Mysterious
Banned
If OP didn't lose any digital games he paid for (seeing as how it says his Nintendo Network ID was deleted), I don't have too much of a problem.
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Nintendo is removing games from my Wii U & 3DS
- Thread starter Team Top Hat
- Start date
- Status
Much like other claims in this thread, I don't know what to believe anymore.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
This is sad. Nintendo heads should feel bad.
Orniletter
Banned
Read the thread. Especially the last few pages.
KojiKnight
Member
This... this whole thing stinks, and when OP can't even keep his story straight it stinks more... but whatever, I think we've gotten about as much out of this thread as we're going to get. OP broke the rules, OP had his CN priviledges revoked anything beyond that is speculation at best unless the OP decides to add something more.
Going by the title of the thread, and by the title of the thread alone, I'd say that Nintendo is literally Hitler.
Clearly that's the issue here.
Nicktendo86
Member
OP has confirmed he has not, and has even kept rewards bought from his main account.
And you think no one out there ever bought a game just to get coins?
Nintendo has to pay shipping cost either way, it doesn't matter which address they ship to.
Since you are so much in favor of following the ToS, do you think Nintendo should also ban everyone that gives their CN codes, be it for coins or games, away?
Since Matt is supposedly on the forum it would be really easy for him to find the offending members and ban them. I think that would be really dumb and generate a lot of ill will, but hey, it's against the ToS so Nintendo should definitely do it. Also ban everyone that accepts the codes since they knowingly (should have read theToS, sucker) support fraudulent behavior.
That's the problem.
People keep poping in this thread without reading previous page and think that all the story is contained in the first post too. Which is not the case.
Then think Nintendo is evil.
The OP was selling rewards (wich is not the purpose of Nintendo system) with all the coins (12k) he got by filling sub accounts with multiple copies (we're talking like 4 or more accounts?) of games (maybe 100+) he bought then come here and whine about being banned after abusing the system. He got caught because he sent to a different adress the rewards for a buyer by using Nintendo. He probaly wouldn't got caught if he sent himself the rewards.
Either Nintendo accept this because the OP was still spending real money for them on real games or they keep him banned for abusing them.
That's for Nintedo to draw the line of their ToS not us.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Goodness the plot twists and turns (we still a modedit of title to make it clear only the illicitly purchased games were revoked). Makes me wonder what would have happened were the Canadian sub accounts not made (for sending Animal Crossing posters, see page 9 on 50ppp) as it almost sounds like that was the straw that broke the camels back as much as the abnormally high coin total (which is a flag in itself)...
...Which as Sixfortyfive said in their summary it is not normal behaviour.
...Which as Sixfortyfive said in their summary it is not normal behaviour.
Well, actually, we're very much free to judge Nintendo's policy (CN's ToS) as well as their execution of that policy in present instance. Although what the OP did is somewhat shifty, the fact remains that the games were all purchased with real money, and so some of the rather absurd comparisons people have made in this thread comparing his actions to piracy are beyond senseless.
Most companies I've worked with try to avoid taking drastic steps when a contract violation results in no harm, and resolve the situation amicably or just altogether ignore it. Here, Nintendo chose to take the most draconian option available to them. Between situations like this, the "Let's play" debacle, and their curious reluctance (or inability) to provide account-based DRM for digital purchases, It leaves serious doubt as to the competency of their management.
After all, just last week they thought it was a good idea to announce a major 3DS update just ahead of the holiday quarter that won't be launching in the largest gaming market during 2014? They just cut the last legs out of their mobile gaming product a couple of weeks before the largest smartphone upgrade cycle ever begins. These are all of the types of things that 5-10 years out will be case studies for MBA students on how a once enormously successful company can be drowned by systemic incompetence.
PotionBleue
Member
He posted the receipts after he was asked to?
