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MS confirms indie program for XB1, was a big GamesCom surprise, angry at GI for leak

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
the ability to self publish games should not be a secret that you want to surprise people with 3 months before launch.

The confusing messaging comes from indies being in all 3 big dev categories. Large games, XBLA and XBIG.

Self publishing to Xbox one and self publishing to Xbox marketplace are two totally different things. You can't self publish a disc. You can't self publish a larger title (with the best visibility) as a digital download title.... You can however self publish through the mass marketplace.

So no is still the right answer and yes is the still the right answer. It's because of the different variants of delivery that makes this confusing depending on which person you ask. Someone managing the content portfolio would say no. Someone working on the XBIG initiative would say yes.
 
So self publishing and XB1 as a dev tool from the first year?

Good news, but those months of advantage for PS4 could be important to make the console the "indie" console, I know there won't be such thing, but if a good indie enviroment is nurtured on PS4 during those months it could become a huge advantage in terms of support over XB1.

Althought making XB1 a dev tool is quite great and could allow for more projects (but also more shit like in XBLIG). We'll see how this payoff, but all this 180º turns from MS are delicious.
 
Please, for the sake of clarity and to avoid any confusion going forward, explain to us the difference and meaning. There's gonna be a lot of double talk going forward from people who have a different agenda than getting the facts straight.

Also, because while I know what you mean, and have an idea of the two meanings, I'm honestly not sure which is which.

Access to full hardware = you have access to the full hardware.

You could read things from a disk drive, you could render using the GPU, you could see things through the kinect, you could compute using cpu power and you could write to ram and access the hard drive or see if an internet connection is present via networking, as well as take inputs from a controller.

You just can't necessarily do anything useful with that access.

Knowing there is an internet connection present is moot if you cannot use any networking protocols or intiiate any downloads of additional content (or whatever).
Maybe you are limited to only drawing raster or vector graphics in the GPU. Or maybe you can only use software rendering instead of HW T&L.

Maybe you can only use the D-Pad of a controller. Maybe you're only allowed to access one of the CPU cores and everything has to be coded as a virtualised or finite state machine. Maybe you're not allowed access to more than 512Mb RAM at any time, so have to aggressively garbage collect continously.

There's all sorts of restrictions possible while still having access to full hardware.

Full hardware access is access to all features of the hardware.

EDIT:
I make no claims to insider knowledge or any claims that any of the above is in fact the case.
I'm just suggesting it is extremely sensible to parse what statements are being released very carefully.
 
I love that all sorts of people complain about MS and all the stuff they've done so far on a console that's not even out yet. And then they change up their stuff and do stuff that people want, and yet they still get shit on.

It's such a no win situation for MS with message board gamers. I have no idea why. Sony came out with a crap price for their PS3, crap stuff all around with some of the stuff they did, yet were given every single chance to make up for it.

And now here we are at the end of this current gen and Sony has finally caught up to MS globally and everything is all good in the hood... . yet for some reason MS doesn't get the... Let's wait for the Tsunami talk.

Oh well. I have a feeling X1 is going to be a good gaming console that only does everything. I can't wait for both consoles.

Funny thing too.. because a Sony dev said at E3 that MS won the games... but Sony won the gamers.

I want to play games... not gamers.
 

SPDIF

Member
Do people not remember these comments?

Don Mattrick said:
We're going to have an independent creator program," Don Mattrick, Microsoft's head of interactive entertainment (read: he's in charge of the Xbox), told me last week. "We're going to sponsor it. We're going to give people tools. We're going to give more information.

"That is something we think—I think—is important," he said of an indie program. "That's how I started in the industry. There's no way we're going to build a box that doesn't support that."

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-vows-to-support-indie-developers-on-xbox-one-510129167


Just wait until they charge you $150 to unlock the devkit side. Just you wait.

Still cheaper than a dev kit would normally cost.
 

Barzul

Member
So self publishing and XB1 as a dev tool from the first year?

Good news, but those months of advantage for PS4 could be important to make the console the "indie" console, I know there won't be such thing, but if a good indie enviroment is nurtured on PS4 during those months it could become a huge advantage in terms of support over XB1.

Althought making XB1 a dev tool is quite great and could allow for more projects (but also more shit like in XBLIG). We'll see how this payoff, but all this 180º turns from MS are delicious.
You're making it sound like indie games can't be released on the Xbox One withing that period. Indie developers should still be able to get dev kits if they want to.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
It's such a no win situation for MS with message board gamers. I have no idea why. Sony came out with a crap price for their PS3, crap stuff all around with some of the stuff they did, yet were given every single chance to make up for it.
Such bullshit. It took Sony years to crawl out of the hole they dug on the PS3 with message board crowd.

MS has made worse mistakes than price going into the XB1.
 
