LifeBrandRobot
Member
Game needs a hard mode now 
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Nioh Thread: Defy Death
- Thread starter Kudo
- Start date
The out of breath mechanic was a big part of forcing you to master the ki gauge use.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Game needs a hard mode now
i don't know Gwyndolin Cinder has died plenty of times in his stream right now
Hentailover
Member
Game needs a hard mode now
I'd argue, the removal of the primary feature that people abused makes the game harder, not easier.
"out of breath" part however is a different issue entirely.
Fushichou187
Member
The Alpha was such a great surprise in terms of gameplay. I poured a bunch of hours into getting past those bosses. Looking forward to getting my ass handed to me again and again and again. Even more interested to compare how it plays with the gameplay changes they stated they were making after the Alpha.
Yep and that's probably why they took the ki refill mechanic.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
I'm just salty cuz I really enjoyed the stamina management in the last game. No other game I've played has given me an "oh shit I fucked up" feeling like running out of stamina in the first game.
Jimmyfenix
Member
if you the mark of the conqueror you can skip to the new area
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Ket recovery dodge in the high stance now O.O
The out of breadth mechanic was an added penalty when you've already been penalized for using up all your stamina. (Lack of dodge/block/etc). It was an added annoyance to create artificial difficulty. It didn't make the game more challenging a la souls series, it made the the game feel cheaper a la terrible camera work in ninja gaiden 2. This mentality is the same reason they got rid of the key pulse in the low stance, it promoted noobish play and made the game easier, rather than fairer.
Great change imo
LifeBrandRobot
Member
No key puls on low stance dodge anymore?
Guess it was too OP.
It's in high stance now.
Hentailover
Member
Doesn't that make game easier? Like, before, the entire game plan was "use highs tance, switch using a rather timing sensitive trick to dodge and regain stamina, continue"
Now timing sensitive switching is not required... or is it balanced by slow dodge itself?
Jimmyfenix
Member
on gwyns stream he did the out of breath mechanic
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
There was nothing inherently wrong with the out-of-breath mechanic initially having existed. Being mindful over stamina increased the level of finesse required to play well and more importantly, lead to an engaging gameplay loop by encouraging players to learn how to properly recover their Ki. Now it's just a "whatever" moment if you're being inconsiderate.
Low stance ki strikes may have been overpowered, but they could've balanced it out better than outright removing a tactile (unlike durability) feature. Less damage per consecutive attack or just lower damage for the stance so that its main focus would be for quickly interrupting enemy attacks or something.
lord_of_flood
Member
Really? That's an interesting change. Makes sense to me though. High stance is a million times slower than low stance, so giving it the ki recovery dodge is actually a better idea balance wise. If you learned how to proficiently use the ki recovery dodge in low stance during the alpha, you were close to being untouchable because you could attack and dodge incredibly quickly. Since it's on the high stance now (which has more start-up and recovery frames on attacks), it's actually a lot harder to abuse.
Bloodporne
Member
It's still in apparently but only appears to be in high stance now? Haven't seen mid stance.
It looks like you can also Ki pulse dodge in high stance only.
EDIT: Not sure if I'm right now, will let Gwyndolin Cinder answer later I guess? At first it appeared that way in the stream then when he did it again to try out he didn't lose his breath? Certain conditions I guess?
You can also still move around in Dark Souls when you're out of stamina, you just can't take any actions. The out of breath mechanic meant you were supposed to focus a lot more on keeping your ki gauge from getting completely emptied. Also the Ki Pulse in low stance promoted noobish play? Some of the best players were using it in combination with the other stances to pull off gameplay that looked more akin to Ninja Gaiden than Dark Souls.
I preferred the idea of a restrained character action game instead of what seems to be more and more like a Dark Souls standard.
You already get penalized for recklessly using your stamina, which will require you to manage it while playing. You don't need to pause the game for 2 seconds to reinforce that point. It breaks flow, something this game and games like it (Onimusha, ninja gaiden, soulsborne) had done well.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Yea the dodge is slow is hell so you wont be able to do the same chains as in low stance.
In a game where you can refill huge chunks of your stamina instantly after each attack, it was definitely needed. This isn't Souls or MH where you have to wait it out and the more stamina you use the more you have to wait.
Begaria
Member
Hmm, really?
Low stance is still there, what's gone is low stance dodge filling up your stamina the same way key pulsses does. No more infinite attack, attack, attack, attack, dodge, repeat.Unbelievable, am I hearing that stam full depletion punishment is gone? And low stance is gone?
Please more updates
On the plus, the frame rate is looking much better.
Did it break the flow, though? What I liked about the zero stamina penalty is that every regular enemy was governed by it along with the player. Just as much as they can take advantage of you for reaching it, they are just as susceptible to it and it added a nice bit of strategy to how you are supposed to act and react, since the AI works the same way. It helped separate it a bit further from Souls, and I think getting rid of it as far as the player is concerned is a bit of a disappointing turn to following the leader when the genre could stand for some new blood.
Bloodporne
Member
Low stance is still there, what's gone is low stance dodge filling up your stamina the same way key pulsses does. No more infinite attack, attack, attack, attack, dodge, repeat.
On the plus, the frame rate is looking much better.
I think in theory this kind of kills the crazy character action combo chains people were pulling off, although who knows, you may be able to do it chaining another way now if high stance has a proper Ki pulse dodge.
SkylineRKR
Member
High stance evade is harder to pull off so it might be a good risk reward?
No grinding, no armor and no super moves. Its probably easier if you use those things.
No grinding, no armor and no super moves. Its probably easier if you use those things.
People aint happy until its impossibru.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
It has MP. Souls like coop.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Like Sayad already said, none of those games allowed you to burst refill your stamina to the same extent as Ni-oh if at all. It was a severe enough punishment to keep the player pro-active as opposed to waiting it out like the Souls games.
Bloodporne
Member
My thoughts as well. The enemies definitely still run out of breath routinely.
It works a lot like Dark Souls, in that it's primarily a single player game with some social elements and co-op functionality. It doesn't appear that direct PvP is going to be in, but they do have a kind of ghost uploading upon death that players can summon for a quick duel.
TimeEffect
Member
Im guessing pulse was taken out of low stancd because they removed durability. So people would just spam low stance, wouldnt they?
Jimmyfenix
Member
Gwyn Pls
wreck this fool
wreck this fool
Nice!
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Hopefully this sells well considering the changes to make the game more mass appealing.
The development team has a lot of confidence game if they're releasing two demos, one from a very early and rough state. Most developers don't even risk releasing a demo at all for a single player game because of the fear that people will play the demo, dislike the game (even if its because of an early state and not reflective of the final game) and bad word of mouth will kill sales. So yeah they seem to be very confident.
Yu Narukami
Member
Can you show us some of your gameplay?
You DL it already?
E_Darkness
Member
I really hope the beta hasn't ruined anything. I loved the alpha for this. Eagerly awaiting this to hit up the UK store.
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