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New Zelda Breath of the Wild trailer

If Zelda doesn't also freeze herself then there most definitely will be two Zeldas. There'd have to be if there's one in the past and one in the present day. Another re-incarnation.

I know some people are saying she could be an old woman in the modern timeline. But... that'd make her over 110 years old...

There is some precedent in zelda for that though.

Tetras pirate buddy Niko, from wind waker is still alive a hundred years later in spirit tracks. Also Impa in skyward sword, though Shiekah are perhaps longer lived than hylians.

I don't really like this approach to LGBT characters at all. It's like an easy way for a creator to check off a "diversity" checkmark without actually doing the work. I'd love to see LGBT representation in Zelda, but I'd want them to actually represent it. Even if it's something small, like giving that Goron dude a Goron husband that you meet at one or two points, that'd be a great positive step for NIntendo.

Uh. Do Gorons even have genders? I'm pretty sure they're all just rock people rather than specifically male/female (though they seem to have more male tendancies, as have been shown in the many games).
 
They were asked multiple times about this, and they've been adamant about it. Zelda is a one dimensional damsel in distress. She can't be allowed strength and independence actually, otherwise it undermines the very canonical male Link apparently. I'm still wondering what happened with the female Link rumors we had going last year.

I mean if you ignore Ocarina of Time, Skyward Sword, Wind Waker and Spirit tracks I guess you might have a point?

Even in Twilight Princess, where she does play a damsel in distress role, she was shown to be a strong leader and character in cut scenes.

Everything we've heard about BoTW also indicates she has a strong role throughout the game. A playable Zelda section would not surprise me at this point.

But yeah, sure, continue to be outraged over nothing.
 

Cloukyo

Banned
I don't think anyone thinks Nintendo's the devil for it. But Aonuma's reasoning against it was fucking terrible. And I can certainly empathize with people bored with seeing the franchise's main female character being portrayed as helpless time and again, or just outright sobbing in Link's arms in the marketing

Maybe you should just not play any Zelda games. Or games with women in them at all anymore.

It seems if they show any moment of weakness its automatically bad.

A vast proportion of people love the new Zelda, and found the scene in the rain quite dramatic and moving, a welcome departure from the vanilla nature of the older games.
 
I finally had my first dream of playing BotW last night. It was seriously underwhelming in my dream.

I'm just taking that as a sign that my unconscious mind is far less creative than the minds at Nintendo.
 

Cloukyo

Banned
I mean if you ignore Ocarina of Time, Skyward Sword, Wind Waker and Spirit tracks I guess you might have a point?

Even in Twilight Princess, where she does play a damsel in distress role, she was shown to be a strong leader and character in cut scenes.

Everything we've heard about BoTW also indicates she has a strong role throughout the game. A playable Zelda section would not surprise me at this point.

But yeah, sure, continue to be outraged over nothing.

The same cancer as people in the Horizon threads. People who moan about what the game isn't, rather than talking about what the game IS.
 
There is some precedent in zelda for that though.

Tetras pirate buddy Niko, from wind waker is still alive a hundred years later in spirit tracks. Also Impa in skyward sword, though Shiekah are perhaps longer lived than hylians.



Uh. Do Gorons even have genders? I'm pretty sure they're all just rock people rather than specifically male/female (though they seem to have more male tendancies, as have been shown in the many games).

Hmm... Could've sworn Twilight Princess or one of these games had lady Gorons. I'm not sure though.
 
Hmm... Could've sworn Twilight Princess or one of these games had lady Gorons. I'm not sure though.

I don't think Ocarina or TP did.
Majoras mask actually had a child Goron, but there were only mentions of his Father (who died and became the Goron mask) and his Grandfather (the goron frozen outside), and no mention of a Mother/Grandmother. I don't think we know how Gorons reproduce.
 
Maybe you should just not play any Zelda games. Or games with women in them at all anymore.

It seems if they show any moment of weakness its automatically bad.

A vast proportion of people love the new Zelda, and found the scene in the rain quite dramatic and moving, a welcome departure from the vanilla nature of the older games.

