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[Emperor Bohe]

I love the idea of this, although I must admit I'd prefer a digital marketplace in addition to cartridges. If online multiplayer is in, I'm sure I'll be there for day one with a friend or two.

that is a good point. has any online multiplayer for this been elaborated on? and the only way I'll get interested in this is if they have good exclusives. if all of the games are also on Steam/XBLA/Wii U/PSN/mobile etc... then I'm not sure that I'll bite.

 

[Tempy]

Having CollectorVision, Watermelon, and Piko on board is promising.

I wonder if it's possible to develop and distribute your own programs without having to use carts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

New special Kickstarter color:

That is sexy. I will definitely back this when it goes up.

Now I want some pancakes.

 

[bmcphail2008]

that is a good point. has any online multiplayer for this been elaborated on? and the only way I'll get interested in this is if they have good exclusives. if all of the games are also on Steam/XBLA/Wii U/PSN/mobile etc... then I'm not sure that I'll bite.

They have definitely ruled out any Internet connectivity whatsoever. They tried to spin it as a way to prevent developers from releasing unfinished or buggy games, but the reality is that there have been plenty of buggy and unfinished commercially released cartridge games over the years and to the extent this thing gets any support, I would bet there will be buggy and unfinished games released for this thing too. Unfortunately, unlike modern consoles where bugs can be fixed with an update, there likely won't be any easy way of fixing buggy or defective carts for this thing. Coupled with the fact that these games are mostly homebrew and don't have massive QA testing teams going over them, I think it's just a recipe for disaster, especially if they attempt to get any actual retail support.

 

[j^aws]

They have definitely ruled out any Internet connectivity whatsoever. They tried to spin it as a way to prevent developers from releasing unfinished or buggy games, but the reality is that there have been plenty of buggy and unfinished commercially released cartridge games over the years and to the extent this thing gets any support, I would bet there will be buggy and unfinished games released for this thing too. Unfortunately, unlike modern consoles where bugs can be fixed with an update, there likely won't be any easy way of fixing buggy or defective carts for this thing. Coupled with the fact that these games are mostly homebrew and don't have massive QA testing teams going over them, I think it's just a recipe for disaster, especially if they attempt to get any actual retail support.

They need to tweak their distribution model. Here's a simple suggestion:

1) Enable online connectivity and distribute games with this.
2) Patch games via online as and when required.
3) Release Master Cartridge with final code fixes at a premium.

The Master Cartridge would be the collectors item, with a printed manual, artbook, illustrations or whatever. Moreover, it still remains that the cartidge itself is what this system is about.

 

[SegaShack]

Honestly I wish a lot of modern games wouldn't have patching capabilities. It is beneficial but too often it is used as a fall back. Major releases were better made back then than they are now.

 

[emb]

I feel like patching is more of nuisance than it's usually worth.

Though I think the negatives will be expounded upon when you have especially small, amateur teams building games and sending out carts.

I'm happier without it, though there's a case to be made.

 

[Leynos]

While I like the concept of going back to the days of games being complete, and no worry of patches, but those days are gone. I imagine that just about every game released for the Retro VGS will also appear on digital markets which will get patched, and Retro owners will possibly be stuck with busted games. I doubt that modern game devs will spend extra money, and time to be doubly sure that their games are rock-solid just because the game is going to be released on a cartridge. The only options are to include internet connectivity, and some form of storage, or issue recalls, or just deal with inferior versions of games available elsewhere. And we all know which scenario will come to pass.

 

[The Albatross]

Can't see how any small developer would want to go back to the Era of eating inventory for something that doesn't sell. This is a barrier of entry that digital games fixed.

Sure it's nice to take a cart, plug it into a system and have it work, but yknow, there's a reason atari buried a million ET carts in the desert.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Can't see how any small developer would want to go back to the Era of eating inventory for something that doesn't sell. This is a barrier of entry that digital games fixed.

Sure it's nice to take a cart, plug it into a system and have it work, but yknow, there's a reason atari buried a million ET carts in the desert.

