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New Zelda Breath of the Wild trailer
- Thread starter Skeletos311
- Start date
Exactly. This is why most people are annoyed by the continuation and perpetuation of the trope. Zelda has been shown time and again to be a capable and interesting character, but they for whatever reason continue to use this trope in some way or another to weaken and relegate her to a position of needing to be saved by Link. It's not a necessary element to the story. You don't need Zelda to become feeble at some point in order to motivate the player to save the day. There's plenty of other reasons they can use without continually undermining the titular character. Heck most of the time it happens well into the story where we are already fully committed to saving the Kingdom and don't require any further motivation.
Because it keeps happening in every game she appears in. It wouldn't be a big issue for one game to do it, but every single one at some point reduces Zelda to a position of requiring Link to rescue her or save the kingdom because she cannot, often in a way that appears to be simply because she's a girl and the princess. Like WW. It's all the worse in that game because she's this tough and no nonsense pirate leader, even a bit tomboyish, but the second she's revealed to be the much more feminine princess Zelda now she's got to stay hidden away and let Link save the day. Sure it's great how she helps out in the final boss fight, but it's still not the best on it's own given that sequence of events, but it's even worse given the history the series and the depiction of her character throughout.
Zelda II she is in a thousand year slumber.
ALttP she's trapped in a dungeon, saved, and then captured again.
OoT she's captured the moment she reveals her true identity from the androgynous Sheik to feminine Princess Zelda
MC she's turned to stone
WW she's hidden away the moment her true identity is revealed from the tomboy Tetra to the feminine Princess Zelda
PH she's captured and turned to stone, again
ST she's turned into a ghost
TP she's captured and locked away in a tower, eventually becoming possessed as a literal puppet to Ganondorf
ALBW she's captured and locked away in a painting.
SS awakens as the very feminine Goddess reincarnated, literally traps herself in crystal
Every time, in every game she appears in there is a point where Zelda is rendered incapable either wholly, by capture or the like, or partially, like being a ghost or finding out she's a princess/goddess, and requires Link to save her or the Kingdom specifically because of something happening to her. It would be one thing if the game just had her asking you to save her Kingdom. She's a ruler, you're a hero. Good enough. No, instead in every case something specifically happens to Zelda that enfeebles her for the sole purpose of empowering Link and giving him cause to save the day.
Zelda did not hide in plain sight for 7 years, she was in hiding with Impa.
People are pointing out alternative sections in the game to show that the game does not ONLY have her as a damsel in distress. I don't know why you think a character being in danger or being kidnapped is automatically a shitty part of a story. It's shitty if thats ALL the character is good for.
But if a friend or love interest has already played a decent part in the plot, them being kidnapped or whatever is just another part of the narrative.
Hence you are all reducing her to a damsel in distress, even though there's much more to her. Like I said, she's by far the driving force of the plot in OoT for example. In what way, shape or form is she a damsel in distress for 90% of the game?
Sure she has to go into hiding, but she spends that time training to be a goddamn ninja, and then helps the hero of time.
What film is that from, its or most the exact frame especially the end bit!??
Im think Aragorn in Lord Of The Rings???
I was talking about WW for that part.
It's similar in OoT though.
In the adult part of the narrative once she dons the princess clothes she's locked in a crystal and spirited away for the big damn hero to save her while she does basically nothing.
Also for WW, 90% of my playthrough is usually after the Temple of the Gods and the return to that shitty useless dungeon. So if I mentionned that percentage that may be why.
akidnamededdy
Banned
...not really, no.
I gotta say, saying something is a "kindergarten argument" sounds itself like a kindergarten argument. Whatever that is.
If the authors give a good, internally consistent reason for something to happen in a story, why can't it be used in an argument?
Yes, Zelda gets sidelined for a chunk of the game just like always. The reasoning the story provides for this is sound, and on top of that it was the first game in the series where she actually got some real depth as a character. It was great! And her incapacitation isn't the sole driving factor behind the game's action.