I think that scene looks really interesting, and is much more dramatic than Zelda cutscenes have been in the past. However, IF we get frequent scenes like that, and have another story where Zelda gets kidnapped and it's up to Link to save her, that's totally going to rub people the wrong way, and for good reason. The helpless damsel in distress trope is outdated and sexist. This Zelda appears to hopefully be avoiding that trope, but I don't think there's anything wrong with people being concerned about the possibility.

These knee-jerk defensive responses are unnecessary. It's possible to criticize an aspect of something and still like it, even love it. There's plenty of aspects of each Zelda game that I criticize, whether it's a mechanical thing, a narrative thing, or a representation thing. Doesn't mean they're not my favorite series of games in the world.
 

kromeo

Member
Seems to have a lot of fog this Hyrule (if it's supposed to be Hyrule)

I really hope the dungeons don't feel like an afterthought in this game, I haven't followed everything as closely as a lot of people but I've barely ever seen them mentioned
 

burgerdog

Member
So we can expect more Switch units available in April? I'm going to cancel my Wii U pre order and switch to Switch. It's going to suck having to wait an extra month or so to play it but there's plenty of games to play right now anyway.
 

Cloukyo

Banned
I think that scene looks really interesting, and is much more dramatic than Zelda cutscenes have been in the past. However, IF we get frequent scenes like that, and have another story where Zelda gets kidnapped and it's up to Link to save her, that's totally going to rub people the wrong way, and for good reason. The helpless damsel in distress trope is outdated and sexist. This Zelda appears to hopefully be avoiding that trope, but I don't think there's anything wrong with people being concerned about the possibility.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about though.

OoT was about Link saving all of Hyrule, not just Zelda
MM didn't even have Zelda in it
WW was about Link saving his sister, not Zelda. Tetra helped in that, and then she worked together with Link by using the light arrows.
TP was more about helping Midna, not Zelda.

What overdone helpless damsel in distress trope are you talking about?

Which of these Zeldas were absolutely helpless? The only one I can think of is maybe TP Zelda because she was trapped in her castle, but even then, she surrendered herself because Zant threatened to destroy her entire kingdom and it's people, she then helps destroy Zant with the light arrows. Just like in WW.

Every Zelda has been a strong and independent woman. Some of them have had trouble fighting an unstoppable pig monster, big surprise.
 

Tunoku

Member
This kind of reminded me of that Mummy trailer without music, but in a good way. Only three weeks to go!

Actually, more than that for me since I'm ordering via Amazon France D:
 
Thank you. Didn't realize it was B-Roll footage.


Still, looked good actually.


MasterSword at the base of Deku Tree is pretty cool imagery wise. Not picking up a switch as of yet. But I definitley have my eye on this game.

Interestingly, this game probably embodies your avatar moreso than any other game before it.
 

arlucool

Member
Zelda's horse looks nice. I wonder what its name is.

As it has been noticed before, there's a side-quest that involves Link in the search for a White Horse, and implies it's of a magical/mystical nature... Perhaps explaining why it's still alive after 100+ years? If is in fact Zelda's horse, anyway.
 
I honestly don't know what you're talking about though.

OoT was about Link saving all of Hyrule, not just Zelda
MM didn't even have Zelda in it
WW was about Link saving his sister, not Zelda. Tetra helped in that, and then she worked together with Link by using the light arrows.
TP was more about helping Midna, not Zelda.

What overdone helpless damsel in distress trope are you talking about?

Which of these Zeldas were absolutely helpless? The only one I can think of is maybe TP Zelda because she was trapped in her castle, but even then, she surrendered herself because Zant threatened to destroy her entire kingdom and it's people, she then helps destroy Zant with the light arrows. Just like in WW.

Every Zelda has been a strong and independent woman. Some of them have had trouble fighting an unstoppable pig monster, big surprise.

You seriously need to be explained the concept of the trope? I don't think you do. How much, or how little, it's used in other Zelda game is irrelevant to the question of whether or not it's being used here; avoiding the trope in the past doesn't give you a "get out of jail free" card to use in the future.

But, I'll tear down your arguement, so that we can be on the same page.
First off, you only listed a handful of titles. Plenty of the titles you omitted delve into this trope more deeply. The first three titles, in particular, are cut-and-dry examples of the trope.