...because they manufactured too many A small developer could just manufacture 25 copies of their game if they were really worried about eating inventory, or if the game is good enough sell it through the Retro VGS store, where I'm sure they'll only manufacture games as needed.

 

[baphomet]

New special Kickstarter color:

I really hope its purple with a badly made decal of chips covering it.

 

[NoFaceNico]

I really hope its purple with a badly made decal of chips covering it.

It's real. That's what 64 bits looks like. Do the math.

 

[Crayon]

Oh look . they put the fucking letters on the face buttons the right way.

I see some of you guys are talking about this thing like it's playing in the big leagues. Talking about software support n shit.

This is a nice little novelty for those of us above a certain age hehe. It will probably get handfuls of carts based on long since successful (and patched, static) indie games. It will be tons of fun to anticipate releases, pre order them because they might actually run out, flip thru the manuals and slam the cart in as soon as the shrink wrap comes off.

I anticipate every cart I buy for this will be some old news I already played and enjoyed. I'd love to have a fez cartridge, tho. This is a great idea. An honest to goodness toy for the nostalgic enthusiast.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

I see some of you guys are talking about this thing like it's playing in the big leagues. Talking about software support n shit.

Fallout 4 and FF7 Remastered are coming to Retro VGS.

Spoiler

 

[Maxwell House]

This is such a terrible idea. It has literally 0% chance of working out. In fact, it will be dead in the water within a year of it's official launch, if it even gets there.

Why would any developer develop a game for such a limited system when they can create a better game, more easily and for less money on basically all the other systems already out there? Why would anyone develop on this obsolete piece of crap?

 

[Leynos]

Fallout 4 and FF7 Remastered are coming to Retro VGS.

Spoiler

I can't wait for Oculus Rift support. Got a sneak preview - don't tell anyone.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

This is such a terrible idea. It has literally 0% chance of working out. In fact, it will be dead in the water within a year of it's official launch, if it even gets there.

Why would any developer develop a game for such a limited system when they can create a better game, more easily and for less money on basically all the other systems already out there? Why would anyone develop on this obsolete piece of crap?

Yeah. I think it's cool in theory. But, like you said, no one is going to makes games for this. Companies can make 16-bit games right now if they wanted. They don't, and adding higher production costs and a smaller user base isn't going to inspire them to.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

They are even coming out with a CD add-on attachment! So awesome and RETRO!

Spoiler

jk

 

[wonzo]

never thought i'd say this but this is honestly dumber than the ouya

 

[NoFaceNico]

They are even coming out with a CD add-on attachment! So awesome and RETRO!

Spoiler

jk

It almost happened. According to a podcast I heard, he has the rights to all of the molds, but some of the molds for the CD were missing, so it can't be done.

This is such a terrible idea. It has literally 0% chance of working out. In fact, it will be dead in the water within a year of it's official launch, if it even gets there.

Why would any developer develop a game for such a limited system when they can create a better game, more easily and for less money on basically all the other systems already out there? Why would anyone develop on this obsolete piece of crap?

One thing I haven't heard anyone mention- do you think piracy will be an issue? If the community can crack a DS/PSP/Vita I'm pretty sure they can pull this off and those games might be vulnerable if they're "just an SD card in a cartridge"


ps: just noticed the GAF logo. wowza

 

[Lafazar]

One thing I haven't heard anyone mention- do you think piracy will be an issue? If the community can crack a DS/PSP/Vita I'm pretty sure they can pull this off and those games might be vulnerable if they're "just an SD card in a cartridge"

No one will even bother to pirate the games on this unless they are exclusives, and I predict there are not going to be a lot of those. Steam and digital console releases make just so much more financial sense for indie developers.

 

[Jaeger]

All of this talk about failing and dead in the water... Do some of you guys actually think they are trying to compete with the PS4s and XBOX Ones?

 

[ultrazilla]

Honestly I wish a lot of modern games wouldn't have patching capabilities. It is beneficial but too often it is used as a fall back. Major releases were better made back then than they are now.

My mom that recently bought an Xbox One learned this the hard way. She's on a limited wifi data plan and the updates to the system and games killed her plan for the month.