The story gives a good, solid reason for her to go into hiding that makes sense. It seems like your only argument is "well they could've written it differently!" Which, while technically true, is not really a point.
Phantom Hourglass, on the other hand, has Zelda's being turned to stone as the single motivating factor behind the entire quest. Princess dun got got, you gotta save her! It's the driving force behind the story, and for that reason it sucks.
I dunno. It seems like you're more interested in shouting about tropes than really thinking about this.
Anton Sugar
Member
I highly recommend you read "We're losing all our Strong Female Characters to Trinity Syndrome" by Tasha Robinson.
Imbuing a female character with some fantastic traits and moments (in some cases, Zelda seems even *more* adept/skilled than Link in her alternate forms), only for them to ultimately be sidelined for a damsel-in-distress role (or no role/impact at all), is a terrible trope, regardless of the story justification.
Nintendo can do better than that and it's important to call them out for it, too.
Like whatever, my point is that moments of weakness are good for drama are characterisation, as well are showing the dynamic between two characters. If zelda was JUST a character who continually got kidnapped, I'd see why people had a problem with her.
But she's been vastly different in every game, she's had her own distinct personality, own role in the plot, and has shown considerable strength. Sure, she won't beat Ganon in a straight up fight, she's the character with the triforce of wisdom, her role as the reincarnation of the goddess is to guide the person with the triforce of courage, and in general she does that brilliantly.
So link solves a few puzzles and wins some fights. Zelda's feats in the 3D games always seemed more impressive to me. Even in TP where she's barely in it, her role in the plot and what she does for her people is very noble. I'm not sitting there whining about how she's stuck in the tower, I'm thinking about WHY she's stuck in that castle. She's stuck there because of how noble she is and how she cares for her people.
RampagingSoul
Member
Yeah, I've finished all the 3D Zeldas, thanks to Majora's Mask 3D so I'm set to dive into the 2D Zeldas I haven't beaten yet which is mostly all of them except the DS games and Link Between Worlds. I'll be focusing on Link's Awakening to see if I can beat it before Breath of the Wild so I can play BotW right when it comes out.
OoT - Spends a VAST majority of the story being strong and wise, she helps link all the way through, and even helps him in the end. Yes she doesn't join the final fight, so what? I'd say she played a strong enough part in the plot
WW - She isn't sidelined though, she helps in the final fight
TP - She's barely in the game, but she too, helps in the final battle
Just so you know, I agree with the article posted. I find "akshun woman" trope they put in media cringey as fuck, (I had this reservation about Horizon but when I voiced it I got shoved out of the thread I was in).
Zelda isn't that type of character. She's not there for the sake of being there. She's not put in to be a strong female character trope.
They've solidified her as the character who has the triforce of wisdom, and hence she uses her wisdom to guide and support link. Even in the final battles, her arrows are there to support Link, who embodies courage.
I dunno. Ever since I played Ocarina as a kid I've always really liked Zelda. Like, the other girls liked Disney Princesses and shit, and sure I did too (Ariel), but Zelda was my OG. She's strong, smart, helpful, independent, and always plays an important role in the story. It really doesn't bother me that ganon ends up grabbing her at the end of most of the games, it doesn't stop her character from being great, and I don't expect much from the plots of Zelda games
RampagingSoul
Member
Almost wish this year was a leap year so we got an extra day of February, am I right?
Yes, the game comes out on Wii U on March 3rd as well.
InUniverse explaination for why the damselling in WW occurs is equally valid as the one in Phantom Hourglass.
It's basically "the Author said so".
It's not an argument at all.
This shuts down any and all conversation about any criticism ever.
"Why is motion control so prevalent in Skyward Sword"
"That's how the game is, deal with it."
"It's bad that you have to return to that central dungeon in Phantom Hourglass"
"It's not bad you need to do that to move the plot along and Link has no choice so it has to be done, you shouldn't complain about it".
If you have 4mins this is the argument basically
She's damselled in nearly every game she appears in :
We're only missing FS/FSA and SSB games?
Like seriously if you don't see the pattern you haven't been looking very far.
