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Obama suggests Clinton didn't work as hard as he did
- Thread starter Unknown Soldier
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VendettaRed07
Member
How I feel at this point
Alex
Member
Yeah, I feel like that's a big part of the sting. Resulted in such a meek turnout for such an important election.
Hilary, who I figured would have worked her ass off after being sidelined in 08, just seemed to sort of phone in it in spots. To an extent I think most of us were all too lax, too complacent due to polling and due to what a clown of an opponent she had but man, the more I read about her campaigning, especially in contrast how much she raised for it, it's very saddening.
Gotta get someone with the fire in them, next time.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Let's just put things this way: the entire PoliGAF thread cackled at the thought of Trump wasting his last day of full campaigning in Michigan, and heartily laughed off the idea he could ever win Pennsylvania, questioning why he was even putting money into the state.
But that's where Trump won the election: at the margins, taking advantage of the enthusiasm gap with just enough precision in the rural areas Hillary didn't even kiss a single baby to win states Obama carried handily.
Hillary let the polls run her campaign instead of bothering to put her ear to the ground. Zero strategy.
But that's where Trump won the election: at the margins, taking advantage of the enthusiasm gap with just enough precision in the rural areas Hillary didn't even kiss a single baby to win states Obama carried handily.
Hillary let the polls run her campaign instead of bothering to put her ear to the ground. Zero strategy.
VendettaRed07
Member
Nothing about her health required spending so much time in California at fundraisers
And she never stepped a foot in Wisconsin
Pure idiocy
Dreams-Visions
Member
I'm about 999.9% sure she and her team were just reading the polls. They simply didn't see a way a rational, sober nation would elect Donald J. Trump as PoTUS.
She just didn't. Sure upsets can happen in sport, warfare, life...but there was basically universal agreement that Donald Trump had some loooooong fucking odds.
Critical miscalculations in battleground states and a failure to believe that the American people could possibly elect him are why she may have failed to campaign the right way in the right states. The result is many of us will suffer.
Yup, people talking about it should have been a slam dunk for Hillary. The same can be said for voters. They knew the better choice but chose the racist/sexist one as if there was nothing wrong with him. It's mind boggling.
Dice//
Banned
This. It's easy to be 20/20 about what Hillary DIDN'T do... but how did Trump sneak away as the victor with next to no political experience and a backwards view of major issues is much more baffling.
Sorry middle class, those jobs ain't coming back, Presidents aren't that "big parent" you complain to and makes things better.
EatinOlives
Member
Worse yet, they engaged in the grossest possible mental gymnastics to make Hillary's "scandals" as bad as what he spouted on a regular basis, to the point where many convinced themselves that she was just as bad, if not worse. Failing that, many others simply stayed home because they didn't feel coddled enough.
VendettaRed07
Member
Hillary didn't even need to win rural areas in states. She just needed to limit the damage.
She let trump completely dominate a vacuum of empty space by not even contesting
Loss is totally on her and her idea that demographics and running up the score in large cities would be enough. No other dem can make that same mistake again.
I think it's possible Trump leaned from Ted Cruzs win in Iowa how important campaigning can be
She let trump completely dominate a vacuum of empty space by not even contesting
Loss is totally on her and her idea that demographics and running up the score in large cities would be enough. No other dem can make that same mistake again.
I think it's possible Trump leaned from Ted Cruzs win in Iowa how important campaigning can be
Christ. Obama makes a statement in response to a reporter's question regarding how Democrats move forward from their losses in the election. His comments are all about how the failure is not of the core principles of the Party, but of messaging. Democrats need to figure out how to connect with individual voters so that they don't feel overlooked or taken for granted, and the political landscape can change rapidly. Neither the question asked nor the answer posed even so much as mentions the Clinton campaign.
So what do we take away from this? Naturally that it was a stealth condemnation of the Clinton campaign! Drama! That's the story, after all, because fuck the actual substance of his statement. Nobody wants to read that.
