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[Hoo-doo]

I wonder how GAF is going to be after Sony demonstrates Morpheus on stage with updated builds of previously announced games, and new games.

Great looking games.

They already have shown great demos, with many people commenting that they were the most polished VR experiences they ever had even when compared to the Oculus and Vive. (like Danny on the bombcast a week ago)

 

[hohoXD123]

This post will most likely get ignored as it goes against the popular idea that PS4 isnt capable of playing great VR games, or that since the tech demos we have seen have been more stationary tasks that it must mean it somehow cant ever create a VR game where you move around the world with a move controller etc.

The thought of No Mans Sky with VR is probably one of the most exciting prospects regarding gaming, this is literally the sort of thing many dreamed of back in the day. If Sony announce at E3 that NMS will be Morpheus compatible it will make the wait for Morpheus even harder than it already is.

I can play great VR games on my phone, the PS4 will be fine even if it's graphically inferior to high end PC VR systems. And yes, I can definitely see NMS being the killer app for VR, the already insane hype behind that game will be increased even more, wouldn't want to be in Hello Games' shoes if they can't deliver.

 

[Afrikan]

They already have shown great demos, with many people commenting that they were the most polished VR experiences they ever had even when compared to the Oculus and Vive. (like Danny on the bombcast a week ago)

Oh I know...I've shown these examples with Screenshots and Youtube video (EVE: Valkyrie) of these games being played by journalists on PS4s, in these Morpheus threads.

but my posts have mostly been ignored, so maybe on a big stage like E3...they'll finally notice.... and we'll have less "Morpheus games will look like PS2.5 games, because of hardware limitations"

 

[UrbanRats]

To experience good VR you really don't need ultra HD textures, extreme polygon counts or the highest image fidelity possible. You need presence.

Wouldn't you agree that a game like No Man's Sky would be incredible to experience in VR? It's far from the highest-fidelity game out there and it uses graphics that could possibly scale really well and work with Morpheus. Photorealism really isn't the only objective.

This post will most likely get ignored as it goes against the popular idea that PS4 isnt capable of playing great VR games, or that since the tech demos we have seen have been more stationary tasks that it must mean it somehow cant ever create a VR game where you move around the world with a move controller etc.

The thought of No Mans Sky with VR is probably one of the most exciting prospects regarding gaming, this is literally the sort of thing many dreamed of back in the day. If Sony announce at E3 that NMS will be Morpheus compatible it will make the wait for Morpheus even harder than it already is.

Can NMS run at, at least, rock solid 60fps? That's what's needed for Morpheus VR (with reprojection at 120hrz), stereoscopically, too.

I actually agree with the notion that you don't need super fidelity for VR, but lower specs of the PS4 are still a concern to keep in mind.

 

[SmokyDave]

Got the PC sorted, I just want a date and price for the UK consumer version. I'd like it to be £350 and available by xmas, ideally.

 

[derExperte]

It's baffling that people are reacting this way.

Looking at who some of those people are that are suddenly oh so very disappointed it shouldn't surprise anyone that they're trying to steer this thread into Sony-PR-territory.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I can play great VR games on my phone, the PS4 will be fine even if it's graphically inferior to high end PC VR systems. And yes, I can definitely see NMS being the killer app for VR, the already insane hype behind that game will be increased even more, wouldn't want to be in Hello Games' shoes if they can't deliver.

I think Sony and Hello games are fools to not see the connection between the type of game they are making and the new upcoming VR headset. It looks like these two are made for eachother.

It's basically the dream. Just you in the cockpit of your trusty spacecraft in the deepest reaches of space, free to explore. If they manage to nail 'presence' in that context and actually make it feel like you're there, they have an absolute winner on their hands.
Everyone and their dogs would want to experience that.

 

[solokazama]

My PC is ready since 1-2 years. Just gimme the Virtual Hardware already.

 

[Man]

The Witness has been tested with VR since christmas 2013. Remember Jonathan Blow tweeting screenshots of test.

It's a first-person game though but maybe it doesn't use traditional controls? Otherwise it will suffer some nausea. Same with NMS onfoot segments.

