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[Jaeger]

 

[NoFaceNico]

You're damn straight.

 

[A Black Falcon]

As a developer, why would you port to a system where you have to manufacture and ship physical carts?

Because there are a good number of people who like to own physical products. The most natural move here is for people already making physical carts for classic consoles to support this, and we've seen that already (Pico, Collectorvision, Watermelon), but it'll need previously digital-only homebrew group support to succeed, sure. If it's good I hope it gets it.

As a consumer, why would you buy a Retro VGS when the same games on Steam or console will look better and cost less?

Why do you assume that they'd look better on other platforms? They might, or might not, who knows. But regardless, again, owning physical things is great. I have a lot of digital games, but definitely prefer physical. Wouldn't it be really cool to own physical copies of some of those digital-only classic-style indie games? And on actual cartridges, too? I think it would.

As a potential Kickstarter backer, you have to ask, does this team have the manufacturing experience to put out a high-quality product?

This one is a real concern, sure. The original Jaguar was not exactly known for its build quality, and yeah, nor is that controller they're using. They do have something to prove in this category, but I'm hopeful it turns out well.

C'mon dude, how hard is it to read what I posted - the point is still about the cartridges: "Moreover, it still remains that the cartidge itself is what this system is about."

But the point is, cartridges are the whole point of this system existing. What's the point of having download stuff when the primary reason this thing is being made is for carts? Download versions of many of the games are or will be on many other platforms... hopefully it gets some exclusives too, but most will probably be ports.

Certainly they will need some level of bug testing before publishing, though; that's what the original Nintendo Seal of Quality meant, that games were bug-tested by Nintendo and worked.

 

[ultrazilla]

Yacht Club games has been approached by Retro VGS regarding Shovel Knight.

 

[bmcphail2008]

As far as I know Shovel Knight used its own C++ engine with DirectX/Open GL for graphics (depending on platform). Seems to me that'd be pretty simple to port - the Retro VGS is powered by a fairly modern Arm CPU coupled with an FPGA, all you need to do is make the FPGA output simple tile-based graphics. Heck, they've even talked about trying to get Unity's 2D system working with it, so Unity developers could make games; Shovel Knight would be a lot more simple than that.

That's not my understanding of how the platform works. Based on what I've read, developers will have to either code or license an existing 8 or at best 16 bit console core or create their own. I don't believe running Direct X/Open GL is even an option given the way the platform is designed, at least not unless someone put in the extensive time and effort to create a core that could accomodate DirectX/OpenGL. Without that front end work, the developer would essentially have to reprogram the game to run under an existing core configuration supported by the platform and I am very skeptical that anyone, especially someone with a very successful game like Shovel Knight is going to spend any time or money doing that on a tiny niche platform where sales would likely be in the hundreds of units.

 

[bmcphail2008]

Yacht Club games has been approached by Retro VGS regarding Shovel Knight.

Yes, my understanding is that the team behind Retro VGS has approached many companies. Until those companies first commit and then actually deliver games, it means nothing.

 

[pizzapizza64]

I can't believe the negativity some of you have about this. It's a charming niche product, and that's okay. I also buy indie games on steam. However, I am a nostalgic 31 year old and I like owning cartridges.

And that's okay.

 

[bmcphail2008]

I can't believe the negativity some of you have about this. It's a charming niche product, and that's okay. I also buy indie games on steam. However, I am a nostalgic 31 year old and I like owning cartridges.

And that's okay.

Great, there are tons of homebrew authors out there that create neat games and release them on cartridge for lots of classic 8 bit and 16 bit platforms on a regular basis. From my perspective, there is no need to force people to buy a new "platform" just to be able to buy games in physical format. I would hope people would support those authors instead of dumping money into a totally unnecessary platform. Indeed, games like Shovel Knight and many others discussed as part of the potential release list for this platform are either already available in physical form from places like Indiebox or are on the way in the near future. This is just a poorly thought out idea that is seeking to serve a market niche that is already being well served by the original hardware that can be purchased very cheaply and by homebrew developers and publishers who could really use the support instead of having it diverted away into this pipe dream.

 

[ultrazilla]

I can't believe the negativity some of you have about this. It's a charming niche product, and that's okay. I also buy indie games on steam. However, I am a nostalgic 31 year old and I like owning cartridges.

And that's okay.

I love it! It's a nostalgia thing for me as well. I'm 43 and grew up on cartridge based systems.

I'm not expecting this to be a huge deal(but it could), rather it's taking me back to the fun of having, collecting
and playing physical carts.

I can plug in and play without internet prompts for patches, dlc or online microtransaction shops.

