Capcom to list the 5 minute tutorial as 'Tutorial Mode' in that SFV trailer. I didn't remember that and it just caused my jaw to drop. lol)

This. Despite what he may think of the product personally, saying that he thinks Chun-Li looks ugly in this game was a stupid thing to do. It gives out a message that if the games producer doesn't have any confidence in the game, then why should the consumer?

Another problem to add to the list.

 

[JayEH]

Correction: The revelation of no Arcade Mode and missing features hurt SFV in the two week period between the publishing of this trailer (on 2/2/2016) and launch (on 2/16/2016).

The news of lacking single player options and news of missing features hurt SFV immensely at launch. There's no reason to think the same won't happen to Infinite. If Capcom is smart they'll set the review embargoes to expire on launch day.

(Also, the audacity of Capcom to list the 5 minute tutorial as 'Tutorial Mode' in that SFV trailer. I didn't remember that and it just caused my jaw to drop. lol)




Another problem to add to the list.

A game like this needs all the pre launch hype it can get, embargo until release day would seem suspect to most.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

It was actually revealed that the ugly comment from Evans was in jest, so.

 

[solomon]

Ultimate functions vs functions courtesy of r kappa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRHi9oyMXqE

 

[IntelliHeath]

Ultimate functions vs functions courtesy of r kappa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRHi9oyMXqE

Did you ever read last page?

 

[Turbanator]

I make the spiciest of maymays.

 

[enzo_gt]

The Chun-Li comment was said in a joking tone but ratified after the fact, and the fact that they don't have control over their messaging only exacerbates people's negative perceptions and speculations about the game. Nobody cared in that thread that it was ratified.

That's one of the bigger problems, lack of proper communication channels or communication period. There are things they have their hands tied on (i.e. X-Men) but then there's other things like unnecessary comments about Magneto in the GameSpot interview and saying anything other than "we'll fix it because we value the fans feedback" because there is no good alternative, that's what you fucking do to try to stop the downward trajectory of media around this game and make sure you are not just acknowledging fans but show your commitment to them. I appreciate the realness in the GameSpot and other recent interviews, but really most people don't and will just use it to further fuel takedowns of the game or it's development.

It's sad, I think they have a pretty good product on their hands that gets better the more that I learn about it, leaks or officially. But poor communication and presentation are stopping most people from getting to that point where they can make a decision about those things because they do not matter in the face of inconsistencies in the presentation of the game, and truthfully I don't blame them for that.

 

[Neonep]

Capcom and Marvel forgot this game is essentially a fan service game. All people really want to do is use their favorite Marvel characters and favorite Capcom characters and have fun. Yet all they focused on was making it more accessible, that's where they fucked up. Their priorities were in the wrong place. Capcom are too focused on sales and trying to get people in that it's tainting the product which is nothing new for them. Marvel is too focused on promoting their movies instead on their entire line of characters which is just stupid on their behalf. All in all this game will probably bomb and the only people they can blame are themselves. Can't blame the fans when you have the demand and then taint the product with clearly stupid decisions and the lack of care is as obvious as the day is long.

 

[Neonep]

The Chun-Li comment was said in a joking tone but ratified after the fact, and the fact that they don't have control over their messaging only exacerbates people's negative perceptions and speculations about the game. Nobody cared in that thread that it was ratified.

That's one of the bigger problems, lack of proper communication channels or communication period. There are things they have their hands tied on (i.e. X-Men) but then there's other things like unnecessary comments about Magneto in the GameSpot interview and saying anything other than "we'll fix it because we value the fans feedback" because there is no good alternative, that's what you fucking do to try to stop the downward trajectory of media around this game and make sure you are not just acknowledging fans but show your commitment to them. I appreciate the realness in the GameSpot and other recent interviews, but really most people don't and will just use it to further fuel takedowns of the game or it's development.

It's sad, I think they have a pretty good product on their hands that gets better the more that I learn about it, leaks or officially. But poor communication and presentation are stopping most people from getting to that point where they can make a decision about those things because they do not matter in the face of inconsistencies in the presentation of the game, and truthfully I don't blame them for that.

