Well it's certainly a big world. Despite the game possibly having a ton more NPCs than past ones, the sheer size of the world is going to make their density pretty low.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
New Zelda Breath of the Wild trailer
- Thread starter Skeletos311
- Start date
Well it's certainly a big world. Despite the game possibly having a ton more NPCs than past ones, the sheer size of the world is going to make their density pretty low.
GodfatherX
Member
So I totally get that people have a fondness for ghibli, I tried to watch Princess Monoke for the first time about a month ago and it just flat out didn't click. Thinking about taking a look at another film
Well unlike those open world games the world itself is a playground with physics-based exploration and fighting.
GAMETA
Banned
What has changed between Tetra fearlessly ninja-kicking Ganondorf in the face, and then when she's in the basement going "Go help Hyrule. I will wait here"? That's not depth, that's two diametrically opposite characters. All that has happened is she is now wearing a dress and was told she's a princess. And yet she goes from a beacon of confidence to a delicate little flower. Everything from the way she holds herself to the way she's written indicates a distinctly different character, all because of a wardrobe change...
This moment
is literally the only hint you have in the entire back half of the game that she's even remotely the same character as this:
And you can say this somehow doesn't make her one-dimensional, except the whole time she does anything other than be captured or occasionally use some vaguely useful magic spell (only when it's convenient for you, of course) is when you're still under the impression she's not Zelda. Like, if you're older than the age of 10, you've probably already figured it out. But even still, on the narrative's terms, her becoming Zelda pretty much strips Tetra's character of any of its energy.
Dude, she was about to be kidnapped at the start of the game but fought back, and kept fighting back the whole time... the difference is that when she "becomes" Zelda she understands that she has a different role in the world, one that is bigger than her own pirate naive purposes (same shit happened to Link, his only purpose was to go after his sister, then he becomes the 11 year old kid who needs to save the whole fucking world) and that she's the one and only thing Ganondorf is looking for, and the one and only he needs to conquer the world... Link needs to restore the Master Sword before they can even have a chance against Ganon and she needs to be completely out of sight until then, so what would a reasonable person do?
To me Zelda's been one of the most strong females in videogames, she puts her responsibilities,her people and her kingdom before her own needs and wills, she's also the one who "bosses" Link around, the one who does the "masterplans", etc... She's definitely not the damsel in distress.
Neoleo2143
Member
Like the 1st sequel to wind waker for example. It's pretty blatantly a Damsel in Distress situation with nothing much beyond that.
Spirit Tracks played with those tropes rather cleverly though in both gameplay and narrative which made it rather convincing.
The experience from Gameinformer is pretty much to the contrary of all of this. There's quite a bit of variety in the experience.
Inferno313
Banned
Spirited Away is a great starting point, it was mine and I know a ton of people for whom it was as well.
Another one is Totoro, but that's more of a kid's flick, so keep that in mind.
My absolute favorite Ghibli production is actually not a Miyazaki one. It's Isao Takahata's The Tale of the Princess Kaguya. It has this beautiful art style evoking Japanese line art, and it's a great examination of the misogynistic treatment of women in feudal Japan.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Exactly! Phantom Hourglass is waaaaaaay worse about that stuff than Wind Waker could ever hope to be.
I loved Spirit Tracks, wonky controls be damned. People always seem to forget the game where Zelda is with you the entire time as a hulking armored badass.
No towns, no dungeons , no npcs, no story
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Dammit Nintendo. Stop. Didnt think I'd have to do a black out, yet here i am.
See you in 3 weeks Zelda GAF
See you in 3 weeks Zelda GAF
Neoleo2143
Member
The Final Boss in this regard was pretty brilliant, especially the first phase (not the train sequence, though that was cool too).
Again if you want to defend against the argument that there's an issue with Zelda's depiction in WW you cannot use inUniverse reasons.
"Hey Transformers is so BS!"
"But it's internally consistent!"
"Yeah but it's still BS"
There's worse cases than WW, but WW isn't exactly good either.
If we can complain about the shitty Twilight dungeon in TP without having someone go "focus on the Ice Mansion!".
I think we can discuss the issues WW have on this.
Inferno313
Banned
TOO BAD IT'S THE WORST FUCKING ZELDA GAME.
Sorry.
Sorry. Involuntary reaction. I just hear that title, and think of that goddamn MOTHERFU- *breaths*
I don't like the flute.
I agree that Zelda is particularly great in that one.
