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[Segata Sanshiro]

Amir0x and I don't always fall on the same sides of arguments, but he's right, dudes.

Anyone who's been here long enough knows that we essentially have the same discussions about the same topics over and over again, just with some new faces, and a few fewer old faces. If you're tired of riding the Merry-Go-Round, get off. It's not like there are enough topics to discuss in any hobby to infinitely generate completely new/fresh topics, and any situation worth debating is going to more or less end up with the same talking points on each side, no matter how many times you run it.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

What I mean was that the people who praise the Wii and bash the 360/PS3 in these threads are just as bad as the people who praise the 360/PS3 and bash Nintendo's console. Of course, you see a lot more of the latter than the former.

And I'm not saying some of those criticisms aren't justified either. But everytime I walk into an NPD thread I know that soon enough someone's going to say "Why is the Wii selling so well? I haven't played mine since May!" and from there we have the same arguments we did 3 months ago. Wii lineup sucks, HD consoles only have brown shooters, waggle is bad, etc.

I like negativity. It keeps things balanced. This place would be boring if we just kept praising the same things all the time. But at the same time, constant negativity on the same subject can be just as bad. And that's what we're getting in these threads.

It wouldn't be so bad if we actually resolved some of these arguments (at least to an extent) and had new arguments instead. But we're still arguing about the same things we did last year.

Maybe these comments are repeated so because they are true.

No-one is forcing you to read this thread, by the way, or to respond to people talking about things other than numbers.

 

[Amir0x]

how can we resolve the arguments? They're personal opinions, to be had until something changes and allows you to hold a different opinion.

Like my opinion used to be 'Wii's library is awful', but now it is 'Wii's library is unremarkable.' But, this debate is going to be raging on... I hate to break it to you... until the next systems come out. And then the debate will rage about those.

FOREVER...and EVER...and EVER!

Edit: I agree with Segata who is agreeing with me right now o)
Edit2: I agree with Ironic who says IGNORE THE POSTS you don't like to read. You don't need to ignore the poster to ignore what they are saying. Self-control!

 

[chespace]

You want to "resolve" arguments involving personal taste in games? :lol

Why are you at GAF again?

 

[Amir0x]

I'll resolve this fucking argument right now.

My taste is the best. GAME OVVVVVVVVVER

 

[HK-47]

how can we resolve the arguments? They're personal opinions, to be had until something changes and allows you to hold a different opinion.

Like my opinion used to be 'Wii's library is awful', but now it is 'Wii's library is unremarkable.' But, this debate is going to be raging on... I hate to break it to you... until the next systems come out. And then the debate will rage about those.

FOREVER...and EVER...and EVER!

Edit: I agree with Segata who is agreeing with me right now o)
Edit2: I agree with Ironic who says IGNORE THE POSTS you don't like to read. You don't need to ignore the poster to ignore what they are saying. Self-control!

 

[schuelma]

Amir0x and I don't always fall on the same sides of arguments, but he's right, dudes.

Anyone who's been here long enough knows that we essentially have the same discussions about the same topics over and over again, just with some new faces, and a few fewer old faces. If you're tired of riding the Merry-Go-Round, get off. It's not like there are enough topics to discuss in any hobby to infinitely generate completely new/fresh topics, and any situation worth debating is going to more or less end up with the same talking points on each side, no matter how many times you run it.

I realize how it works here, I just *ideally* wish that NPD threads were a bit more like Media Create, where the focus seems to be tighter on the actual sales.

 

[Amir0x]

maybe you guys can manufacture some creepy poster who streams an endless amount of charts and graphs for the NPD thread if you want to really discussion sales even more

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You want to "resolve" arguments involving personal taste in games? :lol

Why are you at GAF again?

I love forums exactly for this kind of stuff.

It's fun arguing with people that you think are batshit insane!

I'm on the Segata Ami side of this. More arguing!

Why did I have to not like Mass Effect? I will say I'm addicted to Luxor 2 tho. And everyone loves some Uno!

