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[farnham]

I really wish gaming could return to this magical time, when all games were 25 hour long, endlessly replayable totally innovative masterpieces with no glitches or slowdown (hint: it never existed).

Your view of what makes a 'good' HD game is ridiculous by the way, not to mention confusing. If all these devs simply make overrated shiny pieces of shit, why do you want their games on Wii? A console which is (and has been opportunistically pointed out repeatedly in this topic) more expensive than the baseline 360 despite having massively inferior versions of multiplatform games. Because you feel that you're entitled by picking the winning horse? Or because you want to join in on one of the usual GAF bitter tears topics?

Or is it simply that you're more in love with your console than the games themselves?

Being on Wii isn't going to magically make Bioshock, or GTA, or Devil May Cry, or Final Fantasy - or any one of the dozens of HD exclusives you've convinced yourself you don't want or need - any more fun, or make them a better experience.

The casual Wii fan, the people keeping Wii Fit and Wii Play at the top of the charts, I can't blame them for their indifference. These games aren't for them. The self-righteous Nintendo horde though, who hope against hope that every great game that's not on a Nintendo console flops so it'll be like the NES days all over again - you guys are a sad lot.

And as long as there is a potential to have a breakout on the HD side, there are plenty of publishers willing to let you wallow in your game-starved bitterness.

shiny.. yes

Pieces of shit.. no

of course the games are good

they are polished to death.. they are only incorporating the creme ala creme of gaming development history..

the problem is.. its the safe way...

even the slightest innovation (like putting bikes in a racing game or the ability to view out of a taxi window or stuff like that) is getting a helluva praise in the gaming press while really different approaches (wii sports for example) get low scores

whats the end of this

every game looks generic and the same.. how many shooters are competing each year.... i know they are popular and all but i think people that dont necessarily like shooters want to play games too... and those people buy the wii.. simple as that

 

[SovanJedi]

you know there is all this big talk of LittleBigPlanet being casual friendly, but in truth it sounds like something that takes as much dedication and effort to get anything out of as sticking a copy of Half-Life and Worldcraft on a disk and selling that on games console.

The potential for stuff to be made is nigh-on limitless and streamlined to the console's strengths so it is easy and intuitive, and also an endearing sense of fun to be had out of its presentation and "homemade" graphics. But if you're not the one spending hours thinking of an awesome level design then you're trawling through hundreds of user-created stages, and while there are some truly awesome levels made already you probably have to spend some time to get them all and get what it's really all about.

There is a single-player mode with pre-made stages I guess... but then doesn't that fly in the face of what the game is supposed to be all about for the casuals? If they wanted a platformer to enjoy they'd more likely buy some licensed Spongebob tosh than this game.

It simplifies stage creation into an interactive, freeform environment that does its best to provoke creativity - and definitely this is what my impressions of it are and I know if I had a PS3 and a copy of this game then I'd be all over it like Simon Cowell is over an extra pair of high-waistline trousers, but in the end it still seems like a lot of hard work for Joe Average.

Maybe it's something for Sony to work on getting across? I don't know what the advertising is like in the US, but I've not seen a single advert for it in the UK let alone anything that even hints at the utterly massive potential hiding under the cover of this game. For all intents and purposes on the surface of it the game looks like a typical platformer with a cute lick of paint.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Oops dp.

 

[Private Hoffman]

you know there is all this big talk of LittleBigPlanet being casual friendly, but in truth it sounds like something that takes as much dedication and effort to get anything out of as sticking a copy of Half-Life and Worldcraft on a disk and selling that on games console.

The potential for stuff to be made is nigh-on limitless and streamlined to the console's strengths so it is easy and intuitive, and also an endearing sense of fun to be had out of its presentation and "homemade" graphics. But if you're not the one spending hours thinking of an awesome level design then you're trawling through hundreds of user-created stages, and while there are some truly awesome levels made already you probably have to spend some time to get them all and get what it's really all about.

There is a single-player mode with pre-made stages I guess... but then doesn't that fly in the face of what the game is supposed to be all about for the casuals? If they wanted a platformer to enjoy they'd more likely buy some licensed Spongebob tosh than this game.

It simplifies stage creation into an interactive, freeform environment that does its best to provoke creativity - and definitely this is what my impressions of it are and I know if I had a PS3 and a copy of this game then I'd be all over it like Simon Cowell is over an extra pair of high-waistline trousers, but in the end it still seems like a lot of hard work for Joe Average.

