Elessartelrunya
Member
So have any major news sites picked this up.I haven't been able to check a computer all day.
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My Kickstarter Nightmare: Soul Saga Edition
- Thread starter Elessartelrunya
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None as far as I can see.
As it's not a time sensitive issue, they have time to try and contact the dev and get an interview/ comment, etc.
Elessartelrunya
Member
No rush, just curious.stuck on my phone for now. Got another email reply from Mike. Will post when I get home.
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
Sad to see this campaign turn like this, so far none of my backed kickstarters have been a bust, though one has been on silence for awhile.
zeopower6
Member
I've been around. If you haven't seen my posts, then you're not looking. To be honest, singling me out is pretty immature. Also this is kind of getting out of hand. I know where the anger is coming from but jesus, this is getting to be a bit much.
Also I don't really want to get attacked for not feeling the same way you guys do.
Most of the activity has been happening at the forum since the last update which was a little less than two weeks ago.
http://www.disastercake.com/blog/category/blog/
element
Member
More of a comment of frequency. You had an answer for any concern while the campaign was going on, and defending the game and mike non-stop, pretty much being his PR here.
Now you are very quiet.
Push Square mentioned to me about trying to get an interview with him today
zeopower6
Member
Well, I was at all of the live chats and was in the comment thread regularly, so I figured I should at least relay a lot of the information here.
I'm not going to get into this too much further because I haven't exactly been around for a lot of the recent developments of the game and I've been busy during all of the livestreams. (but mostly because I'm not sure if I want to engage with you) I brought it up at the Soul Saga forums because I was worried and the thread that I mentioned it in is kind of gone now... :/
zeopower6
Member
I don't believe he knew about this thread until I mentioned it two nights ago. All I said was that the dev diary locking was causing 'issues' and linked here. That's almost exactly what I said.
I just checked and there seem to be new rules in place at the forum starting today.
element
Member
yeah. he is not allowing public access to the forums because of 'haters' and 'trolls'.
I thought you were talking about some of the things called out in this thread, such as misrepresenting himself among other things.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
Statements like this could conceivably lead to criminal charges, depending on the jurisdiction of course. Lie about qualifications to get backers? Would be interesting to see what would happen.
element
Member
Backers could probably sue him if they wanted on such a statement.
Oh, I agree completely in this instance, I was just addressing the expanded suggestion that it's something that Kickstarters should itemise in general.
zeopower6
Member
I don't really think he's lying, but he wasn't very specific about it.
https://www.microsoft.com/games/mgsgamecatalog/fableIIIpccredits.aspx
Being a tester and actually working on a game are two different things
Jupiter_Shrooms
Member
Wow. I think the hate's getting out of control.
I'm willing to let him slide on having to go through multiple artists, because I've had similar troubles. I'm doing an indie game too (self-funded), and I'm actually on my 4th artist. A good artist really is hard to find. I've had an artist take money up front, then proceed to disappear for about month with no contact. Another artist literally just used the paint bucket tool on reference sprites that I gave him and give them right back to me and had the gall to tell me it's a new character. All of them had great looking portfolios to start, but you can't tell what their work ethic is like until you work with them. Hiring an artist looks deceptively easy, until you actually start doing it. (or maybe I've just been unlucky)
As for the trip to japan. I think it's unfair to ding him for that as a misappropriation of funds. Because the question then becomes, "what is he allowed to use the money for?" Can he buy food with the KS money? Can he pay bills with it? Does any of the KS money get to become his personal salary? It seems like he should receive a salary because he is working. And if he does earn a salary, is he allowed to go on a vacation?
Yeah, he's bumbling on the PR and responding badly to criticism. But technically he hasn't failed yet. Some people are acting like it's a foregone conclusion that it's a scam and a failure.
I'm willing to let him slide on having to go through multiple artists, because I've had similar troubles. I'm doing an indie game too (self-funded), and I'm actually on my 4th artist. A good artist really is hard to find. I've had an artist take money up front, then proceed to disappear for about month with no contact. Another artist literally just used the paint bucket tool on reference sprites that I gave him and give them right back to me and had the gall to tell me it's a new character. All of them had great looking portfolios to start, but you can't tell what their work ethic is like until you work with them. Hiring an artist looks deceptively easy, until you actually start doing it. (or maybe I've just been unlucky)
As for the trip to japan. I think it's unfair to ding him for that as a misappropriation of funds. Because the question then becomes, "what is he allowed to use the money for?" Can he buy food with the KS money? Can he pay bills with it? Does any of the KS money get to become his personal salary? It seems like he should receive a salary because he is working. And if he does earn a salary, is he allowed to go on a vacation?