This so much. I hate seeing people dismiss her as just a standard damsel in distress. As a character she's always shown to be wise, strong, and in many instances admirably regal and graceful at the same time. I wish I could be half as classy as Zelda is in TP! I'm a bit of a tomboy but I actually love Zelda as a character when she's wearing the princess gowns and all, she's a great role model imo!
In TP she faces her responsibilities and sacrifices herself for her kingdom, then later she does the same for Midna.
In Ocarina she's the one who sends Link out to the Temple of Time, she's the one who gives him the Ocarina, she's the one who trains with the Sheikah for years upon years, she's the one who helps Link along the way as Sheik, and she's the one who uses her magic to give Link his childhood back.
You can complain about her being locked away in WW all you want, but she made the wise choice to stay there. And after the fight with Ganon, which was a fight that would be unwinnable without her help, she reverted back to being Tetra again (as we see in Phantom Hourglass, she doesn't even really like being called Zelda)
You can see in BotW she is fighting Calamity head on to try and save Hyrule.
She's the one with the triforce of wisdom, and in a lot of the games, it really shows.
Broken Hope
Member
Still no confirmation of traditional dungeons, dungeon items etc yet?
Just shrines?
Just shrines?
Mononoke is my favorite movie, so I can't really help you if you didn't like it. However, Spirited Away is supposed to be better, but I really didn't enjoy it much. Maybe you will like that better? Each Ghibli film is unique (besides the art style), so try a different movie to see if you enjoy it.
Neoleo2143
Member
Pretty much. Getting to places is quite a bit of an adventure it seems.
Dungeons are 100% confirmed. Dungeon items are deconfirmed for the most part.
Always-honest
Banned
From what i read on GAf there are Dungeons too. Just a bit smaller than usual.
crooked spin
Member
Have you seen this thread about the Game Informer article? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1341760
(contains spoilers, possibly)
Inferno313
Banned
I'm honestly not sure that you're familiar with the concept of a problematic trope. All those things you said about Zelda are true, mostly true, at least. None of that changes the fact that, in the vast majority of the titles in the series, she gets kidnapped at some point, and it's up to Link to save her. It perpetuates this cultural notion that even a skilled, strong-willed, powerful woman sometimes needs a big strong man to protect her from the bad dudes. These issues are complicated, one doesn't undo the other.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Why exactly aren't in-universe reasons allowed, again? Is there a reason for that other than that they are damaging to the point you're trying to make?
If it's something patently ridiculous, like how Quiet dresses like a hooker because she breathes through her skin in MGSV, that's fine, but I don't really see the problem with Zelda going into hiding once her identity is revealed since she wields one third of a potentially devastating magical artifact and they have no way to defend themselves against Ganon yet. It's exactly the same reason she went into hiding in OoT, after all. She gets plenty of time to shine as Tetra and during the final battle, too.
If you find it "problematic," then fine. It's just a weird game to focus on in this series, especially since its direct sequel starts with her getting turned to stone and it becomes the whole focus of the quest. If starts to seem almost like you want to tear down one of the better portrayals of the character for some reason.
Oh my god I forgot about the flute
why would you do this to me
The Game Informer article is about them playing through the first dungeon, defeating the dungeon boss and how the dungeon items are getting a fresh approach in this zelda.
Check it if you want, although it does give some spoilers.
Wowfunhappy
Member
RampagingSoul
Member
I know. I still think the DS Zeldas are my least favorite Zelda games out of what I've played, but I acknowledge what they did right, mainly with Zelda in Spirit Tracks.
Inferno313
Banned
Dude I had to take a fucking 3 month break from that game because I literally couldn't play one of the songs to progress, no matter how many times I tried.
Evil's Bane
Member
Gameinformer played one of the dungeons and had impressions on it, so they've been confirmed.
Nintendo's fairly good about listening to its fans regarding Zelda games. We've seen it with Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Link Between Worlds, and now with Breath of the Wild. Even if it takes a while.
So long as fans continue to be vocal about having a more strong, prominent Zelda, I feel we'll get it. Eventually. Zelda's character has grown significantly over the iterations, though obviously it could always be better.
So long as fans continue to be vocal about having a more strong, prominent Zelda, I feel we'll get it. Eventually. Zelda's character has grown significantly over the iterations, though obviously it could always be better.
RampagingSoul
Member
Yeah... the flute was just... bad...
I never had that much trouble, but it was frustrating. Man...
Coffee Dog
Banned
There are traditional dungeons, but they are smaller and 100% optional.