The fact that someone like me who basically grew up on Marvel comics and cartoons along with Capcom games has to decide if they want to buy this game because of all this shit. I remember when this was announced, in my head I instantly said yeah no question I getting that day 1. I also don't feel comfortable with the fact that I have to buy full price game and then still pay more just a month or so later to play as a character that for all intent and purposes should have been in the base product.

 

[Turbanator]

The new screenshots in the Gamespot article seem to be using a newer build.

Compare

to

.

At the very least, the hair seems to be of a much higher texture quality.

 

[IntelliHeath]

On Function vs. Function video,

I actually appreciate the fact that Capcom botched on their attempt to handwaving the X-Men ban with a terrible excuse (I'm totally aware that Combofiend probably don't believe in his own comment but just leave it as it is). And I do get where some people came from since some people prefer to use the characters because of their functions in the battles, rather than being attached to characters and their personalities. However, they need to understand the fact people actually pick the characters because they have passions for certain characters and their personalities. I meant I'm sure many fans are going to pick up the games because so they could pick the characters that came from their favorite movies, comics, etc and they really want to see the characters playing as what they actually did in the movie.

The video just prove the point that movesets or/and archetype can't co-exists without characters' models and personalities. Also there are many small details that also help to make the game feel like alive. If we decided to make the blank characters with interesting movesets, it wouldn't pop very well or looks good because it lacks characteristic and personalities. I could say same thing for creating the movesets for certain characters. I meant can you just decide to give Captain America a laser gun and hammer, and expect it to works? Nope, it wouldn't because it don't scream Captain America to the fans.

In order to make characters pop out in fighting games, fighters need their models oozing of personality and characters and interesting moveset or/and archetype that actually make sense for those certain characters.

Developing characters for fighting games is pretty hard since you have to make sure their attacks would carry weights, the moves that actually make sense for characters, and make sure their animations would flow very well with full of life and personalities. Or otherwise, they would feel flat and boring. That's why I really appreciate numbers of fighting games out there that actually breathe the life into characters in the games.

 

[JeTmAn81]

The new screenshots in the Gamespot article seem to be using a newer build.

Compare
to .

At the very least, the hair seems to be of a much higher texture quality.

First screenshot looks like it came from a game, second has no HUD and smacks of bullshot.

 

[Nirolak]

So it's not actually unheard of to update models post launch.

Now, Capcom strikes me as a company who probably wouldn't care and wouldn't bother investing in doing so, but it happens.

To give an example, here are a few of the reworks Heroes of the Storm (Blizzard's RTS-Camera MOBA) did to improve its earliest heroes back in 2014-2015.

For example, Nova (the preview and final result):

A few others, ranging from subtle to very substantial:

They still do art updates these days, but most are shipped out at a very high standard to start with. Maps are something they also something they look at revisiting visually, which would be akin to fixing up any stages that look bad.

But yeah, there's not really a reason Capcom couldn't hit their normal launch date and then go and improve the art later.

That said, it's worth noting that Netherrealm did make some very substantial art updates between their February beta and their May launch. Mind, I don't know if Capcom has the same capability in terms of staff skills and resources.

 

[cordy]

Idk if they'll ever turn the negativity of this game around.

 

[enzo_gt]

So it's not actually unheard of to update models post launch.

Now, Capcom strikes me as a company who probably wouldn't care and wouldn't bother investing in doing so, but it happens.

To give an example, here are a few of the reworks Heroes of the Storm (Blizzard's RTS-Camera MOBA) did to improve its earliest heroes back in 2014-2015.

For example, Nova (the preview and final result):

A few others, ranging from subtle to very substantial:

They still do art updates these days, but most are shipped out at a very high standard to start with. Maps are something they also something they look at revisiting visually, which would be akin to fixing up any stages that look bad.

But yeah, there's not really a reason Capcom couldn't hit their normal launch date and then go and improve the art later.

That said, it's worth noting that Netherrealm did make some very substantial art updates between their February beta and their May launch. Mind, I don't know if Capcom has the same capability in terms of staff skills and resources.