But it does matter. When you signed up, you agreed to have products shipped to you. By having it shipped to someone else entirely, you're breaking the system. Nintendo doesn't CARE if you want to give away your posters or whatever. You can't resell them, but they don't care about the giving away. They care that THEY are the ones PAYING for the products to get to someone that isn't you. Having to pay for shipping either way is irreelvant - it costs more to ship to Canada, as an example, than the United States. Paying for shipping either way, you cost them more money to ship to someone in Canada.
The point is that the system CLEARLY states that can't have items shipped to anyone other than yourself. That's the HUGE red flag. Technically are you supposed to give away your CN games to others? Of course not - but it doesn't bother Nintendo for obvious reasons - it costs them nothing and they are still getting the feedback they wanted from the surveys.
Remember that this is a reward program for filling out surveys. Think about what is going on here that Nintendo DOESN'T want to happen:
1 person is filling out surveys for more than 2 copies of the same game. Nintendo doesn't want that. The feedback is pointless and redundant. You can argue the feedback is still valuable for digital compared to physical (which is why you can have two copies), but once you move beyond that are are filling out additional surveys for that 3rd or 4th copy - you're MAJORLY breaking TOS, and not because of products received, but by literally abusing their system for more coins. TTT has admitted to doing this over and over again - trying to buy extra copy of games to get more coins - but the coins are a reward for filling out surveys on the products you buy. It's not a reward for spending money - hence he is gaming the system by putting into it surveys that are basically USELESS to Nintendo. They skew the numbers in a way that doesn't fairly represent the userbase. It would be like Nintendo hosting a poll, taking it super serious for future games and advertising, but not caring that someone found a way to cheat the poll and get their same vote in 300 times. It skews the numbers.
In this, it's worse than a poll, because they are giving you something in return for that survey.
So there are many reasons he deserved to be banned and have games removed:
- He cheated the system to get more coins which allowed him to get more products and games.
- In cheating the system, he gave Nintendo falsified survey responses, which don't help Nintendo and is something they want to prevent.
- Because of cheating the system, he got a lot of coins that he used, over multiple accounts, to give products away to folks that weren't himself or family.
- In doing this, he's basically spending money to get coins to give free stuff out to friends.
He's basically being an idiot. He is breaking TOS is so many different ways that it's hilarious to compare it to someone giving away a free digital code to someone on neoGAF. Sure, does that break TOS? Technically, but his violations aren't just one one variety. It's several. Some of them a lot more severe than a digital code.
Agent Gibbs
Member
Wait wait wait...OP out of his own pocket, buys games for himself (multiple times), several family members and friends...full price games, as gifts,frequently, when the whim takes him....
that makes the amassing of worthless coins even more confusing....why? each game if you are lucky gets you about 1/10 of the reward points needed for a physical/digital reward, so he's spending thousands for unknown reasons to earm points to use on items costing a few dollars....
how about just buy the items off ebay for considerably less than purchasing multiple games!
i just don't understand this, i've bought games as gifts for my family before or peoples birthdays, but not at this level, to earn thousands of CN's you'd have to be buying multiple copies a month...it just does not compute unless you are a rich ass guy with some serious generosity erm problems? probably not the right choice of word there
setting up multiple club nintendo accounts for people without their knownledge...surely that actually falls very close to/fall into the catagory of actual criminal levels of fraud
You are knowingly setting up an account in someone else's name without thier knowledge for your own personal gain, and in some cases financial gain as you sell rewards...regardless of it being Club Nintendo that sounds like text book fraud.....if you are smart enough to be a "script kiddie" (to coin another posters phrase) and potentially develop script for your place of business to put 11 people out of work from your team of 15, then surely you know full well what fraud is, and how it works and realised your actions were fraudulent?
