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OK nerds, you win. Song of Ice and Fire is gud.

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F

FredFish

Member
Anyone have ideas on where the Blackfish (and don't forget Raynald Westerling) might turn up? The Vale seems like the obvious choice.
Click to expand...

Knowing Littlefinger I think you might want to look a little bit to the west of the Vale. There is an old stronghold (which LF has been conviniently been given title to) which would provide an excellent base to rally disaffected river lords. Said stronghold would also be a good location for Sansa to rally the remnants of Northern loyalty.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
PhoenixDark said:
The book will be out next year but I'm restless. I wonder how long it'll be considering Martin has said some of the AFFC cliff hangers will be addressed. Seems to me like the next books will have to be as long as ASOS to possibly tell the entire tale in only 7 books.
Click to expand...

I think they will be. I don't think its possible to really end the current climate of things in Dragons, but I think the next book will be really beefy and be the real climax leading to the resolution of the story. As much as I'm looking forward to Dragons, from what I've heard of the character chapters in that book I'm extremely excited for the book after this one. I think it'll be the meatiest of the series and has the potential for the most outrageous shit...

Of course it all depends on a lot of things. How easily Dany will be introduced, how much of a threat the others actually are, and etc. I expect a lot of huge confrontations that were hinted at will end up being short skirmishes both from a political and warfare perspective if only to cut out page count/adding books...

But I really hope Martin does it justice.

SapientWolf said:
It's been so long since the last book that I'm starting to forget parts of the story. Martin better stay healthy long enough to finish the series.

Also, is there anyone here who reads both Harry Potter and Fire and Ice? I don't see how those books could ever share the same audience, despite being in the same genre.
Click to expand...

I enjoy both series. Potter is done now for me but its not hard for me to mix up genres.

SPOILERS FOR FEAST for CROWS!!!
!!!!

As far as Feast is concerned, I enjoyed it but it was noticeably weaker than the previous books for me. And yes it all comes down to character chapters. A lot of new characters, settings, and political situations were introduced in an already waist deep pool of established alliances, fan favorites, plotlines, and etc and it all came across as a bit like filler or adding on a little bit more depth than what was necessary given the state of the overall tale right now.

But I still enjoyed it. Jaime kept things interesting for me and I'm a big fan of his relationship (or lack thereof) with Brienne and Cersei. Briennes chapters disappointed me somewhat, and I felt that even Jaime was somewhat underused, but again a lot of development both from character and plot standpoint happened in this novel. Also the perspective into Victarion and his kin brought another interesting dynamic into the tale.
My only question is if the Greyjoy and Martell plotlines have added a few to many layers to a story that is already in need of a lot of time and depth to finish pre-established plotlines, and if their introduction will result in a LOT of character deaths or rushing will be done by Martin in order to get this series finished in 7 books
 
A

aceface

Member
On the Greyjoys and Martells:

You have to ask yourself what role they are playing in the story. Martin would not introduce them for no reason. My thinking is: The Greyjoys are to get Danys to Westeros. She needs ships. The Martells are to give her allies when she gets there. Quentin Martell is going to be one of the heads of the dragon I think.
 
S

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
My Arms Your Hearse said:
The feigned disappointment with regard to Feast comes from people getting their panties in a wad that their favorite character isn't in it. It is objectively as high caliber as the others.
Click to expand...
what favourite character is this?
 
H

hidepsyence

Member
Dark FaZe said:
s640x480
Click to expand...

So awesome
 
Brian Fellows

Brian Fellows

Pete Carroll Owns Me
PhoenixDark said:
Exactly. She was being used and manipulated on all sides yet didn't suspect a thing. btw what do you guys think about the whole "Aurane Waters in leagues with the Tyrells" theory? Or maybe Stannis is a more likely choice
Click to expand...

I honestly dont think he was in league with anyone. I think he was just someone who Cercei appointed cuz he was young and pretty and was in way over his head. When she lost her power he ran with the ships because he was about to be removed. Granted he has to go to someone now and I think he'll end up being the mummers dragon Dany was told about.



With ADWS months away, where do you see the war in the north going? I've sort of skimmed through details on some of the released chapters from the book, one of which including
Stannis' men capturing Asha
Click to expand...

