-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
New XCOM 2 previews/hands-ons
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
KyanMehwulfe
Member
i ragequit savescum. it's different cuz it's i'm not responsible for my actions in those moments.
plus sometimes it's just a ragequit and Kanye 'All Day' West is still dead when I reload =(
plus sometimes it's just a ragequit and Kanye 'All Day' West is still dead when I reload =(
My savescumming would be cut in by half if the cursor would stop freaking out between heights, enemies running into enemies running into enemies (I just played a game on the gas station map where one muton pack activated 3 others - and all I had was lasers and carapace) and the los issues.
I could probably deal with the occasional alien critting my guy in full cover to death from across the map and missing the 90% shot that would kill the berserker.
I could probably deal with the occasional alien critting my guy in full cover to death from across the map and missing the 90% shot that would kill the berserker.
I'm usually really, really against turn limits and time limits but I'm actually excited to see them here. XCOM is as a strategy game a very intensive experience for, with lots of empathy going for my soldiers and wanting to keep them alive. The fact you have a ticking clock and you need to risk them and put them out there fast will probably make the game just more entertaining for me. We'll see.
If turn limits end up "ruining" the game, I'll eat crow, but man, watching people actually play the game, it makes all the sense in the world.
You usually have something like 9 turns to reach an objective that is behind 4 or 5 enemies (at least in the beggining). And you get to position yourself beforehand and can take an entire pod out just by overwatching as they scamper. The challenge in those missions are usually the reinforcement after the limit, when you have to run back with a VIP in tow or something.
They didn't saw EU, thought "oh, people turtle too much, let's just throw some timers in there". That was Meld and EW. This game is built on the assumption that it is a faster, less turtle-y game. The maps reflect this, the objectives reflect this, the number of pods and enemies on pods reflect this, the fact that you are able to take more shots before dying and thus can take more risks reflect this, etc etc.
The might end up sucking, but by watching people playing, enough things have changed to accompany their newfound love for timed missions. It seems unfair how people are saying as if they just tackled it on after everything.
You usually have something like 9 turns to reach an objective that is behind 4 or 5 enemies (at least in the beggining). And you get to position yourself beforehand and can take an entire pod out just by overwatching as they scamper. The challenge in those missions are usually the reinforcement after the limit, when you have to run back with a VIP in tow or something.
They didn't saw EU, thought "oh, people turtle too much, let's just throw some timers in there". That was Meld and EW. This game is built on the assumption that it is a faster, less turtle-y game. The maps reflect this, the objectives reflect this, the number of pods and enemies on pods reflect this, the fact that you are able to take more shots before dying and thus can take more risks reflect this, etc etc.
The might end up sucking, but by watching people playing, enough things have changed to accompany their newfound love for timed missions. It seems unfair how people are saying as if they just tackled it on after everything.
Camp Freddie
Member
My view too. Timers can be overdone, and I don't like being forced to rush everything for no reason (e.g. Valkyria Chronicles), but these seem no different to the meld and bomb timers in XCOM:EU/EW.
I savescum, but with house rules.
I make one save at the mission start, and I can reload due to 'bullshit' or a complete party-wipe fuckup.
For example, if a soldier takes some stupid route during a move order, or there's an LOS glitch, or the cursor bugs out and selects the wrong height.
As someone who used to savescum a lot, the game is MUCH better if you avoid it. The game is balanced to allow a lot of fuckups and death (on normal difficulty). I think I only had 2 soldiers reach the evac point on that Newfoundland mission. There were a few times where I couldn't field a whole squad due to injury, which made the next missions much more tense.
My game taunted me by killing all the British soldiers (Camp Freddie died in his first mission), while anyone named after a historical villain would be guaranteed to reach Colonel. My final mission squad included Idi "The Cannibal" Amin, Joe "Steamroller" Stalin, Mao "Chariman" Zedong, George "Dubya" Bush and Sarah "Teaparty" Palin.