But, you also justify it in Ocarina of Time by arguing that Link is saving all of Hyrule, not just Zelda. That's, mostly irrelevant, as tropes can be utilized through iconography in the same way that they can be utilized in narrative, and that Zelda is clearly being used as the emotional motivation for the player to fight Ganondorf, not the rest of Hyrule. A stronger defense would be to discuss what the game did to try to mitigate it, by letting Zelda take on the form of Sheik for the majority of the game. The fact-of-the-matter, though, is that the end of the game literally depicts Link, acting as our "knight in shining armor", storming the castle of the villain, Ganondorf, to rescue the kidnapped Princess, Zelda. That's a quintessential description of the damsel in distress trope

Wind Waker still absolutely engages in the trope, you said it yourself. Aryl swaps places with Zelda as the damsel for the majority of the game. That doesn't mean it doesn't engage in a long-held sexist trope where women/girls are in need of protection from men/boys. And, of course, you omitted the fact that Zelda does once again get kidnapped for a portion during the finale of the game, and Link has to save her.

Twilight Princess, as you admitted, takes one of the most competent and badass depictions of Zelda, and still manages to turn her into a damsel for a portion of the game.

It's great that the series is continuing to push to give Zelda more and more agency, it's awesome to see that. That doesn't necessarily excuse the utilization of outdated sexist tropes though, it's possible to recognize both at the same time.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Maybe you should just not play any Zelda games. Or games with women in them at all anymore.

It seems if they show any moment of weakness its automatically bad.

A vast proportion of people love the new Zelda, and found the scene in the rain quite dramatic and moving, a welcome departure from the vanilla nature of the older games.

This isn't how you engage with criticism.

It's possible to take issue with an aspect of a piece of media while enjoying it as a whole. But enjoyment doesn't suddenly mean apologizing for everything that seems concerning or outright tired. Especially as this industry becomes more conscientious about how women are portrayed in games, and roles that are either intentionally or unintentionally enforced.

"Weakness' isn't bad. Weakness is human. But the dozenth time they've presented their titular character (who are all mostly supposed to be different women) as needing to be saved becomes an exhausted pattern. Particularly when this certainly isn't a unique trait to Nintendo's games, or games at large.
 
Wow people...you all can't talk about BotW at all. It is fucking horrible to come in a Zelda thread. You all drive me nuts. Why cant you all just expect that you cant play Zelda in this game. Maybe in the next one or the one after that. But in this one Link is the hero and most girls enjoy it because they enjoy a good game and not the gender of the hero. Jesus fucking christ.

Cant we talk about those short trailers? Like the beautiful sunset and where they might go? It seems like to be some important place with a horse statue in the middle.
Btw I dont know if the horse stature is modeled after an female or male horse.
 
Wow people...you all can't talk about BotW at all. It is fucking horrible to come in a Zelda thread. You all drive me nuts. Why cant you all just expect that you cant play Zelda in this game. Maybe in the next one or the one after that. But in this one Link is the hero and most girls enjoy it because they enjoy a good game and not the gender of the hero. Jesus fucking christ.

Cant we talk about those short trailers? Like the beautiful sunset and where they might go? It seems like to be some important place with a horse statue in the middle.
Btw I dont know if the horse stature is modeled after an female or male horse.

How are we not talking about Breath of the Wild? We're specifically talking about the idea of female representation in Breath of the Wild, or Is this just a "keep your politics out of my video games" shitpost?
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Wow people...you all can't talk about BotW at all. It is fucking horrible to come in a Zelda thread. You all drive me nuts. Why cant you all just expect that you cant play Zelda in this game. Maybe in the next one or the one after that. But in this one Link is the hero and most girls enjoy it because they enjoy a good game and not the gender of the hero. Jesus fucking christ.

Cant we talk about those short trailers? Like the beautiful sunset and where they might go? It seems like to be some important place with a horse statue in the middle.
Btw I dont know if the horse stature is modeled after an female or male horse.