She's fucking useless in TP, seriously you can remove her and lose nothing of the game.
brandonh83
Banned
The cutscene direction looks fantastic. Skyward Sword was almost there with it IMO but this looks solid on that front.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Dont want to create a new thread for something like this, so i will post it here.
Nintendo released the first 20 minutes of the castillian spanish version of the game and people have discovered one thing becuase of the voice clips (spoiler)
The old man
Maybe some people already knew, or some people already suspected that was the case.
Also, I cant tell, but some people in the voice acting forums think Link sounds different in the spanish version. I think its the same as in japanese, but if anyone has seen lots of videos of the japanese/english version and can tell if the voice is different or the same will help to know if Link has actually some voice or phrase in the game. Basically if they dubbed the grunts (and they did for the old man), it means Link will speak (maybe have some pharse at the end or something).
https://youtu.be/iYvGAkX8xGU
BTW, this is an interesting bit of trivia, spanish Zelda is Laura Prats, one of the actresses of Netflix's Marco Polo (she is also voice actress)
Nintendo released the first 20 minutes of the castillian spanish version of the game and people have discovered one thing becuase of the voice clips (spoiler)
The old man
even if it doesnt have the whole dialogue dubbed, does have the voice clips (grunts) changed to a spanish voice actor, and that spanish voice actor is the same as the voice of the King of Hyrule in the trailer
Also, I cant tell, but some people in the voice acting forums think Link sounds different in the spanish version. I think its the same as in japanese, but if anyone has seen lots of videos of the japanese/english version and can tell if the voice is different or the same will help to know if Link has actually some voice or phrase in the game. Basically if they dubbed the grunts (and they did for the old man), it means Link will speak (maybe have some pharse at the end or something).
https://youtu.be/iYvGAkX8xGU
BTW, this is an interesting bit of trivia, spanish Zelda is Laura Prats, one of the actresses of Netflix's Marco Polo (she is also voice actress)
Pretty much how I feel every game.
Great find!
They could have used Laura Prats as the english VA for Zelda then.
I mean clearly she's good enough as an actress to play for Netflix so that would have proven cheaper to do it this way, no?
I was thinking the same thing. I really like the shot composition.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I like Zelda.
I don't know how she's going to be in the game or not, but the design is fantastic.
Probably the best I've seen so far.
the whole regular princess you in SSB for example is a bit overdone though.
Skyward Sword wasn't so bad although I'm not that fond of the design it worked well I guess.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
It's like the Skyward Sword her is a highschool yearbook picture and this one is her at college.
RPGCrazied
Member
Weird, every time I see the Master Sword Link doesn't have a shield with him. Can one not be used with the sword? And I have yet to see the Hylian shield either. Hmmm.
Have you guys noticed that this winter fox...
Zelda january trailer: https://youtu.be/zw47_q9wbBE?t=24s
Amiibo Trailer: https://youtu.be/1CfFnLoiLqk
I guess is safe to assume that you can have other animals with you; Wolf Link is just a "skin" for foxes, dogs and other wolves.
...and Wolf Link share some animations? Basically the stretching, and even the same yawn when stretching, which you can better hear in the Switch presentation trailer and in the Amiibo trailer.
Zelda january trailer: https://youtu.be/zw47_q9wbBE?t=24s
Amiibo Trailer: https://youtu.be/1CfFnLoiLqk
I guess is safe to assume that you can have other animals with you; Wolf Link is just a "skin" for foxes, dogs and other wolves.
With the Spirit tracks being her when she's even younger you could make a case that she's growing up :lol
The theme also works well with SS's theme being the whole school aspect and how Zelda (and Link) discover the world at large and BotW being Zelda (and Link) having to survive in the world after "graduating" or something.
It works and I'll take it.
Probably one of the best thing about SS was the crafting system and how you could break/repair/improve shield with the Hylian shield being the ultimate reward for expert players as a thankyouforplaying thing near the end.