Internal consistency incredibly important in a good story. If you think transformers is BS, then you think it's BS, that's all, there's no need for it to modify itself for your tastes if the artistic vision of the comic/cartoon/movie is being maintained.
The problem is that the "this is bullshit" argument for Zelda is flawed anyway. Zelda is a strong character and a good leader. As a princess character I love her, and I think its kinda shit that you're all just reducing her to a damsel in distress.
I don't think there's going to be a whole lot for me in this game
The open world sandbox element doesn't really interest me..I don't think there's going to be a whole lot for me in this game
Getting to the dungeons themselves is said to be more "dungeon like". The overworld is now part of the challenge.
Aonuma has all but said that you need to do the dungeons to get the "true ending."
Citation needed?
They haven't said anything about the size of dungeons have they?
Traditional dungeons have been confirmed for a long time so I don't know why people are still querying this.
Yeah, there are boss battles and everything on the overworld
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Regarding the first link in the OP, is the first trailer from there on Switch and the second on Wii-U? cause the first trailer looks fine but the second is completely ridden with jaggies. I might actually have to pass for now if it's going to be that rough on Wii-U
akidnamededdy
Banned
They're the only ones I've only played through once. I think I would like to play through Spirit Tracks again, though. Just....that....aaarrgghhhh
That's pretty rough, hahah. I did get super hung up on one particular song though, seemed like it was the same one for everyone I talked too about it back then, as well. Nintendo does love their gimmicks, I guess.
Neoleo2143
Member
Because Ganon can be challenged at any time theoretically, everything in the game is besides defeating Ganon is optional to beating the game, including the story and the dungeons.
Dungeons are smaller than they were in Twilight Princess.
I'm aware dungeons are technically optional, as with everything else in the game.
But nothing has been said about the size of the dungeons. We haven't even seen any of the main dungeons in detail. All we've seen are the shrines.
akidnamededdy
Banned
The GI article (and I think Kagari here on the board?) said that the dungeons are
more puzzle-like than maze-like, if that makes sense. In that sense they might be a bit smaller than what you might think of, but super rewarding to figure out and overcome.
I hope we get some super goofy cutscene for beating the game early.
I don't think there's going to be a whole lot for me in this game
What does interest you about Zelda? If it's exploration and the world/story then this game has it in spades. If it's the puzzles then this game also has them in spades. You've got 120 of the same single-room puzzles that dungeons have always contained but you've also got puzzles in the overworld just to get to places, get more gear, etc and then finally you've got the dungeons which are both puzzles in themselves and puzzles in how you get to them. If you're expecting another rehash of the formula put into place by Ocarina of Time then no, you're not getting that here.
This just in: Far Cry 4 has zero minutes of gameplay. $infinte per minute of gameplay, what a ripoff.
They're not allowed because they're kindergarten arguments.
Or "Just Because" arguments.
Lore and story can be anything the author want. It can (and did change) at the drop of the pen.
Tetra became a shitty useless character in the vastly better sequel and they had inUniverse reasons to do that.
Should we dismiss the damselling in PH because they had inUniverse reason to do that?
She was dead weight in PH but you can't say it's shitty because she was turned to stone so obviously she couldn't do anything, why are you arguing that it's bad when they give you a pretty good reason why that's happening?
See why inUniverse reasons don't work, now?
I'm not reducing her to a damsel in distress, the game is!
Zelda in OoT was able to hide for 7 years in plain sight but once Tetra change clothes? yelp the gig is up and to the dungeon with you.
The last boss like pretty much every part of the game exists for gameplay reason 1rst and foremost.
It's cool, works well and they should (and are) praised for it.
That doesn't mean we don't get to point at the shitty stuffs that happen before.
Again most dungeons in TP are great but that doesn't mean the shitty ones are suddenly good because they happen to share digital space with good stuffs.
RampagingSoul
Member
Yeah, I can't see myself playing through them again with how they play and the little frustrations that each title has. I still have plenty of other Zeldas I need to beat like Link's Awakening DX, the Oracle games and Minish Cap.
Inferno313
Banned
Those are all great.
I think I'm going to use the remaining 3 weeks, and my NES Classic Mini, to try to finally finish Zelda 1 and 2. They're practically the only games in the series I've never sat down and finished, I've played them plenty of times. Just, the archaic nature has always caused me to bounce off them before completing them. Given that this is pulling from those early titles in particular, I feel like it'd be good to have them fresh in my mind.