Maybe it's something for Sony to work on getting across? I don't know what the advertising is like in the US, but I've not seen a single advert for it in the UK let alone anything that even hints at the utterly massive potential hiding under the cover of this game. For all intents and purposes on the surface of it the game looks like a typical platformer with a cute lick of paint.

Huh?

A cheaply made spongebob game is no substitute for a good platformer.

Secondly, the single player campaign doesn't fly in the face of what the game is supposed to be about. The single player acts as a template for what good level design is. It also allows you, and up to 3 other friends, to cooperatively play the levels together in order to collect the items that are available in create mode.

For the casuals that do not want to create levels, the story mode allows them to play very good ones together with friends. That being said, I do think some casuals will have an interest in making levels. There are lots of kids out there that would love the opportunity to make their own worlds, regardless of if they get very far or if they're good or not. As hardcore gamers, some look at the creation approach as being daunting because we're too afraid of making bad levels, but some people just like to tinker and explore without making anything great.

 

[manueldelalas]

We'll see.

Guitar Hero's popularity grew due to word of mouth. It wasn't instantly popular either.

I'm not sure if next month's sales will tell us one way or the other. LBP is a game that will likely see a lot of support from Media Molecule, and hardcore user levels that amaze may end up tipping some people over the edge in terms of buying the title if they see more of what the community does in an online article or something. It's certainly a title that could be a slow burner. But just how much of a burn, we'll have to end up seeing.

My hope is that the game carries due to word of mouth just like Uncharted did. Uncharted didn't do all that well when it released last November (~100k or so?) but in December it ended up selling 200k or so. I'd like to see LBP sell 500k in the US by the end of the year. For the type of game it is, the audience, and the price of the PS3, that would be really great US sales.

The main thing going against it is the platform's typical audience and the cost. LBP would be huge on the Wii.

I've thought that game would be highly successful as a DSI lunch title.

(Don't get me wrong, I am a Nintendo fan and I know LBP has amazing physics and internet usage blah blah blah, things that couldn't be possible on a simple DS; but imagine the same idea; use the new SD card slot for level storage, touch screen for building and navigating quicker the levels when building; the cameras could be used like the eye toy, to snap the textures on the go; the wireless capabilities would help to play the game with 3 more people easily, and it's possible to share levels on the internet).

 

[dammitmattt]

I own all 3 consoles with a lot of games for all of them. I don't exactly understand of what you mean by examples but in my opinion there are a lot of HD games that have scored high just because they look good and are technically wel crafted while they incorperate old gameplay mechanics. Some of these even go backward in terms of gameplay like GTA 4. I never said that Nintendo is not guilty of this. Mario Galaxy is probably the most overrated game here but so is GTA 4, Fall Out 3 or Halo 3 and a lot of others.

Have you played Fallout 3? It doesn't fit your criteria at all. Also, Halo 3 and GTA4 are still great games, despite the inevitable backlash. Reviewers overrating AAA games from big franchises is as old as the industry. It's not something endemic to the HD consoles, which is why your point from your previous post holds no water.

Western devs have invested a lot of money in game technology while they forget that games are for entertainment purposes. Good physics and graphics can be entertaining for the player but new gameplay ideas have a much bigger impact (See Wii line games)

They sure as hell didn't forget. Western devs are at the top of their game more than ever. What exactly are you talking about?!?

 

[DCharlie]

while really different approaches (wii sports for example) get low scores

i think you need to seperate 'different approaches' from 'compelling content'

You can't just have a good idea and then not have the games to go along with it.

For me this is the massive difference between the Wii and the DS. As a long term gamer, i got used to the new control method quickly on both machines and then i wanted the content that really pushed that new idea.

For me, that has YET to happen on the Wii - Wii Sports gave a glimpse of how it could be fun, but hell - we've not seen much since. The DS however nailed down some interesting ideas quickly. Again, i can understand how the casual market loves the new inovation of waggle, but for the hardcore/dedicated player it's simply not going to wash on its own and i think that's why the Wii is failing to set the hardcore fans wild.

I was incredibly pro-Wii when it launched but the good content has been few and far between and i'm now at the point where i can't remember the last time i powered up the machine.