It's not everyone's cup of tea but for alot of us, it is. 😊

 

[pizzapizza64]

I love it! It's a nostalgia thing for me as well. I'm 43 and grew up on cartridge based systems.

I'm not expecting this to be a huge deal(but it could), rather it's taking me back to the fun of having, collecting
and playing physical carts.

I can plug in and play without internet prompts for patches, dlc or online microtransaction shops.

It's not everyone's cup of tea but for alot of us, it is. 😊

I like the vibes!

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Great, there are tons of homebrew authors out there that create neat games and release them on cartridge for lots of classic 8 bit and 16 bit platforms on a regular basis. From my perspective, there is no need to force people to buy a new "platform" just to be able to buy games in physical format. I would hope people would support those authors instead of dumping money into a totally unnecessary platform. Indeed, games like Shovel Knight and many others discussed as part of the potential release list for this platform are either already available in physical form from places like Indiebox or are on the way in the near future. This is just a poorly thought out idea that is seeking to serve a market niche that is already being well served by the original hardware that can be purchased very cheaply and by homebrew developers and publishers who could really use the support instead of having it diverted away into this pipe dream.

 

[FrozenCell]

looks fun, though 30 years too late

 

[Koren]

That's not my understanding of how the platform works. Based on what I've read, developers will have to either code or license an existing 8 or at best 16 bit console core or create their own. I don't believe running Direct X/Open GL is even an option given the way the platform is designed, at least not unless someone put in the extensive time and effort to create a core that could accomodate DirectX/OpenGL.

That's not what he was alluding to (at least, what I understood). Even if a 2D game like Shovel Knight use DirectX / OpenGL, it's usually mostly for a single operation: blitting a piece of texture to the screen.

The graphical engine of this kind of game can often be ported quite easily* (even if it can be a lengthy process) to an existing core with a tiles&sprites renderer, like most 8/16 bits consoles.

* depends heavily on the way the game is written, though.

looks fun, though 30 years too late

You wanted a retro 8/16bits console to appear before the NES? ^_^

 

[Freshmaker]

Because there are a good number of people who like to own physical products. The most natural move here is for people already making physical carts for classic consoles to support this, and we've seen that already (Pico, Collectorvision, Watermelon), but it'll need previously digital-only homebrew group support to succeed, sure. If it's good I hope it gets it.

I don't know how good a number actually demand physical only. Of those, I wonder how many who want a PS4 game they can hold in their hands translates into a re-purposed Jaguar shell running gimped cell phone tech.

I still get the sense that the people behind this project expect games to appear just as a labor of love or something. They really have nothing to offer prospective devs other than feels.

Why do you assume that they'd look better on other platforms? They might, or might not, who knows. But regardless, again, owning physical things is great. I have a lot of digital games, but definitely prefer physical. Wouldn't it be really cool to own physical copies of some of those digital-only classic-style indie games? And on actual cartridges, too? I think it would.

I'm always down to waste more space whenever possible.

The original Jaguar was not exactly known for its build quality

Don't recall the Jaguar shell being notorious for breaking.

But the point is, cartridges are the whole point of this system existing.

Are people that dedicated to one form of media distribution?

 

[Dreamwriter]

Great, there are tons of homebrew authors out there that create neat games and release them on cartridge for lots of classic 8 bit and 16 bit platforms on a regular basis. From my perspective, there is no need to force people to buy a new "platform" just to be able to buy games in physical format.

No there aren't - there are a *very few* that release games on cartridge for classic systems, they generally release a very tiny number of cartridges because they cost so much to manufacture, which means they become super-collector items costing huge amounts on eBay to acquire. And it requires you own the console you want to play it on. I mean, if you want to play someone's NES game, gotta have an NES hooked up; Genesis game, gotta have a Genesis hooked up; Neo Geo game gotta have the Neo Geo hooked up.

Here you have one console that can do all those classic systems, and they'll manufacture the cartridges for the developer for cheap and sell some of them themselves in their own store. And it can do more than just be those classic systems too, so a game like Shovel Knight would be possible though it was written purely for PC in C++.

That's not my understanding of how the platform works. Based on what I've read, developers will have to either code or license an existing 8 or at best 16 bit console core or create their own. I don't believe running Direct X/Open GL is even an option given the way the platform is designed, at least not unless someone put in the extensive time and effort to create a core that could accomodate DirectX/OpenGL. Without that front end work, the developer would essentially have to reprogram the game to run under an existing core configuration supported by the platform and I am very skeptical that anyone, especially someone with a very successful game like Shovel Knight is going to spend any time or money doing that on a tiny niche platform where sales would likely be in the hundreds of units.

