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[Crayon]

I'm letting the demo attract now for as lmost an hour. I can't take my eyes off it it looks great. There are various artifacts in the graphics so it shows the limitations ofmy base ps4 but the overall effect is just top notch. I'm really surprised after seeing pics of the somewhat flat beta for so long.

 

[thelastword]

As for the whole car debated and other bits.....

Each and every car in Gran Turismo Sport are Premium. What this means is the level of detail that's gone into each car have essentially made them futureproof, ready to be placed right into any future titles. The official line is that only the manufacturers CAD data is more precise than those in Gran Turismo Sport.

It shows as well. Last year I had my reservations with certain visual elements, noticing some jagged edges here and there, as well as a few other minor issues. I was able to do six races during my time at EGX and I have zero complaints. Frankly, Gran Turismo Sport has the best looking cars in gaming today. I had nothing but praise for Project Cars 2 and I stand by what I said, though the level of detail found in GT Sport is astounding.

Link


Everybody can see it though, well most people anyway....


Moving on, there's somethings that he mentioned in his F7 review, which has been resonated by Eurogamer...Even before F7 launched I've mentioned them as well in some of the multiple threads we have going now in racing season

But it's this...

One thing that has stood out to me is the varied aesthetic qualities of Forza Motorsport 7. One thing I quickly noticed is that even on the PC with settings turned up high, the track and near surroundings can be fairly poor. The grass is matted, the track looks and feels flat, leaving it characterless. It's strange because other background features look exquisite. Racing around Prague is stunning, looking at the architecture, the river. One thing I quickly noticed is the lighting and shadow system in place. All too often the light just looks dulled down, even in brighter conditions.

Speaking of weather conditions. I have some issues with the ones placed in the game. Turn 10 have claimed that Forza has a dynamic weather system in place. This is, frankly, rubbish. From extensive racing, including spending hours on the same track, in the same race, watching time slowly tick by I know this to be a fact. For example, I was on Spa for one race and despite claims of dynamic weather, the clouds in the sky didn't even move position from the tenth to the seventieth minute. Everything is predetermined and based on how far you've traveled in a race. A far cry from being dynamic.

More than that, I have some issues with even the appearance of the weather. From some angles the weather system looks great, rain falling on your windscreen. From other angles, it's poor at best. Puddles do form but the spray from tires is just weak and mist-like except at predetermined locations. The track also never seems to have any variation, with it all just having a fairly even sheen on it. Also, while rain doesn't actually fall in tunnels, the road still happens to be just as wet as the rest of the course. These are small issues in the grand scale, but they take away from the overall effect of the game.

Link

Well, that whole quote really, especially most of the last paragraph is what I've noticed as well....Rain in F7 just looks like a prebaked layer on the tarmac surface, it's one of the main reasons I began questioning the dynamic nature of F7's weather and what T10 had pronounced. I've been looking at several races in F7 and the wet sheen all look the same, puddles all look the same, but what really gave it away was how the cars all plough the puddles with the same animation, same spray et al.... giving a vibe that puddles are also just a predetermined location on a wet track, perhaps every 15 feet or perhaps fixed on a track. It doesn't give the sense of dynamism...I had a perfect video illustrating just that, so I'll have to get it, but I'm sure any video of wet weather would suffice to clue anyone in....


Eh!....Eurogamer had similar sentiments on dynamic weather...

It might not have the feature set of something like Project Cars 2 (that weather, while improved from what was featured in Forza 6, doesn't allow for truly dynamic around the clock races, unfortunately).

Link

 

[Momentary]

I have a wider pc2 plan if you want...

Is this photomode? Because I cannot get that kind of FOV during gameplay in the chase cam. If there is a way I would definitely like to know how.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Is this photomode? Because I cannot get that kind of FOV during gameplay. If there is a way I would definitely like to know how.

Helmet cam gives dof

 

[Jamesways]

At the end of the day with Crew 2, NFS and F7, GTS, PCars2 racing fans are in a great place right now and while I realize there will always be bickering especially between F7 and GTS fans, just remember we all have great racing games to play with each having some benefits the other might not have.

And we'll have GTR3 and TT Isle of Man next year as well!

 

[eso76]

Ok guys so I downloaded the gts demo and let it play in attract mode for half an hour.

This thread had a good run.

Frankly, this has no reason to exist now.
I mean yeah if you focus on single aspects and tiny bits you might decide that this or that game does this particular thing better, and they all look good but when you take the whole picture into consideration GTS destroys anything else.
No amount of 4k and high Res textures can bring the other games into the same universe.