I think people look to SFV Ken and think it's unlikely, which got a ton of flak and meming too. Outside of like pewdiepie and stuff, had a fairly similar reaction within and outside of the FGC.

I think it's going to happen for sure, just a matter of when. And if it's not in for launch, I think people are just going to turn off all interest in this game. If they haven't already.

 

[Karsticles]

So it's not actually unheard of to update models post launch.

Now, Capcom strikes me as a company who probably wouldn't care and wouldn't bother investing in doing so, but it happens.

To give an example, here are a few of the reworks Heroes of the Storm (Blizzard's RTS-Camera MOBA) did to improve its earliest heroes back in 2014-2015.

For example, Nova (the preview and final result):



A few others, ranging from subtle to very substantial:



They still do art updates these days, but most are shipped out at a very high standard to start with. Maps are something they also something they look at revisiting visually, which would be akin to fixing up any stages that look bad.

But yeah, there's not really a reason Capcom couldn't hit their normal launch date and then go and improve the art later.

That said, it's worth noting that Netherrealm did make some very substantial art updates between their February beta and their May launch. Mind, I don't know if Capcom has the same capability in terms of staff skills and resources.

It's like they all start as gorillas and evolve to become human.

 

[Neonep]

When this game launches, the lack of diversity in the roster is going to come up. Oh boy. Let's just assume the 28 is correct. Only 4 female characters out of 28 and the only black character is locked behind a paywall.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

It's really discouraging seeing my fav fighting game series reduced to a laughing matter.

I felt the same when SFV was getting slammed everywhere, but this just seems worse.

What happened? Why did it even get to this level?

 

[Dahbomb]

It's really discouraging seeing my fav fighting game series reduced to a laughing matter.

I felt the same when SFV was getting slammed everywhere, but this just seems worse.

What happened? Why did it even get to this level?

It got to this level because of corporate greed, on both sides.

Marvel/Capcom want a game that is first and foremost a games as a service. That means releasing the most barebones product day 1 and gouge the fanboys with DLC. They are even releasing this game as service game for full money.

Story mode is to target the casuals. It's really just a bullet point at the back of the cover and PR lists because the actual quality of the story is suspect.

Game is being rushed out to retain a lower budget and minimize the amount that they need to put marketing on the game. They are going to put this out then focus on marketing MHW.

X Men not being part of main roster is greed and pettyness on the side of Marvel. They will advertise their MCU babies first and then scalp the fanbase for X Men DLC.

Even the art style can be tracked to greed as Marvel wants that mobile money crossover. They probably think a more realistic artstyle will appeal to casuals more than a cartoony/comic style.


The only thing about the game that doesn't feel like it's being fueled by corporate greed is the actual game play because that's something that people who actually are fans and veterans of the series have some control over (ie. Combofiend).

 

[Rhaknar]

It's really discouraging seeing my fav fighting game series reduced to a laughing matter.

I felt the same when SFV was getting slammed everywhere, but this just seems worse.

What happened? Why did it even get to this level?

because they fucked up and because we live in the meme age.

 

[vg260]

The new screenshots in the Gamespot article seem to be using a newer build.

Compare
to .

At the very least, the hair seems to be of a much higher texture quality.

It's, "they fixed Ken's face!" all over again.

 

[Sou Da]

It's really discouraging seeing my fav fighting game series reduced to a laughing matter.

I felt the same when SFV was getting slammed everywhere, but this just seems worse.

What happened? Why did it even get to this level?

When people began chasing their next schadenfreude high. Around SWTOR Imo.

 

[Neonep]

The problem now is that they waited to long to reveal stuff with the release date being so soon. After the initial reveal we went what 4 months of silence on this game and the one random day in April we get info and then they go silent for another month until E3. With the way they were sharing info on the game one would think it isn't releasing in September.

 

[Dahbomb]

The problem now is that they waited to long to reveal stuff with the release date being so soon. After the initial reveal we went what 4 months of silence on this game and the one random day in April we get info and then they go silent for another month until E3. With the way they were sharing info on the game one would think it isn't releasing in September.