I love that all sorts of people complain about MS and all the stuff they've done so far on a console that's not even out yet. And then they change up their stuff and do stuff that people want, and yet they still get shit on.

It's such a no win situation for MS with message board gamers. I have no idea why. Sony came out with a crap price for their PS3, crap stuff all around with some of the stuff they did, yet were given every single chance to make up for it.

And now here we are at the end of this current gen and Sony has finally caught up to MS globally and everything is all good in the hood... . yet for some reason MS doesn't get the... Let's wait for the Tsunami talk.

Oh well. I have a feeling X1 is going to be a good gaming console that only does everything. I can't wait for both consoles.

Funny thing too.. because a Sony dev said at E3 that MS won the games... but Sony won the gamers.

I want to play games... not gamers.

You obviously weren't on the internet back then.

I promise you, these companies pay their dues in ridicule for their stupid decisions. Sony most certainly did, and they deserved it.
 

Chobel

Member
You're making it sound like indie games can't be released on the Xbox One withing that period. Indie developers should still be able to get dev kits if they want to.

They can't get dev kit without publisher (at least for now)
 

Arkam

Member
Good news indeed!
Though Im really hoping they have either segregated shops or SOME sort of certification.
Like to be LISTED (with image) you need to be certified, BUT you can publish your game without and it can be found via search. Or maybe simply let the cream rise to the top no matter what publishers it may burn along the way :p


Regardless Really good news for gamers and developers alike.

Laughing so hard seeing people try and turn this into a bad thing... really?
 
I love that all sorts of people complain about MS and all the stuff they've done so far on a console that's not even out yet. And then they change up their stuff and do stuff that people want, and yet they still get shit on.

It's such a no win situation for MS with message board gamers. I have no idea why. Sony came out with a crap price for their PS3, crap stuff all around with some of the stuff they did, yet were given every single chance to make up for it.

And now here we are at the end of this current gen and Sony has finally caught up to MS globally and everything is all good in the hood... . yet for some reason MS doesn't get the... Let's wait for the Tsunami talk.

Oh well. I have a feeling X1 is going to be a good gaming console that only does everything. I can't wait for both consoles.

Funny thing too.. because a Sony dev said at E3 that MS won the games... but Sony won the gamers.

I want to play games... not gamers.
That was my favorite part.
 

5amshift

Banned
I just got home after a long day and not ready to read all about this right now. Another thing Microsoft does gets fucked up and confusing.
 
Just wait until they charge you $150 to unlock the devkit side. Just you wait.
Annually, and on top of your live subscription potentially.

It's cute that they think they have time to spare with such announcements. The quicker this news gets out the better. If anything their anger just makes matters worse. Time is not a luxury they can afford.
 
Good news indeed!
Though Im really hoping they have either segregated shops or SOME sort of certification.
Like to be LISTED (with image) you need to be certified, BUT you can publish your game without and it can be found via search. Or maybe simply let the cream rise to the top no matter what publishers it may burn along the way :p


Regardless Really good news for gamers and developers alike.

Laughing so hard seeing people try and turn this into a bad thing... really?

No one is trying to spin this into a bad thing. That'd be absolutely backwards.

People are skeptical of Microsoft PR, people are skeptical of everything that's being said. Which is absolutely justifiable.
 
Such bullshit. It took Sony years to crawl out of the hole they dug on the PS3 with message board crowd.

MS has made worse mistakes than price going into the XB1.

Agreed, I remember those days, especially when Phil Harrisson showed off alpha footage of Motorstorm for the first time (think was GDC) and it was a directory of abuse. Accused of lying about the Cell, it will bomb and so forth.

I think all three are fair game, look at Wii U and Vita threads
 
You're making it sound like indie games can't be released on the Xbox One withing that period. Indie developers should still be able to get dev kits if they want to.

They can be released, but we know that indies have been turning down XB1 until self-publishing is in,dev kits is not gonna change that.
 
It's such a no win situation for MS with message board gamers. I have no idea why. Sony came out with a crap price for their PS3, crap stuff all around with some of the stuff they did, yet were given every single chance to make up for it.

I guess you weren't on the internet from 2006-2009
 
I love that all sorts of people complain about MS and all the stuff they've done so far on a console that's not even out yet. And then they change up their stuff and do stuff that people want, and yet they still get shit on.

It's such a no win situation for MS with message board gamers. I have no idea why. Sony came out with a crap price for their PS3, crap stuff all around with some of the stuff they did, yet were given every single chance to make up for it.

And now here we are at the end of this current gen and Sony has finally caught up to MS globally and everything is all good in the hood... . yet for some reason MS doesn't get the... Let's wait for the Tsunami talk.

Oh well. I have a feeling X1 is going to be a good gaming console that only does everything. I can't wait for both consoles.

Funny thing too.. because a Sony dev said at E3 that MS won the games... but Sony won the gamers.