These guys'love for cars and aesthetics just shows in every car showcase, replay, picture, detail. They're just in a league of their own.

Sure, they take their time, and publishers need to grant other devs longer cycles, because dishing out games at this rate they'll never compete.

(Negatives: I'm getting micro stuttering during cars showcase and reflections seem to update at a lower refresh rate in-game)

 

[ethomaz]

Turn 10 have claimed that Forza has a dynamic weather system in place. This is, frankly, rubbish. From extensive racing, including spending hours on the same track, in the same race, watching time slowly tick by I know this to be a fact. For example, I was on Spa for one race and despite claims of dynamic weather, the clouds in the sky didn’t even move position from the tenth to the seventieth minute. Everything is predetermined and based on how far you’ve traveled in a race. A far cry from being dynamic.

That was obvious and even EG said the same.

But some guys here says that dynamic means just the change of weather during the race even if pre-defined / baked.

That is not what most mean when says that a game has “dynamic weather and ToD”... that means that the game has simulation happening in real-time to define the actual weather / ToD... it is dynamic like real life.

PS. The whole debate about Forza 7 not having dynamic weather maybe deserves it own thread.

 

[onQ123]

We'll never know.. because there's no such thing as wind in GT:S.

Unless you can link me to some footage that shows the trees moving somewhere else?

No wind huh?

 

[Self_Destructive]

No wind huh?

Nice shot of them trees blowing. Maybe try again. lol

And you're were really trying to tell me you weren't bitter before..

 

[ethomaz]

BTW GTS full game trial is out.

 

[onQ123]

Nice shot of them trees blowing. Maybe try again. lol

And you're were really trying to tell me you weren't bitter before..

You said there was no such thing as wind in GTS & ended with a period.

 

[Self_Destructive]

You said there was no such thing as wind in GTS & ended with a period.

Yea, when it comes to the trees, which we were talking about. I brought it up because the fact that flags were blowing but the trees don't, was something that stands out.

Post some trees blowing and I'll admit I was wrong.

 

[benzy]

Aha. Same thing with the self-shadowing from the mirrors missing in the same pic?

That's because the car is positioned in that pic to where the sunlight wouldn't cause the side mirror to self shadow. Self shadows were always in the game.

 

[onQ123]

Yea, when it comes to the trees, which we were talking about. I brought it up because the fact that flags were blowing but the trees don't, was something that stands out.

Post some trees blowing and I'll admit I was wrong.

You're already wrong we don't need to see it moving the trees to confirm that. You said it was no such thing as wind in GTS.

 

[Sebmugi]

Is this photomode? Because I cannot get that kind of FOV during gameplay in the chase cam. If there is a way I would definitely like to know how.

yeah it's photomode

 

[Self_Destructive]

You're already wrong we don't need to see it moving the trees to confirm that. You said it was no such thing as wind in GTS.

Well we need to see the trees moving to contest the original point.. which now you're dearly trying to avoid.

No doubt as soon as you spot some tree movement, you'll be running back here to throw it in my face. Which I'm eagerly awaiting.. I might add. So.. get back to work.

 

[c0de]

Ok guys so I downloaded the gts demo and let it play in attract mode for half an hour.

This thread had a good run.

Frankly, this has no reason to exist now.
I mean yeah if you focus on single aspects and tiny bits you might decide that this or that game does this particular thing better, and they all look good but when you take the whole picture into consideration GTS destroys anything else.
No amount of 4k and high Res textures can bring the other games into the same universe.

These guys'love for cars and aesthetics just shows in every car showcase, replay, picture, detail. They're just in a league of their own.

Sure, they take their time, and publishers need to grant other devs longer cycles, because dishing out games at this rate they'll never compete.

(Negatives: I'm getting micro stuttering during cars showcase and reflections seem to update at a lower refresh rate in-game)

Oh yes, it looks phenomenal but I still wait for actual gameplay to experience myself.

 

[KORNdoggy]

GTS

pCARS 2

Could you drive 20 ft further forward in the pcars version so these actually match? Thanks.

 

[eso76]

You're already wrong we don't need to see it moving the trees to confirm that. You said it was no such thing as wind in GTS.

The point was always trees moving in the wind.

And it might sound minor (it is) but since they look so good at times, seeing them perfectly still does stick out a bit. I mean, you look at them and expect to see them swaying even just a little, but it doesn't happen.
At least I haven't seen it happen.

 

[onQ123]

Well we need to see the trees moving to contest the original point.. which now you're dearly trying to avoid.

No doubt as soon as you spot some tree movement, you'll be running back here to throw it in my face. Which I'm eagerly awaiting.. I might add. So.. get back to work.