So what do we take away from this? Naturally that it was a stealth condemnation of the Clinton campaign! Drama! That's the story, after all, because fuck the actual substance of his statement. Nobody wants to read that.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I understood that reference.gif
Here is a comparison of schedules of Obama 2008, Clinton 2016, and Trump 2016:
Clinton campaign schedule:
http://www.p2016.org/clinton/clintoncal0816.html
August 18 - New York, NY
August 19 - Martha's Vineyard, MA
August 20 - Nantucket, MA, Martha's Vineyard, MA
August 21 - Provincetown, MA, Osterville, MA
August 22 - Beverly Hills, CA
August 23 - Los Angeles, CA, Laguna Beach, CA, Piedmont, CA
August 24 - Redwood City, CA, Los Altos, CA, Woodside, CA
August 25 - Reno, NV
August 26 - None
August 27 - White Plains, NY
August 28 - Sag Harbor, NY, Southampton, NY, Bridgehampton, NY
August 29 - East Hampton, NY, Quogue, NY
August 30 - Sagaponack, NY, North Haven, NY
August 31 - Cincinnati, OH
September 1 - None
September 2 - None
September 3 - None
September 4 - None
September 5 - Cleveland, OH, Hampton, IL
September 6 - Tampa, FL
September 7 - New York, NY
September 8 - Charlotte, NC, Kansas City, MO
September 9 - New York, NY
September 10 - None
September 11 - New York, NY, Chappaqua, NY
September 12 - Chappaqua, NY
September 13 - Chappaqua, NY
September 14 - Chappaqua, NY
September 15 - Greensboro, NC, Washington, DC
September 16 - Washington, DC, New York, NY
September 17 - Washington, DC
September 18 - None
September 19 - Philadelphia, PA, New York, NY
September 20 - None
September 21 - Orlando, FL
September 22 - Chappaqua, NY
September 23 - Rye Brook, NY
September 24 - Rye Brook, NY
September 25 - New York, NY, Rye Brook, NY
September 26 - Hempstead, NY
September 27 - Raleigh, NC
September 28 - Durham, NH, Boston, MA
September 29 - Des Moines, IA, Chicago, IL
September 30 - Fort Pierce, FL, Coral Springs, FL, Miami Beach, FL
This was Obama's schedule in the same period in 2008:
https://www2.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obamacal0808.html
August 18 - Albuquerque, NM
August 19 - Orlando, FL, Raleigh, NC
August 20 - Greensboro, NC, Martinsville, VA, Danville, VA, Lynchburg, VA
August 21 - Richmond, VA, Chester, VA, Petersburg, VA, Emporia, VA, Chesapeake, VA
August 22 - Chicago, IL
August 23 - Springfield, IL
August 24 - Eau Claire, WI
August 25 - Davenport, IA, Kansas City, MO
August 26 - Kansas City, MO
August 27 - Billings, MT, Denver, CO
August 28 - Denver, CO
August 29 - Monaca, PA, Aliquippa, PA, Beaver, PA
August 30 - Boardman, OH, Cleveland, OH, Marengo, OH, Dublin, OH
August 31 - Lima, OH, Toledo, OH, Hamilton, IN, Battle Creek, MI
September 1 - Detroit, MI, Monroe, MI, Milwaukee, WI
September 2 - Chicago, IL
September 3 - New Philadelphia, OH, Dillonvale, OH
September 4 - York, PA, Columbia, PA, Lancaster, PA
September 5 - Duryea, PA, Wyoming, PA, Middletown, NJ
September 6 - Terre Haute, IN
September 7 - Chicago, IL
September 8 - Flint, MI, Farmington Hills, MI
September 9 - Riverside, OH, Abingdon, VA, Lebanon, VA
September 10 - Norfolk, VA, New York, NY, Washington, DC
September 11 - Harlem, NY, New York, NY
September 12 - Dover, NH, Hopkinton, NH, Concord, NH
September 13 - Manchester, NH
September 14 - Chicago, IL
September 15 - Grand Junction, CO, Pueblo, CO
September 16 - Golden, CO, Beverly Hills, CA
September 17 - Elko, NV, Las Vegas, NV
September 18 - Albuquerque, NM, Bernalillo, NM, Española, NM, Albuquerque, NM
September 19 - Coral Gables, FL
September 20 - Daytona Beach, FL, Jacksonville, FL
September 21 - Charlotte, NC
September 22 - Green Bay, WI, Chicago, IL
September 23 - Clearwater, FL
September 24 - Clearwater, FL, Dunedin, FL
September 25 - Clearwater, FL, Washington, DC
September 26 - Oxford, MS
September 27 - Greensboro, NC, Fredericksburg, VA, Washington, DC
September 28 - Detroit, MI
September 29 - Westminster, CO
September 30 - Reno, NV
Trump's schedule:
http://www.p2016.org/trump/trumpcal0916.html
August 18 - Mooresville, NC, Statesville, NC, Charlotte, NC
August 19 - Baton Rouge, LA, Dimondale, MI, Minneapolis, MN
August 20 - New York, NY, Fredericksburg, VA
August 21 - Betminster, NJ
August 22 - Akron, OH
August 23 - Fort Worth, TX, Austin, TX
August 24 - Tampa, FL, Jackson, MS
August 25 - New York, NY, Manchester, NH, Aspen, CO