I see Stannis mopping up for a while becase 90% of the north's strength is dead and GRRM is gonna want to build him up for his showdown and ultimate defeat with the Others.
 
S

Scribble

Member
I just wanted to say this. I'm a fan of the ASOAIF, but before I finished the books, I heard comments like "no character is off bounds for Martin," and "no-one's safe," but I was disappointed in that regard:

Robb: Wasn't a POV character anyway. And although his role was big (Rise of the Starks and all of that), I didn't feel much of an attachment to him. Thought he was the blandest king as well.

Catelyn: Dead, but not quite.

Ned: Was his death really that much of a shock? If there was any main character who was likely to die, it was him!

And then we've got deaths that may or may not be deaths (But lean towards the latter) in A Feast of Crows.

I think the whole no-one's safe thing was SUCH an exaggeration. I haven't read too many fantasy books though, so if it is true about Martin being one of the most ruthless fantasy authors, that says a lot about fantasy.

I'd be surprised if someone like Jon died, because despite everyone saying how gritty ASOAIF is, he as an annoying air of flawless (Or his flaws aren't really flaws) "Chosen One" surrounding him (And wow, he's got such a huge fanbase, yet better-written characters like Catelyn are despised -- I get this impression on one huge ASOAIF forum. Jaime, Tyrion and depending on how she turns out, Arya make the series for me)
 
F

Flynn

Member
Scribble said:
I just wanted to say this. I'm a fan of the ASOAIF, but before I finished the books, I heard comments like "no character is off bounds for Martin," and "no-one's safe," but I was disappointed in that regard:

Robb: Wasn't a POV character anyway. And although his role was big (Rise of the Starks and all of that), I didn't feel much of an attachment to him. Thought he was the blandest king as well.

Catelyn: Dead, but not quite.

Ned: Was his death really that much of a shock? If there was any main character who was likely to die, it was him!

And then we've got deaths that may or may not be deaths (But lean towards the latter) in A Feast of Crows.

I think the whole no-one's safe thing was SUCH an exaggeration. I haven't read too many fantasy books though, so if it is true about Martin being one of the most ruthless fantasy authors, that says a lot about fantasy.

I'd be surprised if someone like Jon died, because despite everyone saying how gritty ASOAIF is, he as an annoying air of flawless (Or his flaws aren't really flaws) "Chosen One" surrounding him (And wow, he's got such a huge fanbase, yet better-written characters like Catelyn are despised -- I get this impression on one huge ASOAIF forum. Jaime, Tyrion and depending on how she turns out, Arya make the series for me)
Click to expand...

I think the idea that "no one is safe" is false. In Martin's world you must be adaptable to survive. Those with rigid worldviews are crushed. Those who are able to change may not be happy about, but at the very least they're not utterly destroyed.
 
G

gutshot

Member
Scribble said:
I just wanted to say this. I'm a fan of the ASOAIF, but before I finished the books, I heard comments like "no character is off bounds for Martin," and "no-one's safe," but I was disappointed in that regard:

Robb: Wasn't a POV character anyway. And although his role was big (Rise of the Starks and all of that), I didn't feel much of an attachment to him. Thought he was the blandest king as well.

Catelyn: Dead, but not quite.

Ned: Was his death really that much of a shock? If there was any main character who was likely to die, it was him!

And then we've got deaths that may or may not be deaths (But lean towards the latter) in A Feast of Crows.

I think the whole no-one's safe thing was SUCH an exaggeration. I haven't read too many fantasy books though, so if it is true about Martin being one of the most ruthless fantasy authors, that says a lot about fantasy.

I'd be surprised if someone like Jon died, because despite everyone saying how gritty ASOAIF is, he as an annoying air of flawless (Or his flaws aren't really flaws) "Chosen One" surrounding him (And wow, he's got such a huge fanbase, yet better-written characters like Catelyn are despised -- I get this impression on one huge ASOAIF forum. Jaime, Tyrion and depending on how she turns out, Arya make the series for me)
Click to expand...

Well if you went into the series with some preconceived notions than maybe it wouldn't be as much of a shock when so-and-so dies. For myself, I had no clue what this series was all about when I started reading it and coming from Wheel of Time, where NO ONE dies, it was quite a shock.