I wasn't looking for it but when I seen the cloths moving I thought to myself how is this possible when there is no such thing as wind in GTS.

The point was always trees moving in the wind.

And it might sound minor (it is) but since they look so good at times, seeing them perfectly still does stick out a bit. I mean, you look at them and expect to see them swaying even just a little, but it doesn't happen.
At least I haven't seen it happen.

Well he took it a step further & said there was no such thing as wind in the game.

 

[Space_nut]

That was obvious and even EG said the same.

But some guys here says that dynamic means just the change of weather during the race even if pre-defined / baked.

That is not what most mean when says that a game has “dynamic weather and ToD”... that means that the game has simulation happening in real-time to define the actual weather / ToD... it is dynamic like real life.

PS. The whole debate about Forza 7 not having dynamic weather maybe deserves it own thread.

Yea ummm eurogamer review even says it's dynamic

"Dynamic weather and track conditions are in,...."

 

[KageMaru]

Ok guys so I downloaded the gts demo and let it play in attract mode for half an hour.

This thread had a good run.

Frankly, this has no reason to exist now.
I mean yeah if you focus on single aspects and tiny bits you might decide that this or that game does this particular thing better, and they all look good but when you take the whole picture into consideration GTS destroys anything else.
No amount of 4k and high Res textures can bring the other games into the same universe.

These guys'love for cars and aesthetics just shows in every car showcase, replay, picture, detail. They're just in a league of their own.

Sure, they take their time, and publishers need to grant other devs longer cycles, because dishing out games at this rate they'll never compete.

(Negatives: I'm getting micro stuttering during cars showcase and reflections seem to update at a lower refresh rate in-game)

Is the demo available now? I thought it was out on the 9th.

 

[Crayon]

Is the demo available now? I thought it was out on the 9th.

You can dl and launch it and it will run some replays for you.

 

[ethomaz]

Yea ummm eurogamer review even says it's dynamic

"Dynamic weather and track conditions are in,...."

"that weather, while improved from what was featured in Forza 6, doesn't allow for truly dynamic around the clock races, unfortunately..."

 

[Vicetrailia]

Well there is wind simulation in GT7, So i guess if the 2D paper trees don't move, they don't move.

 

[carsar]

What's the name of the graphic tech when leaves look so realistic - almost white under sunlight? Is it some kind of reflections, SSLR? Is SSS graphic effect here?
Does any other racing game have same effect? I guess only Driveclub's foliage looks same.
In reality. that effect is one of the main things I notice while driving. I don't bother about foliage's detalization, however the effect ,when the sun plays with leaves, is really beautiful

 

[Crayon]

What's the name of the graphic tech when leaves look so realistic - almost white under sunlight? Is it some kind of reflections, SSLR? Is SSS graphic effect here?
Does any other racing game have same effect? I guess only Driveclub's foliage looks same.
In reality. that effect is one of the main things I notice while driving. I don't bother about foliage's detalization, however the effect ,when the sun plays with leaves, is really beautiful

Sounds like a specular highlight.

 

[BigLee74]

Forza 7 is 'dynamic' enough. It obviously cycles its multiple configurable conditions to race duration, and so, no, you won't see a 24 hour cycle if you keep your car still, but is that really important? It serves its purpose for the 3 or 7 lap races generally run, and looks great (its photo-captured skies in particular looking amazing)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vdjLX1-CO9k

 

[Space_nut]

"that weather, while improved from what was featured in Forza 6, doesn't allow for truly dynamic around the clock races, unfortunately..."

Yea that's not in their review at all bud

Anyway aren't you the one who said gts "weather/Tod" changes in a race like Forza 7? Lmao you need to learn a bit more what dynamic means. Look at the definition of Dynamic and come back

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

As for the whole car debated and other bits.....



Link


Everybody can see it though, well most people anyway....


Moving on, there's somethings that he mentioned in his F7 review, which has been resonated by Eurogamer...Even before F7 launched I've mentioned them as well in some of the multiple threads we have going now in racing season

But it's this...


Link

Well, that whole quote really, especially most of the last paragraph is what I've noticed as well....Rain in F7 just looks like a prebaked layer on the tarmac surface, it's one of the main reasons I began questioning the dynamic nature of F7's weather and what T10 had pronounced. I've been looking at several races in F7 and the wet sheen all look the same, puddles all look the same, but what really gave it away was how the cars all plough the puddles with the same animation, same spray et al.... giving a vibe that puddles are also just a predetermined location on a wet track, perhaps every 15 feet or perhaps fixed on a track. It doesn't give the sense of dynamism...I had a perfect video illustrating just that, so I'll have to get it, but I'm sure any video of wet weather would suffice to clue anyone in....


