oh fucking hell bro, you're an amalgamation of everything they subconsciously hate/envy.
keep your eyes up for the black van!
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NYPD kill a man after he breaks up a fight between others.
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oh fucking hell bro, you're an amalgamation of everything they subconsciously hate/envy.
keep your eyes up for the black van!
CornBurrito
Member
Clearly cops should be like Oblivion guards. Argue with them and "THEN PAY WITH YOUR LIFE"
Devolution
Member
I hope people who think you shouldn't be able to talk to a cop about why they're arresting you love police states.
Words can hurt! Obviously the cops needed to defend themselves.
Breathing while black.
I doubt that Dante dude is coming back to the thread.
Nig.. I mean "thugs".
CornBurrito
Member
#notallpolicestates
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Yes because that's clearly the course of action police officers should take at all times.
It's on the top of my to do list if I should ever visit the USA
Well lets offer it up.
You're getting choked for no reason, do you dare say that you can't breathe, or do you let death wash over you like a warm blanket? You should do everything an officer tells you to do, including not resting a choke hold. Remember, if people didn't resist, they wouldn't be murdered by the police.
Reflexes be damned.
They really shouldn't, but unfortunately they don't seem to agree.
Qwell
Member
Since I have seeing this pop up a few times, again ... not saying he deserved this, or even that the laws are just (personally think all drugs should be legal and taxed) ... but if we are going to discuss, perhaps the facts would be good.
From the earlier linked article
"Police officials said Garner had a history of arrests for selling untaxed cigarettes. Cops said they observed him selling his wares Thursday on Bay St. and moved in for an arrest."
followed by
"Records show Garner was due in court in October on three Staten Island cases, including charges of pot possession and possession or selling untaxed cigarettes."
source
the arrest was not due to fight that he had broken up.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
FUCK the NYPD
They always throw dirt on dead people when they fuck up and kill someone like this.
They always throw dirt on dead people when they fuck up and kill someone like this.
The problem is not the arrest. It's the fact that the police killed him. Don't change the subject
Police aren't allowed to use chokeholds.
What is your point besides smearing a dead negro and go with the narrative of the department trying to cover its ass from litigation for yet another death on their watch.
Really, what is your point.
Reminder, Police can't execute people. Any of those offenses require being strangled to death? What is your point.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
I'm sorry but if the NYPD really has so little to do that they can afford to send what..half a dozen to 1 dozen officers, to arrest/subdue/murder a man for allegedly selling tax-free cigarettes then they clearly have too many police officers and should start laying them off.
Would you all at least try thinking before making a post? lol
The above is factually incorrect. What is the point of debating when you are saying things in this thread that just isn't true or exaggerated? Besides, none of the countries that you will likely use to compare to U.S, is similar.
I see too many posts focused in generalizations and downright ignorant information based on bad perception of the scenario and emotionally driven.
Not many even bother to find out all the information of the issue before posting and then finding out they are wrong.
Devolution
Member
Oh a tax cheat.
Don't have many of those in NY.
Don't have many of those in NY.
Shit like that generates revenue for the city.
Please enlighten us. It's not like this thread actually contains statistics proving that the police system in the US is broken, so go ahead and prove it once and for all.
Yes, please.. continue TarNaru.
Black-Wind
Member
Good people, bad people, doesn't fucking matter.
America jails more people than any other country already so there's deep rooted problems going on here with our law enforcement and jailing system..
Thank you.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Canada is right above us. What are the big differences that makes Canada so much more peaceful compared to what's happening near the border in Detroit or NYC?
Qwell
Member
My point was I was seeing post after post with people saying he was being talked to and arrested for nothing, that is the only thing I was trying to clear up. Sorry for trying to answer the question that I quoted in my post.
Again, I don't agree with the laws, I don't think he should have had those cases against him the first place, but there are a lot of laws I don't agree with.
Never said the thread didn't contain it, I said most posts are made in ignorance, highly exaggerated, and emotionally driven. This goes for both sides of this argument. As a neutral reader I can see where most of you come to your misunderstandings in certain threads.
I despise generalizations from every party and I find exaggerated posts like the one I quoted to be distasteful and not realistic.
At any rate, I do believe U.S police systems can be due with some major policy changes like stop-and-frisk and quota policies.