I'm playing Invisible Inc, now, which has an interesting savescum mechanic built in. You have one ironman save, but can hit a 'rewind' button a certain number of times in each mission (# based on difficulty level). It works really well to avoid bullshit without feeling like you're 'cheating'. It also allows you to use the rewind to test out something risky, or some new mechanic/skill/gadget.
Renowned Explorers also has a "undo" mechanic that I like very much. Since RE doesn't have you discovering new enemies, but shows you the entire map each battle, undoing a move because you miscalculated the distance of an attack or whatever doesn't feel like much.
You can't undo attacks, tho, only movement.
You can't undo attacks, tho, only movement.
Shake Appeal
Member
I have savescummed by quitting the program when something really ridiculous happens, but I always regret it. Ironman is the only way to play.
Slackbladder
Member
With regards to turn limits. From what I've seen of these missions it looks like yes, you have 8 turns to blowup/hack/find item but after that you have all the time in the world to kill the rest of the enemies on that map. There may be a few where the mission requires you to bug out after completing the timed turns (or mission failed) but most of the missions I've seen from Beaglerush and others has been a countdown and once succeeded you kill the rest of the enemies.
I was generally bad at time limits before which might influence my starting difficulty in XCOM 2, but I'd never cheat. I'm also hearing the game's difficulty is less frontloaded this time around so normal mode might not get so boring this time.
Regardless, I'm glad Ironman mode exists. Based on how I play other SRPGs I absolutely would restart missions and reload saves. But by checking that button I save myself from myself. It's not like I ever even lose people often anyways, and the vast majority are always in the first few months.
Regardless, I'm glad Ironman mode exists. Based on how I play other SRPGs I absolutely would restart missions and reload saves. But by checking that button I save myself from myself. It's not like I ever even lose people often anyways, and the vast majority are always in the first few months.
There's a whole class of people who need to play roguelikes or they shrivel up and die.
Darkest Dungeon out next week oh my god
XCOM2 a few weeks after that, I think I'm going to pass away
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I may be really tempted to savescum if I did not play on Irom man mode, but that's why the mode is there, so you take that temptation off your shoulders.
PeterVenkman
Member
Played exclusively ironman last time and didn't scum once. Closest I got was when the game crashes mid mission, but that was beyond my control.
XCOM is built for failure, embrace it!
I think I'd save-scum less if the game was more straightforward with WIN / LOSS parameters.
It can be intimidating navigating through a lengthy campaign for the first time when you hear reports that your game-save can be totally nuked after a couple dozen hours due to poor base management.
That's a lot of personal time down the drain for mistakes that could be totally unforeseen. And as an adult with limited game time, punitive measures that break game saves makes Ironman a non-starter for me personally.
All that said, I am considering Ironman for my first spin with XCOM 2. If for nothing else than I feel like I've got the gameplay systems and dynamics down pretty well at this point. I can certainly see how it makes the game more edge of your seat exciting.
It can be intimidating navigating through a lengthy campaign for the first time when you hear reports that your game-save can be totally nuked after a couple dozen hours due to poor base management.
That's a lot of personal time down the drain for mistakes that could be totally unforeseen. And as an adult with limited game time, punitive measures that break game saves makes Ironman a non-starter for me personally.
All that said, I am considering Ironman for my first spin with XCOM 2. If for nothing else than I feel like I've got the gameplay systems and dynamics down pretty well at this point. I can certainly see how it makes the game more edge of your seat exciting.
I am your opposite. We should join forces.
KrM DeLorean
Member
This. No risk no reward. Makes getting far in the game more of an accomplishment personally.
I'm totally going to get this on release.
Except I did not finish EU. I got to the point of Psi-powers and somehow my squad got fucked, took a lil break and never came back.
I know there were some lessons to be learned on that play through but I can't remember what I did wrong, it's been too long.