Eh!....Eurogamer had similar sentiments on dynamic weather...


Link

We all kind of new Forza 7 didn't have a true dynamic cycle.

 

[carsar]

Sounds like a specular highlight.

As far as I understand, Project cars 2 has specular highlights too, however GTS takes that tech to the highest level I've never seen before. Maybe not only specular highlights are used for this effect.

 

[ethomaz]

Yea that's not in their review at all bud

Wut?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...something-few-other-driving-games-are-anymore

 

[DD]

Forza 7 is 'dynamic' enough. It obviously cycles its multiple configurable conditions to race duration, and so, no, you won't see a 24 hour cycle if you keep your car still, but is that really important? It serves its purpose for the 3 or 7 lap races generally run, and looks great (its photo-captured skies in particular looking amazing)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vdjLX1-CO9k

This is the kind of BS that is sad and funny. Who the F plays a racing game to stay still? Is it something to take into consideration unless you're a hater or if you want to make a cool time-lapse video? "Ooh, the weather doesn't change if I don't move!" So what?!

I got tired of Forza myself, I can see some design choices that I dislike in it, but come on, complaining that something don't work if you don't play the game the way it is intended is beyond ridiculous...

 

[onQ123]

Ok guys so I downloaded the gts demo and let it play in attract mode for half an hour.

This thread had a good run.

Frankly, this has no reason to exist now.
I mean yeah if you focus on single aspects and tiny bits you might decide that this or that game does this particular thing better, and they all look good but when you take the whole picture into consideration GTS destroys anything else.
No amount of 4k and high Res textures can bring the other games into the same universe.

These guys'love for cars and aesthetics just shows in every car showcase, replay, picture, detail. They're just in a league of their own.

Sure, they take their time, and publishers need to grant other devs longer cycles, because dishing out games at this rate they'll never compete.

(Negatives: I'm getting micro stuttering during cars showcase and reflections seem to update at a lower refresh rate in-game)

This is where things become tricky with the whole PS4/PS4 Pro & Xbox One/Xbox One X situation as far as being 4K representations of the base hardware. When games like GTS , Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man & so on push the base hardware & look good at 1080P then use whatever rendering trick for the 4K presentation on PS4 Pro it's not so easy to show how much better Xbox One X is when it's pushing Xbox One games to 4K. it will be 3rd party games that will show the difference when they are side by side but as far as showing how much better Xbox One X is over PS4 Pro that's going to be hard to do when games are made to push the PS4 base hardware but not made to push the Xbox One X hardware.

 

[l2ounD]

This is the kind of BS that is sad and funny. Who the F plays a racing game to stay still? Is it something to take into consideration unless you're a hater or if you want to make a cool time-lapse video? "Ooh, the weather doesn't change if I don't move!" So what?!

I got tired of Forza myself, I can see some design choices that I dislike in it, but come on, complaining that something don't work if you don't play the game the way it is intended is beyond ridiculous...

Dude you're in a graphics thread. Personally its fun to look deeper into systems these games use and to look at the details. Currently PCars2 is doing something no one else is doing and deserves praise. Calling what FM7 is doing the same as PCars2 being 'dynamic' just isnt true, thats not to say what FM7 is actually doing isnt impressive as well cause it does look good.

 

[Space_nut]

Wut?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...something-few-other-driving-games-are-anymore

That's not their review article

https://www.google.com/amp/www.eurogamer.net/amp/2017-10-04-forza-motorsport-7-review

 

[Tomeru]

That's not their review article

I love this thread.

 

[Grassy]

That was obvious and even EG said the same.

But some guys here says that dynamic means just the change of weather during the race even if pre-defined / baked.

That is not what most mean when says that a game has “dynamic weather and ToD”... that means that the game has simulation happening in real-time to define the actual weather / ToD... it is dynamic like real life.

PS. The whole debate about Forza 7 not having dynamic weather maybe deserves it own thread.

Once again, the actual definition of dynamic means to change or progress, and Forza 7's weather can change and progress throughout a race, which makes it dynamic...it's a similar system to what Horizon: Zero Dawn used and no-one had any issues with it did they?

I'm not surprised to see people in this thread trying to talk it down in any way they can though.

 

[KageMaru]

This is where things become tricky with the whole PS4/PS4 Pro & Xbox One/Xbox One X situation as far as being 4K representations of the base hardware. When games like GTS , Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man & so on push the base hardware & look good at 1080P then use whatever rendering trick for the 4K presentation on PS4 Pro it's not so easy to show how much better Xbox One X is when it's pushing Xbox One games to 4K. it will be 3rd party games that will show the difference when they are side by side but as far as showing how much better Xbox One X is over PS4 Pro that's going to be hard to do when games are made to push the PS4 base hardware but not made to push the Xbox One X hardware.