That being said, let's look at the list of characters that have died since the series began:
Dead:
Ned Stark
Viserys Targaryen
Robb Stark
Robert Baratheon
Renly Baratheon
Joffrey Baratheon
Tywin Lannister
Khal Drogo
Qhorin Halfhand
Oberyn the Red Viper
Lysa Arryn
Beric Dondarrion
Jeor Mormont
Yoren

Might be dead:
Loras Tyrell
Benjen Stark
Sandor Clegane
Davos Seaworth
Gregor Clegane

Seriously injured, maimed, or otherwise incapacitated:
Tyrion Lannister
Bran Stark
Jaime Lannister
Catelyn Stark

Sure not all of these are major characters, but that is quite a list of folks who are dead, presumed dead, or otherwise seriously injured. Certainly worthy of the "no character is safe" designation.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
gutshot said:
Well if you went into the series with some preconceived notions than maybe it wouldn't be as much of a shock when so-and-so dies. For myself, I had no clue what this series was all about when I started reading it and coming from Wheel of Time, where NO ONE dies, it was quite a shock.

That being said, let's look at the list of characters that have died since the series began:
Dead:
Ned Stark
Viserys Targaryen
Robb Stark
Robert Baratheon
Renly Baratheon
Joffrey Baratheon
Tywin Lannister
Khal Drogo
Qhorin Halfhand
Oberyn the Red Viper
Lysa Arryn
Beric Dondarrion
Jeor Mormont
Yoren

Might be dead:
Loras Tyrell
Benjen Stark
Sandor Clegane
Davos Seaworth
Gregor Clegane

Seriously injured, maimed, or otherwise incapacitated:
Tyrion Lannister
Bran Stark
Jaime Lannister
Catelyn Stark

Sure not all of these are major characters, but that is quite a list of folks who are dead, presumed dead, or otherwise seriously injured. Certainly worthy of the "no character is safe" designation.
Click to expand...

I agree; it's not just who dies, it's also the fact that this is a series where the "good guys" get massacred just as much as the "bad guys", if not more.

And then when you consider "how" people die.
The Red Wedding was very brutal. As I've said before I liked Robb and expected him to live longer; I identified with him as an eldest child
 
F

funk0ar

Member
gutshot said:
Might be dead:

Gregor Clegane
Click to expand...

Speaking of which, what is going on here? Is that guy (The new evil maester, it's been a while) Making some kind of Frankenstein out of the Mountain? Did't they send his skull to Dorne?
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
gutshot said:
Well if you went into the series with some preconceived notions than maybe it wouldn't be as much of a shock when so-and-so dies. For myself, I had no clue what this series was all about when I started reading it and coming from Wheel of Time, where NO ONE dies, it was quite a shock.

That being said, let's look at the list of characters that have died since the series began:
Dead:
Ned Stark
Viserys Targaryen
Robb Stark
Robert Baratheon
Renly Baratheon
Joffrey Baratheon
Tywin Lannister
Khal Drogo
Qhorin Halfhand
Oberyn the Red Viper
Lysa Arryn
Beric Dondarrion
Jeor Mormont
Yoren

Might be dead:
Loras Tyrell
Benjen Stark
Sandor Clegane
Davos Seaworth
Gregor Clegane

Seriously injured, maimed, or otherwise incapacitated:
Tyrion Lannister
Bran Stark
Jaime Lannister
Catelyn Stark

Sure not all of these are major characters, but that is quite a list of folks who are dead, presumed dead, or otherwise seriously injured. Certainly worthy of the "no character is safe" designation.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure
Gregor is dead. Didnt they give his skull to one of the kingsguard to appease the Dornish. Also I'm pretty sure Loras is merely incapacitated
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Dark FaZe said:
Tyrion and Jon are wildly popular.
Click to expand...

And Dany is interesting enough, since her story takes place in a very different part of the world. FfC is very focused
 
U

Uncle

Member
gutshot said:
Might be dead:
Loras Tyrell
Benjen Stark
Sandor Clegane
Davos Seaworth
Gregor Clegane
Click to expand...