 

[DavidDesu]

Sounds about right. Remember the vast majority of ordinary people out there would need to spend this as they have bare bones office PCs at best, if they have a PC at all. Its a niche market and that's a lot of money for what VR will offer initially. People spend more on big TVs so its not completely bats hit insane pricing which is good, and of course it will come down in time. Also mobile solutions will keep improving.

Still I think Morpheus definitely is the most appealing. Sure it won't do AAA quality graphics this generation, but for brand new technology which has the chance to blow people away with far less than AAA level graphics, and being the ONLY affordable fully featured VR setup (mobile has no Move controllers for instance for real interaction), the ball is in Sony's court to smash it and make it a huge success.

 

[UrbanRats]

I think Sony and Hello games are fools to not see the connection between the type of game they are making and the new upcoming VR headset. It looks like these two are made for eachother.

It's basically the dream. Just you in the cockpit of your trusty spacecraft in the deepest reaches of space, free to explore. If they manage to nail 'presence' in that context and actually make it feel like you're there, they have an absolute winner on their hands.
Everyone and their dogs would want to experience that.

Since NMS has on foot FPS segments, it shares the problem of free movement every other experiment on VR seems to share (causing motion sickness).
If it was just the turret sections, though.

 

[DavidDesu]

Got the PC sorted, I just want a date and price for the UK consumer version. I'd like it to be £350 and available by xmas, ideally.

I genuinely think they'll push for £250 max in the UK. Anything more seems out of reach. I might be wrong but it feels like a good price point. If they can get it down to £200 for those who already have camera and Moves it could be a great success. Nothing about the spec says to me it will cost Sony drastically more than this to mass produce, then again 120Hz screen and the breakout box contents might push it up but I hope not.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I genuinely think they'll push for £250 max in the UK. Anything more seems out of reach. I might be wrong but it feels like a good price point. If they can get it down to £200 for those who already have camera and Moves it could be a great success. Nothing about the spec says to me it will cost Sony drastically more than this to mass produce, then again 120Hz screen and the breakout box contents might push it up but I hope not.

I think that since Sony themselves have stated that they see Morpheus as a platform rather than just a peripheral that they are likely to drop the price a little and just make up the money on sold games like they did with the PS4 initially to help get it out the door and into peoples hands.

 

[KKRT00]

Can NMS run at, at least, rock solid 60fps? That's what's needed for Morpheus VR (with reprojection at 120hrz), stereoscopically, too.

Yep, exactly this. I dont believe that they'll manage to run it in stable 60hz.

 

[SerTapTap]

I wonder how GAF is going to be if/after Sony demonstrates Morpheus on stage with updated builds of previously announced games, and new games.

Great looking games.

People already ignore the multiple demos and impressions that are out there and look great. Some people will simply ignore reality and pretend Morpheus is ps1 visuals literally through a screen door at 45 fps because "consoles"

 

[orioto]

I think it's pretty clear that PS4 won't have PS4 graphics for Morpheus. But i'm pretty sure PS3 graphics at 120fps with a good iq will be amazing i VR. This is all we need to build incredible vr experience for now.

I mean let's face it, most of the Oculus demos we've tried are not even that quality graphically..

But they'll need to be stylized and maybe not realistic to work, ala rime. With Nintendo exemples you can even find examples of GC generation graphics that would be incredible in VR, like FZero GX, Wind Waker.. So PS3 graphics are way enough to make incredible things (and you would still have more RAM, better shaders, textures..). In other words you can make something super pretty on PS4 without the order poly count, really.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Given the fact that computer hardware components tend to be a bit pricier in Europe than they are in the US, I wonder what that is in pounds.



It does make me wonder what Facebook is after, here. This doesn't sound like the product I imagine they had in mind, in the end; it doesn't strike me as mass-market enough for the audience I thought that they were pursuing. Maybe they're making plans for a few generations down the line.



I think a key difference, too, is that there are more people out there who only require a small subset of upgrades to get enough to make Morpheus work. I'm fairly sure I'd basically need to completely refit my PC to reach that target level. To be fair, though, I am about due a big upgrade, so maybe that's not so bad.