 

[schuelma]

maybe you guys can manufacture some creepy poster who streams an endless amount of charts and graphs for the NPD thread if you want to really discussion sales even more

:lol :lol :lol

NAILED IT

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

I realize how it works here, I just *ideally* wish that NPD threads were a bit more like Media Create, where the focus seems to be tighter on the actual sales.

The numbers aren't all that interesting anymore, especially hardware wise. The Wii sells some high number, and PS3 and 360 dance around mediocrity with few surprises along the way. I can't imagine 60 pages of valid, interesting discussion based on that alone.

 

[Yes Boss!]

So,

Anybody have any projections for Animal Crossing City Folks?

I've a feeling it is going to woefully underperform.

 

[flintstryker]

I realize how it works here, I just *ideally* wish that NPD threads were a bit more like Media Create, where the focus seems to be tighter on the actual sales.

I use to wish i could fly...just saying...

 

[schuelma]

The numbers aren't all that interesting anymore, especially hardware wise. The Wii sells some high number, and PS3 and 360 dance around mediocrity with few surprises along the way. I can't imagine 60 pages of valid, interesting discussion based on that alone.

Lots of interesting software numbers though, but yeah, you're right- it would be a lot smaller of a thread.

 

[HK-47]

I realize how it works here, I just *ideally* wish that NPD threads were a bit more like Media Create, where the focus seems to be tighter on the actual sales.

There is less to spin with more data, weekly threads, and less posts so that the good sales agers dont get drown out by system warz. The whole data thing is the same reason a lot of fanboys choose the Euro threads compared to the MC threads as well.

 

[Amir0x]

I love forums exactly for this kind of stuff.

It's fun arguing with people that you think are batshit insane!

I'm on the Segata Ami side of this. More arguing!

Why did I have to not like Mass Effect? I will say I'm addicted to Luxor 2 tho. And everyone loves some Uno!

I do love some Uno.

Actually i should play some more of that on XBLA :lol

 

[Thunder Monkey]

The numbers aren't all that interesting anymore, especially hardware wise. The Wii sells some high number, and PS3 and 360 dance around mediocrity with few surprises along the way. I can't imagine 60 pages of valid, interesting discussion based on that alone.

We need a shake up!

2009 needs to be the year of the PS3 to continue interesting discussion!

It won't be though... and we'll continue to have these arguments as more and more titles are brought to the Wii, are a success, and continues the downward spiral of Wiihaters.

And I will sit back and laugh at the heel of Segata and his manqueen Amirox.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

Lots of interesting software numbers though, but yeah, you're right- it would be a lot smaller of a thread.

I agree, but at the same time I don't resent people for going a little off topic.

 

[Amir0x]

That's manBITCH to you, Thunder Monkey

 

[Haunted]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13624186&highlight=nailed it&postcount=1754
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13552080&highlight=nailed it&postcount=107
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12172897&highlight=nailed it&postcount=222
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9987537&highlight=nailed it&postcount=120
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9978342&highlight=nailed it&postcount=87
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9941057&highlight=nailed it&postcount=190
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9853455&highlight=nailed it&postcount=204
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9801786&highlight=nailed it&postcount=286
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9665500&highlight=nailed it&postcount=206
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9650097&highlight=nailed it&postcount=327
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9635781&highlight=nailed it&postcount=2294
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9500301&highlight=nailed it&postcount=12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9387144&highlight=nailed it&postcount=4493
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9240952&highlight=nailed it&postcount=1174
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9023585&highlight=nailed it&postcount=381


did you get lost on the way to nail gun age forums or something

boo-urns :lol

 

[Scrubking]

Matters aren't helped when within 5 minutes of the numbers we have multiple posts decrying the lack of 3rd party Wii support.

Easy easy target

How is that in any way, shape or form bad or insulting to fans of the other consoles? Idiots who think that they have the sole right to certain devs or games are the problem not people asking for more Wii support.

 

[_Alkaline_]

how can we resolve the arguments? They're personal opinions, to be had until something changes and allows you to hold a different opinion.