You are mistaken. First, the FPGA cores will primarily be provided from Retro VGS, they are the ones licensing the cores and creating new ones, not developers. And second, the system is running a modern Arm CPU with an FPGA; becoming another console is an option but not required, like I said they've even said they want to make it compatible with Unity. Here's what it says in the official FAQ:

The RETRO VGS will have its own cool configurations (ways to make a game), and it can also be hardware-configured to be other old-school architectures that a lot of developers are used to developing for. Specifically, and at this current time, it’s an FPGA and ARM system.

And I wasn't saying it would run DirectX or OpenGL, I was saying they could make an FPGA core that could output basic tiles and sprites with parallax scrolling, that would allow the developers of Shovel Knight to easily port their game (or get another developer to port it for them).

Of those, I wonder how many who want a PS4 game they can hold in their hands translates into a re-purposed Jaguar shell running gimped cell phone tech

What? Where did you get the idea this is running gimped cell phone tech?

 

[Freshmaker]

What? Where did you get the idea this is running gimped cell phone tech?

What is it using then?

 

[bmcphail2008]

No there aren't - there are a *very few* that release games on cartridge for classic systems, they generally release a very tiny number of cartridges because they cost so much to manufacture, which means they become super-collector items costing huge amounts on eBay to acquire. And it requires you own the console you want to play it on. I mean, if you want to play someone's NES game, gotta have an NES hooked up; Genesis game, gotta have a Genesis hooked up; Neo Geo game gotta have the Neo Geo hooked up.

Here you have one console that can do all those classic systems, and they'll manufacture the cartridges for the developer for cheap and sell some of them themselves in their own store. And it can do more than just be those classic systems too, so a game like Shovel Knight would be possible though it was written purely for PC in C++.


You are mistaken. First, the FPGA cores will primarily be provided from Retro VGS, they are the ones licensing the cores and creating new ones, not developers. And second, the system is running a modern Arm CPU with an FPGA; becoming another console is an option but not required, like I said they've even said they want to make it compatible with Unity. Here's what it says in the official FAQ:



And I wasn't saying it would run DirectX or OpenGL, I was saying they could make an FPGA core that could output basic tiles and sprites with parallax scrolling, that would allow the developers of Shovel Knight to easily port their game (or get another developer to port it for them).

We're just going to have to disagree on this as I have a pretty extensive library of homebrew carts and you can buy them easily and relatively cheaply from a number of places including Atariage and on various forums. In fact, several of the companies being mentioned as supplying games for the Retro VGS are companies that sell homebrews for classic consoles on cartridge already (often with boxes and manuals) and all of them have been doing so for years at this point. Moreover, there are some vendors that even allow you to custom purchase virtually any binary out there on a cartridge with a custom label and in some cases a box and manual.

In my experience, the reason certain homebrews sell out or are made in small quantities is that there just isn't a massive market for classic games in cartridge format when there are thousands of old commercially released cartridge games that are out there waiting to be collected and played that most people never have the time to get to. Frankly, the economics of buying a homebrew at $30-$50 just aren't there for many gamers when you can in some cases buy dozens of older commercially released cartridges for various classic systems for the same price. Sure, there are some homebrews that become rare and desirable, but there are also many, many homebrews that never sell out or go up in value and can be bought years later from the original developer/publisher at the launch MSRP or less.

It's pretty easy to keep a number of classic consoles hooked up to a TV using a switcher. Certainly, if space is an issue, there are companies that make consoles like the Retron that can play multiple cartridges from numerous platforms already.

Finally, on the Shovel Knight issue, yes, a game like Shovel Knight could be programmed to run on an 8 bit or 16 bit core or even a custom core if someone wanted to essentially take the graphic elements and start from scratch on building the game engine for an entirely new platform. I just don't think most commercial developers have the time or interest in doing that when they can just support all of the other platforms with install bases of millions of potential purchasers much more easily by using the tools already in place to allow them to use the majority of their code and assets as-is rather than messing around with a quirky custom platform with an unknown user base. I suppose if they could get Unity running on their platform, that would streamline the process, but not everybody uses Unity and that's going to require some significant time and financial resources on top of everything else they are trying to pull off here. Moreover, Shovel Knight is getting a physical release on disc and cartridge already this fall for the PS4, Xbox One and 3DS, so I'm not really seeing the novelty or benefit of also releasing it for a niche platform that won't necessarily run the game any better.

