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[Hazaro]

Catching up on this thread, but overwatch in general is not nearly as strong in XCOM 2 when most missions have timers associated with them. You have to gain ground most of the time and OW is more of an ambush technique (OW shots out of ambush have no penalty) or way to restrict enemy movements in combat than something you rely on for killing aliens without reprisal.

FUCK. FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK. I got super hyped watching that customization featurette yesterday and you had to go and shut it all down. Fucking timers? Goddamn it. I hate timed, fail state missions. And most of the game has them? Welp. Sucks to be me. Will wait for mods to get rid of that horseshit. Sorry if I want to play the game at my own pace and not have to be stressed out by a ticking down timer pushing every single level. I am so super annoyed right now.

EDIT: Oh, so I'm not alone here and this has been covered. Still, this is like somebody offering me shiny new car and then handing me a Prius that will stop driving after 23 minutes of continuous operation.

Overwatch is strong still. Scouts are incredibly useful to use full overwatch traps (overwatch into a full turn) or simply avoid aliens until halfway into the map. You don't have to tiptoe every mission now at the start, it's a godsend for pacing.

And it really shouldn't be a problem for a large majority of people (timer). If it is, should be one of those day 1-3 mods.

I know port-begging is punishable by death here... but goddamned I just have to say aloud that this one stings. I'm only occasionally jealous of PC. This here though is straight, uncut envy.

Too bad I don't have the 2016 PC thread up to link.
Either way it's gotta be coming eventually.

 

[ashecitism]

GB QL with devs: http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/quick-look-ex-xcom-2-with-garth-deangelis-and-mark/2300-10938/

 

[Shake Appeal]

Just to be clear, the missions aren't "timed," and you can take as long as you want. But many (not all) missions do have a set number of turns before failure. From what I've seen, the number of turns is pretty lenient in most cases. But you can spend an hour taking one turn if you want.

 

[Nordicus]

From what I've seen, the number of turns is pretty lenient in most cases.

Yeah, that seems to be the case. These are kinda on same level as the generic bomb defusal levels in XCOM EU, but you're given the max turns at once. Not really concerned

 

[loganclaws]

Just to be clear, the missions aren't "timed," and you can take as long as you want. But many (not all) missions do have a set number of turns before failure. From what I've seen, the number of turns is pretty lenient in most cases. But you can spend an hour taking one turn if you want.

People are referring to a limited number of turns when they say timed. The game is turn based after all.

 

[Stoze]

Just to be clear, the missions aren't "timed," and you can take as long as you want. But many (not all) missions do have a set number of turns before failure. From what I've seen, the number of turns is pretty lenient in most cases. But you can spend an hour taking one turn if you want.

Yep. Also it's often just one part of the mission, albeit the main part. For example, they may give you 8 turns to go to an objective, but after that objective is done you may have to eliminate all the aliens remaining or make it back to your ship, both of which you have unlimited turns for.

I know people hate timers or turn counters, but it is such a loose restriction here. I think it's more about preventing you from slowly moving around in a boring overwatch conga line than it is about adding stress or tension, but it does do both.

 

[callsignkrogan]

ugh i hate timed/turn timed missions. Definitely a mod I am going to look for when the game releases.

 

[Shepard]

Pulled the trigger and preordered the deluxe version. Looks great.

 

[King Tubby]

I really doubt the turn limit is going to be as huge a problem as a lot of people here think. XCOM 2 is balanced around being a lot more mobile and aggressive. In XCOM: EU those missions were so challenging/punishing because they went against the optimal strategy in that game, which was super defensive and patient.

 

[inm8num2]

XCOM 2 gameplay demo with Firaxis Games (PC Gamer)

 

[SRG01]

I love timed missions. It prevents me from being an absolute turtle and forces me to think on the fly

 

[Poodlestrike]

I don't like timed missions in the sense of having... like... an ACTUAL TIMER, but a set number of turns is no problem at all. Forces me to play outside of my comfort zone a little, but I still have plenty of time to think.

I suspect that people who turn off timers or dramatically increase them are going to be kvetching about difficulty after launch.

 

[epmode]

I feel like the people hoping to mod out the turn limit are only doing a disservice to themselves. From what I've seen of the preview, it really helps to take you out of the turtling comfort zone and the missions become a lot more exciting. The limits are fairly generous too.

I'd suggest trying the game as designed for a bit.

 

[Erheller]

I don't really get the hate for mission objectives that have to be completed within a certain number of turns.

1) The number of turns for most objectives seems to be pretty lenient. There's even a video (I think it was one of Beagle's early videos) where he didn't realize there was a turn limit until he had 3 turns left (he started with 8) to hack the objective, and still made it out unscathed even though he had barely moved from his spawn before that point.