Anyone want to give me some quick tips on beating EU? Mainly squad/base building tips to help me move quickly through the game. I don't remember having many issues with the tactical parts.
Except I did not finish EU. I got to the point of Psi-powers and somehow my squad got fucked, took a lil break and never came back.
I know there were some lessons to be learned on that play through but I can't remember what I did wrong, it's been too long.
Anyone want to give me some quick tips on beating EU? Mainly squad/base building tips to help me move quickly through the game. I don't remember having many issues with the tactical parts.
There's a lot of games where I don't mind permadeath, but in XCom I save scummed just to make a soldier I named after one of my friends' death actually mean something to the squad. (But I still sacrificed him)
Also, I NEEDED those A ratings. Couldn't have XCom disappointed in me.
SuperSonic1305
Member
Only filthy casuals. Probably play Fire Emblem without letting anyone die too. Disgusting!
I've beaten Sword of the Stars: The Pit, without scumming.
I fear no permadeath.
Can't wait for Darkest Dungeon myself.
MrCompletely
Member
Just catching up on the PC Gamer preview where they are discussing a Star Wars themed TC for this game, and thinking how well the Resistance vs Advent construct fits the Force Awakened storyline. They also mention the inevitability of Stormtrooper armor mods. Workshop support is enabled day 1!
Watch Beagle if you want to abuse free shots on scrambling pods in XCOM2.
Keep one person out of cover in the path of a patrol while you overwatch your team nearby and end your turn. The patrol continues on, spots your bait, enemies scramble, you break concealment and you get your free shots on overwatch on enemies out of cover. Now you have your turn again.
Gonna assume people are gonna get frustrated at enemies running away to get reinforcements.
Keep one person out of cover in the path of a patrol while you overwatch your team nearby and end your turn. The patrol continues on, spots your bait, enemies scramble, you break concealment and you get your free shots on overwatch on enemies out of cover. Now you have your turn again.
Gonna assume people are gonna get frustrated at enemies running away to get reinforcements.
XCOM2 is really focusing on replayability. Taking lessons from the original game + Civilization.
As said above, they apparently made some effort to add to replayability.
It seems to be taking a rogue-lite route of randomnizing some stuff (like the kind of ammo upgrade you get and the kind of grenade you have access to) so the ideal strategy is more contextual each playthrough.
Sweeet. I only watched the GB and GT videos, so glad to know this!
... Although it's been enough time since my last game that I want to play Enemy Within this weekend now.
Shake Appeal
Member
I know everyone's excited about total conversions and co-op and all the high-falutin' mod possibilities, but I just want to see someone do a really thorough balance pass with some tweaks that make the game a beautifully replayable perfect gem. A more dynamic Long War 2.0.
I'm warming up to the timer a little bit now that they show you where the objective is (which seems to eliminate trial and error movement), but I'm still concerned about the sheer number of enemies that can either mind control/panick you or pull you out of cover. I realise that uncertainty is core to the series, but I fear this will become overly frustrating.
Slackbladder
Member
Just got The Art of Xcom 2 book. Their designs have come a long way from Xcom 1 and it's interesting to see what influenced them.
There's a Firaxis twitch livestream soon - http://www.twitch.tv/firaxisgames
There's a Firaxis twitch livestream soon - http://www.twitch.tv/firaxisgames
Remachinate
Member
I can't help but wonder if the devs accounted for this technique when balancing the game. All the preview material focused on player-turn overwatch ambushes coming out of stealth, rather than on the enemy turn. The latter is directly more effective as the aliens spend their turn scrambling and you get another full turn after, and is probably the reason Beagle was able to snowball so hard on vanilla Legend.
As good as Long War was for expanding the depth of EU/EW's campaign, I don't think it added any real replayability. Once you understand the correct research path and base expansion, I don't think a subsequent playthrough offers much in the way of novel strategic planning or decisions. You just don't get that same sense of discovery of how to plan to react with your limited resources against an overwhelming threat after the first playthrough.