Like I said everything about this game can be traced to corporate greed.

We didn't hear about this game much because Capcom/Marvel are conserving marketing budget for this game.

 

[Neonep]

People tried to say this game wasn't on a tight budget and wasn't being rushed. Well those people were super wrong.

 

[JayEH]

Everything capcom produces is on a tight budget now of days. They're barely AAA if they are anymore.

 

[Neonep]

Also why is this game sooo sideways why everything about Spider-Man on PS4 is right?

 

[Neoxon]

So it's not actually unheard of to update models post launch.

Now, Capcom strikes me as a company who probably wouldn't care and wouldn't bother investing in doing so, but it happens.

To give an example, here are a few of the reworks Heroes of the Storm (Blizzard's RTS-Camera MOBA) did to improve its earliest heroes back in 2014-2015.

For example, Nova (the preview and final result):



A few others, ranging from subtle to very substantial:



They still do art updates these days, but most are shipped out at a very high standard to start with. Maps are something they also something they look at revisiting visually, which would be akin to fixing up any stages that look bad.

But yeah, there's not really a reason Capcom couldn't hit their normal launch date and then go and improve the art later.

That said, it's worth noting that Netherrealm did make some very substantial art updates between their February beta and their May launch. Mind, I don't know if Capcom has the same capability in terms of staff skills and resources.

I believe that update in Injustice 2's visuals between beta & launch came at the cost of AA. As for Capcom, they did remove shadow dithering from SFV (PS4) about a year after its launch.

 

[JayEH]

Also why is this game sooo sideways why everything about Spider-Man on PS4 is right?

two different publishers/developers obviously.

 

[MrCarter]

Everything capcom produces is on a tight budget now of days. They're barely AAA if they are anymore.

Resident Evil 7 and Monster Hunter World says otherwise. They seem to be struggling with their fighting game division that's all and it's about time someone steers that ship before it's too late.

 

[Neonep]

Everything capcom produces is on a tight budget now of days. They're barely AAA if they are anymore.

This just puts more pressure on their next games which isn't good because the next game which is MHW has to succeed. If that game fails Capcom will be in trouble. Also whatever the fuck Itsuno is doing will be looked at with a microscope because that game can't fuck up either.

 

[Neonep]

two different publishers/developers obviously.

I was referring more to the Marvel side.

 

[Dahbomb]

Whatever Itsuno is making was going to be put under a microscope anyway especially after DmC.

If it's not a DMC game? It better be damn fucking good if Capcom sacrificed DMC5 for it.

If it is DMC5? People like me are going to analyze every pixel, frame, info, mechanic under extreme scrutiny. The fans are expecting big things, a budget dump will not suffice.

 

[IntelliHeath]

It's really discouraging seeing my fav fighting game series reduced to a laughing matter.

I felt the same when SFV was getting slammed everywhere, but this just seems worse.

What happened? Why did it even get to this level?

I wish I know. I think it's mixed of many things at once. I wonder what the heck going on with their staffs at Capcom. What happens to Quality Control position? Did they think they could save money by offing the position?

I think if they have a strong-willed worker in Quality Control then the incidents wouldn't have happens. Internet have become more harsh with the companies making mistakes. People made fun of Injustice 2 with their facial animations and models so they worked on it and make it even much better.

What a shame. They nailed the mechanic and battle system but dropped their ball on everything else in many people's eyes.

 

[JayEH]

Resident Evil 7 and Monster Hunter World says otherwise. They seem to be struggling with their fighting game division that's all and it's about time someone steers that ship before it's too late.

RE and MH are their two biggest franchises so they do still try with those but even then RE7 was a big step down from 6 in terms of budget and lacked the extra modes and features that have always been present in the franchise. RE7 was a more traditional survival horror game so in some ways less is more but it still missed sales expectations even if only by a little. The game may have made money but it's still a regression for the series in terms of sales.

The fact is capcom doesn't dump a lot of money in games anymore because they can't compete with the competition at that scale.

I was referring more to the Marvel side.