I really hope it's same here and you can actually use it...although it's been awhile since they did anything with a mirror shield...
hope they were forward thinking enough to put every single shield Link used over the years in the game.
Would be a fantastic easter egg.
Thanks Monolith Soft.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I dont think we'll be able to have foxes since we can hunt them. Maybe wolves and other dogs though.. although we might be able to hunt wolves too
Deckard Chapel
Banned
For all of you out there that want to play as Zelda - has anyone considered a "Second Quest"? Zelda games are famous for those Second Quests.
What if the Second Quest lets you play as Zelda, or at least gives you the option to?
For your health.
What if the Second Quest lets you play as Zelda, or at least gives you the option to?
For your health.
It's called "Saving time"
My point is that we know two guys, a programmer and a designer, spent a whole year making the animals behaviours. There's NO way all that work is locked behind an Amiibo figure. I hope not, anyway. We'll see.
Yep. Animation retargeting is pretty common and useful, esp in a game with lots of characters.
Also they confirmed a while ago you can have dog companions by feeding them and gaining their trust.
Still a bit disappointing that it's not available at the start but that still would be awesome.
Certainly better than a regular 2nd quest.
I'm not holding my breath for that either, we haven't had a proper 2nd quest in decades.
If you can form bonds with other animals like rando dogs out there, maybe you can do the same with wild animals.
We know you can feed dogs and stuffs so maybe if you feed them enough they can help you like dogs would (basically following you and helping you hunt)
It would ideally only work with carnivores but still would be interesting to test.
Skeletos311
Junior Member
They probably use the same rig or skeleton. They're basically joints or bones that you put inside models that deform, like characters, to animate them. You save the animations to the bones, so you can take that rig and use it for whatever you can fit it inside. They probably have a quadruped rig with all the animations for foxes, dogs, wolves, and whatever it fits.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I dont like english Zelda, but Laura Prats probably uses a spanish accent on Marco Polo (havent seen it), and its difficult if the actresses lives in Spain to get her to do a voice for the american version. They probably got her becuase of the Catalonian dubbing studio Nintendo used (same ones they used for the Professor Layton, PL vs PW and Star Fox games).
She was a voice actress before being an actress, she also does the spanish voice of Mikasa in Attack of Titan.
WiiRevolution1
Member
Its pretty obvious Zelda is playable from the beginning of the game. When Aonuma said that "she even has the same clothes as Link and the Shiekah slate like Link!" I think that pretty much confirmed it. I'll even go further and to say this is my final theory on playable characters:
In the game informer stuff it was confirmed all weapons break. People just assume this also doesn't mean the Master Sword, however I think despite the trailers tricking you into thinking otherwise, I think in the present game you never actually pick up the Master Sword. Instead this takes place 100 years after the Ocarina of Time's Link is defeated by Ganon in he Downfall Timeline. Link is either truly dead and that they (Shiekah) are calling this guy Link in hopes that he can pull the Master Sword, or it is Link and he is but one playable character.
The one thing that makes me think it isn't the actual Link is no real green tunic, instead we have the blue royal shirt that some other characters have. Except the Gerudo girl who appears not to have that,which if it takes place 100 years after OoT's Link is defeated by Ganon, then it makes since as the Gerudo would be hated by the Hylians for birthing the Calamity Ganon.
So onto the playable characters. I'm pretty much 100% confident that Zelda is playable...but I also think the Zora girl, Gerudo, Goron, and Bird boy are also playable.
Sounds insane right? However if it takes place after OoT Link dies/defeated...then it makes sense since this would be the imprisoning war. In it there was no Link AKA no green tunic Link, and also no Master Sword was used against Ganon as I predicted a few sentences back.