For XCOM 2 to be replayable in a way that would actually feel fresh, you'd need a mod that introduced seed-based, procedural research trees and alien progression, such that the enemies you face each time have different strengths, and you'd have to make dynamic decisions each playthrough about what research to prioritize to counteract them. For example, researching/upgrading AOE attacks would be ace if the aliens were deploying large pods of weak enemies, but useless if they deployed fewer high-armor tanky enemies. That's where real longevity of the series lies, rather than a deeper but grindy campaign that feels rote after a while.
Seems to me I'll wait and see if the game even needs that.
'94 X-Com mechanics probably will be the first big TC. Or even a straight up conversion to play like EU2012 (i.e. you aren't the resistance). Let's be honest here.
definitely try the Long War mod if you haven't. ups the difficulty and has so many Second Wave options, like one to make it shorter, but still as hard, or longer.
I think they didn't care that much, i.e., the first pod, the one that takes you out of concealment, is supposed to be free kills. Beagle is a genuinelly good player; any one of those "long war ironman impossible" players are going to have a relatively easy time on unmodded legendary; because they have a relatively easy time on unmodded EU impossible already.
They're simply good at XCom and there's no way to balance the game with this kind of player in mind without breaking it for the rest of us.
Here's how I think they approached the whole tactical game. They wanted to, somehow, make the battle actually start when you are the center of the map. On EU, you start at one corner and move to the opposite corner (meeting the last pods at roughly the center); here, they wanted everything to start at the center.
So they drop you off at a corner, like normal, but then put a timer in there and the concealement mechanic so you rush to the center and position yourself roughly how you want. Then you kill the first pod and then the phase one actually begins, which is when you have to beat the timer. After that, phase two begins, which is when you have to escape, extract or kill everything sans-timer.
Plenty of missions seems to be variations of this structure. (going just by what I watch, sorry if I'm bullshitting)
I think this plays into the whole guerrilla concept very brilliantly too. An ambush is always an effective tactic.
And it makes your squad look badass.
especially if there's 48 of them
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
A Star Gate SG1 total conversion would be nice.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Stoked for this game. Probably my first day 1 purchase in 2-3 years, at least for a singleplayer game.
I really hope there are less bugs. I played ironman the first couple playthroughs and loved that. But I started noticing crashes and small bugs were affecting me too much so I stopped.
When I played through longwar I didn't play on ironman, since that mod has several bugs and is particularly punishing at times. I mean, starting in line of sight of groups that would give you trouble with perfect positioning... ick. I tried to limit myself to 1 reload per game.
I really hope there are less bugs. I played ironman the first couple playthroughs and loved that. But I started noticing crashes and small bugs were affecting me too much so I stopped.
When I played through longwar I didn't play on ironman, since that mod has several bugs and is particularly punishing at times. I mean, starting in line of sight of groups that would give you trouble with perfect positioning... ick. I tried to limit myself to 1 reload per game.
I don't understand savescumming and never will
When three Mutons suddenly spawned right on top of my guys (literally right on top of them) and then wiped most of them out, I learned to love savescumming.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Enemies don't spawn, but they do move around the map.
They didn't really have animations for patroling around the map, they just warped during their turn iirc. At least sometimes appeared that way...
XCOM EU and EW has a huge flaw, they arent unpredictable. All pods have preset locations and once you now where they are you can overwatch the shit out them when you trigger them and if you set your team positions correctly you can reduce that pod easily, specially on lower difficulties, on higher its a trick you use to survive bigger encounters, specially the base defense.
Whatever.
One moment my guys were sitting alone in a small room. The next moment, three burly Mutons suddenly appeared out of nowhere. They took cover and BRRRRT!, most of my guys were dead and I couldn't do a thing.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Only monsters let people die in Fire Emblem.
What the hell is wrong with you.
I've been playing it in EA, it's damn solid.