Like my opinion used to be 'Wii's library is awful', but now it is 'Wii's library is unremarkable.' But, this debate is going to be raging on... I hate to break it to you... until the next systems come out. And then the debate will rage about those.

FOREVER...and EVER...and EVER!

Edit: I agree with Segata who is agreeing with me right now o)
Edit2: I agree with Ironic who says IGNORE THE POSTS you don't like to read. You don't need to ignore the poster to ignore what they are saying. Self-control!

When I say resolve, I basically mean just stop arguing about them. Obviously you can't actually truly resolve such arguments, since they're founded by personal opinions.

As I said, I like negativity because it keeps things balanced and interesting. Endless praising can be just as bad as endless bashing.

And I love our NPD threads because they can bring out some awesome discussion. But then you've got, for instance, the argument that Wii has poor 3rd party sales, something that has led to billions of posts and charts and figures, and yet amazingly we still argue about it to this very day. That's not so awesome.

Who knows, we'll probably be having this exact same argument six months down the line Ami.

Aaaaaand I'm over it.

 

[Amir0x]

buy a 360 Scrubking

 

[markatisu]

So,

Anybody have any projections for Animal Crossing City Folks?

I've a feeling it is going to woefully underperform.

Its being pushed pretty hard on TV, but then again so was Wii Music and we saw how that ended up.

Anyone know what the GC one and the DS one sold in their first months?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

That's manBITCH to you, Thunder Monkey

NO SIRE!

NOT THE CHOKECHAIN!

*cowers*

Fun times.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

We need a shake up!

2009 needs to be the year of the PS3 to continue interesting discussion!

It won't be though... and we'll continue to have these arguments as more and more titles are brought to the Wii, are a success, and continues the downward spiral of Wiihaters.

And I will sit back and laugh at the heel of Segata and his manqueen Amirox.

Said support still isn't there. A lot of capital has gone into establishing developers ready for the HD era and the difficulties it brings, its hard to imagine some sort of revolt against the PS3 and 360. As an investor, i'd bet on Nintendo, as a gamer, not so much.

 

[Yes Boss!]

Its being pushed pretty hard on TV, but then again so was Wii Music and we saw how that ended up.

Anyone know what the GC one and the DS one sold in their first months?

Yeah, I don't watch TV so I don't know about the advertising. That is good to hear.

I dunno, I've got it ordered with WiiSpeak but I just don't see it having the impact of the Cube or DS games.

 

[schuelma]

I agree, but at the same time I don't resent people for going a little off topic.

I'm probably being a bit too harsh. I've never minded the whole "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" debate- I've engaged in those myself. But I think there's a distinction between someone saying 3rd parties don't sell on Wii and someone saying "Wii has no gamz LOLZ".

 

[Amir0x]

The Cube game didn't really have a massive impact, though. It took the DS game to BLOW up the franchise, I thought

 

[lowlylowlycook]

I love forums exactly for this kind of stuff.

It's fun arguing with people that you think are batshit insane!

I'm on the Segata Ami side of this. More arguing!

Why did I have to not like Mass Effect? I will say I'm addicted to Luxor 2 tho. And everyone loves some Uno!

I must need sleep because I'm not following this. Isn't there a Mass Effect thread that you could post your opinions of that game in? Can't someone hit the new post button, type "The Wii sure has a shitty lineup this Fall" in the subject line and go from there?

And as for creepy people making graphs, I'm pretty sure that PantherLotus made some for this NPD but I'm not re-reading all these pages of nonsense just to find out.

 

[schuelma]

I hope Animal Crossing bombs and Iwata bitchslaps Reggie for not releasing Disaster and Fatal Frame.

Jerk

 

[Yes Boss!]

Can't someone hit the new post button, type "The Wii sure has a shitty lineup this Fall" in the subject line and go from there?

Gary Whitta already did that for you with his Mall photo...should be on the front page, it has already netted the usual subjects.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I hope Animal Crossing bombs and Iwata bitchslaps Reggie for not releasing Disaster and Fatal Frame.