August 26 - Las Vegas, NV, Stateline, NV
August 27 - Des Moines, IA
August 28 - Bedminster, NJ
August 29 - Woodside, CA
August 30 - Tulare, CA, Everett, WA
August 31 - Mexico City, Phoenix, AZ
September 1 - Cincinnati, OH, Wilmington, OH, New York, NY
September 2 - Philadelphia, PA
September 3 - Detroit, MI
September 4 - None
September 5 - Cleveland, OH, Youngstown, OH
September 6 - Virginia Beach, VA, Greenville, NC
September 7 - Philadelphia, PA, New York, NY
September 8 - Cleveland, OH
September 9 - Washington, DC, Pensacola, FL
September 10 - St. Louis, MO
September 11 - New York, NY
September 12 - Baltimore, MD, Dundalk, MD, Asheville, NC
September 13 - Des Moines, IA, Aston, PA
September 14 - Flint, MI, Canton, OH
September 15 - New York, NY, Laconia, NH
September 16 - Washington, DC, Miami, FL
September 17 - Houston, TX, Norman, OK, Colorado Springs, CO
September 18 - None
September 19 - Fort Myers, FL, New York, NY
September 20 - High Point, NC, Greensboro, NC, Kenansville, NC
September 21 - Clev. Heights, OH, Toledo, OH, Dayton, OH
September 22 - Pittsburgh, PA, Philadelphia, PA, Chester Township, PA
September 23 - New York, NY
September 24 - New York, NY, Roanoke, VA
September 25 - New York, NY
September 26 - Hempstead, NY
September 27 - Miami, FL, Longwood, FL, Melbourne, FL
September 28 - Bollingbrook, IL, Council Bluffs, IA, Waukesha, WI
September 29 - Bedford, NH
September 30 - Grand Rapids, MI, Novi, MI, Detroit, MI
DR2K
Banned
It's empathizing with white lower class voters. They're the voting force that elected Trump.
She spent way too much time trying to get votes that were already in her pocket. Minorities are not going republican. All the time spent courting them was a waste.
VendettaRed07
Member
She should have known. He was her opponent. Her task was to take trump seriously and beat him.
She had the assets, the ground game. Literally everything in her favor and she blew it.
kaname-san
Member
She had an awful plan. It's like she thought she could just hang back while trump buried himself.
Septimus Prime
Member
"Git gud."
Love,
Obama and Gaming side
Love,
Obama and Gaming side
Sinfamy
Member
You can partly blame the media for that, who did the same thing as many here on GAF did, tell everyone that she had a 98.2% chance of winning, laugh at everyone saying that Trump had a real chance, that she had it in the bag, and that it was time to prepare the fireworks and measure the drapes.
Why would people rush to the polls if you hear left and right that she's going to landslide Trump.
You need to create urgency, and to have a good get out to vote strategy, something this campaign didn't even bother with.
And Obama has his share of the blame in this too, he constantly pushed for TPP when the rust belt who hated it had someone like Trump come and promise them he'll block it and bring back their jobs.
It's not really a stretch to read between the lines here. The fact that he singled out the messaging (that's on Hillary) not the core principles (that's Obama et al.) is the tell. I'll totally cop to being a Monday morning quarterback here, but there were pretty severe strategic mistakes that they made in retrospect that it isn't healthy to overlook.
GAF was insufferable at times. I was shouted down by several people, within seconds, for suggesting that she might lose. This was Hillary country. Which is fine. I would have voted for her myself (were I American). But the echo chamber was very, very potent around here.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Obama is pissed, regardless of the "Hey, guys, please give King Birther a chance" face he's putting on in public.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I think Trump held about 30+ more rallies than Hillary?
Like, in hindsight his comments about her having no stamina make sense if you count the number of rallies each did.(Not saying they're correct, but it makes sense why he was using that as a line of attack)
Christ alive. She didn't even go to Flint, Michigan. After all the Dems said about the GOP ruining that town, and she still didn't go.
TheSchwab_7
Member
Geez it's like she only campaigned in New York most of the time. Terrible strategy. Have to admit that Trump was putting in the work...and it paid off.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
The Democratic campaign's arrogance was their downfall. Obama is 100% right.