 

[GenericPseudonym]

Way too early to judge MS2 / MSPR sales. It hasn't even been out for a whole month yet and most of its sales will be originated in Europe. Also, it was released just a week ago in Europe, and not even everywhere.

The "legs" of Motorstorm was in bundling it with practically every PS3 available to the consumer, hell where I live, it got to a point where it was impossible to buy a PS3 without getting Motorstorm.

 

[dammitmattt]

yeah the funny thing is wii sports is the most successful sports games ever and yet the so called sports games fans just ignore it..

another proof that hardcore gaming is self contained

It's because it's not really a sports game. It's an extremely simple, well-designed mini-game collection, but it doesn't have the depth and online competition that defines the modern sports game. I don't even see them occupying the same market space.

Also, the "hardcore" market that GAF represents is very, very different from the hardcore sports gamer. The typical sports gamer might only buy a few sports games a year, but they are very dedicated and play the shit out of those games.

 

[dammitmattt]

We'll see.

Guitar Hero's popularity grew due to word of mouth. It wasn't instantly popular either.

I'm not sure if next month's sales will tell us one way or the other. LBP is a game that will likely see a lot of support from Media Molecule, and hardcore user levels that amaze may end up tipping some people over the edge in terms of buying the title if they see more of what the community does in an online article or something. It's certainly a title that could be a slow burner. But just how much of a burn, we'll have to end up seeing.

My hope is that the game carries due to word of mouth just like Uncharted did. Uncharted didn't do all that well when it released last November (~100k or so?) but in December it ended up selling 200k or so. I'd like to see LBP sell 500k in the US by the end of the year. For the type of game it is, the audience, and the price of the PS3, that would be really great US sales.

The main thing going against it is the platform's typical audience and the cost. LBP would be huge on the Wii.

What's with you and bad comparisons today? LBP is a 2D physics-based platformer with mushy controls. It's much less universal than music.

And I'm not convinced that LBP would've been more or less successful on any of the three platforms. It's just not as universally appealing as everyone hoped it would be. My 2D platformer-loving wife loves the art style, but doesn't like to actually play it due to the controls. It's not nearly pick-up-and-play friendly like Mario is.

 

[HK-47]

I'm a fan of Nintendo and all, but if a game like Mirror's Edge or Bioshock was brought to Wii instead of the HD consoles, I would probably think twice to purchasing it unless I heard it had great gameplay as well. Even if i purchased the game cause it got rave reviews, the inevitable graphical downgrade would make me wonder how it COULD've looked.

Just from videos only, I want to buy Mirror Edge cause of the look and feel to it; the impact of how a game looks and "flows" in motion (and music lol) has always been a good deciding factor on a game purchase for me. And I think it IS a selling point for games out there that actually want to sell and stand out from their competitors.

Great gameplay can exist on ALL the consoles, but some Nintendo fans need to understand that it doesn't mean great or high-end graphics have to be sacrificed for it. I think once Wii gets that "wants to break new ground" game is when a lot of those hardcore Nintendo console only gamers will realize the desire for stronger hardware (like a dev steps up and makes a Battle of the Collosus-scale game).

And yes, i understand the graphics hardware in the Wii was purposefully kept "low-end" in order to keep it reasonably priced to new consumers (since it is marketed towards new gamers atm), which is one of the big reasons it's winning the console war inthe first place.

IF Wii is the only place to get it, then I have no idea why you would pass it up since the hypothetical HD version doesnt exist to get in the way.

 

[dammitmattt]

even the slightest innovation (like putting bikes in a racing game or the ability to view out of a taxi window or stuff like that) is getting a helluva praise in the gaming press while really different approaches (wii sports for example) get low scores

Wii Sports is an incredibly unique and new experience, but it's basically a tech demo that's fun for anyone for 30 minutes but instantly gets old for anyone looking for more than that.

That's why it got poor scores. It's a proof-of-concept made to sell the console. It's not much of an actual game.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

What's with you and bad comparisons today? LBP is a 2D physics-based platformer with mushy controls. It's much less universal than music.

And I'm not convinced that LBP would've been more or less successful on any of the three platforms. It's just not as universally appealing as everyone hoped it would be. My 2D platformer-loving wife loves the art style, but doesn't like to actually play it due to the controls. It's not nearly pick-up-and-play friendly like Mario is.

I have to agree. I think the faux 3d and floaty physics hurt the game as a top notch platformer. Having one dimension to work with would make made the game far more accessible.