I want to play games... not gamers.

You might not have been on GAF back then
in fact you weren't!
but Sony got absolutely eviscerated with their god awful choices for the PS3.
 
Good news indeed!
Though Im really hoping they have either segregated shops or SOME sort of certification.
Like to be LISTED (with image) you need to be certified, BUT you can publish your game without and it can be found via search. Or maybe simply let the cream rise to the top no matter what publishers it may burn along the way :p


Regardless Really good news for gamers and developers alike.

Laughing so hard seeing people try and turn this into a bad thing... really?

I haven't seen many trying to turn it into a bad thing. There are basically two camps (outside of those who are simply ecstatic about this news):

1) Those who are skeptical about what's been announced, basically waiting for the other shoe to drop. One can hardly blame them since Microsoft's PR lately has been a non-stop comedy of errors.

Or

2) Those who don't understand why this is being paraded around by some as Microsoft's huge comeback victory stroke to defeat the evil Sony, when, in reality, it's just kinda sorta catching up to where Sony's been for a couple years. Even the fact that the console might be a dev kit isn't all that huge since Sony's been giving dev kits to indies for free (which is $500 less than the cost of an Xbone console/dev kit).
 
They really had no idea what they were doing coming into this gen did they?

Also every console as a dev kit sounds like a promise that will evaporate
 
You obviously weren't on the internet back then.

I promise you, these companies pay their dues in ridicule for their stupid decisions. Sony most certainly did, and they deserved it.

Lets Play Spot The Meme!
"Giant Enemy Crab"
"Hit the weak spot for massive damage"
"Riiiiiiiidge Raaaaaaaaaacer"
"Second job"
"599 US DOLLARS"
"Rumble is a last gen feature"
"Wait for ......"
"Secret Sony game"
"Year of the Playstation"
"Welcome to the third place"
kazgeohotrambo.gif

yeah, nobody said shit about Sony, ever.
 

USC-fan

Banned
This isnt new?


why xbox live indie games?

Xbox LIVE Indie Games has the free tools, the information, and the community you need to create and publish amazing apps and games to reach every Windows Phone user and the 25 million Xbox LIVE members worldwide over Xbox LIVE Indie Games.

what do i get?

With an annual subscription of $99 USD, you’ll get:

Xbox 360

Submit up to 10 games on Xbox LIVE Indie Games
Develop and debug on your retail Xbox 360 console with XNA Game Studio Connect
Customize your games for individual regions and languages
Peer review new Indie Games before they're released

http://xbox.create.msdn.com/en-US/home/membership

This was their "big announcement?"
 

ferr

Member
No, 360 still has dev kits if you are creating an app or game, with the exception of XBLIG, in which case you are correct.

Their likely won't be a framework. Just straight C++/DirectX, which is great. That way developers could use engines like Unity (just updated to add Windows 8Windows Phone 8 support btw).

Well, yeah, I remember something along the lines of MS saying approved indie devs will get free "unity pro for xbox one" licenses.. so that would add up. That's good because unity is pretty damn good, and maybe with MS getting involved the unity asset store will explode with new content (decent now, but it could be the home depot of game making).
 
Self published games would be limited to 3Gb RAM. Implying that it would be stuck in the section of hardware reserved for WinRT, and indeed they would be stuck in the WinRT apps section, buried under Netflix.

Thanks although I find it by myself, but I apreciate it.

Also, I totally believe CBOAT on this one.
 
And just like that... Microsoft has given me the first thing to be sincerely interested in. Did it really have to be this hard Microsoft?
 
Being given a console devkit actually sounds pretty fucking awesome, assuming it all works out.

If that Kinect-less XB1 happens next year I might seriously have to question which console I pick up. I do agree Microsoft's management though of this whole thing seems like a complete and utter clusterfuck.
 
Registered in: 2013. That explains it.

Ya.. on this site in 2013. I've only been apart of console wars message boards since 2005... buy ya... then why is MS being pooped on so hard? They get no chance to make amends for shit decisions? It might take time, but the way most post makes it seem they are dead on arrival and can never do good for gamers.

Even when they change stuff up you still hear the peanut gallery complain that they probably didn't mean this, and that they only changed this up because of whatever.

Point is they are changing their stuff BECAUSE OF THE CUSTOMER! Gamers are complaining so they are listening and changing stuff. Yet they are not given any type of chance people would be lead to believe by reading forum post.
 
I guess you weren't on the internet from 2006-2009

Of course I was. And all I kept hearing was that MS is a FPS machine... and it doesn't sell in Japan, and that a Sony tsunami was coming each and every Year.

I was shown list of Sony games.. I was shown KZ2 up the yin yang. I was told how the 360 RRoD'd all over...

I've been around. Just because I'm new on GAF, doesn't mean I haven't been around the block when it comes to gaming.
 
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