Unknown Soldier
Member
In fact, Obama took absolutely zero responsibility for the defeat.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/barack-obama-donald-trump-231385
Obama: "Don't look at me guys. I showed up in Iowa. And Michigan. And Wisconsin. And Ohio. And Pennsylvania's rural areas."
The Silver
Member
If i had a nickle for how many times I heard on GAF that Trump had no chance whatsover because of the "demographics".
So basically a ton of NY visits and numerous no shows sprinkled throughout the campaign trail.
Jesus
Super_Cobra
Member
It's like she handed trump the election. She and trump are Two of the worse candidates ever.
I can't blame him at all for shifting all blame onto Clinton though. Not when Clinton deliberately ignored multiple advisers, Obama, her husband, and any iota she may have had of common sense. What else was Obama to do other than try to make up for the damage where he could?
I have no doubt Obama is as dismayed with what now appear, with increasing clarity, to be the strategic blunders of the Clinton campaign.
But the fact that you have to "read between the lines" is the point. Obama is not suggesting Clinton did not "work as hard as he did," nor that she somehow did not represent the core principles of the Party. The takeaway from listening to his 4~ minute answer here should not be that he is laying the state of the Party at Clinton's feet (because he isn't), but rather that he is challenging it to do better generally.
And yet, here we are.
StrategyFan
Member
she needed more stamina
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
My only real problem with this narrative is that if she's out there campaigning and makes a dumb gaffe, like she's gonna put coal miners out of a job or fucking dies so hard she has to be dragged like a corpse to her minivan, then all you wise asses would be on here saying she should've just let Trump bury himself ... like every wise person was saying for the past damn year. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake, as they say.
Like, yeah I can see all the reasons she lost now. But every single one of them has a sound, strategic reasoning behind it and it was based on data. BAD DATA, yes. But nobody saw this coming.
And spare me the 'Donald out strategized her' nonsense. Dude made just as many dumb campaign stops in unwinnable states as she did wasting her time in uncontested blue states. Everything went wrong for Hillary. Doesn't make Trump a genius.
Like, yeah I can see all the reasons she lost now. But every single one of them has a sound, strategic reasoning behind it and it was based on data. BAD DATA, yes. But nobody saw this coming.
And spare me the 'Donald out strategized her' nonsense. Dude made just as many dumb campaign stops in unwinnable states as she did wasting her time in uncontested blue states. Everything went wrong for Hillary. Doesn't make Trump a genius.
The implication is that the party (and its candidates) did not follow his strategy and over-relied on demographics. He was specifically talking about how he won a state in a presidential campaign and the immediate comparable would be about how someone else lost a state in a presidential campaign.
NumberThree
Member
Gotta get those New York votes in
VendettaRed07
Member
You would have a lot of nickels
I was guilty of over relying on it as well but our bubble burst in the worst possible way. Can't ever think like that again. The candidate and the supporters need to put the work in.
I honestly can't imagine the list of people Obama is pissed at right now. He has to hand the presidency to Donald Trump. Even with all the difficult dynamics stacked against Hillary, she should have and could have won. Without wanting to get into fantasy, I think Obama would have wiped the floor with Trump.
I think both are the takeaways from the answer. There can be more than one takeaway.
The architects of the Clinton strategy this election have to be held accountable.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Absolutely. I feel bad for President Obama, he's going to have his entire 8-year legacy mostly wiped out in Trump's first 100 days because his would-be successor literally didn't listen to everyone around her who was telling her what she ought to be doing. I mean maybe she should have listened to this one guy who was a previous two-term President of the United States that left office with some of the highest personal approval ratings in history.
You're being a bit pedantic. He is obviously speaking directly to what Hillary did not do (leading to a loss), contrasted against what he had done (leading to a win) and what the party should be doing. People will ascribe different language to what he's suggesting here, but the central thesis remains the same.
He (at least seems to be) talking about the 2008 Iowa caucus, which he spent about 87 days campaigning in. His victory there was an upset.
https://www2.gwu.edu/~action/2008/ia08/iavobama.html
I'm not sure why everyone is assuming he's comparing his GE results to Clinton's.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I would still vote for Clinton 11 times out of 10 just to keep Trump out of office, but this really calls into question just how qualified she really was.
If she was a young, naive up-start, I could understand, but this is a person with decades of experience, including a previous primary run and eight years as First Lady. I don't think that "bad data" is a sufficient excuse.
If she was a young, naive up-start, I could understand, but this is a person with decades of experience, including a previous primary run and eight years as First Lady. I don't think that "bad data" is a sufficient excuse.
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