 

[HK-47]

Both games are comparable.

PGR and Motorstorm are racing games
PGR3 and Motorstorm were launch titles and sold well
PGR4 and Motorstorm 2 were released two years later and sold like shit.

PGR4 was sent to die being launched in the shadow of Halo 3 with little advertising, after Forza 2 and right before another popular arcade racer, Need for Speed.

 

[Brashnir]

i think you need to seperate 'different approaches' from 'compelling content'

You can't just have a good idea and then not have the games to go along with it.

For me this is the massive difference between the Wii and the DS. As a long term gamer, i got used to the new control method quickly on both machines and then i wanted the content that really pushed that new idea.

For me, that has YET to happen on the Wii - Wii Sports gave a glimpse of how it could be fun, but hell - we've not seen much since. The DS however nailed down some interesting ideas quickly. Again, i can understand how the casual market loves the new inovation of waggle, but for the hardcore/dedicated player it's simply not going to wash on its own and i think that's why the Wii is failing to set the hardcore fans wild.

I was incredibly pro-Wii when it launched but the good content has been few and far between and i'm now at the point where i can't remember the last time i powered up the machine.

Not only has the good content been few and far between - I can't think of a single Wii game that I liked, other than Wii Sports Bowling, that wouldn't have worked just as well, or in most cases better on a regular controller.

 

[dammitmattt]

Not only has the good content been few and far between - I can't think of a single Wii game that I liked, other than Wii Sports Bowling, that wouldn't have worked just as well, or in most cases better on a regular controller.

Boom Blox is the only one I have.

 

[kbear]

I really wish gaming could return to this magical time, when all games were 25 hour long, endlessly replayable totally innovative masterpieces with no glitches or slowdown (hint: it never existed).

Your view of what makes a 'good' HD game is ridiculous by the way, not to mention confusing. If all these devs simply make overrated shiny pieces of shit, why do you want their games on Wii? A console which is (and has been opportunistically pointed out repeatedly in this topic) more expensive than the baseline 360 despite having massively inferior versions of multiplatform games. Because you feel that you're entitled by picking the winning horse? Or because you want to join in on one of the usual GAF bitter tears topics?

Or is it simply that you're more in love with your console than the games themselves?

Being on Wii isn't going to magically make Bioshock, or GTA, or Devil May Cry, or Final Fantasy - or any one of the dozens of HD exclusives you've convinced yourself you don't want or need - any more fun, or make them a better experience.

The casual Wii fan, the people keeping Wii Fit and Wii Play at the top of the charts, I can't blame them for their indifference. These games aren't for them. The self-righteous Nintendo horde though, who hope against hope that every great game that's not on a Nintendo console flops so it'll be like the NES days all over again - you guys are a sad lot.

And as long as there is a potential to have a breakout on the HD side, there are plenty of publishers willing to let you wallow in your game-starved bitterness.

This is honestly one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum. I mean, you just completely nailed it.

 

[Private Hoffman]

What's with you and bad comparisons today? LBP is a 2D physics-based platformer with mushy controls. It's much less universal than music.

And I'm not convinced that LBP would've been more or less successful on any of the three platforms. It's just not as universally appealing as everyone hoped it would be. My 2D platformer-loving wife loves the art style, but doesn't like to actually play it due to the controls. It's not nearly pick-up-and-play friendly like Mario is.

Yeah, LBP is a terrible platformer that you're downplaying and has no casual appeal. It sucks, etc. Game is a bomb and has no appeal. Mario is way better. yadda yadda yadda

I get it.

The controls are fine to me and many of the friends I play with online, sorry they're not for you, or your 2D platformer loving wife. To say it's not very pick up and play is a joke.

The point of my comparison was to not say that it would inevitably lead to Guitar Hero levels of success. My point was that it could grow in popularity over time just like Guitar Hero did. I'm sorry you did not catch that distinction the first time.

 

[Mr. Mister]

I hope that is the case because it really deserves to do well. The game is fuck-awesome and I can never, ever go back to dual analog for FPS or TPS. Nailing people with the M1 from across the map without a scope is Godly.

I just hope that the Wii gets CoD6 as IW is making it.

Damn you are going to be missing out on some great games then.

 

[chespace]

Not only has the good content been few and far between - I can't think of a single Wii game that I liked, other than Wii Sports Bowling, that wouldn't have worked just as well, or in most cases better on a regular controller.