They want this to be like the mobile fighting game but on consoles. Thus the emphasis on DLC. They picked the wrong partner for this though since Capcom has horrible experience with GaaS.

 

[Neonep]

I wish I know. I think it's mixed of many things at once. I wonder what the heck going on with their staffs at Capcom. What happens to Quality Control position? Did they think they could save money by offing the position?

I think if they have a strong-willed worker in Quality Control then the incidents wouldn't have happens. Internet have become more harsh with the companies making mistakes. People made fun of Injustice 2 with their facial animations and models so they worked on it and make it even much better.

What a shame. They nailed the mechanic and battle system but dropped their ball on everything else in many people's eyes.

SFV all over again. SFV is a really fun game to play but everything else around it sucked.

 

[Steaks]

That only looks like a lighting/shadows change. To be fair, lighting and shadows can have an enormous impact on the way the game look. The difference between the demo and the E3 build is significant, and makes the game go from looking cheap and gaudy to like, a bland AA budget game with some bad models here and there. If they can fix some of the faces (which are really the biggest issue) + use the E3 build stage lighting on the story mode, it will probably look good, but not exceptional.

 

[IntelliHeath]

SFV all over again. SFV is a really fun game to play but everything else around it sucked.

Have they update on SFV's sales yet? I know it was on sales on frequently basis so I'm curious to see if people actually bought the game when it's on sales.

 

[ColonialHawk]

Also why is this game sooo sideways why everything about Spider-Man on PS4 is right?

Insomniac has better management, probably better funding (from their past games), and the fact that development isnt split between studios in America and Japan making communication difficult.

Insomniac vs Capcom is a 9-1 matchup.

 

[Tetsuo9999]

I wouldn't have preordered this if I wasn't able to get it for "free" with Amazon trade-in credit. It seems really odd to talk about how the game will have support/service for years to come, yet still charge a full $65 for it. They seem to want the full retail profits while still charging for extra content. While the other issues surrounding the game would have always given it bad press, making the game sell at a lower base price would make things sting a little less. They're already selling SF5 for $20 in Redbox and on sale digitally, and that seems like a more fair price for the low content you get on the disc. They're already on thin ice with some fans due to the issues surrounding the game's marketing/decisions/launch, but dropping the price to $20 as quickly as they have with SF5 is only going to make things worse. The price CDKeys is selling this for seems like a more fair price for what's included in the base package along with how much time it'll take for the game to have a comparable roster to the past three games with DLC.

 

[Steaks]

Have they update on SFV's sales yet? I know it was on sales on frequently basis so I'm curious to see if people actually bought the game when it's on sales.

Last I checked it hit 1.6M. No updates since, but there was a several month period where it only went from 1.4M to 1.6M.

To put it in perspective, SF4 sold like 4M.

Insomniac has better management, probably better funding (from their past games), and the fact that development isnt split between studios in America and Japan making communication difficult.

Insomniac vs Capcom is a 9-1 matchup.

Management alone isn't a factor. Like, if their teams have more experience building certain kinds of systems (combat, lighting, etc) and better problem solving skills overall, they can do more with less talent and make fewer mistakes along the way. From what I've heard, Capcom put their new hires on their fighting games or something; that may explain the vast discrepancy in quality between character models and music.

 

[JayEH]

Have they update on SFV's sales yet? I know it was on sales on frequently basis so I'm curious to see if people actually bought the game when it's on sales.

sold 1.4 million in its first month or so then took 9 months for it to reach 1.5, then another few months to reach 1.6.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Resident Evil 7 and Monster Hunter World says otherwise. They seem to be struggling with their fighting game division that's all and it's about time someone steers that ship before it's too late.

They're AA at best if you look at both of those games being smaller in scope. They're definitely not playing with the big boys. Half of RE7s budget was for the engine itself.

The last AAA game they made was RE6 in terms of budget.

That only looks like a lighting/shadows change. To be fair, lighting and shadows can have an enormous impact on the way the game look. The difference between the demo and the E3 build is significant, and makes the game go from looking cheap and gaudy to like, a bland AA budget game with some bad models here and there. If they can fix some of the faces (which are really the biggest issue) + use the E3 build stage lighting on the story mode, it will probably look good, but not exceptional.

