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[Acinixys]

Too high a price-point for me—the enthusiast lot will eat this up though and I'm guessing many will find innovative ways to use it.

Fascinating to experience the infancy of the VR market.

Yeah.

I remember reading that you need a 980 and at least 8GB of ram

That alone is a heavy investment

Ill wait for 2 or 3 years when manufacturing becomes cheaper for them

Plus 1st gen stuff is always funky

Ill let all the nerds test it and help get all the issues and bugs ironed out. Then I can safely buy V4.0 and have the best experience

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Loving how the verbatim quote of "at most you should be in that $1,500 range" from the OP is slowly becoming "you're gonna need AT LEAST a $1500 super-computer, probably more than that" within this very thread.

 

[googleplex]

Indeed. The best possible outcome would be for each of them to occupy a separate cost tier: Morpheus - budget, Oculus - enthusiast, Vive - luxury. This way they will not have to directly fight each other, but each carve a living niche of their own.

The best thing about the current HMD's are that they all pretty simular to each other. The best of the best third party and indy software are bound to be available to each device.

 

[Durante]

Indeed. The best possible outcome would be for each of them to occupy a separate cost tier: Morpheus - budget, Oculus - enthusiast, Vive - luxury. This way they will not have to directly fight each other, but each carve a living niche of their own.

I'd love that, but sadly the current landscape doesn't look like this. You have just three tiers: Cell phone entry level, Morpheus mid-end and Vive/CV1 high-end.

None of the big players is building anything like a real enthusiast (nevermind luxury) VR device right now -- something like a Titan X of VR. The only things I can think of like that are made by niche companies who probably don't have the resources to fully deliver.

I hope the VR market stratifies more over the coming years.

 

[mclem]

Its not 3D, but at a $1500 barrier to entry, its totally 3D.

I understand that this is in no way your point, but it is actually 3D.

 

[yuraya]

Despite the fact that every VR thread as of late has turned into a PC vs Console pissing match. Morpheus, Vive and Oculus will all have a symbotic relationship at the dawn of consumer level VR. I bet each company is hoping th other do well so as to increase the overall pool of people that will be consuming VR content. The more successful Morpheus is the better it is for Oculus and Vive down the line and vice versa.

Sure it would be nice if everything could be successful and sell billions. But its not going to and people need to have real expectations. This notion of going cheap to chase the casual audience and off your competitor is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with console vs pc. Sony won't sell this stuff at a loss and neither will Oculus. These aren't some off the shelf parts. This is new tech. Its going to be expensive. I was just pointing out that console add ons and peripherals on don't have a bright history so people need to be realistic.

 

[hodgy100]

I understand that this is in no way your point, but it is actually 3D.

VR is not 3d.

 

[GoonerTRON]

VR is not 3d.

The image you are seeing in VR is 3D.

 

[baphomet]

Yeah.

I remember reading that you need a 980 and at least 8GB of ram

That alone is a heavy investment

Ill wait for 2 or 3 years when manufacturing becomes cheaper for them

Plus 1st gen stuff is always funky

Ill let all the nerds test it and help get all the issues and bugs ironed out. Then I can safely buy V4.0 and have the best experience

The consumer product will be your "version 4".

VR is not 3d.

Lol, what?

 

[komplanen]

VR is not 3d.

Can I have what you are smoking?

 

[Hoo-doo]

That's a ridiculous entry fee for the average consumer, basically cements it as a very niche product right from day one.

Seeing how positive Morpheus inpressions have been all around, even when compared to Vive and the latest Oculus devkits, make me think that Sony are on the right approach. There are already 20+ millions of consoles out there hooked up in homes of the average consumer that could offer great VR for a reasonable entry price.

 

[Cuburt]

Welp, that's that.

The VR dream had a nice little run while it lasted.

 

[hodgy100]

The image you are seeing in VR is 3D.

well yeah in literal terms. I assumed he was implying VR is a fad like 3d is :S

Lol, what?

Can I have what you are smoking?

whelp sorry! seems I jumped the gun

 

[Spiritwalker]

That's unfortunate. Will pass then.

 

[mclem]

I can't afford that. You're talking about an amazing top of the line PC, not a "relatively good PC". I've got an HP Laptop with a dedicated graphics card that can run those games, not maxed, but at close to 60 FPS, but it comes nowhere near meeting the spec's for Occulus. The market for this device is going to be miniscule, having said that, anyone that can afford a 970/980 or a Titan can certainly afford the headset as well...that's just not that many people...I don't think.

Actually, speaking of laptops; it won't be true of Rift, of course, but has there been any talk about the combination of Vive and Steam Home Streaming?

 

[UrbanRats]

Look at this 10 page thread.