I don't think it's not going to be hard to see the difference at all. No different than how the difference was clear between the PS4 and XBO.

Once again, the actual definition of dynamic means to change or progress, and Forza 7's weather can change and progress throughout a race, which makes it dynamic...it's a similar system to what Horizon: Zero Dawn used and no-one had any issues with it did they?

I'm not surprised to see people in this thread trying to talk it down in any way they can though.

I honestly don't understand the focus on how the dynamic systems are implemented. Regardless of how it's accomplished, it's still additional work on the developers and system.

 

[ethomaz]

That's not their review article

https://www.google.com/amp/www.eurogamer.net/amp/2017-10-04-forza-motorsport-7-review

And? I said EG pointed it was not truly dynamic...

 

[Space_nut]

And? I said EG pointed it was not truly dynamic...

And I said EG said it's dynamic

 

[ethomaz]

And I said EG said it's dynamic

And EG said it is not truly dynamic... it is their word... not mine.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

That's not their review article

https://www.google.com/amp/www.eurogamer.net/amp/2017-10-04-forza-motorsport-7-review

I knew I subscribed to this thread for a reason.

 

[Space_nut]

And EG said it is not truly dynamic... it is their work... not mine.

It's dynamic which you kept saying it's not

 

[Inviusx]

Turn 10 have claimed that Forza has a dynamic weather system in place. This is, frankly, rubbish. From extensive racing, including spending hours on the same track, in the same race, watching time slowly tick by I know this to be a fact. For example, I was on Spa for one race and despite claims of dynamic weather, the clouds in the sky didn’t even move position from the tenth to the seventieth minute. Everything is predetermined and based on how far you’ve traveled in a race. A far cry from being dynamic.

These are the types of corners that get cut on a 2 year dev cycle.

 

[ethomaz]

It's dynamic which you kept saying it's not

Because it looks pre-defined/baked.

When you start the race everything is already set to when it will rain (or change the weather)... there is no dynamic, real time simulation, etc.

 

[Space_nut]

These are the types of corners that get cut on a 2 year dev cycle.

I guess some people don't know what dynamic mean. Just because you park your car on the track for hours or days and you don't see all four seasons happen doesn't mean it's not dynamic lol FM7 is about racing on the track and T10 made the TOD/weather to occur for the 5-10min races.

If you want a 24/7 day cycle Forza Horizon 4 will be for that

 

[D'ultimate]

These are the types of corners that get cut on a 2 year dev cycle.

So the players that like the game get to play 2 years of pretty good faux dynamic weather until fully dynamic is implemented. The horror!

Not saying I don't think it's dynamic but...

 

[Space_nut]

Because it looks pre-defined/baked.

When you start the race everything is already set to when it will rain (or change the weather)... there is no dynamic, real time simulation, etc.

Sorry to tell you but then every game isn't dynamic. Everything is "pre set" before a race occurs. No game is calculating real time atmospheric condensation occurances. It's all about devs creating a system of initiating conditions. If you learn about computer programming there is no such thing as random in any language as every programming language is never able to randomize anything

Again do you have the game? For T10 to "pre bake" all the conditions would take over 200gb of data which it doesn't. You can set percentages of rain for a race and the game makes it different every time. I've seen barely rain and small puddles and then later heavy rain with larger puddles at a different point in the race on the same track. On top of this I pick Day and every time the lighting is different as the game ramdomly picks a time during the Day

Do you have the game? Serious question

 

[ethomaz]

Sorry to tell you but then every game isn't dynamic. Everything is "pre set" before a race occurs. No game is calculating real time atmospheric condensation occurances. It's all about devs creating a system of initiating conditions. If you learn about computer programming there is no such thing as random in any language as every programming language is never able to randomize anything

GT5/GT6, DriveClub, pCARs 2 all calculate the weather in real-time... that is called Dynamic Weather System.

From DriveClub...

the game to make realistic transition from sunny to pouring rain depending on altitude, temperatures and nearby water basins.

The game perfectly manages to simulate wet surfaces depending on the amount of rainfall, an effect which can be seen at its best right down on the asphalt. Puddles will naturally form or disappear along with the warmth of the sun and yes, the game uses individual water droplets, both in the case of falling rain or those that form on the cars.

That what makes these system dynamic... GT5 simulates everything that is why anything (weather condition) can happen in any race making it unique.