 

[Lafazar]

And I wasn't saying it would run DirectX or OpenGL, I was saying they could make an FPGA core that could output basic tiles and sprites with parallax scrolling, that would allow the developers of Shovel Knight to easily port their game (or get another developer to port it for them).

You GREATLY underestimate how difficult and time-consuming it would be to port a game like Shovel Knight to a different API. A game does not only consist of graphics functions and draw calls. The testing and QA alone would make porting a game of that complexity and length a certain loss from a financial standpoint.

Even basic indie games are way more complex nowadays than they were in the 8/16 bit era. The games I see feasible for this retro console are REALLY simple and basic games (Space invaders, Pac Man, etc.). Otherwise as a developer you will face this choice: make a sloppy quick port almost certainly losing features or containing bugs or a really expensive port effort with QA that will almost certainly lose you money.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Well, people will vote with their wallet. I won't be supporting it but yeah.

 

[dancrane212]

That's not my understanding of how the platform works. Based on what I've read, developers will have to either code or license an existing 8 or at best 16 bit console core or create their own. I don't believe running Direct X/Open GL is even an option given the way the platform is designed, at least not unless someone put in the extensive time and effort to create a core that could accomodate DirectX/OpenGL. Without that front end work, the developer would essentially have to reprogram the game to run under an existing core configuration supported by the platform and I am very skeptical that anyone, especially someone with a very successful game like Shovel Knight is going to spend any time or money doing that on a tiny niche platform where sales would likely be in the hundreds of units.

The developer of Songbringer didnt go into any specific detail about the porting process (doubt he had any at this stage), but he did say the Retro VGS team told him they are supporting OpenGL.

 

[FrozenCell]

You wanted a retro 8/16bits console to appear before the NES? ^_^

as long as Famicom counts as NES .)

 

[KMS]

Sorry but seems so crazy niche that it makes no sense to me. Would the thing get more games released than the virtual boy?

 

[MrCunningham]

Interesting to see this one pick up in interest. What are the specs for this machine? Did they announce anything?

 

[j^aws]

...
But the point is, cartridges are the whole point of this system existing. What's the point of having download stuff when the primary reason this thing is being made is for carts? Download versions of many of the games are or will be on many other platforms... hopefully it gets some exclusives too, but most will probably be ports.

Yes, I'm fully aware this is a cartridge only system. You were claiming I'm missing the point. Rather than go around in circles wasting time, my reply was to this post:

They have definitely ruled out any Internet connectivity whatsoever. They tried to spin it as a way to prevent developers from releasing unfinished or buggy games, but the reality is that there have been plenty of buggy and unfinished commercially released cartridge games over the years and to the extent this thing gets any support, I would bet there will be buggy and unfinished games released for this thing too. Unfortunately, unlike modern consoles where bugs can be fixed with an update, there likely won't be any easy way of fixing buggy or defective carts for this thing. Coupled with the fact that these games are mostly homebrew and don't have massive QA testing teams going over them, I think it's just a recipe for disaster, especially if they attempt to get any actual retail support.

They need to tweak their distribution model. Here's a simple suggestion:

1) Enable online connectivity and distribute games with this.
2) Patch games via online as and when required.
3) Release Master Cartridge with final code fixes at a premium.

The Master Cartridge would be the collectors item, with a printed manual, artbook, illustrations or whatever. Moreover, it still remains that the cartidge itself is what this system is about.

This is adding a choice, not removing cartridges. Besides adding a channel to fix bugs, this is giving the platform a larger market base for both developers and interested consumers. Rather than getting into a discussion on DD VS Physical, this appeases both parties with the focus on physical cartridges.

Alternatively, they could use online connectivity only to fix bugs in cartridges after release and not offer an online marketplace. These cartridges would be designed to handle this. However, your're removing a revenue stream.

Certainly they will need some level of bug testing before publishing, though; that's what the original Nintendo Seal of Quality meant, that games were bug-tested by Nintendo and worked.

Nintendo used fees from their licensing model to ensure this higher level of Q&A. And even then, you can have issues after release. What kind of licensing model does the Retro team have? Do they even have one?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

LOL! I love how you just spent the whole thread arguing the small market for this, but then turn around with such ease when thinking about the awesomeness we can get out of it

Haha. I only posted twice! I'm not sure what was going on with some of the quotes above, but some of them people have posted with my name weren't my posts.

I do think this thing will be impossible to sustain, but if the price is good enough, I want one. I have an RGB modded SNES, NES, Genesis, and N64 along with a Framemeister Mini, so I'm pretty in on spending money on dumb video game things.

 

[NeOak]

What is it using then?

Embedded system tech.

