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NBA2K10: Videogame Scam of the Year - post#476 you gotta be KIDDING
- Thread starter Smokey
- Start date
To me, these issues are more indicative of the institutional expectation for sports games to be churned out year after year. We see incomplete sports games come out as a result. I don't believe it's fair to wholly blame developers when they're working in a tight window, not to mention ancillary factors we probably know nothing about. VC didn't just say, "hur hur, we'll release the same game with slightly better guard mechanics." Does anyone believe the game (or Madden or NHL or FIFA, etc.) wouldn't be better without another 6 months in the oven? Think publishers care more about the finished product or getting the game out right before the season starts?Smokey said:
I wish Madden in particular would run in two year cycles with incremental DLC in the off-year, but why would EA bother when Madden sells X million year after year.
dsmoke1986
Member
Zyzyxxz said:
I agree, anyone can be angry at the developers/publishers because of this, but don't insult me(another gamer) because I like the game.
Talon- said:
Maybe it is the publisher's fault, but the devs themselves need to adapt and plan things out in a way that they have something that works rather than a bunch of unfinished features. Others seem to be able to deal with year-long development cycles in a much more manageable manner, case-in-point Sony's MLB game. When they moved over to the PS3, instead of simply pushing in every new and exciting feature they could at the start, they took an incremental approach, getting the base game and features up to spec before fleshing out the components that are lacking.
And this is a continual process. They added an awesome feature in 09 that lets you practice your batting skills against specific types of pitchers and get points based on your performance. They don't have any equivalent for pitchers. Why? The devs answered this themselves, saying that they have the design and everything all worked out but knew that the year-long development wasn't going to give them any room to implement both batting and pitcher practice, so they decided to focus entirely on the batting and save the pitching for the next game. No one complained, everyone understood why that decision was made, and the game was met with glowing reviews and is arguably the best baseball game ever made.
The development cycles for sports games do suck, but if 2K can't adapt to it and work out a plan that'll provide the best experience for everyone, then that's a complete and total failure on their part. It's even worse when other dev houses show what's possible despite only having a year at a time to get their products out. As I said in my very first post in this thread, such an effort is simply not acceptable.
dsmoke1986 said:
:lol It's not a situation where anyone needs to relax. It's just funny that Live has been panned by gamers for years now and you say you have liked it and now you move from what was a pretty bad game to a broken game. Sure you can see the good that is in 2k10 still, but the game doesn't work.
What I mean is if you compare bad to worse, then bad looks pretty good.
Sure, that's fair to a degree, but I also don't think it's an equivalent indicator to measure VC against a 1st party development studio. A more lateral comparison between EA Sports and 2K would make more sense.jman2050 said:
All I'm really saying is that there are so many factors behind the scenes (particularly with 2K having struggled over the last few years) that it doesn't seem fair to pile on the developer specifically. And, again, I don't absolve the developers outright.
Anyways, hopefully the market responds accordingly and moves to the better product (if Live is that) or just sits out. We shouldn't be rewarding this type of shit regardless of who's at fault: VC, 2K, or the industry's fixation on annual iterations. More likely a combination of all three.
Talon- said:
Live took great steps to better their product this season. It's nowhere near perfect, but it's about 20x better than what it was. I know personally, and on GAF, that quite a few people won't be buying NBA2K11 (at least not on day one). I don't know if this will ever change. Look at MLB The Show. Regarded as not just the best baseball game, but one of the best SPORTS games, yet MLB2K is still dogshit.
It's like nobody over there cares about anything.
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
Wow @ that patch. Eventually you're just going to get a menu on a disc with small print (game to be patched in later).
I was curious what my friend might have seen since this thread yesterday so I linked him to some of the videos and asked. Only thing he noticed was players' heads disappeared during replays sometimes. But it sucks to hear problems listed in this thread still exist after patch.
Blackzarak21
Neo Member
I seriously considered buying this game since I hadn't bought an NBA game in several years. I'm glad I didn't. Would I be better off getting 2k9?
RiotPelaaja
Remedy
I know a lot of the old Visual Concepts folks and they do work fucking hard on their games, but clearly, one of their achilles heel has been playtesting and that's something that's not (just) the developers, but the publishers fault as well. Cant believe that patch list!
3rdamention
Member
Smokey, you were preaching from the high mountains how awesome 2k10 was going to be if I remember correctly.
I am sorry it has been a disappointment. The issues with 2k9 that you mentioned are the exact reasons I bought Live 10 this year. Sure Live 10 isn't perfect, but it is pretty awesome and I am happy with it.
I am sorry it has been a disappointment. The issues with 2k9 that you mentioned are the exact reasons I bought Live 10 this year. Sure Live 10 isn't perfect, but it is pretty awesome and I am happy with it.