Let's face it, the Wii is just a really undesirable scenario for any hardcore gamer.

Underpowered hardware, low release frequency, and a small library of quality games to choose from comparatively.

I'm very happy Nintendo has found its new calling, but at the same time, I'm sad for all hardcore gamers who only own a Wii this generation.

Honestly, I doubt there are very many Wii-only owners out there who are hardcore gamers, unless, of course, they're no longer as hardcore and hungry as they used to be.

 

[Private Hoffman]

Let's face it, the Wii is just a really undesirable scenario for any hardcore gamer.

Underpowered hardware, low release frequency, and a small library of quality games to choose from comparatively.

I'm very happy Nintendo has found its new calling, but at the same time, I'm sad for all hardcore gamers who only own a Wii this generation.

Honestly, I doubt there are very many Wii-only owners out there who are hardcore gamers, unless, of course, they're no longer as hardcore and hungry as they used to be.

I agree. I'm a pretty hardcore gamer and purchased the Wii exclusively for the staple Nintendo franchises and little else.

They had a decent first year, but so far the rest of their lineup has been disappointing from a hardcore perspective.

Nintendo is all about expanding audiences. The success of Wii Fit basically confirms this. There are a lot of people out there buying Wii for a select few games and see it more of like a boardgame. Outside of the hardcore nintendo fanbase, they are not attracting people that regularly play games or are even remotely interested in playing most games.

Nintendo's phenomenal success is GREAT for Nintendo, and some other third parties that create similarly casual experiences. But for everyone else that approaches gaming from a traditional perspective, they will not have much success on there. I honestly have no clue why anyone would want to play Call of Duty on a Wii when there are other (better) options out there.

 

[schuelma]

Round and round we go, where it ends, nobody knows....


Don't you people on all sides get sick of just arguing the same shit page after page?

 

[schuelma]

The success of Wii Fit basically confirms this. There are a lot of people out there buying Wii for a select few games and see it more of like a boardgame. Outside of the hardcore nintendo fanbase, they are not attracting people that regularly play games or are even remotely interested in playing most games.

It's really too bad I just made the above post because I have to much to say to this. :lol

 

[Cromat]

shiny.. yes

Pieces of shit.. no

of course the games are good

they are polished to death.. they are only incorporating the creme ala creme of gaming development history..

the problem is.. its the safe way...

even the slightest innovation (like putting bikes in a racing game or the ability to view out of a taxi window or stuff like that) is getting a helluva praise in the gaming press while really different approaches (wii sports for example) get low scores

whats the end of this

every game looks generic and the same.. how many shooters are competing each year.... i know they are popular and all but i think people that dont necessarily like shooters want to play games too... and those people buy the wii.. simple as that

And yet a game like The Conduit gets a ton of attention here, people are practically starved for something of this sort.
I wonder, if Gears of War 3 was announced on Wii, would any Wii fan dare call it 'generic grey space-marine shooter'?
(I mentioned Gears of War specifically because I too thought it was a generic macho-marine shooter with shitty one-liner characters and dumb aliens. It is a machi-marine shooter with shitty one-liner characters and dumb aliens but it's also what I consider one of the most satisfying action game ever made.)

 

[HK-47]

And yet a game like The Conduit gets a ton of attention here, people are practically starved for something of this sort.
I wonder, if Gears of War 3 was announced on Wii, would any Wii fan dare call it 'generic grey space-marine shooter'?
(I mentioned Gears of War specifically because I too thought it was a generic macho-marine shooter with shitty one-liner characters and dumb aliens. It is a machi-marine shooter with shitty one-liner characters and dumb aliens but it's also what I consider one of the most satisfying action game ever made.)

Remember this is farnham we are talking about

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Che, i totally get were you are coming from, and while i am not a Wii only gamer, hearing you constantly tell those who do enjoy the wii (like me) that you feel sorry for us, is pretty annoying. Almost like you are telling us we are wrong in some way. I feel like you are looking down at those who enjoy a different experience from you and i bet it would be a positive thing if you could stop telling us you think we suck.

 

[HK-47]

Che, i totally get were you are coming from, and while i am not a Wii only gamer, hearing you constantly tell those who do enjoy the wii (like me) that you feel sorry for us, is pretty annoying. Almost like you are telling us we are wrong in some way. I feel like you are looking down at those who enjoy a different experience from you and i bet it would be a positive thing if you could stop telling us you think we suck.