The fact that you can't distinguish between this and "cell-phone tech" shows your lack of knowledge regarding hardware.

I mean, where do you see a fucking LTE antenna in this device?

What cellphone has a FPGA?

 

[Vinnk]

I know many of you in this thread will think I'm crazy but I'll be buying this Day 1. And I'll be picking up several of the titles made for it.

I LOVE physical media, especially carts. I love manuals, box art, snap lock cases, the works.

The gaming industry moved away from these things long, long ago. And most people do not miss them (or are too young to even know of them).

But then there is the like 2% of gamers who DO care. And if the price and quality are right I think there is a tiny buy hungry market for a product like this.

I buy homebrew carts, actual retro system carts (Famicom, PC engine, Atari, etc) and now I will have another option to buy games on that preserves that old-school feel while also getting some new content.

Most people see no reason for this to exist. I understand. But for some people this might be just what we are looking for. Because we ARE a bit nuts, and value physical objects far too much.

No need to be so negative. If it succeeds it's not going to take any of your new games away from you. If it flops it's not gonna hurt anyone. Either way I'll have one of these things on my shelf next to my actual Jaguar.

 

[Khaz]

Why would any dev make a game for a new 8/16bits console when there are already millions of NES, SMS, Megadrives and SNES in the wild? Especially when considering that homebrew games made for these established systems usually barely sell by the hundreds.

 

[C-Sword]

I was a bit interested until I found out they wanted the cheapest parts to make their console.

No dust cover for the cartridge slot.

They want their controllers to be made by the same people that made the horrible 3rd party Wii U Pro.

 

[Hubbl3]

I know many of you in this thread will think I'm crazy but I'll be buying this Day 1. And I'll be picking up several of the titles made for it.

I LOVE physical media, especially carts. I love manuals, box art, snap lock cases, the works.

The gaming industry moved away from these things long, long ago. And most people do not miss them (or are too young to even know of them).

But then there is the like 2% of gamers who DO care. And if the price and quality are right I think there is a tiny buy hungry market for a product like this.

I buy homebrew carts, actual retro system carts (Famicom, PC engine, Atari, etc) and now I will have another option to buy games on that preserves that old-school feel while also getting some new content.

Most people see no reason for this to exist. I understand. But for some people this might be just what we are looking for. Because we ARE a bit nuts, and value physical objects far too much.

No need to be so negative. If it succeeds it's not going to take any of your new games away from you. If it flops it's not gonna hurt anyone. Either way I'll have one of these things on my shelf next to my actual Jaguar.

I'm right there with you! In general, I feel like I'm not the target audience for the modern game industry anymore. Digital-only doesn't interest me, DLC, season passes and micro-transactions don't interest me and achievements/trophies and online features don't interest me.

I miss using my imagination while gaming, I miss games being a product and not a service, I miss turn-based RPGS and I miss having boxes/manuals/inserts and carts with games.

Like you said, this thing may flop and it may get made fun of like the Ouya in the future, but I'm more excited by it than anything the big 3 are doing right now. It won't be a console for everyone and that's fine, but for right now it's sounding like a console for me and it's nice to know that there are people out there still willing to cater to people with gaming habits like ours.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I know many of you in this thread will think I'm crazy but I'll be buying this Day 1. And I'll be picking up several of the titles made for it.

I LOVE physical media, especially carts. I love manuals, box art, snap lock cases, the works.

The gaming industry moved away from these things long, long ago. And most people do not miss them (or are too young to even know of them).

But then there is the like 2% of gamers who DO care. And if the price and quality are right I think there is a tiny buy hungry market for a product like this.

I buy homebrew carts, actual retro system carts (Famicom, PC engine, Atari, etc) and now I will have another option to buy games on that preserves that old-school feel while also getting some new content.

Most people see no reason for this to exist. I understand. But for some people this might be just what we are looking for. Because we ARE a bit nuts, and value physical objects far too much.

No need to be so negative. If it succeeds it's not going to take any of your new games away from you. If it flops it's not gonna hurt anyone. Either way I'll have one of these things on my shelf next to my actual Jaguar.

I'm with you! I'm definitely getting one of these and I plan on buying most of the games released for it.

 

[Freshmaker]

Embedded system tech.

The fact that you can't distinguish between this and "cell-phone tech" shows your lack of knowledge regarding hardware.

Weird. A vague term that could mean anything (hardware graphics acceleration would qualify under this term as would video decoding etc.) somehow proves I'm a dolt.

I mean, where do you see a fucking LTE antenna in this device?

What cellphone has a FPGA?