Jerk

Same.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Said support still isn't there. A lot of capital has gone into establishing developers ready for the HD era and the difficulties it brings, its hard to imagine some sort of revolt against the PS3 and 360. As an investor, i'd bet on Nintendo, as a gamer, not so much.

I was meaning almost exclusively Japanese developers. The shift we've been seeing will likely continue at a faster pace until SquareEnix supports it near exclusively. Japanese support for the HD consoles will never dry up completely, but I doubt it will continue as it has.

Nintendo won't gain a foothold with American developers until they've got an easy port machine. Probably WiiHD.

 

[_Alkaline_]

The Cube game didn't really have a massive impact, though. It took the DS game to BLOW up the franchise, I thought

Honestly I think the franchise is more suited to handhelds. It's a real pick-up and play game, the type you might play for 30 minutes once a day. It really lends itself to the nature of the handheld, and I think that played a huge part in WW's success.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

I was meaning almost exclusively Japanese developers. The shift we've been seeing will likely continue at a faster pace until SquareEnix supports it near exclusively. Japanese support for the HD consoles will never dry up completely, but I doubt it will continue as it has.

Nintendo won't gain a foothold with American developers until they've got an easy port machine. Probably WiiHD.

Thats true, outside of the Japanese development studios focused on the west like Capcom and Namco.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Isn't there a Mass Effect thread that you could post your opinions of that game in?

Probably, but I like to layer my ranting or insane posts with something slightly relevant to the topic at hand.

And as for creepy people making graphs, I'm pretty sure that PantherLotus made some for this NPD but I'm not re-reading all these pages of nonsense just to find out.

Pages ago... and they were beautiful!

 

[Amir0x]

oh we have the same creepy poster making graphs for this thread as the Media Create threads? I guess we're all set then

 

[Opiate]

Amir0x and I don't always fall on the same sides of arguments, but he's right, dudes.

Anyone who's been here long enough knows that we essentially have the same discussions about the same topics over and over again, just with some new faces, and a few fewer old faces. If you're tired of riding the Merry-Go-Round, get off. It's not like there are enough topics to discuss in any hobby to infinitely generate completely new/fresh topics, and any situation worth debating is going to more or less end up with the same talking points on each side, no matter how many times you run it.

Quite right.

To the point at hand: on a personal level, I hold a pretty strict divide between industry analysis and personal taste in games, and it's why you'll likely see me defending seemingly widely varying viewpoints in different threads.

I'm profusely bullish about Nintendo's approach from a sales perspective. I think their maneuvering this generation (Both with the DS and Wii) has been masterful. I also think their approach to gaming is the future, whether we like it or not. Also from a sales perspective, I'm much more negative about the PS3/360 approach, and think we'll see a gradual erosion of hardcore mindshare over the next decade, whether Nintendo continues to lead the charge or someone like Microsoft or Sony manages to co-opt them.

From a personal perspective, my tastes in games are so far out of the mainstream that I'm not sure I'm even "hardcore" any more. I'm definitely not casual, but given that most of my favorite games are on PC I'm quite used to being uninvited to the big parties.

I do wish more people could keep that sales/taste divide in mind, because the effortless shifting between arguments about taste and arguments about genuine objective analysis is frustrating to watch. It's a technique used on all sides, too. A great deal of the cyclical nature of these threads derives from this problem: people will oscillate between sales/taste discussions whenever it suits their position.

 

[schuelma]

oh we have the same creepy poster making graphs for this thread as the Media Create threads? I guess we're all set then

I bet if you ask nicely, he could do monthly predictions for you.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

oh we have the same creepy poster making graphs for this thread as the Media Create threads? I guess we're all set then

I don't really know.

I just assumed...

*shrugs*

 

[Link]

I couldn't be happier with how this thread turned out. Now all we need is for Amir0x to show up and it'll really be a party.

 

[Jokeropia]

Wii Sports is an incredibly unique and new experience, but it's basically a tech demo that's fun for anyone for 30 minutes but instantly gets old for anyone looking for more than that.