Remember this is Che we are talking about

 

[lowlylowlycook]

I agree. I'm a pretty hardcore gamer and purchased the Wii exclusively for the staple Nintendo franchises and little else.

They had a decent first year, but so far the rest of their lineup has been disappointing from a hardcore perspective.

Nintendo is all about expanding audiences. The success of Wii Fit basically confirms this. There are a lot of people out there buying Wii for a select few games and see it more of like a boardgame. Outside of the hardcore nintendo fanbase, they are not attracting people that regularly play games or are even remotely interested in playing most games.

Nintendo's phenomenal success is GREAT for Nintendo, and some other third parties that create similarly casual experiences. But for everyone else that approaches gaming from a traditional perspective, they will not have much success on there. I honestly have no clue why anyone would want to play Call of Duty on a Wii when there are other (better) options out there.

First the Wii's attach rate is higher than the PS3's and only marginally lower than the 360's at the same time after launch so how is the Wii like a boardgame?

Second if someone wanted to play Call of Duty on a "better option" they'd buy it on PC, right? I mean lol, the PS3 can't even run it at 720p?

 

[jman2050]

I swear we covered this argument in detail 12 pages ago or so.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Che, i totally get were you are coming from, and while i am not a Wii only gamer, hearing you constantly tell those who do enjoy the wii (like me) that you feel sorry for us, is pretty annoying. Almost like you are telling us we are wrong in some way. I feel like you are looking down at those who enjoy a different experience from you and i bet it would be a positive thing if you could stop telling us you think we suck.

Che Chou being arrogant? This is unprecedented!

 

[schuelma]

I swear we covered this argument in detail 12 pages ago or so.

We did

And we covered it last month

And in August

And in July

And in June

And in May

And in April

etc., etc.

I imagine we'll be arguing this until the next generation, and then people will talk about how the Wii's lineup was really underrated and loads better than Wii 2 which is Nintendo abandoning their core gamers, Wii Food is a disgrace, etc. etc. etc.


And the Circle will begin again

 

[Scrubking]

I swear we covered this argument in detail 12 pages ago or so.

Sometimes one round isn't enough to ease the Wii hater's pain.

There, there boys. Let it out. Let it all out. You'll feel better soon.

 

[Mr. Mister]

First the Wii's attach rate is higher than the PS3's and only marginally lower than the 360's at the same time after launch so how is the Wii like a boardgame?

This attach rate number is such a garbage argument. First you have to factor in Wii Play which drops the number. Secondly I wonder what percentage of that attach ratio are Nintendo games?

 

[MisterHero]

And yet a game like The Conduit gets a ton of attention here, people are practically starved for something of this sort.
I wonder, if Gears of War 3 was announced on Wii, would any Wii fan dare call it 'generic grey space-marine shooter'?
(I mentioned Gears of War specifically because I too thought it was a generic macho-marine shooter with shitty one-liner characters and dumb aliens. It is a machi-marine shooter with shitty one-liner characters and dumb aliens but it's also what I consider one of the most satisfying action game ever made.)

Yes

 

[jvm]

This attach rate number is such a garbage argument. First you have to factor in Wii Play which drops the number. Secondly I wonder what percentage of that attach ratio are Nintendo games?

Someone should make a chart.

 

[HK-47]

This attach rate number is such a garbage argument. First you have to factor in Wii Play which drops the number. Secondly I wonder what percentage of that attach ratio are Nintendo games?

Oh dear this argument again.

Its a cycle.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

This attach rate number is such a garbage argument. First you have to factor in Wii Play which drops the number. Secondly I wonder what percentage of that attach ratio are Nintendo games?

Wow, no one has thought to ask how 3rd parties are doing on the Wii yet. Good question, I'll have to get back to you on that.

And attach rates are a pretty stupid argument until some fool comes in here arguing that Wii owners don't buy games but then they are pretty useful.

 

[dammitmattt]

Yeah, LBP is a terrible platformer that you're downplaying and has no casual appeal. It sucks, etc. Game is a bomb and has no appeal. Mario is way better. yadda yadda yadda

I get it.

The controls are fine to me and many of the friends I play with online, sorry they're not for you, or your 2D platformer loving wife. To say it's not very pick up and play is a joke.