Why, as a public figure, would you ever spit out a cost that includes a monitor, keyboard, mouse, speaker, power supply, tower, all the guts, AND the headset, when people already have a lot of those costs covered? And that's including a lot of the broader, modern demo. "We expect the average person to spend 60k in total to enjoy the oculus rift in a comfortable white suburban neighborhood."

How about; "we think our average consumer will be spending about $700 to invest in VR." Speak to your damned demographic.

That should be how the whole leadership and marketing team sees it. Not as a crazy 1500 hardware investment, if it doesn't have an apple on it.

This cost is going to be lower in no time anyway. Can't believe they said that, heh. Maybe I'm grumpy because I work close to marketing

Nah man, i agree with you, what a stupid statement to make.

 

[kyser73]

Sure it would be nice if everything could be successful and sell billions. But its not going to and people need to have real expectations. This notion of going cheap to chase the casual audience and off your competitor is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with console vs pc. Sony won't sell this stuff at a loss and neither will Oculus. These aren't some off the shelf parts. This is new tech. Its going to be expensive. I was just pointing out that console add ons and peripherals on don't have a bright history so people need to be realistic.

They kinda are though. The actual tech inside them isn't in itself innovative. The combination & most importantly software is where the really advanced stuff comes on - even with lighthouse.

I'm pretty sure part of the OR story is Paet building the first one from stuff he'd bought on eBay.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I'd love that, but sadly the current landscape doesn't look like this. You have just three tiers: Cell phone entry level, Morpheus mid-end and Vive/CV1 high-end.

Historically mass market adoption comes from tech being licenced for manufacture, and different manufacturers finding their own niches to compete.

Of the three solutions on offer, two are being targetted at open platforms that anyone can build their own versions of and are being supported on the software side by companies who have been shown to be willing to put their products on every platform possible.

One is a a solution for a closed system that only one hardware manufacturer on the planet assembles.

It... well, actually it doesn't surprise me at all that a large portion of GAF think the solution that will end up seeing mass market adoption is the closed proprietary box.

 

[hodgy100]

Can I have what you are smoking?

Actually, speaking of laptops; it won't be true of Rift, of course, but has there been any talk about the combination of Vive and Steam Home Streaming?

I can't imagine that being fun at-all. the latency would make it a very sub optimal experience :S

 

[Zakalwe]

That's a ridiculous entry fee for the average consumer, basically cements it as a very niche product right from day one.

Seeing how positive Morpheus inpressions have been all around, even when compared to Vive and the latest Oculus devkits, make me think that Sony are on the right approach. There are already 20+ millions of consoles out there hooked up in homes of the average consumer that could offer great VR for a reasonable entry price.

As others have rightly commented, Sony's approach is not "right" it is different.

Oculus was /always/ going to require a mid or high end pc to run it. Always. This is zero surprise. It will be enthusiast's tech at launch, and as prices drop on the PC components required it will be picked up by more and more. Still, it will remain one of the higher end products.

It was never, ever trying to compete for the space Morpheus is aiming for.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Out of my league. I definitely can afford it since I bought a house and two cars but just can't see myself spending that amount in a lump just to experience Oculus.

 

[baphomet]

That's unfortunate. Will pass then.

Serious question since so many people are surprised by this. What did you think this was going to cost? What type of PC were you expecting to run this on?

If you had been paying any sort of real attention to it, it was always obvious that you would need a very powerful PC to run vr.

 

[T.O.P]

Serious question since so many people are surprised by this. What did you think this was going to cost? What type of PC were you expecting to run this on?

If you had been paying any sort of real attention to it, it was always obvious that you would need a very powerful PC to run vr.

Yeah, i really don't get it lol

 

[Zakalwe]

Serious question since so many people are surprised by this. What did you think this was going to cost? What type of PC were you expecting to run this on?

If you had been paying any sort of real attention to it, it was always obvious that you would need a very powerful PC to run vr.

I'd like to know this too.

At the very least the requirements to run modern games at 1080/60 is hardly hidden knowledge.

It's baffling that people are reacting this way.

 

[Minamu]

Are there people super-hyped for the oculus who don't already have a PC setup?

I'm getting one and I need a new pc anyway, my old core 2 duo ain't cutting it any more. I'm holding off on buying a new pc until this one breaks on its own, or until I get a better income, no point in buying one in advance of the rift or any other vr helmet before they're out.

 

[UrbanRats]

Why? Because he doesn't lie to people?

As this very thread proves, there are a lot of people that are either skeptical of VR, or outright intentioned in proving how it's just "another gimmick like 3d and Kinect".
I think now is the time to weight everything you say very carefully, and think how clear it is, and how it can be read by someone either biased, or not really knowledgeable enough about PCs, and their actual costs (it's full of people still convinced by the "2000$ pc" fairytale).

I think anything regarding price should be preceded and followed by good and clear qualifiers, possibly on a stage, on a moment where everyone are paying very close attention to what you're actually saying.