 

[ultrazilla]

...because they manufactured too many A small developer could just manufacture 25 copies of their game if they were really worried about eating inventory, or if the game is good enough sell it through the Retro VGS store, where I'm sure they'll only manufacture games as needed.

Spot on. They Retro VGS people have already said they're giving the developers total control on the amounts of carts they want ordered/produced. So there's no mass producing a million carts thinking they'll sell.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

All of this talk about failing and dead in the water... Do some of you guys actually think they are trying to compete with the PS4s and XBOX Ones?

It doesn't matter what they're trying to compete with. If the games can't be profitable because of the microscopic install base, then it isn't going to get new games.

It's going to be a hard sell from the get go because of the fact all the games will come to devices everyone already owns, because of said small install base making it impossible to profit from.

 

[ultrazilla]

All of this talk about failing and dead in the water... Do some of you guys actually think they are trying to compete with the PS4s and XBOX Ones?

Based on some of the highly intelligent responses.....yes, yes I do.

What many people are "not getting" is that this isn't a group of people thinking they're going to make mad money on the system or it being anywhere near
as popular as the latest home consoles. They're making a system that harkens back to the golden era of gaming where you bought a system and cartridges and
played the hell out of them without worrying about them being broken or needing internet connections to work. They've been pretty clear about this.

I highly doubt ANY DEVELOPER will look at this system as a viable way to make a living on soley. Again, that's not the point.

 

[Theonik]

It doesn't matter what they're trying to compete with. If the games can't be profitable because of the microscopic install base, then it isn't going to get new games.

It's going to be a hard sell from the get go because of the fact all the games will come to devices everyone already owns, because of said small install base making it impossible to profit from.

There is going to be a small audience that this machine appeals to. But the problem is the format they are choosing to appeal to these people (physical copies on carts) pose significant hurdles to ensuring that games released in such a niche platform are profitable. DD eliminates that risk but at the same time it removes the appeal of this device to the niche it's aiming at. There will still be games for it though. Maybe. I don't find it as appealing to develop for as other dead platforms who appeal to their hobby community through 'this is cool' or their history.

 

[bengraven]

As long as the cartridges aren't too expensive I might be in, but this is probably a rich man's game.

 

[Dreamwriter]

As long as the cartridges aren't too expensive I might be in, but this is probably a rich man's game.

They have said that the cartridges are going to range from $20 to $40 or $50, with the higher end being well known licensed titles. There are going to be around 20 launch titles as part of the Kickstarter (you'll be able to choose which games you want as part of your pledge), with more games in development that'll be out by the time the system actually launches.

The manufacturing cost for the carts is supposed to be around $8 to $10 including plastic case and instructions, with minimum orders of like 25, so it's not a horrible risk for the developer - $250 and you've got 25 carts you can sell.

 

[Jaeger]

It doesn't matter what they're trying to compete with. If the games can't be profitable because of the microscopic install base, then it isn't going to get new games.

It's going to be a hard sell from the get go because of the fact all the games will come to devices everyone already owns, because of said small install base making it impossible to profit from.

I don't even think you are grasping the situation, or what I even brought up. You specifically mention a "microscopic install base" but what if a microscopic install base is their goal? How is that failure? They aren't competing with big business.

 

[NoFaceNico]

It doesn't matter what they're trying to compete with. If the games can't be profitable because of the microscopic install base, then it isn't going to get new games.

It's going to be a hard sell from the get go because of the fact all the games will come to devices everyone already owns, because of said small install base making it impossible to profit from.

I don't even think you are grasping the situation, or what I even brought up. You specifically mention a "microscopic install base" but what if a microscopic install base is their goal? How is that failure? They aren't competing with big business.

Let's work this out as a logic problem.

From Jaeger:

If (A) the games can't be profitable because of the microscopic install base, then (B) it isn't going to get new games.

A= microscopic install base makes it unprofitable
B= it isn't going to get new games

From Hero_of_the_Day:

what if a microscopic install base is their goal?

Well then, to answer your question using simple if A then B logic, that means this console isn't going to get new games with a microscopic install base. I feel a console has died when it doesn't get new games, that's where it might fail.