2) You seem to get several tools to help you with the timed objectives. Specialists can hack most objectives if they have LOS on the objective. Concealment can help you get to the objective very quickly, since you won't activate enemies immediately.

3) It should make the game a lot more engaging. The turn limits make people play more riskily and take more chances, which should (in my opinion) make the game a lot more fun. EU was pretty boring at times: activate a pod, retreat and overwatch trap, repeat. EW added Meld to try to force the player to be more proactive, but it was just a band-aid and didn't really solve much. Mission turn limits and concealment seem to make the game a lot more dynamic and fun to play.

And as other people have said, the "timers" refer to having to complete an objective within a certain number of turns, not an actual stopwatch counting down every turn. You can leave the game on overnight and still be okay.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I feel like the people hoping to mod out the turn limit are only doing a disservice to themselves. From what I've seen of the preview, it really helps to take you out of the turtling comfort zone and the missions become a lot more exciting. The limits are fairly generous too.

I'd suggest trying the game as designed for a bit.

It's fine I'll just savescum harder than I normally do anyway.

 

[SRG01]

I feel like the people hoping to mod out the turn limit are only doing a disservice to themselves. From what I've seen of the preview, it really helps to take you out of the turtling comfort zone and the missions become a lot more exciting. The limits are fairly generous too.

I'd suggest trying the game as designed for a bit.

One thing I noticed about a lot of the previews is that a lot of the players are still very cautious... probably from old habits in EU/EW or even Long War.

It's fine I'll just savescum harder than I normally do anyway.

I'm guilty of save scumming too.

Surprisingly enough, the only mission that I didn't save scum was in EW

Spoiler

during the Newfoundland mission

 

[Dennis]

Everyone savescums.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Everyone savescums.

I would go as far as to say it's a core part of the xcom experience. Playing the original without it is masochistic. So many random bullshit wipes.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I really doubt the turn limit is going to be as huge a problem as a lot of people here think. XCOM 2 is balanced around being a lot more mobile and aggressive. In XCOM: EU those missions were so challenging/punishing because they went against the optimal strategy in that game, which was super defensive and patient.

If the turn limit isn't a huge problem then there is no reason to have a turn limit in the first place. I hate turn limits in a game of this nature. If I want to spend 50 turns doing something seemingly trivial then so be it.

Oh and I don't savescum, removes the point of playing hardcore modes at all. Makes Long War a particularly brutal experience for those without patience though, lol.

 

[Pikelet]

I would go as far as to say it's a core part of the xcom experience. Playing the original without it is masochistic. So many random bullshit wipes.

I disagree completely. Savescumming robs the game of it's drama.

All tension evaporates when any mistake can be undone. I don't even play on a particularly hard difficulty, so it's not a masochism thing.

I plan to run through Xcom 2 on iron man every single time.

 

[Dennis]

I disagree completely. Savescumming robs the game of it's drama.

All tension evaporates when any mistake can be undone. I don't even play on a particularly hard difficulty, so it's not a masochism thing.

I plan to run through Xcom 2 on iron man every single time.

Savescumming is the only thing preventing me from putting my fist through the screen.

But I could probably be shamed into playing Ironman.

 

[Sou Da]

Everyone savescums.

Only the type of Cowards who use magic in Dark Souls savescum. A real commander takes his losses.

 

[Pikelet]

Savescumming is the only thing preventing me from putting my fist through the screen.

But I could probably be shamed into playing Ironman.

To each his own, but I think you might be surprised by how much you could lose in Xcom EW and still beat the campaign.

Sure, I sometimes lose my best sniper to a bullshit crit from across the map, but I also get those moments where I pull off a daring revive by the skin of my teeth.

Higher highs and lower lows.

 

[Sou Da]

To each his own, but I think you might be surprised by how much you could lose in Xcom EW and still beat the campaign.

Sure, I sometimes lose my best sniper to a bullshit crit from across the map, but I also get those moments where I pull off a daring revive by the skin of my teeth.

Higher highs and lower lows.

Exactly, Legit X-Com is just like edging.

 

[Akronis]

Exactly, Legit X-Com is just like edging.

jesus you people are hardcore.

 

[FiraB]

Everyone savescums.

I just finished an impossible ironman...

...with damage roulette, new economy, not created equally, hidden potential, red fog, absolute critical, results driven, high stake, diminishing returns, more than human, war weariness, e-115, total loss, alternative sources, training roulette, itchy trigger tentacle, double damage and double enemy hp.

Not every commander is built equal, some of us just like sending people to die

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I disagree completely. Savescumming robs the game of it's drama.

All tension evaporates when any mistake can be undone. I don't even play on a particularly hard difficulty, so it's not a masochism thing.

I plan to run through Xcom 2 on iron man every single time.