Its not out of the realms of possibility you didn't realise they were, but you have to forgive people for not quite believing that considering how the story has changed and consider what people have dug up about your previous posts
either way this is very murky...and i suppose begs the question, why are you so up in arms over 6 (was it 6) digital games you can no longer use, when it seems you have a library of over 120 games and can afford to buy multiple copies of games? it seems like what would be peanuts to you
that makes the amassing of worthless coins even more confusing....why? each game if you are lucky gets you about 1/10 of the reward points needed for a physical/digital reward, so he's spending thousands for unknown reasons to earm points to use on items costing a few dollars....
how about just buy the items off ebay for considerably less than purchasing multiple games!
i just don't understand this, i've bought games as gifts for my family before or peoples birthdays, but not at this level, to earn thousands of CN's you'd have to be buying multiple copies a month...it just does not compute unless you are a rich ass guy with some serious generosity erm problems? probably not the right choice of word there
setting up multiple club nintendo accounts for people without their knownledge...surely that actually falls very close to/fall into the catagory of actual criminal levels of fraud
You are knowingly setting up an account in someone else's name without thier knowledge for your own personal gain, and in some cases financial gain as you sell rewards...regardless of it being Club Nintendo that sounds like text book fraud.....if you are smart enough to be a "script kiddie" (to coin another posters phrase) and potentially develop script for your place of business to put 11 people out of work from your team of 15, then surely you know full well what fraud is, and how it works and realised your actions were fraudulent?
Its not out of the realms of possibility you didn't realise they were, but you have to forgive people for not quite believing that considering how the story has changed and consider what people have dug up about your previous posts
either way this is very murky...and i suppose begs the question, why are you so up in arms over 6 (was it 6) digital games you can no longer use, when it seems you have a library of over 120 games and can afford to buy multiple copies of games? it seems like what would be peanuts to you
Actually, you are supposed to only use coins for yourself (or other members of the family account) so even giving stuff away is against the ToS. OK, shipping to Canada is probably more expensive (I don't know what kind of contracts Nintendo has with the postal/courier service) but Nintendo as a company shouldn't care if the shipping cost to the ''wrong address'' is equal or lower than the shipping cost to the ''right address''. They are a company and in the end what they care about are $$$. So yeah, possibly incurring a minor loss due to larger shipping fees is certainly more desirable than losing a big costumer.
CN is a ploy to get people to buy games new and to make them feel more connected with Nintendo. There's two big pieces of evidence for this
-You get coins no matter how much effort you put into filling out surveys. I can go fill in a survey and answer all the questions with hofadhfvoadhsddfo or similar gibberish and I will still get the coins.
-There's nothing in the ToS about the process of filling out surveys.
If you think the bolded is a problem, then I hope you never run a company. What you are advocating is preventing people from legitimately spending money on your products. If you think that's a smart idea...
RoninChaos
Member
GTFO out with that shit. If he bought them legit then a company's stupid policies shouldn't fuck the consumer. Nintendo is behind everyone when it comes to this shit and shouldn't be defended.
I'll catch up on the rest of the thread but most TOS' are bullshit. They could out in their that said company gets your first born if you download a game and I'm sure some people in here would be like "well, it's in the TOS!" and hand the kid over.
You only read the title didn't you.
Hmmm
http://www.nintendo.com.au/club-nintendo-terms-and-conditions
You are prohibited from;
- registering more than once as a club Nintendo member;
- registering the same product more than once, unless expressly permitted to do so;
- registering a product that has not been lawfully purchased;
- registering a product that is not a product of Nintendo Australia Pty Ltd or an eligible third party game produced for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U;
- registering a second hand product;
- attempting to sell stars or transferring stars to another person;
- attempting to use stars other than for your personal use;
- using or promoting illicit technical aids in order to earn Stars, e.g. by creating, offering, promoting, distributing or using software programs or any other means that create an automatic online interaction with Nintendo.
Buying stars does not seem to be prohibited in any way shape or form. Only selling stars. And I think you have to actually use Club Nintendo to accept the ToS. In case someone never used Club Nintendo and sells all the stars, I think it would be fine, because that someone never agreed to the ToS in the first place.
It also just says "transferring stars", I'm not sure what they exactly mean by that. Giving them away? You don't give stars away, you give away the registration code. That's a difference.
But according to this list I see all sorts of OP ToS violations. "attempting to use stars other than for your personal use", etc.
I don't know how you came up with "fraudulent behaviour". In case someone gives codes away, that are from legally purchased games, then there simply was no fraud.