Yeah, he's bumbling on the PR and responding badly to criticism. But technically he hasn't failed yet. Some people are acting like it's a foregone conclusion that it's a scam and a failure.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
Yeah, I was a tester on civ4 but it would take brass ones to try to use that as a primary cv point to get financial backing for a solo project.
Dice//
Banned
The amount of "inspiration" in this game is kinda bothersome for me. It's a little too close to FF in some parts (so a redesign doesn't sound too terrible, IMHO).
But it's an interesting project, and I like the amount of DRAMA we got going right now.
And o-m-g they promise to release the game for the WiiU so there's that!
But it's an interesting project, and I like the amount of DRAMA we got going right now.
And o-m-g they promise to release the game for the WiiU so there's that!
Thing is, the blood's in the water now. People love to see things fail, especially if it's a spectacular disaster.
zeopower6
Member
I will say that I don't think anyone who backed was under the impression that he had much of a hand in the games he was involved with. I think more than anything, he mentioned that because that was literally his job before the Kickstarter, not to try to mislead anyone into thinking otherwise. It would've probably been a better idea to just omit it entirely though since I don't believe it had much bearing over whether or not anyone backed.
The amount of "inspiration" in this game is kinda bothersome for me. It's a little too close to FF in some parts (so a redesign doesn't sound too terrible, IMHO).
But it's an interesting project, and I like the amount of DRAMA we got going right now.
And o-m-g they promise to release the game for the WiiU so there's that!
The main 'inspirations' seem to be Full Metal Alchemist and Suikoden, I think... especially FMA with the story.
I don't think this will fail, but I think this turn of events is probably going to slow things down for a while...
Eh? Of course it would have had a bearing on whether some people backed or not. Thinking that he was involved in the development of games like Fable whilst working at Microsoft would have shown previous experience, which in turn would have made the project much more likely to succeed. I honestly don't see how you don't think it is misleading. If he had stated his exact position and shown that he wasn't actually involved in developing the games, and that this was his first time doing something like this, then I would have taken your point.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
But only in a perfect world.
Though sounds like number 3 in the following article.
http://www.businessinsider.com/3-kickstarter-campaigns-gone-bad-2013-6
"I use to work at Microsoft in their games department"
What do you think that implies? Most people would read that as him saying he was a game developer at a major company. Technically he worked for a company that was contracted by Microsoft. He has no formal game development experience, which is something a lot of people backing would assume someone attempting a project of this magnitude would have.
I don't think anyone thinks he's trying to take the money and run, he is actually attempting make the game. But its become clear he has very little idea what he's doing and misrepresented himself as someone who does have an idea on his Kickstarter.
As of the moment... nothing.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
This is why I'm glad Kickstarter doesn't let people request refunds while things are still in production. Because in certain cases where there's an internet pile-on and a small group convince everyone to bail out, that could wreck a lot of projects.
Honestly, him including that he "worked for Microsoft" is better than him saying "I have no game experience"
Elessartelrunya
Member
So apparently I'm unbanned. First thing I see is a new section called forum rules. I appear to still be blocked from the developer diaries. Whatevs. Here's the new rules...
And here's my reply to his apology, and his reply to my e-mail:
"...all this time communicating..." really? It took almost 3 days for him to reply to my first e-mail. I sent multiple messages on Twitter (which he eventually blocked), and he thinks I see his communication as value to a backer?
Ugh. And he once again sidesteps my question regarding the immediate refund.
/done
And here's my reply to his apology, and his reply to my e-mail:
"...all this time communicating..." really? It took almost 3 days for him to reply to my first e-mail. I sent multiple messages on Twitter (which he eventually blocked), and he thinks I see his communication as value to a backer?
Ugh. And he once again sidesteps my question regarding the immediate refund.
/done
Thanks for the update. What really rubs me the wrong way is the Japan trip. I feel like plans like that should have been in the KS page upfront. Often a KS page will offer some thorough transparency and show where costs will be going, even projected costs. I also don't know if you really need to fly to Japan to find an artist, but that's admittedly outside my wheelhouse.
LegionX
Member
Umm, you asked to either be refunded OR unbanned in your email, he has removed the ban... so isn't that directly responding to your request?
Elessartelrunya
Member
He knows I want a refund, has already agreed to it (after the project is complete), but continues to ignore that and take the easy way out. Considering the shit storm I've started, his apology is still hollow, he's simply backpedaling at this point. I logged in to the forum and saw I still couldn't access the dev diaries = important information still being limited from a backer.
EDIT: I will concede that at least he unbanned me, but as I stated, I'm still blocked from viewing the dev diaries and learning about these "major" changes and what content is going to be cut.