You're right. Ouya wasn't based on cell phone HW at all since it didn't have a LTE antenna. I apologize profusely.

 

[NoFaceNico]

No need to be so negative. If it succeeds it's not going to take any of your new games away from you. If it flops it's not gonna hurt anyone. Either way I'll have one of these things on my shelf next to my actual Jaguar.

No, if it flops it's not going to hurt them. On Kickstarter, the backers carry all of the risk. They could take your money and leave you with nothing but empty shelf space.

A lot of the supporters are saying they don't understand why others are so negative. Well, that's how the internet works. No one should put something up and expect to be immune to criticism. Just like the internet is great place for fans to congregate and support an idea, it's also a great place for critics to refute it and have their opinions heard. That criticism can intensify when someone's trying to sell a product, or even worse- a Kickstarter (since you have to front the cost of getting the idea off the ground). It's like when a pyramid scheme shows up in your neighborhood. You can't help but criticize it and let your opinions be known. Especially in the wake of the Ouya and all of its imitators, I think a lot of gamers have less patience for pie-in-the-sky Kickstarter projects.

I was a bit interested until I found out they wanted the cheapest parts to make their console.

No dust cover for the cartridge slot.

They want their controllers to be made by the same people that made the horrible 3rd party Wii U Pro.

To their credit, as someone else mentioned, the Jaguar case isn't bad. But then again, it's pretty damn hard to screw up a case. The only game console where I consider the case to be a weak point would be the SNES since it can yellow and become brittle. But I agree with you, the Jaguar does have some odd design choices starting with the lack of a dust cover. Plus, it has some exposed pins in the back that weren't covered up either. It doesn't hurt the console but it always looked odd, I don't even think they ever used them. I guess they'll use that space for video output but I wonder what they're going to do with the other holes. I'm sure they're not going to fill them in if they already said that adding a dust cover would increase production costs.

 

[Dreamwriter]

What is it using then?

It's a custom game console based around an ARM CPU and an FPGA in an Atari Jaguar case. Saying it's gimped cellphone tech would be like saying a PS4 or 3DS is gimped cellphone tech. This isn't an Android device, it's not based on a Tegra or Snapdragon or whatever. There has been literally not one hint at it being related in any way to any cell phone, yet you immediately jump to that conclusion based on...what?

I was a bit interested until I found out they wanted the cheapest parts to make their console.

No dust cover for the cartridge slot.

They want their controllers to be made by the same people that made the horrible 3rd party Wii U Pro.

And you know what was horrible about that controller? Its wireless reception. Guess what you don't have to worry about on the Retro VGS, wireless reception They didn't choose that controller because it was cheap, but because it's a SNES controller with two thumb sticks and a handle, which was exactly what they wanted.

 

[emb]

Why would any dev make a game for a new 8/16bits console when there are already millions of NES, SMS, Megadrives and SNES in the wild? Especially when considering that homebrew games made for these established systems usually barely sell by the hundreds.

Why would any dev make any game when there are already millions of games that exist?

 

[Morfeo]

Haha. I only posted twice! I'm not sure what was going on with some of the quotes above, but some of them people have posted with my name weren't my posts.

I do think this thing will be impossible to sustain, but if the price is good enough, I want one. I have an RGB modded SNES, NES, Genesis, and N64 along with a Framemeister Mini, so I'm pretty in on spending money on dumb video game things.

Yeah Im right with you on both of those. Spending money on dumb old video games, but also not have any faith in the market for this.

 

[Theonik]

The killer feature for me is being able to hook up a Sega Megadrive controller to this thing. ie, the BESTEST controller.

 

[caffeware]

I'm confused on how this works. So I send a rom to them and they make it into cartridges which they send back to me to sell or do the give some kind of kit for cartridge home making?

Won't there be pirated copies of retro games all over the place with this?

HEy Dreamwriter, are you making a game for this?

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Plus, it has some exposed pins in the back that weren't covered up either. It doesn't hurt the console but it always looked odd, I don't even think they ever used them. I guess they'll use that space for video output but I wonder what they're going to do with the other holes. I'm sure they're not going to fill them in if they already said that adding a dust cover would increase production costs.

Those pins were used for Composite/S-Video cables. I know, because that's what I had on my Jaguar .

 

[Vinnk]

No, if it flops it's not going to hurt them. On Kickstarter, the backers carry all of the risk. They could take your money and leave you with nothing but empty shelf space.