*trailer comes out for new game*

*thread filled with conversation about new game*

"WHY CAN'T YOU PEOPLE JUST TALK ABOUT THE GAME?!"
 

diaspora

Member
How are we not talking about Breath of the Wild? We're specifically talking about the idea of female representation in Breath of the Wild, or Is this just a "keep your politics out of my video games" shitpost?
Probably more of a "this ship has already sailed so what the hell are people spamming this for".
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Probably more of a "this ship has already sailed so what the hell are people spamming this for".

Which is funny considering that's not even what most of the conversation in this thread is about... There are like acouple posts that mention "playable female character", but mostly we're talking about Zelda's role in the franchise and how she's being presented here.
 
How are we not talking about Breath of the Wild? We're specifically talking about the idea of female representation in Breath of the Wild, or Is this just a "keep your politics out of my video games" shitpost?

But you dont speak specifically about the new trailer or what is shown. It is the same old arguments we talk always about in every BotW thread. I dont mind talking about it from time to time but not always. And no side has better arguments than the others. Its like listening to little children in a kindergarden. No conversation but always "my opinion is better than yours." Thats not talking about the new news about this game.
You all cant enjoy anything anymore. Instead of saying something positive it must be something negative because it cant be possible to like anything in this cruel cruel world.
 
Has it been confirmed that Zelda won't be playable at all or are we just assuming

Assuming, of course. Aonuma has explicitly stated that he likes to mislead fans with PR comments and interview answers so that we're genuinely surprised when playing the game. So it's definitely possible, and I honestly think fairly likely.

But then again, I won't be all that disappointed if she's not.
 

Cloukyo

Banned
How are we not talking about Breath of the Wild? We're specifically talking about the idea of female representation in Breath of the Wild, or Is this just a "keep your politics out of my video games" shitpost?

I'm sure that's what people expect when coming into a trailer thread
 
But you dont speak specifically about the new trailer or what is shown. It is the same old arguments we talk always about in every BotW thread. I dont mind talking about it from time to time but not always. And no side has better arguments than the others. Its like listening to little children in a kindergarden. No conversation but always "my opinion is better than yours." Thats not talking about the new news about this game.
You all cant enjoy anything anymore. Instead of saying something positive it must be something negative because it cant be possible to like anything in this cruel cruel world.

As far as I can tell, the conversation about Zelda's representation in this thread began due to a comment on the first page about how great Zelda looks in this trailer, and that it's a shame that she's not playable. The conversation continued to flow and evolve, as they are want to do, and here we are: 340 posts later. I don't believe we've gotten off-topic from Breath of the Wild, though.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
I'm fine with Zelda getting more development and fine with that development largely involving her being shown to be vulnerable, as long as that isn't the only thing about her and that it isn't used in a way to empower Link and the player at her expense. You can have a character show weakness and fragility while also then showing them to be strong and capable. That's a rather standard character arc, displaying growth and development.

If the game is structured how I think it is we'll have flashbacks of Link and Zelda travelling the world of Hyrule to activate these Divine Beasts in order to prevent Ganon's return. Which will ultimately backfire on them resulting in the fall of Hyrule at the hands of the Guardians. It will be a journey of naivety on both her and Link's part, much like OoT's opening segments, with the lowest point being their failure and flight. Leaving Link to slumber for 100 years and who knows what happening to the Zelda and the rest.

How things are handled in the present and what becomes of Zelda and her role in the story in the present is going to be the determining factor in her overall depiction. The past segments possibly showing her as naive and vulnerable are fine if they are then balanced out in the present showing character growth and maturity with Zelda displaying wisdom and strength that is not reliant on Link/player saving her. The player/Link will always be the hero, our role will always be the determining factor, but that doesn't prevent other characters from being important and capable on their own nor does it require showing them to be feeble and incapable in the final hour to bolster the need for Link to come to the rescue.

I'm sure that's what people expect when coming into a trailer thread

You cry more than Zelda does. If you don't like the discussion don't engage with it. Talk about the content in the trailer you care about or don't. Multiple conversations can occur within a thread at the same time.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
But you dont speak specifically about the new trailer or what is shown. It is the same old arguments we talk always about in every BotW thread. I dont mind talking about it from time to time but not always. And no side has better arguments than the others. Its like listening to little children in a kindergarden. No conversation but always "my opinion is better than yours." Thats not talking about the new news about this game.
You all cant enjoy anything anymore. Instead of saying something positive it must be something negative because it cant be possible to like anything in this cruel cruel world.