All fun evaporates when there's some moronic line-of-sight glitch where a floater is suppressing you outside of cover but your soldiers can't see him back for no reason, or when the game decides that you only have a 35% chance to hit an enemy that's point blank to your soldier. The pod system free moves into cover is so outrageously shit it was nearly enough to make me quit on multiple occasions. *walks 1 step forward to engage an enemy unit, suddenly a new pod is triggered and five million enemies who were nowhere near you pour out into cover in front of you*.

Being able to reload when bullshit occurs keeps me sane.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Everyone savescums.

the dark secret we all share

 

[Poodlestrike]

Everyone savescums.

I'm all in on that Bronzeman. Mission restarts. Makes me think twice over trying to get perfect results, but lets me recover from disastrous misclicks and crazy bouts of terrible luck.

 

[BigTnaples]

The fuck is savescumming?

 

[Poodlestrike]

The fuck is savescumming?

Reloading older saves when something bad happens.

 

[StrategyFan]

designing rules for when you should or shouldn't reload a save is part of the experience

you basically have to spend several playthroughs figuring out how to balance things for yourself, and then you start playing for real

 

[BigTnaples]

Reloading older saves when something bad happens.

Oh. Yeah, I do that often.



Though I think against my better judgment I will play XCOM 2 on Ironman. I want to feel he loss like PT makes me feel fear.

 

[Evolved1]

I savescum, but there are rules. Only one rolling save. Once battle begins a single save is created that I continually overwrite. I don't save every move, but at points where I feel confident in my position and don't want to do it all over again, getting back to that point. Basically I save before I'm about to take a calculated risk.

My main rule is to only reload a save if the game pulls some bullshit. I will let soldiers die, but only if it was my bad, and not bullshit.

I can't help but save if I land a shot against the odds, just can't help myself, but I won't load a save if I miss that low percentage shot. Even if it costs me a veteran. Savescum, but with rules. Basically, don't waste my time retreding monotonous incremental moves, and don't pull bullshit. Getting the better of me isn't bullshit. Bullshit is bullshit. Game can get deep in it at times.

 

[Metroidvania]

The pod system free moves into cover is so outrageously shit it was nearly enough to make me quit on multiple occasions.

This is the shit that leads to me reloading, if anything.

It's my only real 'complaint' of what I've seen of XCOM2, that Firaxis kept this in.

The devs realized that the best 'strat' to counter this is to absolutely inch forward, hence the time limit and such, but even with the improvements via stealth and the overwatch/ambush scenario, as well as stuff like reloading not taking up your whole turn, etc...but it's still hugely powerful that aliens get that free movement/action if it's on your turn with your limited '2 action' system.

 

[Dennis]

I can't believe they are about to ruin the game with timelimits?

Who asked for that?

That is right, exactly no one.

 

[Atraveller]

I like to comb the map for aliens first before going for the objectives, unless it's civilian protection or VIP extraction. I'll see how XCOM2 plays before deciding whether to mod it out.

 

[Falk]

This is the shit that leads to me reloading, if anything.

It's my only real 'complaint' of what I've seen of XCOM2, that Firaxis kept this in.

Mod it out, play a few campaigns, and laugh at how utterly worthless the aliens are without the free move.

 

[Pikelet]

I can't believe they are about to ruin the game with timelimits?

Who asked for that?

That is right, exactly no one.

Reactions to it that I have read have been overwhelmingly positive. The recent Daft Souls podcast went through this in detail and had me convinced me that it adds a lot to the game.

The idea is that it solves a lot of design issues from the previous game e.g. Having the most boring way to play be the most effective way. Along with the randomised level layouts, it has the potential to make the battles far more dynamic.

As much as I loved Xcom EU, a significant part of the tactics game involved edging forward in a train of overwatched soldiers. It could get extremely formulaic. A time pressure element makes this style of conservative play not viable.

 

[Falk]

Everything from bomb defusal to Slingshot's train mission had timers in vanilla XCOM:EU.

EW had Deluge, and on top of that added meld as a soft-timer for almost all other encounters. You either took risk, or you lived with very little meld.

I don't understand how "OH MY GOD TIMERS#@($@#$" is cropping up now.

 

[Gator86]

All fun evaporates when there's some moronic line-of-sight glitch where a floater is suppressing you outside of cover but your soldiers can't see him back for no reason, or when the game decides that you only have a 35% chance to hit an enemy that's point blank to your soldier. The pod system free moves into cover is so outrageously shit it was nearly enough to make me quit on multiple occasions. *walks 1 step forward to engage an enemy unit, suddenly a new pod is triggered and five million enemies who were nowhere near you pour out into cover in front of you*.

Being able to reload when bullshit occurs keeps me sane.

Fucking preach. All that nonsense drove me insane in the original game. In particular, the enemy spawns just seem like fundamentally shit game design. Like people said, the turn limit seems designed to counter the turtling in response to this. So, bad gameplay design fixed by design choice tons of people loathe. Sounds legit. Watching the previews made me more than happy to wait on this for a long while.