Actually, it seems giving away codes for free is fine:
http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2089/p/52
http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2089/p/52
All of the above and to top it off, coins come in large part from surveys which are only allowed once per person. I don't know why you needed so many coins, but no you didn't earn them inside the system, you gamed it for 1000s of coins by retaking surveys, it's similar to when origin had an issue where it was giving away games for free and the games were taken back by EA, the one time EA didn't do something evil.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Thing to remember it is a different club (American club has completely different rewards and pricing) so would have somewhat different terms (though the foundations should be similar). I certainly wasn't aware of the second hand product violation. I guess it can't really be enforced.
The NA ToS are a bit different:
You may not:
-register more than once as a Club Nintendo member;
-register the same Nintendo product more than once, unless expressly permitted by us;
-register a product which was not lawfully purchased;
-make use of Coins in any way other than for your own or members of your Family -Account's personal use -- in particular, you may not sell, buy or auction Coins or transfer Coins to another account;
-use or promote illicit technical aids in order to earn Coins, for example, to create, offer, distribute or use software programs or other means that create an automatic online interaction with Nintendo; or
-sell rewards.
It still does say coins instead of registration codes, so that may be a loophole.
Still, giving away codes for downloadable games is still against ToS.
Nope, the system doesn't have to be associated with CN but you must still only use coins for yourself (or members of the family account). So redeeming the coins for a download code for someone else is against the ToS.
Yep, took all of the words right out of my mouth. It doesn't matter that Nintendo is spending the same amount of money either way - he's still cheating the system in a way that was never intended.
And yes, you're right, technically giving away CN codes breaks the ToS. But also, no one has gotten reprimanded simply for using a CN code that wasn't theirs. TTT broke the ToS in so many ways by doing stuff that Nintendo very obviously never intended people to do with CN. It's not a fair comparison.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
I'd love to see a pic of TTT's collection, must be a sight to see with all those 1st party Nintendo games in 4x copies
No, it's not. I called Nintendo Customer Support to ask them that exact question, and they said it was fine. If you notice, it says the that coins are only to be used for the owner of the account and family members, but rewards just can't be sold. Therefore, giveaways of coins would be an issue, but giveaways of rewards is not, which is what Nintendo Customer Support confirmed to me. If you do give away a reward, probably want to keep a link to the giveaway around to prove it wasn't sold, if for some reason Nintendo ever needed to investigate your account and the question came up, though.
No, as confirmed directly by Nintendo Customer Support.
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Yeah, I don't see anywhere in the ToS where it forbids you to give away codes for free.
It's amazing how this thread did a complete 180. The OP is a bit stubborn in that he doesn't admit he's in the wrong for violating the ToS. It sucks he lost those downloadable games, but he did mess up and it's his fault.
However, one thing bugs me, considering he has done several giveaways on GAF, had no one ever thought this would have happened at some point?
However, one thing bugs me, considering he has done several giveaways on GAF, had no one ever thought this would have happened at some point?
Oh, my mistake read the bit about the "network ID used to purchase" and assumed he was out of games he bought, not games he redeemed through the club nintendo coin system(which I am not familiar with). Still this seems like a lame TOS.
Nintendo removed the Club Nintendo rewards, not the actual games that he had bought. Otherwise, that would be illegal. I dont know where this confusion is coming from.
Brainiac 8
Member
You might want to do that before coming in and commenting...
Nostremitus
Member
He was using Nintendo as a free distribution center for their products he was selling to other people. He was changing his mailing address do that they'd ship rewards to his customers. Essentially selling Nintendo's property as ownership never passed to him and scamming them to pay the shipping for his reselling business.(Speaking specifically about the physical rewards)
Thunderstorm910
Neo Member
no pls.
How about you read the entire thread first and get the whole story before getting on your high horse and acting that Nintendo is in the wrong here.
Because had you did that you would have learned that OP tried to scam the system thus causing Nintendo to terminate his account and take away his free game.