I couldn't disagree more. I've gotten at least 20-25 hours out of it in just singleplayer. Multiplayer I don't know how much.

Let's face it, the Wii is just a really undesirable scenario for any hardcore gamer.

Underpowered hardware, low release frequency, and a small library of quality games to choose from comparatively.

I'm very happy Nintendo has found its new calling, but at the same time, I'm sad for all hardcore gamers who only own a Wii this generation.

Honestly, I doubt there are very many Wii-only owners out there who are hardcore gamers, unless, of course, they're no longer as hardcore and hungry as they used to be.

Trolls don't get to decide what a hardcore gamer is.

 

[markatisu]

The Cube game didn't really have a massive impact, though. It took the DS game to BLOW up the franchise, I thought

You are correct, the July 2005 NPD listed Animal Crossing as

GCN ANIMAL CROSSING ($443,666.00) 22,277

It was not even in the Top 50 of the NPD that month :lol

GCN titles were not the evergreen sellers we see today on DS and Wii

Can't seem to find the release numbers at the moment

 

[donny2112]

I'd add that Segata runs a pretty tight ship.

I'd add that we actually get numbers, so that instead of arguing over how games outside of the Top 10 could have done, we just say "it sold x copies." Discussion over.



On the third-party Wii games topic, I don't want companies to make games for the Wii instead of the PS360. I want them to make games for the Wii along with the PS360. You know all those mythical small development teams that XBLA, PSN, and WiiWare are their "only hope"? They could all be contracted to port the Wii version of the game being made by the bigger developers. Do it enough, and they might actually get good at it.

 

[markatisu]

Here we go, Animal Crossing did good in its release

NPD Console Hardware and Software Sales for September 2002

PS2 540,000
XBOX 170,000
GAMECUBE 160,000

1 MADDEN NFL 2003 PS2, ELECTRONIC ARTS
2 KINGDOM HEARTS PS2, DISNEY
3 SUPER MARIO SUNSHINE GCN, NINTENDO
4 SOCOM: U.S. NAVY SEALS PS2, SONY
5 TEKKEN 4 PS2, NAMCO
6 STAR FOX ADVENTURES GCN, NINTENDO
7 YU GI OH! DARK DUEL GBC, KONAMI
8 ANIMAL CROSSING GCN, NINTENDO
9 GRAND THEFT AUTO 3 PS2, ROCKSTAR
10 YU GI OH! FORBIDDEN PSX, KONAMI
11 ONIMUSHA 2: SAMURAI'S DESTINY PS2, CAPCOM
12 NCAA FOOTBALL 2003 PS2, ELECTRONIC ARTS
13 TONY HAWK'S PRO SKATER 3 PS2, ACTIVISION
14 YOSHI'S ISLAND: MARIO 3 GBA, NINTENDO
15 GRAN TURISMO 3: A SPEC PS2, SONY
16 DEAD TO RIGHTS XBOX, NAMCO
17 SUPER MARIO ADVANCE 2 GBA, NINTENDO
18 NBA STREET PS2, ELECTRONIC ARTS
19 MEDAL OF HONOR FRONTLINE PS2, ACTIVISION
20 STREET HOOPS PS2, ACTIVISION

Animal Crossing DS finished outside the Top 10 but in the Top 20 (it was the 5th best selling DS game in Dec 2005)

 

[freddy]

LBP stuff

Yea I was looking forward to this game maybe pushing me to buy a PS3 but the floaty physics just killed it for me. It feels like playing a game with a worn out n64 controller.

 

[donny2112]

The Cube game didn't really have a massive impact, though.

It eventually sold a million. I'll add that this is something we would probably never know in this day and age. When a game drops off the Top 10, it might as well never sell another copy as far as we know. :/

 

[Speevy]

Animal Crossing GCN sold a million worldwide, Wild World sold at least 5 times that.

 

[legend166]

I think it's interesting that Wii Music is the first Wii game that GAF seemed to agree was going to sell like crazy, and then it sold poorly.

GAF thinking you'll do well is the kiss of death.