I am not entering into this debate. It is obvious from what I read where it will lead if I played devil's advocate, I wouldn't even be debating about this specific case anyways. I have concluded it would be a waste of time for me, but I enjoy reading threads nonetheless, just wish more substantial arguments were made.
Your post pretty much says nothing. Why don't you black up your empty claims like others already have?
Well, according to the stats the generalizations are closer to the truth than the opposite, so your anger is misplaced. And nothing in the post you quoted is factually wrong. Feel free to prove it wrong.
And that there are emotional responses when cops can kill an innocent, likely with no repurcussions, is to be expected, no?
TrueGrime
Member
This is fucked up. Once the cops put their hands on you there's no way you can defend yourself. I can't even imagine what if feels like to not be able to breathe while a handful of large guys are on top of you.
Unfortunately, this makes the cops jump him even more viciously. When you cant breathe you're going to try to thrash around to get into a comfortable position. A cop telling you to put your hands behind your back while you're being asphyxiated when his knee is on your face will make no difference to them. They see your struggling as non-compliance.
Even though all this he managed to gasp out to tell them he couldn't breathe. What a fucking shame.
Unfortunately, this makes the cops jump him even more viciously. When you cant breathe you're going to try to thrash around to get into a comfortable position. A cop telling you to put your hands behind your back while you're being asphyxiated when his knee is on your face will make no difference to them. They see your struggling as non-compliance.
Even though all this he managed to gasp out to tell them he couldn't breathe. What a fucking shame.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It feels so bad when you start to realize they had no empathy for the guy. They likely did not see him as an equal human being to them, or they didn't see him as a human being at all. They could not understand being in the same situation and reacting the same way.
All I am saying is that this thread can use more actual substance in it's posts and less of what I said. There is nothing for me to need to back up... I read all pages, do the same if you want to see where I am coming from.
It is true that emotional responses are expected, but not in debates. You use factual information to get your point across, not exaggerate and state words of ignorance.
Statistics don't aid generalizations, there is a reason generalizations are not tolerated. If I was using this against minorities, I would be torn a new one by posters here, so don't try to excuse such behavior.
You said "in almost every country, it would be a national scandal for a cop to kill someone". Close to 200 countries in this world, most not 1st world and many in dysfunction. The way you word it is that an extreme majority is like that, which isn't true. May be semantics on my part arguing about it though. If you want me to truly prove this, it would take time to get all that information.
As I said above, I do not disagree that U.S can use a different policy when it comes to police.
I find it intellectually dishonest that you have such an issue with generalizing police, and the concepts of exaggeration. Enough to 'lol' a post, yet you can't see how serious the issue is with police actually murdering people. You can't figure that people are speaking of the trend of bad police. The type of police that murder people.
You take it to heart and think you have to defend the police reputation. The police have ruined their reputation themselves. Because of murdering people and the lack of punishment.
You have nothing of value to contribute to this thread outside of wagging your fingers at generalization and exaggeration, as if that is what the entirety of the condemnation against the police force is. Thanks for educating all of us on what it means to speak in general terms. It will be a valued lesson here and forever. With one note though, its not needed. As most people learn what generalizing is in when you're a child, and unless you say that you are specifically including every single instance of a subject, then it is to be taken in a general way. But thankfully, the NYPD who has paid millions of tax payer dollars settling abuse lawsuits, wont be tarnished in this thread because of people saying harsh things about them in a general way.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
How many people do these paid professionals given weapons and armor have to murder before it's okay to think that the police are fucked up?
TrueGrime
Member
Yeah. I don't think they meant to kill the guy but their actions caused it and they should be held accountable.
On the flip side of things the man could have helped himself by not initially resisting the officers. You're being suspected of some type of crime, you're surrounded by officers, and you're loud and angry. If you are this guy and you try to fight then you're going to lose in some way. Every time.
In the name of the cops, they should have ceased their aggression the first time they had positive control. It almost looks as if some cops were trying to push the choke-holder away or tell him that he was down. They then ignored his pleas.
My concern in this whole thing is the disregard that cops can have for your health during their retraining procedure.
What if you break both my hands when you rustled me to the ground, tell me to put my hands behind my back, and when I can't do that because I'm injured THEN WHAT WILL YOU DO? Continue to restrain or ignore and further injure me.
I didn't actually say anything, I was merely agreeing with the post you were quoting. So if you have issues with a specific wording, take it up with the poster.