The point of my comparison was to not say that it would inevitably lead to Guitar Hero levels of success. My point was that it could grow in popularity over time just like Guitar Hero did. I'm sorry you did not catch that distinction the first time.

It's still a bad comparison because Guitar Hero was a little indie release from a tiny developer that was completely sold through word of mouth. LittleBigPlanet is a huge tent pole release from Sony. I know Media Molecule's core team is small, but this was a big-budget game with 10 pages of credits in the instruction manual. It's had a HUGE amount of hype since it was first shown. I still don't see the comparison.

Also, to clarify, I like LittleBigPlanet. I don't love it like I thought I would and I've only had fun during a very small percentage of my time browsing levels online, but I've still enjoyed myself. And this is despite floaty controls (partly due to physics, partly due to the analog sticks) that are undeniably less friendly and precise than most 16-bit 2D platformers. My point isn't that it's not a good game for us, but it's definitely not as casual-friendly as it should've been.

 

[DCharlie]

Yeah, LBP is a terrible platformer that you're downplaying and has no casual appeal

it's not a terrible platformer and the game itself is so insanely well put together and FUN etc, the problem is the CASUAL APPEAL angle of the argument.

It's still early days but the anecdotal evidence presented pre-LBP has , unfortunately, failed to convert into sales... (at least, not yet)

As i said previously, the game is a whole barrel of awesome, but that means nothing to the casuals out there.

My point was that it could grow in popularity over time just like Guitar Hero did

it could - but will it?
We could say this about a whole slew of games can't we?

 

[dammitmattt]

Nintendo is all about expanding audiences. The success of Wii Fit basically confirms this. There are a lot of people out there buying Wii for a select few games and see it more of like a board game. Outside of the hardcore nintendo fanbase, they are not attracting people that regularly play games or are even remotely interested in playing most games.

While I disagree with most of what you've said in this thread, this "board game analogy" is an argument I've been making for the past year and a half after seeing that exact scenario play out for all of the "non-gamer" Wii owners that I know. And it's not an insult. It puts more money into the industry, which is good for everyone. Many people viewed their PS2 in the same way, but the difference there is that the Wii has many more family- and female-friendly titles (like Wii Fit) that further expand the audience beyond anything the PS2 ever did.

 

[dammitmattt]

Someone should make a chart.

What's awesome about that chart is that it's right after Halo 3's release, yet Microsoft's 1st party tie ratio was still only 1.4, meaning that it was possibly less than 1 before September. And people wonder why third parties like the 360.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

This is honestly one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum. I mean, you just completely nailed it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13624186&highlight=nailed it&postcount=1754
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13552080&highlight=nailed it&postcount=107
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12172897&highlight=nailed it&postcount=222
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12082744&highlight=nailed it&postcount=94
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12030609&highlight=nailed it&postcount=41
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11467720&highlight=nailed it&postcount=63
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11467574&highlight=nailed it&postcount=55
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11349288&highlight=nailed it&postcount=109
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11283437&highlight=nailed it&postcount=252
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11259116&highlight=nailed it&postcount=53
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11251049&highlight=nailed it&postcount=540
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11100791&highlight=nailed it&postcount=114
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10285781&highlight=nailed it&postcount=769
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10189095&highlight=nailed it&postcount=256
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10139786&highlight=nailed it&postcount=141
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9987537&highlight=nailed it&postcount=120
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9978342&highlight=nailed it&postcount=87
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9941057&highlight=nailed it&postcount=190
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9853455&highlight=nailed it&postcount=204
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9801786&highlight=nailed it&postcount=286
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9715318&highlight=nailed it&postcount=148
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9715067&highlight=nailed it&postcount=139
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9665500&highlight=nailed it&postcount=206
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9650097&highlight=nailed it&postcount=327
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9635781&highlight=nailed it&postcount=2294
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9500301&highlight=nailed it&postcount=12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9387144&highlight=nailed it&postcount=4493
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9240952&highlight=nailed it&postcount=1174
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9023585&highlight=nailed it&postcount=381


did you get lost on the way to nail gun age forums or something

 

[_Alkaline_]

This whole argument is so tired. Seriously GAF, you're getting boring. It's the same thing every month. NPD numbers come out, Nintendo dominates, GAFers talk about why the console sucks and how much better the HD consoles are and how their Wii is collecting dust and how it's only for casuals and how motion controls are inferior and how Nintendo are killing gaming and before you know it, it's next month's NPD and we do it all over again! Fun!