I have a pc that cost, for base items, €800. Add an SSD, monitor, all that fluff, and it's north of €1100. That's a huge outlay, now I belive this PC would run Oculus at quite high a level relatively. But I'd still need to go out and drop maybe €500 more to make it high end and the best it can be for VR. That includes, completely redoing the case and cooling systems too, in addition to buying a headset for me to have the best personal experience. Oculus is just looking a tad out of reach for me. As you say, many people will only need a small upgrade but for the likes of me and people who are new to the PC ecosystem, Oculus looks a huge investment, alright. I do, as you say wonder what Facebook is getting out of what might be a niche system for the next few years. Long term potential is there, but they'll need to light up the minds of the masses as there are a lot of people out there who swear PC gaming is far too complicated for them.

It'll be certainly interesting to keep an eye on of the next few years and I, for one, hope it takes off but there are some serious stumbling blocks in play.

 

[Joey Ravn]

So, by reading this thread, I gathered that the Oculus is DOA. Sony has won the VR race. $400 PS4 + Morpheus produces equal or better fidelity in VR as a $1200 PC + Oculus. No Man Sky is proof that Sony does VR right, even if it hasn't been released.

Oh, OK. I guess I'll go with the Vive anyway.

 

[Carn82]

Yep, exactly this. I dont believe that they'll manage to run it in stable 60hz.

probably not. But I wouldnt mind a 'VR mode' that will run at a solid 60FPS with some graphical features disabled.

 

[mrklaw]

I think Sony and Hello games are fools to not see the connection between the type of game they are making and the new upcoming VR headset. It looks like these two are made for eachother.

It's basically the dream. Just you in the cockpit of your trusty spacecraft in the deepest reaches of space, free to explore. If they manage to nail 'presence' in that context and actually make it feel like you're there, they have an absolute winner on their hands.
Everyone and their dogs would want to experience that.

and then you get out of your cockpit, strafe left and immediately throw up

I'm looking forward to it too, but there are still challenges to bring it to VR, not just with the graphics.

 

[Gumbie]

So, by reading this thread, I gathered that the Oculus is DOA. Sony has won the VR race. $400 PS4 + Morpheus produces equal or better fidelity in VR as a $1200 PC + Oculus. No Man Sky is proof that Sony does VR right, even if it hasn't been released.

Oh, OK. I guess I'll go with the Vive anyway.

Who has said that?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I think it's pretty clear that PS4 won't have PS4 graphics for Morpheus. But i'm pretty sure PS3 graphics at 120fps with a good iq will be amazing i VR. This is all we need to build incredible vr experience for now.

I mean let's face it, most of the Oculus demos we've tried are not even that quality graphically..

The PS3 offered eye-searingly amazing graphics at dynamic 1080p 60fps with Wipeout HD:Fury. The PS3.

I have no doubts that the PS4 is capable enough to deliver in spades.

So, by reading this thread, I gathered that the Oculus is DOA. Sony has won the VR race. $400 PS4 + Morpheus produces equal or better fidelity in VR as a $1200 PC + Oculus. No Man Sky is proof that Sony does VR right, even if it hasn't been released.

Oh, OK. I guess I'll go with the Vive anyway.

English not your first language, is it? Nobody said any of those things.

 

[mrklaw]

So, by reading this thread, I gathered that the Oculus is DOA. Sony has won the VR race. $400 PS4 + Morpheus produces equal or better fidelity in VR as a $1200 PC + Oculus. No Man Sky is proof that Sony does VR right, even if it hasn't been released.

Oh, OK. I guess I'll go with the Vive anyway.

That is literally what everyone in this thread is saying, you are 100% correct in your interpretation.

 

[mclem]

But they'll need to be stylized and maybe not realistic to work, ala rime. With Nintendo exemples you can even find examples of GC generation graphics that would be incredible in VR, like FZero GX, Wind Waker.. So PS3 graphics are way enough to make incredible things (and you would still have more RAM, better shaders, textures..). In other words you can make something super pretty on PS4 without the order poly count, really.

The thought of F-Zero in VR strikes me as something both wonderful and THERE IS NOT ENOUGH VOMIT IN MY BODY.