I think there's a lot of piling on and overreacting going on here. I haven't seen evidence that this creator was scamming.
What's more, his project went *way* over its goal! It's not up to you to dictate what he does with those funds. If he wants, he could consider it profit.
From KS blog:
Less hand wringing, less freaking out, less piling on. It sounds to me, based on my initial assessment, we have a creator who may or may not be overambitious, who got into some kind of scuffle with one of his backers. This does not mean he's a scammer or a liar or even that his game will fail. Let's slow it down.
Elessartelrunya
Member
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=98876553
How does that not indicate he scammed the backers of this project? He completely lied about his experience with Microsoft. There's no grey here, he said "I use to work at Microsoft in their games department", and in reality he was a QA tester for another company that was contracted by Microsoft...completely different.
How do you know that he didn't work at their games department? I have no way of independently verifying his work history, if I missed something, then please get me up to speed.
And stretching QA tester contracted by MS may be stretching the truth, which I wouldn't condone, but again, I'm willing to assume the best about people until I have something more serious than that. He's still working o his game, showing stuff, and talking to backers. He's still "in it". If he wanted to scam and vanish, he would be gone.
graywolf323
Member
when I worked at Amazon they had temps and guess what? they would claim they worked at Amazon despite the fact they were actually temps via a third party but they went to the same place as the rest of us the only difference was their badge color (and they could be easily fired)
now he should have been more specific that he was a QA tester but you have at this point twisted this into a personal crusade from what I've witnessed
It was revealed that he was actually a game tester
Tertullian
Member
That Exclusivity clause is classic. Gotta silence that bad press!
graywolf323
Member
game testers work in the games department just be basic logic wouldn't they?
So someone can't be a tester and work for MS at two different times? How do you KNOW he never worked at MS?
The above scenario may be unlikely, but why are you guys trying to trash the guy without anything solid to go on? What if you're wrong and you guys are defaming him unjustly?
Give me something concrete, and maybe I'll join in the piling on. But I just can't contribute to some kind of internet rage pile on with no actual substantive evidence to go on and only one person from the dispute present. Maybe he's a jerk, maybe he's not a jerk, or maybe he's kind of a jerk but also not a scammer. Slow it down.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
How does anyone even think this is valid? Beg for money then go on vacation? Vacations are rewards, not entitlements.
stargateheaven
Member
I think you guys are starting to be a bit unfair here..
Maybe he hasn't handled things so well, but the project is still moving forward.
also, the humble bundle was mentioned because thats where the beta keys are being sent out.
Maybe he hasn't handled things so well, but the project is still moving forward.
also, the humble bundle was mentioned because thats where the beta keys are being sent out.
According to KS, a project is free to consider overfunding to be profit. And his project was, like it or not, very very overfunded. Whether or not it's good taste, who the hell knows, but it's not in itself evidence of a scammer.
I'm in agreement with greywolf here. Banning people for criticism was wrong and taking a trip to Japan was pretty pointless, but saying he scammed people and calling him a liar is going too far.
The fact that Mike had done those things just says it all about his character & makes me right about him. Pathetic.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
You're being disingenuous. Using KS money to take a vacation is not cool.
LegionX
Member
I know that every post I make in this thread seems to be me defending him, but I just went back to the Kickstarter page and there was never a "Backer access to special forums" bonus to the $15 pledge limit (I don't think there was one at all)
There is no Kickstarter requirement that says the creators need to share all details of their project with the backers, some choose to do so, some don't, and some use it to get people to bid at higher tiers.
So yea, sorry for once again responding negatively to you, but I figured it something worth pointing out.. if it had been one of the projects that specifically listed it as a benefit I'd understand though.
You kidding me? I don't know this guy at all, I don't know much about the project, I don't have any dog in this fight. I just know an internet rage pile on when I see one, and I'm telling you guys, you don't have anything solid on him that makes it okay to call him a scammer and a liar and a thief.
Well, you *did* say you wanted him to either refund your pledge OR unban you. He unbanned you, so you don't get to complain.
That said, it's very obvious that you'll never see the money or the game.
I asked him to elaborate on his credentials when the Kickstarter was happening and he wouldn't. I'd show you a link but he deleted my post. Throw in that nobody has been able to find any evidence that he ever worked directly for Microsoft. His credit on Fable specifically shows his contracting company in bracket. Basically all evidence points to him working only as a contract tester and there's absolutely no evidence showing that he worked at Microsoft as an actual developer. Don't you think that's something you'd mention on a Kickstarter or LinkedIn if that was the case?
I'm Elvis. How do you KNOW I'm not him? Because you're not an idiot.
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