And yes, we know they're not going after the big three, that's a given. When people are talking about this console failing they're describing the multiple ways this idea can sink either before or after it goes into production [if it makes it that far]. There are examples out there. Take this one, it was a kickstarter for a $69 iPhone 4 controller. Not a game console, just a controller. What happened? They ordered most of the parts, then figured out their logistics weren't going to work, cancelled the project and now have to deal with trying to give refunds.

There are multiple ways that this project can fail. I'll still be surprised if this can make its Kickstarter goal. I know there are some of you out there that are passionate about wanting to collect for a neo-90's game console. I just don't think it'll be enough to reach the Kickstarter goal. But that's just me and how I read the market.

 

[BGBW]

Good to see if has the
   X
Y    A
   B
button configuration just as God intended.

 

[Jaeger]

Let's work this out as a logic problem.

This is all under the assumption that they are going to lose money with a small install base, which is your problem. If they are working from the very beginning with a small goal in mind and that's what they achieve, then they wouldn't be failing and thus can be a success. My ultimate point being we don't really know what they desired numbers are, or how many units they need to sell to make profit. Just a whole heap of assumptions here.

 

[driver116]

I think the mail order style of buying games will be where the profit is. Every game loaded/labels printed to order.

 

[Dreamwriter]

This is all under the assumption that they are going to lose money with a small install base, which is your problem. If they are working from the very beginning with a small goal in mind and that's what they achieve, then they wouldn't be failing and thus can be a success. My ultimate point being we don't really know what they desired numbers are, or how many units they need to sell to make profit. Just a whole heap of assumptions here.

Actually, we do kinda sorta know some info, if you've listened to the podcast interviews. They suggested the Kickstarter could sell as few as 5000 or as many as 50,000. I wouldn't think 5000 units would be all that hard at all to sell (more systems will of course mean more potential games).

Oh, and I'd bet most people are going to pledge to get a few games in addition to the packin (personally I view a new console worth buying if I can start with three games I want to play). Developers outside that original set of 20 games will be able to see not only how many systems sell, but exactly how many of those Kickstarted games sell as well, and will be able to use that to determine if it's worth some extra time making a Retro VGS port of their game (note, I'm not assuming we'll see many exclusive titles, but if it's fairly easy/cheap to port a special edition to the Retro VGS, then I think many developers would do so just to see their game on a cartridge).

 

[Morfeo]

If this let me buy a cartridge of Shovel Knight, I am all for it. Where do I sign up?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

If this let me buy a cartridge of Shovel Knight, I am all for it. Where do I sign up?

Alright. I need this.

 

[Morfeo]

Alright. I need this.

LOL! I love how you just spent the whole thread arguing the small market for this, but then turn around with such ease when thinking about the awesomeness we can get out of it

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

If this let me buy a cartridge of Shovel Knight, I am all for it. Where do I sign up?

Shovel Knight would be a great launch title.

 

[A Black Falcon]

It almost happened. According to a podcast I heard, he has the rights to all of the molds, but some of the molds for the CD were missing, so it can't be done.

That's too bad, really... I don't know how useful a disc drive would be for something like this, you can fit a lot on a flash chip now of course (presuming they go with flash and not masked roms?), but still, it'd have been interesting.

They need to tweak their distribution model. Here's a simple suggestion:

1) Enable online connectivity and distribute games with this.
2) Patch games via online as and when required.
3) Release Master Cartridge with final code fixes at a premium.

The Master Cartridge would be the collectors item, with a printed manual, artbook, illustrations or whatever. Moreover, it still remains that the cartidge itself is what this system is about.

If you want digital-download games, you can do that on literally any platform on the market today. This is not for that. You're missing the point...

 

[j^aws]

...
If you want digital-download games, you can do that on literally any platform on the market today. This is not for that. You're missing the point...

C'mon dude, how hard is it to read what I posted - the point is still about the cartridges: "Moreover, it still remains that the cartidge itself is what this system is about."

 

[bmcphail2008]

Shovel Knight would be a great launch title.