 

[Seanspeed]

Yeah, mine too. Sandy Bride I2500k+. I don't get the fuss about the 1000$+ you need for PC gaming. I buy all 4-5 years a new pc - and gaming is not reason for that. At some point there are newer standards (like USB 2/3, SATA etc ...) so you need a new PC anyways.

I recently bought a 970 - which actually costs less than a PS4/Xbone. Before I had a 5870, which was released in 2009 (I bought it used for 150€ in 2012).

Problem is, that a lot of people don't use desktop pcs anymore (notebook only - or crappy pcs that can't be upgraded).

We'll have laptop GPU's in 2 years that rival or surpass a GTX970 in power.

 

[yazanov]

The Oculus rift was always set up to be a niche product and basically cater to the hardcore PC enthusiasts. This much was known from the get go. I mean, how many units are people expecting the units to sell? half a million lifetime sales of the consumer retail product?

I mean unless our smart phones are capable of running the full Oculus VR experience, it will have no chance at being a mass market product. Maybe in 3 or 4 years from now and our phones are more powerful.

 

[Hoo-doo]

We'll have laptop GPU's in 2 years that rival or surpass a GTX970 in power.

Yes, and by then we'll have PC games that require the future equivalent of a Titan XXX anyway. It's a moving target.

 

[Circinus]

Not unexpected.

This will deliver a premium, top-of-the-line VR experience, unlike PS4 Morpheus.

That said, the Morpheus VR HMD is looking very good and could be a great VR HMD for PC and PS4, but if it's tied to only PS4, then it will be bottlenecked by the PS4's limited power imho (compared to high-end PC's) and not be able to deliver as premium VR (really high fidelity graphics with native 90-120 fps) on PC with Vive or Oculus Rift.

I wish SCE will release drivers/API for VR Morpheus on PC, to allow developers to utilize the Morpheus HMD as well for PC VR games. If it's just PS4 it's always going to be a bit bottlenecked imho. Of course it can still deliver great VR experiences on PS4, if the developers have really clever resource managements techniques (like how God of War III, Uncharted 2, Beyond Two Souls etc still look so good on PS3 despite not having a huge amount of CPU/GPU power at their disposal) and don't aim for photorealism. But in the end, on PC developers will be able to pursue their technical/visual ambitions further than on PS4.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

yeah that sounds about right around $500 for the headset and around $1000 for the pc.
That makes sense to me :O.

I really don't get why people think the headset is like $199 that does not make any sense.
The tech inside is just to new and expensive for it.

 

[Visualante2]

I'm cool with Oculus being a higher price. The computer factor is a bit of a wildcard but looks like I'll be queueing for this day one.

 

[Seanspeed]

Yes, and by then we'll have PC games that require the future equivalent of a Titan XXX anyway. It's a moving target.

Not necessarily. Games don't actually become that much more demanding in such a short amount of time, especially not in the middle of a console generation. I'm sure if you want the latest and greatest VR headset(CV2, Vive 2, whatever) that feature even higher resolutions or framerates then yea, you'll probably want a rig to match, but there should be no reason why you couldn't still use the older CV1/Vive headset and not face drastically increased demands. That sort of thing should all be scalable enough with in-game settings.

 

[derExperte]

Who has said that?

Exactly like that no one but there's a concerted effort going on to make it look like the price difference is unexpected and unreasonable while trying to downplay or question the quality-gap.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Yes, and by then we'll have PC games that require the future equivalent of a Titan XXX anyway. It's a moving target.

The entire point of OR releasing their recommended specs is that it won't be a moving target, there's a target build that games can target.
It really doesn't matter how many more bells and whistles get added beyond that, because we're already past the point where the limiting factor in games is financial and not technological.

 

[Sami+]

Even as an enthusiast I'm a lot more optimistic about Morpheus than I am for Oculus just because I know that when I buy the headset I'm going to be playing exactly as it's supposed to be played, with as much optimization as possible, and with the same experience as everyone else.

On the other hand I don't have a clue how far my GTX 760 is gonna take me.

 

[kyser73]

The PS3 offered eye-searingly amazing graphics at dynamic 1080p 60fps with Wipeout HD:Fury. The PS3.

I have no doubts that the PS4 is capable enough to deliver in spades.