A lot of the supporters are saying they don't understand why others are so negative. Well, that's how the internet works. No one should put something up and expect to be immune to criticism. Just like the internet is great place for fans to congregate and support an idea, it's also a great place for critics to refute it and have their opinions heard. That criticism can intensify when someone's trying to sell a product, or even worse- a Kickstarter (since you have to front the cost of getting the idea off the ground). It's like when a pyramid scheme shows up in your neighborhood. You can't help but criticize it and let your opinions be known. Especially in the wake of the Ouya and all of its imitators, I think a lot of gamers have less patience for pie-in-the-sky Kickstarter projects.

Is your main objection with Kickstarter? I agree that a lot of people are burned out on KS. But most of the same criticism can be used on any project. And yeah, not all the details are out yet, if the KS looks sketchy, I (and other reasonable people) won't back it. I'll use my best judgement when new details emerge.

The guy who is doing project has already had 2 successful Kickstarters that were produced and delivered so I think if funding is met this will be shipped. But all Kickstarters are "Backer Beware" so I still don't see that anyone is going to be hurt unless they have no idea what KS is or it's history.

Actually the ones running the Kickstarter could be hurt. They already invested in the Jaguar molds and if doesn't ship or live up to expectations it will ruin their reputation and probably take down their print magazine. I think they have a lot to loose and little to gain by trying to deceive people.

It is indeed important to be cautious. And also to criticize. It keeps people honest and informed. But some of the negativity in this thread (and I'm not calling you out here) has just been mean spirited. It's fun to bash something that we personally think is a dumb idea. And if the project had stated that this was going to be an "Xbox One or PS4 Killer" I would be right there with everyone ripping this to spreads. But as it stands it is an extremely niche product for an extremely niche (but devoted) crowd.

 

[Freshmaker]

It's a custom game console based around an ARM CPU and an FPGA in an Atari Jaguar case. Saying it's gimped cellphone tech would be like saying a PS4 or 3DS is gimped cellphone tech. This isn't an Android device, it's not based on a Tegra or Snapdragon or whatever. There has been literally not one hint at it being related in any way to any cell phone, yet you immediately jump to that conclusion based on...what?

That's a better answer than buzzwords. I tried to watch an announcement about this thing on Gamester81's channel and I hard a hard time caring once the basic concept was described.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I'm confused on how this works. So I send a rom to them and they make it into cartridges which they send back to me to sell or do the give some kind of kit for cartridge home making?

Won't there be pirated copies of retro games all over the place with this?

HEy Dreamwriter, are you making a game for this?

Yeah, sounds like you send your game's ROM to them and pay them to manufacture your cartridges, complete with case and instructions, and they send you the complete deal. Also, if they like a game enough, they'll offer to sell the game for you on their own website, manufacturing carts as the orders come in. As for pirated copies of retro games, they aren't using standard Flash carts or anything, a pirate would have to figure out the interface and make their own fake carts and stuff. If the thing becomes big enough I'm sure it'll happen eventually, but that's a big if.

I've been working on an NES game in my spare time just for fun, not sure if it'll end up a complete game or not (it's still in the early development stages). If I do make it into a complete game I'll definitely ship it on Retro VGS, but I haven't been working with them or anything, just listening to the podcast interviews and doing research. I will say that without Retro VGS there would be little chance of my game being put on cartridge, because even though it's an NES game I'm developing it around an MMC5 "chip", which isn't supported by NES flash carts very well.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Yes, I'm fully aware this is a cartridge only system. You were claiming I'm missing the point. Rather than go around in circles wasting time, my reply was to this post:

This is adding a choice, not removing cartridges. Besides adding a channel to fix bugs, this is giving the platform a larger market base for both developers and interested consumers. Rather than getting into a discussion on DD VS Physical, this appeases both parties with the focus on physical cartridges.

Alternatively, they could use online connectivity only to fix bugs in cartridges after release and not offer an online marketplace. These cartridges would be designed to handle this. However, your're removing a revenue stream.

Having some kind of downloadable-games system would be a LOT more work than you suggest. You'd need something to save the games to (SD port? USB flashdrive support? Built-in memory and the above? Cartridge with SD port?), servers to download from, accounts and account security measures, etc etc. And for what? For something that'd make the system much less distinct when compared to any other current platform. I don't see the point, really; downloadable games should be at most a minor thing here.

Also, they made it very clear that they want a system which will work for a long time. Anything online won't, because those servers won't stay up forever.

However, the concept of downloadable games for games not successful enough to justify cartridges has a long history. Think of the SNES Nintendo Power and Satellaview systems in Japan, for example. But why not just play those games on literally every other console out there today? And maybe costs here will be low enough to make cart runs possible for lots of games. The details will be interesting to see.