That said, you can bet that in most civilized countries it would be a national scandal if the police force was taped murdering an innocent man the way they did here. And it's not like this is an isolated incident either. If you want to be technical and say this argument only counts if it is true for at least 75% of the 196 countries on the world, you're just being purposely pedantic, which is also not exactly great for a debate.
It seems you're just arguing for argument's sake, not because you have anything to add.
You're posts have no more or less substance than the generalizations that irk you so much, or are more valuable than genuine emotional responses.
If your biggest problem with this whole issue is a perceived over-generalization of the american policeforce rather than the actual murder of a human being by supposed lawmen, I suggest you get your priorities straight.
not psycho
Member
For one thing, the US is the worst developed nation on Earth when it comes to inequality.
34th place out of 35 developed nations on child poverty. Dead last among these nations on income inequality (slightly better than Rwanda, but worse than Iran and Nigeria, and far worse than India, let alone Canada). Nearly last again in social mobility (beating out the UK and Italy, but almost twice as bad as Canada).
That's a recipe for a permanent economic underclass. And if there also happens to be systematic racism on top of it, police will believe (and usually be correct) that they can get away with anything on those targets. So the bad ones, and the scared ones, will be much more violent and likely to go after or kill the people that they feel they have impunity to do so with. If the danger level was exactly the same (I haven't watched the video, but seems to be almost no danger this time) in a situation with someone they did not associate, on sight, with a permanent underclass with protections eroded by racism, they would probably not act the same way.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Barely any black folk in Canada..can't compare..the apes ain't running the zoo! Or so I'm told that's the reason by many..
Try not to read too much into my post, I have an issue with generalizing anyone or group unless the group was obviously radical. Generalizations don't help in debates, why should it be allowed for one thing which isn't black and white when it isn't for other things? I am just calling it out as it should in threads, it leads to rhetoric sometimes.
One doesn't need to be overly specific to keep from generalizing. I am not a jerk just looking out for anyone that leaves out slight generalizations in their comment. Ones who specifically are, are different.
I already said I agree with most here that the system needs a change. Places with high crime rate, which also happen to be poverty areas seem to have a cops vs us mentality.
I did read the thread; there's plenty of substance. I think you're being dishonest if you choose to single out the (rightfully) emotional posts and ignore the others that verify that systemic abuse and racism by the police is a real problem. We're discussing the cut-and-dry matter of what happened to that man -- we're not having an actual debate with rules here.
Miles Quaritch
Member
That chokehold was brutal. Will surely have had a major impact on his ability to breathe and then they dog pile him when he's hardly moving on the ground.
How can that level of violence be justified?
The chokehold especially. It looked like the cop was trying to kill him. The amount of pressure he seems to be applying is insane. It can only a few seconds to cut off circulation to the brain and he's holding on for a good thirty seconds with seemingly as much pressure as he can apply.
Terrifying.
How can that level of violence be justified?
The chokehold especially. It looked like the cop was trying to kill him. The amount of pressure he seems to be applying is insane. It can only a few seconds to cut off circulation to the brain and he's holding on for a good thirty seconds with seemingly as much pressure as he can apply.
Terrifying.
When was the official debate of this thread sanctioned? Because you're just replying to people venting frustration at the broken system, for obvious reasons. Instead of understanding those obvious reasons, the frustrations, and the general way human beings express themselves, you do very much come off as looking out for anyone that is generalizing. As if its against the rules of conduct for this official debate that isn't happening.
Here we have a man that was strangled to death, due to police actions. Specifically forbidden (choke holds) and the only content you have to offer is a lesson in generalization and exaggeration. Now, you're doing this for two reasons. 1. You honestly think adults don't know what you have to say. 2. You don't like it when people generalize police. I can only speak for myself, and generally speak about others, but im sure people grasp the concepts of labeling the entire police force to be horrible. Why do you feel that you are needed to fill that hole of misunderstanding about generalization?
A thread where the generalization is true, with yet another police officer killing a person, isn't the place to cheerlead the concept that all police aren't bad, as if this isn't a known thing.