.

Gimme that Zone action.

 

[bj00rn_]

Even as an enthusiast I'm a lot more optimistic about Morpheus than I am for Oculus just because I know that when I buy the headset I'm going to be playing exactly as it's supposed to be played, with as much optimization as possible, and with the same experience as everyone else.

On the other hand I don't have a clue how far my GTX 760 is gonna take me.

A 760 should have more theoretical power than a PS4, and Oculus Rift will not be the only HMD on the PC market. So with a lower specced HMD and timewarp up the wazoo the experience should be fairly comparable.

 

[Soi-Fong]

Even as an enthusiast I'm a lot more optimistic about Morpheus than I am for Oculus just because I know that when I buy the headset I'm going to be playing exactly as it's supposed to be played, with as much optimization as possible, and with the same experience as everyone else.

On the other hand I don't have a clue how far my GTX 760 is gonna take me.

It's not gonna take you far. I can tell you that. Unless, Oculus theatre is all you're interested in.

 

[MaxiLive]

Seems what is to be expected for me. Running something at 75-90hz (not sure what Oculus is aiming for) is going to mean a substantial PC especially if we are talking about UE4 experiences and such. The headset is bound to be £300 minimum due to the tech inside and small consumer base (compared to other electronic devices).

Morpheus will probably be around the £150-200 price range with the capability at running at 60fps (120hz interlaced thing they are doing) but the experiences will feel a lot more premium on the Rift due to the tech inside. Hopefully Sony can get some killer demos setup as the Hiest one shown off looks like one of the best demos for a VR headset ever shown.

 

[Seanspeed]

Seems what is to be expected for me. Running something at 75-90hz (not sure what Oculus is aiming for) is going to mean a substantial PC especially if we are talking about UE4 experiences and such. The headset is bound to be £300 minimum due to the tech inside and small consumer base (compared to other electronic devices).

Morpheus will probably be around the £150-200 price range with the capability at running at 60fps (120hz interlaced thing they are doing) but the experiences will feel a lot more premium on the Rift due to the tech inside. Hopefully Sony can get some killer demos setup as the Hiest one shown off looks like one of the best demos for a VR headset ever shown.

I think Oculus could get it below £300. Consumer base size shouldn't be relevant as they aren't looking to profit on the headset.

 

[Genio88]

I guess my i7 4770k and GTX 980 overclocked should be ready, but i think i'll go with the Vive instead of oculus, Vive should be released this year, while Oculus is a 2016 thing right?

 

[DryvBy]

I'm wondering if this is just going to apply to all games. I'm running a $1,000 mid-range PC (i5 2500, 8GB RAM, 670) and I was able to play even Alien Isolation with full settings without any issues.

 

[Lord Phol]

Is anyone actually surprised by this? I assume that means a ~$1200 PC and a ~$300 headset, which all sounds about right

Yeah this is pretty much how I imagined it being priced as well. Sounds reasonable for 60 (120) fps modern gaming with VR. Now to see if that assumption is correct or not.

Will personally have to spend a few hundred to upgrade my 680GTX to something better, so hopefully the headset won't be too expensive.

 

[Soi-Fong]

A 760 should have more theoretical power than a PS4, and Oculus Rift will not be the only HMD on the PC market. So with a lower specced HMD and timewarp up the wazoo the experience should be fairly comparable.

Are people here really lying through their teeth?

A 760 last year was having trouble keeping up with the DK2's 75 fps requirement @ 1080p with any substantial demos.

Technolust, the Totoro forest demo, anything from Kite & Lightning, etc

There was a shit ton of demos that gave anything below a 770 big trouble in reaching that 75 fps.

Add to that, the 760 is memory limited as well.

Stop comparing the PS4's hardware with these kinds of specs. It's apples and oranges. One is a closed system where the hardware will be pushed to its upper limits and games will be optimized as hell.

 

[Sami+]

A 760 should have more theoretical power than a PS4, and Oculus Rift will not be the only HMD on the PC market. So with a lower specced HMD and timewarp up the wazoo the experience should be fairly comparable.

It's not gonna take you far. I can tell you that. Unless, Oculus theatre is all you're interested in.