Also, an online service could get you online play and high-score uploads. Those features would be nice, for some games, high score tables particularly. They're hardly essential, though, not when, again, all modern consoles have them, and this is not going to be anyone's primary console I'm sure. So I'm fine with their decision to not have internet connectivity.

Nintendo used fees from their licensing model to ensure this higher level of Q&A. And even then, you can have issues after release. What kind of licensing model does the Retro team have? Do they even have one?

Who knows, we'll have to wait for the kickstarter to hear the details.

I don't know how good a number actually demand physical only.

Who ever said 'physical only'? I imagine most people buying this thing will have other consoles or computers which they can play digital games on.

I still get the sense that the people behind this project expect games to appear just as a labor of love or something. They really have nothing to offer prospective devs other than feels.

Sure, there is a challenge here -- buyers will come because of games, but developers because of buyers. You need one to have the other. Hopefully if it's good developers do support the system; the details of the licensing and sale model will be important, I imagine, as well as how easy or hard it'll be to port over indie game designed for modern consoles (or PCs), as opposed to just indie games for old consoles. I don't know if this thing will be a success, or any good, but I hope it will be, it's an interesting idea. And I hope developers do support it.

I'm always down to waste more space whenever possible.

I sure am, at least.

Don't recall the Jaguar shell being notorious for breaking.

The Jagaur console is notorious for being somewhat poorly and cheaply made and failing more often than they probably should, and the system has, as has been pointed out, multiple cheap design elements -- note the lack of a door over the cart slot and that bare edge connector instead of accessory and video cable ports. The Jag CD is also notorious for failing. Of course this won't be the Jaguar, but it'll still have no cart door. I hope they do do something about that bare edge connector on the back, though.

Are people that dedicated to one form of media distribution?

As much as I love the prices of downloadable PC games when they go on sale, I don't want to see physical media go away! And I'm clearly not the only one.

 

[Lafazar]

The guy who is doing project has already had 2 successful Kickstarters that were produced and delivered so I think if funding is met this will be shipped. But all Kickstarters are "Backer Beware" so I still don't see that anyone is going to be hurt unless they have no idea what KS is or it's history.

Make that one successful and delivered Kickstarter. Year Two of RETRO Video Game Magazine has barely begun to be sent out and judging from the comments there's quite a few people with problems that don't seem to be getting an answer:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/socalmike/retro-video-game-magazine-year-two/comments
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...game-magazine-year-two/posts/1249621#comments

I didn't even back the second Kickstarter because I was turned off by the abysmal image quality and silly watermarks of the digital release in the first year. The content was fine, but reading it was no fun with such horrible image quality.

 

[weekend_warrior]

I bought I to the Ouya hype train. Not gonna fool me again.

 

[ultrazilla]

I bought I to the Ouya hype train. Not gonna fool me again.

This is NOTHING like Ouya.

Anyways, the RETRO VGS website has official forums up for folks here:

http://www.gamegavel.com/forum/forum.php

Sign up and join the discussion(I just did and I'm waiting approval).

 

[dickroach]

It's a crowdfunded console that's success is completely contingent on whether there will be enough demand for publishers to actually make games for the console. kinda like the ouya.

 

[DesuNe]

I wish it luck but I find it hard to believe that many publishers will invest anything into this. The return would be so minimal compared to their absurd standards. Without big publishers, indie devs won't be enough to keep this afloat.

It's a great dream but the bigger market will laugh and tell you that cartridges died for a reason: profit.

 

[ultrazilla]

It's a crowdfunded console that's success is completely contingent on whether there will be enough demand for publishers to actually make games for the console. kinda like the ouya.

I'm not entirely sure some folks out there are understanding what the RetroVGS is going for in terms of publisher support and "making money" on it.

Basically the Retro folks want to make the entry point for developing and making cartridges for it so cheap that it won't hurt for them to say "hey, they have 10,000 consoles sold, I'll put my game on it", gauge interest and produce the cartridges.

Retro wants to keep the risk to the small guys/indies and developers in general very LOW.

With the developers dictating how many cartridges they want produced based on demand for their game, it's very little risk to them financially.

If they have an online store and sell 50 of their games for the Retro console, they contact Retro who produces exactly 50 cartridges for them with manuals and boxes.

 

[ultrazilla]

All I want is AXELAY II.

No joke, Konami teased us with the ending of Axelay by saying "See you in Axelay 2"

All the Konami jokes aside(I know this wouldn't happen even if the planets aligned) this is one of the areas Retro VGS said they wanted to pursue: sequels or games based on some of the older 8 bit/16 bit classics.