No, it's not. I called Nintendo Customer Support to ask them that exact question, and they said it was fine. If you notice, it says the that coins are only to be used for the owner of the account and family members, but rewards just can't be sold. Therefore, giveaways of coins would be an issue, but giveaways of rewards is not, which is what Nintendo Customer Support confirmed to me. If you do give away a reward, probably want to keep a link to the giveaway around to prove it wasn't sold, if for some reason Nintendo ever needed to investigate your account and the question came up, though.
No, as confirmed directly by Nintendo Customer Support.
That's good news then.
Not at all. There is also no evidence the games he paid for have been affected. Seriously, he admitted he isn't even buying games to play them, but buying them to fill out surveys to get more coins to use on items that he is, it seems more often than not, not even getting for himself or a family member.
He's being idiotic. None of this has to do with buying games - Nintendo isn't even deterring buying games in this case. What they are deterring is fraudulent surveys. Does it say that in the TOS? Of course not - because what you need to do in order to fill out more than 2 surveys is already against the TOS. They don't need to put in another line to talk about the surveys when the thing to get extra surveys is already there.
If that makes any sense to you. What I am referring too is that is this particular case - the guy isn't buying games because he wants them. He wants the coins which, ironically, he isn't typically using for himself. The user is being dumb, especially considering he can buy most of these things for cheaper than the games he is repeatedly buying. This isn't about deterring sales and turning away one of your best customers, it sounds like they are doing this customer a favor. He's being dumb. He's buying more copies of games than he reasonably should be, he's claiming points for games that are not his (think about like this - my mom buys a Mario game for me, my sister, and my cousin. Instead of letting us get the coins - she opens every single game and claims the coins for herself).
This isn't about screwing over a loyal consumer. It's about this particular consumer being overly idiotic in his attempts to buy games and claim more coins that he is allowed to claim. Everything else that happens after is just gravy and adding to the multiple offenses that ultimately lead to the ban.
Exactly. Glad someone gets it. If he had just given away CN codes - no biggie. People trying to argue and defend the guy just are losing ground to stand on. You have to look BEYOND the original post of this thread and you quickly see that it isn't just the one offense, or many offenses of a single type, but rather several different aspects of the TOS he is breaking. Nintendo may be more lenient than they should be (though, who is complaining?), but in this case, TTT broke the TOS many times over in several different fashions. I mean, this isn't just that he gave away CN games. It isn't just that he had physical products shipped to others. It isn't just that he is managing 3 club Nintendo accounts (also against TOS), it isn't just that he is working around the system to register more than two copies of a single game... it's all of the above. Any single offense and it's probably nothing. Combine it all, and the guy is all but ignoring the entirety of the TOS and going out of his way to do so at that. Why? Anyone's guess. Only he knows why that monetary commitment seems worthwhile.
Is Nintendo alienating this ONE customer? Sure, but this one customer isn't being punished for spending money. They are being punished for how they attempted to cheat the Club Nintendo system with the EXCUSE that "hey, I paid for it all".
I bring this back to a mother argument I used earlier. My mother buys 3 copies of a game for differnet people during the holidays. Instead of leaving the codes, she opens the games and registers them all to herself on two or 3 different accounts with the justification "I paid for it". Even if say, my sister wasn't going to register and get teh coins, it's still her choice and my mother in this case removed that choice. So, in theory, you could argue he is also screwing over the folks he is buying games for too - not giving them a chance to get the full benefit of their gift.
The OP's first post raised some questions, but since then, it's been all down hill. Nintendo isn't in the wrong here, no matter how much people want to try and claim that they are.
Mysterious
Banned
wat
Hero of Legend
Member
This has been mentioned already, but... what does the niece and nephew have to say amongst all this? I would hope you don't deprive them of Nintendo games in the future if they still want to play them, that'd be so wrong to do, why should they suffer?
Same goes for the whole coin thing, don't they deserve rewards as much as anyone else? If it's their coins, shouldn't they have first say? If they say "sure, you can have them!", then that's fine! But I've noticed that these two have had little to no mention here aside from being two people you also buy copies for.