 

[Vex_]

What's this I'm hearing about customization? Also what's this about timers?

 

[Sober]

This is the shit that leads to me reloading, if anything.

It's my only real 'complaint' of what I've seen of XCOM2, that Firaxis kept this in.

The devs realized that the best 'strat' to counter this is to absolutely inch forward, hence the time limit and such, but even with the improvements via stealth and the overwatch/ambush scenario, as well as stuff like reloading not taking up your whole turn, etc...but it's still hugely powerful that aliens get that free movement/action if it's on your turn with your limited '2 action' system.

Firaxis XCOM has a much larger emphasis on cover and maneuvering, which is exactly why we have pods and we have free scramble for aliens. Also if you are dashing into the open out of concealment or when aliens know you're there then you're just asking for trouble. This isn't like in OG X-Com where you take shots across the map or whatever for 12% because it's just a lonely sectoid or something walking around a field.

I guess if you want time units and lone roaming aliens you have to hunt down or get shot at from the fog of war there's X-Com'94 and friends, Xenonauts, or wait for someone to mod in TUs and Gollup-Com mechanics back into the game.

 

[Uriah]

Everything from bomb defusal to Slingshot's train mission had timers in vanilla XCOM:EU.

EW had Deluge, and on top of that added meld as a soft-timer for almost all other encounters. You either took risk, or you lived with very little meld.

I don't understand how "OH MY GOD TIMERS#@($@#$" is cropping up now.

I'm actually looking forward to time limits but I fucking hated that slingshot train mission.

 

[Falk]

No joke though, Xenonauts is a good time, flaws and all.

But I keep wishing there was a hybrid that had its strategic layer and XCOM's cover mechanics.

I'm actually looking forward to time limits but I fucking hated that slingshot train mission.

Couldn't stand the battleship myself. It wasn't even hard, just tedious and predictable (which adds to the tedium)

I also held that opinion for alien base assault, base defense and the final mission, so eh, I just have something against long, scripted missions, I guess.

 

[Pikelet]

All fun evaporates when there's some moronic line-of-sight glitch where a floater is suppressing you outside of cover but your soldiers can't see him back for no reason, or when the game decides that you only have a 35% chance to hit an enemy that's point blank to your soldier. The pod system free moves into cover is so outrageously shit it was nearly enough to make me quit on multiple occasions. *walks 1 step forward to engage an enemy unit, suddenly a new pod is triggered and five million enemies who were nowhere near you pour out into cover in front of you*.

Being able to reload when bullshit occurs keeps me sane.

I can't argue with your experience, but these bugs were infrequent enough for me that I was comfortable picking ironman every time.

The pod issue you bring up can be mitigated significantly by ordering your units in a sequence such that the person that is most likely to trigger enemy spawns goes first. That way even with an unlucky spawn, the rest of the squad has a move to react.

Even in cases where the pod spawn is unavoidable, I'm pretty OK with things very occasionally being fucked up and forcing you to change up.

 

[WanderingWind]

Fucking preach. All that nonsense drove me insane in the original game. In particular, the enemy spawns just seem like fundamentally shit game design. Like people said, the turn limit seems designed to counter the turtling in response to this. So, bad gameplay design fixed by design choice tons of people loathe. Sounds legit. Watching the previews made me more than happy to wait on this for a long while.

Yup. And all the people talking about "Firaxis knows best" and "balance" must be speaking of a different X-Com than I'm familiar with. Fun, difficult, challenging are all words I would describe X-Com. But balanced? Lol. No. It may have gotten there through a ton of fixes, patches and expansions, but balance was nowhere near the galaxy X-Com resides in upon its release. It's lovable despite that - hence people spending all sorts of time talking about "bullshit" "wipes" and savescumming.

It's great that some have faith that timed missions will be generous. People are allowed their optimism. Firaxis is awesome for bringing X-Com back. I don't want it to come across like I'm shitting on the company or the game. As a PC-first gamer, they're one of my favs.

Personally, I have yet to enjoy a single game - a single game - where time limits or turn limits are a major factor. I don't expect everybody else to agree with what is ultimately a personal decision, but frankly, nothing short of the limits being entirely inconsequential is going to make me change my mind on it. I hate them, always have and always will. I was day 1'ing this, but now I'll definitely be waiting for some let's plays that show how frequent they are. If they're a huge part of the game, it's hard pass for me until mods come out.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Everyone savescums.

Not I

 

[FUME5]

Possibly my most anticipated game of 2016.

Beat Unknown and Within on Ironman, not too sure if I'll go for that straight of the bat with this one.

Eh, who am I kidding.

 

[ant_]

This game looks amazing. Are the system specs hard to reach?