This is what I'm talking about lol

Nah when I feel like I'm ready to move past the PS4's power level I'm gonna splurge on Oculus/Vive and a new card. For now though my PC is better than pretty much everyone I know irl (poor college students and non-nerds) and not even even that looks like it's gonna be preferable.

Are people here really lying through their teeth?

A 760 last year was having trouble keeping up with the DK2's 75 fps requirement @ 1080p with any substantial demos.

Technolust, the Totoro forest demo, anything from Kite & Lightning, etc

There was a shit ton of demos that gave anything below a 770 big trouble in reaching that 75 fps.

Add to that, the 760 is memory limited as well.

Stop comparing the PS4's hardware with these kinds of specs. It's apples and oranges. One is a closed system where the hardware will be pushed to its upper limits and games will be optimized as hell.

This was what I expected yeah. Thanks for the info though, I appreciate it.

 

[Dreamwriter]

It is not the average since that is over the top for even the recommended specs and doesn't even include the headset. Also note he spoke of the most someone would pay

You could buy this http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=N82E16883220835

Add an r9 290 for $240 and it costs a total of $765. Add the headset and you probably hit $1k. Venture to pc part picker or any other build it yourself option, and you can knock the price down to sub $700.

You couldn't do that, because the 300 watt power supply isn't anywhere near strong enough for an r9 290 at full load even without a Rift added to the system (r9 290 uses up to 347 watts just by itself!), and the cooling probably isn't good enough either (reviewers in that site said the machine runs hot as it is with only the onboard GPU). There's a reason that machine is cheap, because it wasn't meant to be a gaming system. You need to spend more to get a ready-made pc that can meet the Rift's needs, which is why I said $1150 is about the average cost needed to buy a base computer that meets the specs/exceeds them a little.

And you are ignoring the fact that these days the average pc gamer does not build their own pc. The moment you say "drop in a new video card" you are losing a lot of people, especially when the computer has a sticker on the case you have to break to open the case, that says by doing so you void your warranty (Asus computers, like the one you linked, do that).

And that is just if you want to match the "recommended" so you can be certain you can use every single thing. Many games will support below that with ease.

The whole point of this thread was the CEO of Oculus giving the amount needed to buy a computer that meets the Rift specifications plus the Rift itself. And since they are telling game developers to develop around those specs, I doubt many games will support below "with ease". A solid 90fps with greater than 1080p resolution with no frame drops is not going to be something done with ease even when dropping quality down quite a bit on a PC.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

People should really be happy about VR on PC. We have a near uniform set of specs like resolution and refresh that PC devs can work with.

It's no different than the set HW on consoles. This means that we may get more optimized games on PC when it cones to VR head sets.

I can't be the only one thinking this standard (of sorts) is going to help VR.

 

[Soi-Fong]

Honsetly, what I'm most worried about with Oculus is that even with these high specs that they put out, people with non-appropriate hardware will still buy the Oculus CV1 and end up hurling and blame Oculus for a sub-par experience.

The DK2 was like that early on. So many people with 560's and 660's and such buying the DK2.

What I'm worried about are people getting turned off from VR.

With the PS4 I'm not worried since it's not like Sony will put out 30 fps games.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Just remember you'll get what you pay for. PS4 VR won't be as visually attractive.

potentially. but i think morpheus, being sony made, will offer the most fully fledged and polished games though. i think oculus will remain a bit indie when it comes to VR focused experiences.

 

[Kinthalis]

The PS3 offered eye-searingly amazing graphics ...

Ok, how much is Sony paying to post marketing bullshit on this thread? How many checks are they cutting, cause i want a piece of that!

Sony fuck yeah! Won the vr race before it even started! Yeah! Eye sizzling graphics! Sony vr hells yeah!


That how that works? Do they pay per word, or is this something fanboys do for free? I hope not! You guys should definitely be in their payroll.

 

[Soi-Fong]

potentially. but i think morpheus, being sony made, will offer the most fully fledged and polished games though. i think oculus will remain a bit indie when it comes to VR focused experiences.

Highly doubt it. I expect near AAA games from Oculus as well. That Facebook money is huge for them.