I just hope they're happy and not in this mess with you, as I said, they shouldn't suffer.
And of course what the hell is up with the *counts* four other accounts? Why you need SEVEN accounts I will never know.
Oh and...
ANYONE EVER HEAR OF SHARING GAMES?!
Unless there's an issue where naturally everyone wants their own copy (could also be due to them all being in different homes), would it not be a vastly cheaper method of just sharing one copy amongst the family? Not like you'll all play it at the same time in single-player if you know what I mean.
Same goes for the whole coin thing, don't they deserve rewards as much as anyone else? If it's their coins, shouldn't they have first say? If they say "sure, you can have them!", then that's fine! But I've noticed that these two have had little to no mention here aside from being two people you also buy copies for.
I just hope they're happy and not in this mess with you, as I said, they shouldn't suffer.
And of course what the hell is up with the *counts* four other accounts? Why you need SEVEN accounts I will never know.
Oh and...
ANYONE EVER HEAR OF SHARING GAMES?!
Unless there's an issue where naturally everyone wants their own copy (could also be due to them all being in different homes), would it not be a vastly cheaper method of just sharing one copy amongst the family? Not like you'll all play it at the same time in single-player if you know what I mean.
This also doesn't say that giving away Club Nintendo registration codes would be against ToS.
I'm pretty sure that Nintendo Ninja Lawyers wrote the ToS and not some intern. Which means it's intentional. It even says "you may not ... transfer coins to another account.". Which means the coins need to be redeemed to one account first for this to be possible. Otherwise the coins are simply not on anyone's account.
It even makes sense. They could not write "must be redeemed by the original buyer", because this would fuck over children+teenagers, that get such games as a gift.
Even if you just assume that they "wanted" to write that you must not give away Club Nintendo codes. First of all - people, who give away the codes most of the time don't care about them at all, which means they don't have a Club Nintendo account, which means they have not accepted the ToS. So who is left? The one, that received the codes for free on GAF and enters them. Does it say "accept codes from other people"? No it doesn't. Even those ToS say that you must not buy them. Again, ninja lawyers wrote this. I'm pretty sure that they thought it through.
The whole paragraph even ends with:
"misused Club Nintendo" Not misused Club Nintendo codes. They are talking about the Club Nintendo website. The Club Nintendo service. And they also say "coins you have earned". By what? By entering Club Nintendo registration codes and filling our surveys and by buying games digitally and getting coins that way.
Hmm, this one doesn't even make sense. Let's assume OP is actually "rich and white". Then I simply don't understand why he had to use Club Nintendo as his personal courier service for his customers. Why not simply get the rewards and then forward them manually? Was that too much work? He could have asked his customers to pay for postage. I don't understand that at all.
Sure he did wrong and violated ToS...
but why the fuck now do we have to bash OP?
"Probably some rich white kid... [loss rewards] are peanuts to you"
"On the verge of committing fraud"
"That's what you get"
"Manipulative"
And these aren't even the ironic posts.
Seriously read what some of you write before you post.
but why the fuck now do we have to bash OP?
"Probably some rich white kid... [loss rewards] are peanuts to you"
"On the verge of committing fraud"
"That's what you get"
"Manipulative"
And these aren't even the ironic posts.
Seriously read what some of you write before you post.
People are bashing the OP because he has a history of complaining about Nintendo in the monthly Downloads thread, as well as proving he is willing to fuck over other people for his benefit:
At this point, all I want to know is why TTH went to those lengths to get so many coins. The economics of it doesn't make sense, so it sounds more like an addictive compulsion when he is e.g. buying games simply for the Club Nintendo coins.
StreetsAhead
Member
He signed up for Club Nitendo as another person without that person's knowledge or consent. This is by his own admission. Are we supposed to ignore facts in the hopes of sparing his feelings?
DanteGhost
Member
I never thought of it that way, but NA is Nintendo biggest market. Really interesting. Let's see how it ends up performing.
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