Arpharmd B
Banned
Ok what is with all the sponsers. I saw Gatorade, Sprite, Tmobile...
Sports game have gotten so shameless. Between yearly updates, tons of sponsers, and DLC you would think they'd be making enough money to be shipping finished games at least.
Sports game have gotten so shameless. Between yearly updates, tons of sponsers, and DLC you would think they'd be making enough money to be shipping finished games at least.
TheMissingLink
Member
Fucking pathetic.
Live deserved your purchases this year, you 2k fanboys. Hope you learned your lesson this year!
Live deserved your purchases this year, you 2k fanboys. Hope you learned your lesson this year!
speculawyer
Member
Dude . . . this is a sports game. TTWO has been more than generous about delaying games. Bioshock and Red Dead Redemption were both punted out of this year into next. And Mafia 2 was also punted out of this year into next despite already being in development forever.Talon- said:
But sports games . . . they come out on an annual basis and you really can't delay them. The dev teams really need to figure out what they can and can't deliver. They know the ship date is a hard date. This is why people whine about the games being 'nothing but roster updates'. It is really hard to get major amounts of changes done in a year.
Ever since 2K was Visual Concepts, their attitude has been not to give a shit about bugs. The goal is patch a few new features, and ship off the same product again. 'Will fix in next years version' is the most common response to any bug at their studio. I know this from the inside. :lol
seattle6418
Member
TheMissingLink said:
Wrong.
Even with the glitches, the department of Beluba and the improvment of Live, there's still a huge difference between the two games.
It's still uncomparable (offline).
Online to me, both are trash-cheat fests, like all sports games.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Talon- said:
This is not a dig at VC in particular, but many problems in sports games will only be noticed by the hardcore player. Many players will just accept things or not even notice something is broken. Live has it's fair share of problems, but they are really only noticeable after playing many games and trying to play at a high level.
The idea of "Let's just ship this crap and patch it later" seems to be the attitude of most sports game developers. Hell, the Live team was asking for suggestions for the patch even before the game was released. It seems that post-release is now some kind of level 2 QA. I don't think that is how it is supposed to be.
I played 2k for the last three years, and each year the quality and flow of the games has decreased as the bugs have increased.
I bought 2k10 hoping they had taken it in a better direction... after Shaq suddenly had MAX 3 POINT SKILL in his player progression for no reason, I took it back to the store.
I have been enjoying Live10 since then. Good game. Not great, but at least I can pull up for a jumper without a fifteen second delay. Na mean?
I bought 2k10 hoping they had taken it in a better direction... after Shaq suddenly had MAX 3 POINT SKILL in his player progression for no reason, I took it back to the store.
I have been enjoying Live10 since then. Good game. Not great, but at least I can pull up for a jumper without a fifteen second delay. Na mean?
speculawyer
Member
By what I understand, MS allows 3rd party publishers to get one 'free' patch for xbox 360 games and additional patches cost the developers money. Considering the amount of sales and the continued issues, I think 2K sports would be crazy not to do another patch. So I suspect that they'll do another patch.
Of course, the amount that can be fixed in a patch is limited. And is sucks that these issues were not fixed before release.
Of course, the amount that can be fixed in a patch is limited. And is sucks that these issues were not fixed before release.
speculawyer
Member
Really? No Bioshock? No Borderlands?faridmon said:
I can see getting mad at a specific developer by why punish other totally different developers?
Nightz said:
Off the top of my head $25.00.
speculawyer said:
Borderlands on PC is still eagerly anticipating a patch to fix all the issues it has. Perhaps everyone should just stay away from 2k, even the devs. I think Gearbox is a good studio but it seems like 2k is the plague that ruins everything.
speculawyer
Member
Uh . . . I think the game's issues is the devs fault. Do you really think the publisher is sitting around saying "We want you to put lots of bugs & issues in the game!"ithorien said:
speculawyer
Member
PC definitely getting the shaft all over (*cough*$59.99 for MW2*cough*). I think the server finding on PC Borderlands is a mess and I think I may give up on it and get the 360 version.ithorien said:
Blackzarak21
Neo Member
Considering all the problems with NBA2K10, is it better to buy 2k9 or Live 10?
Gully State
Member
Did the PS3 patch go up?
NathanMcMahon
Banned
EvilMario said:
He/She? speaks true. That response is used for every sports title bug that they do not want to fix. They know that the uninformed masses will still pay for shit so why would they care when the profit margin is still large enough to justify this behavior. It's sad too when so much venom is directed at QA when I guarantee that all of those bugs were found way before the title was slated to ship.
The "best" thing they could would be to ship the title and then just do a roster update the next season and then release a new game the following season. The 2 year dev cycle would help the problem. Unfortunately this will never happen.