People keep saying this, but despite the fact that Shovel Knight looks like a classic platformer, it's a huge (in regard to the actual volume of code) game that is very much based on current technology and game engines. Unless this thing has a way to run a fairly modern PC core, it's very unlikely that Shovel Knight is getting a port to this platform. That likely goes for most other classic style modern games. I believe most of what is going to be available is the same niche homebrew stuff that is already available on the real classic platforms making this a totally redundant and worthless platform for most gamers.

 

[Dreamwriter]

People keep saying this, but despite the fact that Shovel Knight looks like a classic platformer, it's a huge (in regard to the actual volume of code) game that is very much based on current technology and game engines. Unless this thing has a way to run a fairly modern PC core, it's very unlikely that Shovel Knight is getting a port to this platform. That likely goes for most other classic style modern games. I believe most of what is going to be available is the same niche homebrew stuff that is already available on the real classic platforms making this a totally redundant and worthless platform for most gamers.

As far as I know Shovel Knight used its own C++ engine with DirectX/Open GL for graphics (depending on platform). Seems to me that'd be pretty simple to port - the Retro VGS is powered by a fairly modern Arm CPU coupled with an FPGA, all you need to do is make the FPGA output simple tile-based graphics. Heck, they've even talked about trying to get Unity's 2D system working with it, so Unity developers could make games; Shovel Knight would be a lot more simple than that.

 

[Cynn]

Good to see if has the
   X
Y    A
   B
button configuration just as God intended.

God has Dyslexia?

 

[Jaeger]

People keep saying this, but despite the fact that Shovel Knight looks like a classic platformer, it's a huge (in regard to the actual volume of code) game that is very much based on current technology and game engines. Unless this thing has a way to run a fairly modern PC core, it's very unlikely that Shovel Knight is getting a port to this platform. That likely goes for most other classic style modern games. I believe most of what is going to be available is the same niche homebrew stuff that is already available on the real classic platforms making this a totally redundant and worthless platform for most gamers.

I'm sure the game can be ported with no major losses to this platform. by no means is Shovel Knight gonna cause anyone trouble on that front.

 

[outunderthestars]

Have they said when the KS campaign will launch?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Have they said when the KS campaign will launch?

They're currently aiming for July or August.

 

[mrpeabody]

As a developer, why would you port to a system where you have to manufacture and ship physical carts?

As a consumer, why would you buy a Retro VGS when the same games on Steam or console will look better and cost less?

As a potential Kickstarter backer, you have to ask, does this team have the manufacturing experience to put out a high-quality product?

 

[Jaeger]

As a developer, why would you port to a system where you have to manufacture and ship physical carts?

Because it's fun. And if a profit can be made too, what's the issue.

As a consumer, why would you buy a Retro VGS when the same games on Steam or console will look better and cost less?

I can only speak for myself, but I am not a fan of DD as a whole. I love carts and CDs and cases. And if something ever went wrong with my hardware or account linked to the digital, I would not be assed out with a physical copy.

As a potential Kickstarter backer, you have to ask, does this team have the manufacturing experience to put out a high-quality product?

I'm sure anyone interested in backing will have that thought, already.

 

[NoFaceNico]

As a developer, why would you port to a system where you have to manufacture and ship physical carts?

Well, judging by some of the responses here- buying inventory to sell to a niche market with a small install base = profit, since apparently this retro bubble is a magical economic force.

As a consumer, why would you buy a Retro VGS when the same games on Steam or console will look better and cost less?

Because you're a nut. More specifically because you want a device with all the looks of the Jaguar and none of the homebrew scene from the Jaguar community. Also, see retro magic described above.

As a potential Kickstarter backer, you have to ask, does this team have the manufacturing experience to put out a high-quality product?

Simple answer- No.

The controller they bought the rights to has a reputation for being one of the worst on the market, which should tell you their screening process isn't the best. Don't listen to me, read Amazon reviews. And as it's been mentioned earlier, there's no internet connectivity so forget about updates or patches. Any bugs you find in the system or games are yours to keep. Even the Retron 5 has firmware updates.