 

[neoanarch]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13624186&highlight=nailed it&postcount=1754
*links*

did you get lost on the way to nail gun age forums or something

hes really hammering for title.

 

[dammitmattt]

This whole argument is so tired. Seriously GAF, you're getting boring. It's the same thing every month. NPD numbers come out, Nintendo dominates, GAFers talk about why the console sucks and how much better the HD consoles are and how their Wii is collecting dust and how it's only for casuals and how motion controls are inferior and how Nintendo are killing gaming and before you know it, it's next month's NPD and we do it all over again! Fun!

Are you enjoying the slew of awesome Wii releases this fall?

 

[DogWelder]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13624186&highlight=nailed it&postcount=1754
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13552080&highlight=nailed it&postcount=107

**snip**

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9023585&highlight=nailed it&postcount=381

:lol

Dare I say you nailed it? No I don't, because that would be lame.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Are you enjoying the slew of awesome Wii releases this fall?

I've said on countless occassions that Nintendo's holiday 2008 output sucks ass.

Does it deserve critcism? Absolutely. There's a lot of problems with the Wii. But seriously, do I have to hear the same things every single month? It never changes, and it's getting pretty damn tiring.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

Are you enjoying the slew of awesome Wii releases this fall?

But what does that have to do with these NPD results? Are you saying that Wii sales will slow down without some more games? Will Wii owners turn to the 360 or PS3 out of sheer boredom?

I just don't see how everyone's personal opinions about the consoles are that important in a sales thread.

 

[byproduct]

What's with you and bad comparisons today? LBP is a 2D physics-based platformer with mushy controls. It's much less universal than music.

And I'm not convinced that LBP would've been more or less successful on any of the three platforms. It's just not as universally appealing as everyone hoped it would be. My 2D platformer-loving wife loves the art style, but doesn't like to actually play it due to the controls. It's not nearly pick-up-and-play friendly like Mario is.

I played LBP for the first time at a store today. Someone had left the game at this section where a big character tells you to grab onto a "bird". There was a barrel with wings suspended in front of a tall ledge, so I assumed that was the "bird".

I stood frustrated as a 10-12 year old boy who was playing the game kept on jumping into the barrel and getting nowhere. I left and looked at games. I came back to find a man playing, still stuck in the same place, unable to figure out what to do. He left.

My turn. I tried all the face buttons and shoulder buttons to see what they did. Looked like there was a jump button and the rest just brought up various menus or did nothing. OK.

I spent 5 minutes lining myself up with the barrel, jumping under it, next to it, into it, attempted to get on top of it by jump-bouncing off the cliff (seems you can't jump off a slope?) Paused to see if there was an explanation of the controls (no). Tried climbing onto the nearby character to see if I could jump off him to get on top of the barrel (no). And then FINALLY, I figured out that one of the shoulder buttons causes the character to grab something if you are touching it. I was able o grab the barrel and ride it to the top of the ledge.

There really needs to be a grasping animation when you touch that button to tell you it does *something*.

I played for a bit and started to enjoy it. Then a little girl asked if she could try. I gave her the controller and told her which buttons to use, but she was hopeless - couldn't make platform jumps or avoid enemies. The character was too cumbersome for her. She gave up after a few minutes and left.

The game *looks* inviting to pick up, but it seems that it's just too difficult to control for casual gamers in those first few crucial minutes when hey decide whether the game is "fun" or not. If it's not fun straight away, casuals don't stick around to see if things get better.

When they make the sequel, they really need to get the action controls onto the face buttons, keep the menu buttons on the shoulders, and give the characters an animation for each action even if the action is useless when you try to use it.

Even then, I'm not sure the character's inertia will ever be a casual-friendly, pick-up-and-play mechanic.

After trying it out, I totally see how this game could not do as well as everyone thought it might.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

This whole argument is so tired. Seriously GAF, you're getting boring. It's the same thing every month. NPD numbers come out, Nintendo dominates, GAFers talk about why the console sucks and how much better the HD consoles are and how their Wii is collecting dust and how it's only for casuals and how motion controls are inferior and how Nintendo are killing gaming and before you know it, it's next month's NPD and we do it all over again! Fun!

Spoiler

Nailed it.