The poster talking about why dorner is a hero, sure. Target him. But not "american cops are scum." or "fucking nypd." etc, because these comments are specifically talking about the type of cops associated with the OP, as well as the police that contribute to the system of protection over civilian life. As I mentioned earlier, my dad is a retired officer. I don't think for one second that "THAT GUY IS TALKING ABOUT MY DAD!" when he says "FUCK THE COPS!" in a thread where a police officer claims he mistook his gun for a tazer and executes a man in front of everyone on a train platform. I don't feel the urge to rush out with my armor to make it abundantly clear that every single instance of a police officer doesn't do this, because the fact of the matter, as you've said, is that the entire system is broken. The police problem is one part of it, But it is a problem that you can discuss in a general way. Its nation wide. And this is what people are speaking to in general terms. I know you understand this. So why choose this to be a topic of the debate?
I've seen your post, I've seen your predecessors posts with the same identical content of trying to highlight people generalizing more so than the egregious murders committed. The only content or discussion added is something that is generally understood while communicating.
You agree the system is broken. This is why people generalize the system as broken. As well as the problem with the police department. It really doesn't take much for an individual like you to say to yourself "I know they aren't talking about every single police officer thats ever existed or that currently exists." What is the problem with this logic? What is the harm that happens when people generalize a broken system? Do they end up less/more murdered by police? What is the ill effects that you perceive to happen?(If you think people genuinly don't understand what generalizing is OR if you have a problem with people generalizing specifically police.) Is it worth all of this discussion, when we have the police killing someone going on in the background?
You're fully aware of how people communicate both online, and in real life. We don't need disclaimers for general comments. If clarification is needed, you should ask. Instead of posting education about generalizing in a thread where some man lost his life to police violence again.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Lethal violence was used by a group of 6+ men to subdue a man who was not violent and had not yet missed his court date for alleged nonviolent crimes. There was no urgency here, or need for violence.
My bad, don't know why I thought you were, GaimeGuy. Well if you say civilized countries it makes sense. There are already enough people arguing against police in this thread, you don't need my help. I am for change in policing policies.
I said this in my 2nd post in this thread:
So yes you are correct, I am arguing a moot point, because people will do so in every thread no matter what. Maybe I just overestimated neogaf as a serious forum in debates like this...
I shall go back to reading and just ignore what I deem as annoying posts.
SniperHunter
Banned
fucking cops
Noted, I agree, I am in the wrong here. I am arguing semantics and shall refrain from doing so since I caused more damage here than the posts I was talking about.
Just so you know, I don't say "lol" to mock people post, it is a habit of mines to put at the end of a sentence in hopes to make it more... friendly. Shall use smiley face next time
It's this simple.
Are too many police officers in USA involved in travesties like this? Yes.
That these things happen is never OK, no matter what the fraction of the force it is. This is not the first time this has happened in the US. Demand that your police functions better, or this won't be the last time this happens. That's what's simple.
Was going to say the same thing. Pretty blatant racism when people like to dismiss the safety of Canada because Canada has far less black people. America's safety problem has to do with the fact that everybody is poor as fuck and the worship of violent gun culture from pretty much all groups.
I only read the first 2 pages so maybe this was already addressed.
But this is why it's laughable to me when people get offended that minority neighborhoods glorify and memorialize cop killers. Can you imagine your life being that worthless that the police can kill you like this in broad daylight without suffering any consequences? That shit boggles the mind. The police act like judge, jury and executioner when it comes to blacks and Hispanics and quite often an innocent person is killed for no reason at all.
Fuck every single cop in that video and may they meet the same violent fate they just bestowed upon an innocent man for no goddamn reason.
But this is why it's laughable to me when people get offended that minority neighborhoods glorify and memorialize cop killers. Can you imagine your life being that worthless that the police can kill you like this in broad daylight without suffering any consequences? That shit boggles the mind. The police act like judge, jury and executioner when it comes to blacks and Hispanics and quite often an innocent person is killed for no reason at all.
Fuck every single cop in that video and may they meet the same violent fate they just bestowed upon an innocent man for no goddamn reason.
I just watched the video. This is terrible.
His despair when he expresses that he is harassed regulary and his sad weeping that he coudln't breathe. Seriously, this officers made a bad call, a really bad call. I almost hoped for a small riot, when the crowd got angry after they saw how the police attacked the guy.
His despair when he expresses that he is harassed regulary and his sad weeping that he coudln't breathe. Seriously, this officers made a bad call, a really bad call. I almost hoped for a small riot, when the crowd got angry after they saw how the police attacked the guy.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
The law doesnt work, protesting doesnt work, and rioting doesnt work. Whats left?
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