 

[mclem]

I can't imagine that being fun at-all. the latency would make it a very sub optimal experience :S

I've played Dactyl Nightmare. I think I can cope with a sub-optimal experience for that olde-stylee feel

 

[bj00rn_]

The image you are seeing in VR is 3D.

No, not necessarily. You need stereoscopy for virtual reality about as much as a person with one eye need it to feel a part of reality. 3D is the icing of the cake, but the lack of it should not break VR presence.

 

[baphomet]

No, not necessarily. You need stereoscopy for virtual reality about as much as a person with one eye need it to feel a part of reality. 3D is the icing of the cake, but the lack of it should not break VR presence.

Without 3d you have no depth perception. It would definitely break vr IMO.

 

[hodgy100]

I've played Dactyl Nightmare. I think I can cope with a sub-optimal experience for that olde-stylee feel

fair enough

 

[kyser73]

Didn't Pornhub say that the biggest non-PC viewing audience it had was via the PS3 app?

Just sayin' for those thinking no porn on Morpheus...

 

[crunozaurus]

Can someone explain to me how project Morpheus is supposed to work on a hardware which can barely hit 30fps/1080p in modern games? I thought VR will miss current gen consoles

 

[baphomet]

Didn't Pornhub say that the biggest non-PC viewing audience it had was via the PS3 app?

Just sayin' for those thinking no porn on Morpheus...

If VR was just playing a video on a screen really close to your eyes, then yea sure. But that's not what it is at all.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Can someone explain to me how project Morpheus is supposed to work on a hardware which can barely hit 30fps/1080p in modern games? I thought VR will miss current gen consoles

"VR" can work on current smartphones.
People are very selective about what they mean by VR.

Its possible to have "non-interactive" experiences on very low end devices (with the caveat being that all VR experiences are interactive at an observation level).
Shit, the WiiU has pseudo-VR experiences and has done since launch.

When Oculus are talking about VR experiences, they are explicitly talking about gaming experiences, and using modern PC titles as the type of experience that can be replicated in VR - meaning fully interactive, with the necessary IQ, FOV settings, AA etc to reduce motion sickness.

 

[EVIL]

Not sure where this, Morpheus will win VR comes from. it isn't a war. All these headsets all have the goal of making VR happen on a consumer level and there are multiple tiers people can pick from. it simply opens up more people to VR.

I hope Morpheus will become successful, their strength is that they sit between casual mobile and enthusiast PC hardware. I think Morpheus will be a great entry point for VR and for people to see the benefits of VR and wanting to pay more for better and more varied experiences.

They all have a common goal, which is the rise of VR.

I also don't get why people didn't expect PC VR gaming to be expensive. We are talking about high resolution high frame rate devices here that need to be powered by high performance pc's.

 

[kyser73]

Can someone explain to me how project Morpheus is supposed to work on a hardware which can barely hit 30fps/1080p in modern games? I thought VR will miss current gen consoles

Perhaps you could find out yourself?

http://www.techradar.com/au/reviews/gaming/project-morpheus-1235379/review

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-hands-on-with-the-near-final-project-morpheus

http://www.roadtovr.com/sony-120hz-2015-morpheus-demo-vr-bots-magic-controller-bedroom-robots/

 

[Auto-Reply]

Can someone explain to me how project Morpheus is supposed to work on a hardware which can barely hit 30fps/1080p in modern games? I thought VR will miss current gen consoles

I think they wont just unlock the framerate and enable 3d rendering and leave it at that when tuning a game for vr output.
Of course that means that you will not see the same game exactly in every detail that you see on your 2d tv.

The question will be how many developers are going to spend time and recources towards this "vr mode" when developing a standard non-vr game. If there even will be a game like that.

It can be expected that not every dev will be able or willing to do this and I think it's not unrealistic to assume that brute forcing the needed results with more powerful hardware will alleviate some of that on the pc side of vr.

 

[KKRT00]

Sony first party studios are a huge asset. For now Sony has all the cards.

What cards? There are like dozens high profile games already announced or even working on Oculus right now. There are maybe few announced Morpheus titles.
And there are millions PCs capable of running high end VR today, let alone in a year.

---

Perhaps you could find out yourself?

http://www.techradar.com/au/reviews/gaming/project-morpheus-1235379/review

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-hands-on-with-the-near-final-project-morpheus

http://www.roadtovr.com/sony-120hz-2015-morpheus-demo-vr-bots-magic-controller-bedroom-robots/

This doesnt answer his question thought.
The only answer is 'with very low fidelity and mostly exclusive games'.

 

[kyser73]

If VR was just playing a video on a screen really close to your eyes, then yea sure. But that's not what it is at all.

Yah, thanks for that.

Who knows - maybe there'll be a VR porn app for the Morpheus since it isn't something Sony has shied away from before.