So why do I think they are all playable? Go back the the Slate's voice at the beginning of the game. "You are the Light, our Light. That must shine upon Hyrule once again." Sounds okay if it was just Link about to go on this grand adventure right? But what if all the Sages, AKA Link, Zelda, Zora girl, Gerudo, Goron, and Bird boy were all put into Resurrection Chambers. If they all awake at roughly the same time to complete Shrine Trials as part of their becoming a Sage to stop Ganon, then the Slate Voice would say something like that to each of them right? "You are the Shadow...our Shadow" "You are the Spirit...our Spirit" "You are the Fire...our Fire" etc. it makes perfect sense. And fits the Imprisoning War perfectly if none of these wield the Master Sword in the end which is likely after the "all weapons break" quote. I'd go as far to say that when you start a new game, its randomly generated which character you play as as part of exploring a new world. Six playable Sages. Three girls, three boys, the seventh is the girl locked in the Castle who remains unknown.
Thats my final theory atleast. Theres been so many hints of atleast a girl option from the "that may not be Link" from E3 2014 to Aonuma pointing out the Zelda similarites at the Switch Tree House event but I also think the others characters are playable to, and its been kept a secret because Aonuma wanted to surprise players right from when they start.
Of course I could just as likely be wrong, but when I consider all things revealed and talked about this game I do think something like this will happen. I hope, girl playable character would make this the perfect game. But if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. But with everything considered it seems pretty likely atleast Zelda is playable, and likely all of them.
Is it though?
It's been a while since I watched Season 1 and I'm still not up on Season 2 so I'm not really sure about Laura Prats perf.
It makes sense that each part of Nintendo handle the process differently so it's unlikely that NCL had the decision for every versions anyway.
Still thanks for the info
Berzerk
She plays an exotic dancer from the west (well, a Spanish one I guess), but her English is quite good I think (and sounds better than in BotW imo). Still, apart from the logistical problem of having her record the English dub, they wouuld have wanted a native English actress surely.
Btw she's quite hot. And she shows in Marco Polo.
Btw 2 Netflix cancelling Marco Polo is a shame.
GAMETA
Banned
There's a "similar" scene in LotR RotK (or TT hehe)... there's also one in Shrek 2 that is supposed to imitate the one from LotR...
Overall it's a very "normal" sword movement in movies, etc... I don't think it's supposed to be an easter egg, it's just the devs trying to make Link look badass.
Anton Sugar
Member
Even though it is a very "generic" sword movement/stance, this is exactly what I thought of, too.
...kind of
. The rig doesn't have to be the same, otherwise you would have giant foxes or tiny dogs. Basically the animations are retargeted to the other rig, so when you set it up you can configure the way animations are interpreted when played on that rig. EG: pelvis is here, legs are here, etc. And then the animation is played relative to the new starting position. And then the rig doesn't have to be the same proportions as the original animal, any four legged creature could in theory play the same animations.ReubyJuice
Member
To be honest I haven't been paying that close attention to BOTW since I don't have a WiiU and am not planning on getting a Switch, but that Live trailer just blew my mind. This game looks awesome. I'm going to have to find a way to play it.
This isnt even remotely true. When the player character first meets Zelda she helps you get away from the palace guards and has already identified Ganon as the villan (She's 7 at the time)
Next time we see her she's escaping the palace with Impa and she proactively the player character the Ocarina of Time to keep it safe and start His journey into becoming the Hero of Time
The next time the player meets Zelda she is a fully realized Teenage Ninja having spent the last 7 years training to kick ass. She then helps and Aides the player in liasing with the other 6 time sages to unite them all. This is something she cant do personally because she is the being hunted as Ganons number 1 target.
Zelda only reveals herself when the 7 sages are united in what is meant to be the victorious banishing of Ganon. It goes wrong with Ganon overpowering the sages but Zelda is never made to look weak. Just outmatched.
The character who is made to look weak is Link because Ganon ignores him. Link isnt even worth his time to capture (Although its well worth pointing out that link also regularly gets captured in Zelda games and loses his Items/powers for at least one dungeon)
Furthermore when Zelda is finally rescued by link, its not as a damsel in distress but rather the culminating action of all the effort Zelda has put in to prepare Link to be a hero. So in many ways Zelda is responsible for her own rescue as without her guidance and training Link wouldnt be capable of saving anyone.
Shamrock7r
Member
This sounds like you're agreeing with him?