Actually they updated a lot of face models. There are comparisons of the female cast before and after which needed the most revision.

 

[Neonep]

Have they update on SFV's sales yet? I know it was on sales on frequently basis so I'm curious to see if people actually bought the game when it's on sales.

Latest number which is quite recent has it at 1.6 mil.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

I wish I know. I think it's mixed of many things at once. I wonder what the heck going on with their staffs at Capcom. What happens to Quality Control position? Did they think they could save money by offing the position?

I think if they have a strong-willed worker in Quality Control then the incidents wouldn't have happens. Internet have become more harsh with the companies making mistakes. People made fun of Injustice 2 with their facial animations and models so they worked on it and make it even much better.

What a shame. They nailed the mechanic and battle system but dropped their ball on everything else in many people's eyes.

I think back to the PSX announcement and how happy I was to see a game that I wasn't expecting to be made. The opening with X, Ryu, Iron Man, and Captain Marvel was glorious to see because it confirmed that the Vs series was continuing. Most people like to get on Max for his reaction vids, but it was real hype in his reaction to this game.

Now fast forward all the way to now and the game has lost nearly all of its momentum. Cot damn it, Capcom. I remember when you were an amazing company that wanted to make the best product for your fans. Marvel ain't off the hook, either, because they made this game into an MCU (characters and artstyle) promotion tool with those choices.

 

[Steaks]

Actually they updated a lot of face models. There are comparisons of the female cast before and after which needed the most revision.

Do you have any comparisons between the faces, out of curiosity? Would be cool to see those updates.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Do you have any comparisons between the faces, out of curiosity? Would be cool to see those updates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMM4pU-Fufg

 

[Neonep]

MVC:I is basically a death by a thousand cuts situation. From the roster situation and choices to the graphics and art style to the marketing. All of those having problems added up. It's just crazy how fast all of this happened. The game was only just revealed in December and pretty much everyone was still excited up until the roster leak just prior to E3. It's been downhill ever since.

 

[MrCarter]

RE7 was a big step down from 6 in terms of budget and lacked the extra modes and features that have always been present in the franchise. RE7 was a more traditional survival horror game so in some ways less is more but it still missed sales expectations even if only by a little. The game may have made money but it's still a regression for the series in terms of sales.

The fact is capcom doesn't dump a lot of money in games anymore because they can't compete with the competition at that scale.

Yes, RE7's world wasn't as huge as RE5/6 but it wasn't trying to be. It reimagined the landscape in horror games by bringing it back to the emotion and atmosphere rather than action. It did that very well too considering their metacritic score of 86. They may not have met their own sales expectations but in terms of perception it did extremely well and Monster Hunter World seems like it will do well too.

Their fighting games though? It's a damn mystery.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Last I checked it hit 1.6M. No updates since, but there was a several month period where it only went from 1.4M to 1.6M.

To put it in perspective, SF4 sold like 4M.

sold 1.4 million in its first month or so then took 9 months for it to reach 1.5, then another few months to reach 1.6.

Latest number which is quite recent has it at 1.6 mil.

Thanks. 1.6M is pretty extremely low for Street Fighter franchise in general. It's definitely not good.

Management alone isn't a factor. Like, if their teams have more experience building certain kinds of systems (combat, lighting, etc) and better problem solving skills overall, they can do more with less talent and make fewer mistakes along the way. From what I've heard, Capcom put their new hires on their fighting games or something; that may explain the vast discrepancy in quality between character models and music.

That would explains everything about the product. It's really risky move for them to include new hires for high profile game like Marvel Vs. Capcom. I would understand if it's something like Devil May Cry, Resident Evil, and/or Street Fighter.

But Marvel Vs. Capcom, especially the partnership with Marvel, so it's really risky move right now. I really hope the sales would be decent enough to encourage the workers to work on the updates for next two-three years. Making a service game is really risky since some companies doesn't get it.