Which was what my post was hinting at...

 

[Hoo-doo]

Can someone explain to me how project Morpheus is supposed to work on a hardware which can barely hit 30fps/1080p in modern games? I thought VR will miss current gen consoles

To experience good VR you really don't need ultra HD textures, extreme polygon counts or the highest image fidelity possible. You need presence.

Wouldn't you agree that a game like No Man's Sky would be incredible to experience in VR? It's far from the highest-fidelity game out there and it uses graphics that could possibly scale really well and work with Morpheus. Photorealism really isn't the only objective.

 

[oneils]

I'm having a hard time seeing how or why developers should consider this platform. Most popular PC games can run on pretty much anything. I realise oculus was always going to be niche, but not this niche.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

To experience good VR you really don't need ultra HD textures, extreme polygon counts or the highest image fidelity possible. You need presence.

Wouldn't you agree that a game like No Man's Sky would be incredible to experience in VR? It's far from the highest-fidelity game out there and it uses graphics that could possibly scale really well and work with Morpheus. Photorealism really isn't the only objective.

This post will most likely get ignored as it goes against the popular idea that PS4 isnt capable of playing great VR games, or that since the tech demos we have seen have been more stationary tasks that it must mean it somehow cant ever create a VR game where you move around the world with a move controller etc.

The thought of No Mans Sky with VR is probably one of the most exciting prospects regarding gaming, this is literally the sort of thing many dreamed of back in the day. If Sony announce at E3 that NMS will be Morpheus compatible it will make the wait for Morpheus even harder than it already is.

 

[plainr_]

Worth the price for VR porn.

 

[Azure Dream]

Most popular PC games can run on pretty much anything.

"It runs!"

 

[baphomet]

This post will most likely get ignored as it goes against the popular idea that PS4 isnt capable of playing great VR games, or that since the tech demos we have seen have been more stationary tasks that it must mean it somehow cant ever create a VR game where you move around the world with a move controller etc.

The thought of No Mans Sky with VR is probably one of the most exciting prospects regarding gaming, this is literally the sort of thing many dreamed of back in the day. If Sony announce at E3 that NMS will be Morpheus compatible it will make the wait for Morpheus even harder than it already is.

People acting like the Morpheus won't be able to deliver a good VR experience are just as bad as the ones acting surprised that bleeding edge tech isn't free.

There will definitely be a difference in experience between the two, but anything that can show the masses what VR can do is great.

 

[bj00rn_]

Without 3d you have no depth perception. It would definitely break vr IMO.

Right now; Close one of eyes. Did you vanish from reality in a puff of smoke? No.

We've been talking about this in VR threads on gaf for years. The consensus is that VR has several benefits for people with bad eyesight, and the lack of stereoscopic vision is not stopping people from being able to enjoy VR.

1:1 scale, head/position tracking and wide FOV, and the general quality of sensors and hardware, the sum of it all is much much more important than stereoscopy. Lack of it does not break VR. But of course stereoscopy adds an additional layer of immersion.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I'm having a hard time seeing how or why developers should consider this platform.

AAA developers won't consider this platform. They'll make the same games they always make. Because people who like those games will also not consider this platform.

For everyone else theres mastercard different experiences to be had in VR than in traditional titles.

 

[thomasmahler]

Is anybody surprised by this? For VR, you need high framerates. Very high framerates. So you'll need a decent PC.

I highly doubt that Morpheus and the PS4 will be adequate enough for a good VR experience. It'll take another good 3-4 years for VR to become a thing in the mainstream market (and by then, we'll already hear rumors about new consoles based around the VR hype). For that, the headset would have to cost 200 bucks or so and there need to be a few VR killer-apps out there.

The other thing that no one's solved yet is the input device issue. A regular X1 or DS4 controller isn't ideal for the VR experience. Let's hope the device Oculus has been working on is the real deal.

 

[Moonstone]

My PC meets the specs as it is, and it's from 2011 (except for the video card, which is recent). I think trying to sell an 'all-in' package would be a mistake. It might make people feel like they HAVE to buy that when they don't actually need to, which will give it negative attention.

Yeah, mine too. Sandy Bride I2500k+. I don't get the fuss about the 1000$+ you need for PC gaming. I buy all 4-5 years a new pc - and gaming is not reason for that. At some point there are newer standards (like USB 2/3, SATA etc ...) so you need a new PC anyways.

I recently bought a 970 - which actually costs less than a PS4/Xbone. Before I had a 5870, which was released in 2009 (I bought it used for 150€ in 2012).

Problem is, that a lot of people don't use desktop pcs anymore (notebook only - or crappy pcs that can't be upgraded).

 

[Afrikan]

I wonder how GAF is going to be if/after Sony demonstrates Morpheus on stage with updated builds of previously announced games, and new games.

Great looking games.