There have been like 6 Breath of the Wild threads started in just the last 3 or so days (hell I'm writing one as we speak). A new trailer with a shot of them on a horse, a shot of Link with a sword, the same characters we've seen mugging at the camera, another moblin getting hit... I don't know how much conversation you're expecting these to hold.

If you just wanna come into a BotW thread to see a million posts going "HYYYYYYPE", your options aren't limited. But the conversation is naturally going to diverge and take swings here or there. Getting pissed about it doesn't change that. It's a thread about Zelda. We're talking about Zelda.
 
That's like the 5th time it's posted in this thread, and it doesn't make it any more true

Yeah, I don't really see anime in the trailer. At least not, stereotypical traditional anime. It's more Ghibli-esque than anything, which is a fairly unique tone that isn't shared by a lot of other anime, as far as I've seen (I'm decidedly not an anime guy, so I may be wrong. Big Ghibli buff though). It feels more Princess Mononoke than anything.
 

Mael

Member
New trailer is great because it ends with Sword in front of the Deku tree and we have time enough to make out the details unlike the blinkyoullmiss view we had before.

As for Zelda, I'm not holding my breath, if she's anything more than a walking plot device it's going to be nice.
And the discussion about WW is laughable, she's useless once she learns that she is a princess.
She's literally locked away and damsell'd for the rest of the game.
And NO you can't use the ingame lore or story to excuse that one, they could have changed it in a that made sense they had the pen to write the script after all.
 
Yeah, I don't really see anime in the trailer. At least not, stereotypical traditional anime. It's more Ghibli-esque than anything, which is a fairly unique tone that isn't shared by a lot of other anime, as far as I've seen (I'm decidedly not an anime guy, so I may be wrong. Big Ghibli buff though). It feels more Princess Mononoke than anything.

Yeah, definitely more Ghibli than straight anime in its visuals/style and the music. As someone that watches both, this feels more toward a Studio Ghibli project than typical anime. I definitely get some Princess Mononoke vibes and some of it reminds me of Castle in the Sky too.
 
Yeah, I don't really see anime in the trailer. At least not, stereotypical traditional anime. It's more Ghibli-esque than anything, which is a fairly unique tone that isn't shared by a lot of other anime, as far as I've seen (I'm decidedly not an anime guy, so I may be wrong. Big Ghibli buff though). It feels more Princess Mononoke than anything.

The way Aonuma has been describing the game's goal, it's pretty much the equivalent ethos of Ghibli's effort in animation. It's about making the game feel as natural as possible as in these are things that people in this universe would do. Like how NPCs hurry indoors when it rains or how sound is so well timed, varied and coordinated so as to be believable. When Miyamoto talked about how "wait why would anyone do this, it's dangerous" in regards to villagers in certain aspects of life I was like yeah, it is and they wanted to make it believable.

Some works are inspired by the stories and clean visuals of Ghibli movies, Zelda is inspired by the ethos that made them what they are.
 

Joei

Member
I'm actually kind of surprised there were so many NPCs. I thought this was going to be more of an isolated adventure similar to LoZ1.

Graphically, I'll echo what everyone else said that this looks stunning.
 
New trailer is great because it ends with Sword in front of the Deku tree and we have time enough to make out the details unlike the blinkyoullmiss view we had before.

As for Zelda, I'm not holding my breath, if she's anything more than a walking plot device it's going to be nice.
And the discussion about WW is laughable, she's useless once she learns that she is a princess.
She's literally locked away and damsell'd for the rest of the game.
And NO you can't use the ingame lore or story to excuse that one, they could have changed it in a that made sense they had the pen to write the script after all.

I mean, as soon as Ganon finds out who she is, her being outside becomes a liability for everybody. She's in hiding. She only really gets captured towards the very end of the game, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, if you have a problem with that minor bit of the story where she's locked up, then maybe just focus on the vast majority of the game where she's a badass pirate queen or going toe-to-toe with Ganon right alongside you.

Basically what I'm saying is if you're looking for a Zelda game where Zelda is a stereotypical damsel trope, there are better choices for your argument than Wind Waker.
 
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