I think
Brienne
should be on this list.
Though I doubt she died.
 
G

gutshot

Member
funk0ar said:
Speaking of which, what is going on here? Is that guy (The new evil maester, it's been a while) Making some kind of Frankenstein out of the Mountain? Did't they send his skull to Dorne?
Click to expand...

Qyburn. And yeah, the suspicion is that he is making some sort of undead creature. The skull they sent was a fake.

Uncle said:
I think
Brienne
should be on this list.
Though I doubt she died.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought about putting her on there. But since that scene cut off right before she was to be killed and she said "a word" I think it is pretty clear that she was not killed.
 
S

Scribble

Member
gutshot said:
Sure not all of these are major characters, but that is quite a list of folks who are dead, presumed dead, or otherwise seriously injured. Certainly worthy of the "no character is safe" designation.
Click to expand...

Some of those are major deaths (i.e.
Tywin's death is interesting in the sense that it changed the playing field
in the world of ASOIAF, but I was expecting deaths of characters that Martin had developed throughout the series. Like
When Sandor hit Arya in the head, the wording was a bit suspicious -- but it affected me in the way that I could not keep reading until I found out if she was alive or not
And a lot of those deaths seemed inevitable, IMO.

Of course, the series has to have a set of core characters due to the whole POV thing. But again, I just think it says more about fantasy novels than it does about ASOIAF. Like WoT. Sheesh.
 
U

Uncle

Member
gutshot said:
Yeah, I thought about putting her on there. But since that scene cut off right before she was to be killed and she said "a word" I think it is pretty clear that she was not killed.
Click to expand...


But you put
Davos
there too and that's just based on second hand info.
I think he is alive as well. At least he should be. :p
 
G

gutshot

Member
Scribble said:
Some of those are major deaths (i.e.
Tywin's death is interesting in the sense that it changed the playing field
in the world of ASOIAF, but I was expecting deaths of characters that Martin had developed throughout the series. Like
When Sandor hit Arya in the head, the wording was a bit suspicious -- but it affected me in the way that I could not keep reading until I found out if she was alive or not
And a lot of those deaths seemed inevitable, IMO.

Of course, the series has to have a set of core characters due to the whole POV thing. But again, I just think it says more about fantasy novels than it does about ASOIAF. Like WoT. Sheesh.
Click to expand...

Well Ned was a developed character, as was Robb (even though he didn't have his own POV). And since when did the death have to be unexpected to count? It wouldn't be a stretch to think that Cersei is going to be killed off shortly. It wouldn't be unexpected, but it certainly would be the killing of a developed character.

I agree on your last point though, most fantasy novels are like children's fairy tales, compared to ASOIAF.

Uncle said:
But you put
Davos
there too and that's just based on second hand info.
I think he is alive as well. At least he should be. :p
Click to expand...

Well Davos has actually been reported as dead within the story, even though most people don't believe it. I would have to go back and read it, but was it ever mentioned that Brienne is presumed dead? The only thing we have to go on is her last POV chapter, which even though it ends in some ambiguity, certainly makes it sound like she is alive, at least for now.

For what it's worth, I think everyone under the "Might Be Dead" category is still alive, at least in some fashion.
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
HK-47 said:
Who cares who is dead or not anyways,
what the heck happened to Arya =(
Click to expand...

That's what I want to know...
She's definitely in the most interesting position at the moment. I really hope Martin does Arya justice by giving her more page time in the next installment.
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
I wouldn't say every character is off or on limits. Theres kinda been a bit of a pattern.

Spoilers, Speculation( Major ones, Don't read if you don't want to maybe spoiled lol), and more

Jon is the main character. The song of fire and ice is his story. The son of Rhaegar and Llyanna. He is completely off limits. He is the one who ties everything together. The choosen crap, The song of fire and ice, Reuniting the kingdoms, etc.

Then go down to the ones who affect him the most. Dany, Ayra, Tyrion, Cat, and a few others. These ones are off limits till they either make their big revelation. Till they serve their purpose. I was doubting myself a bit after Cat's death...but she came back to life :lol You'll know when they die if he decides to kill them. What I'm going at is, the more they matter to Jon's character. Be it just a relationship, info, friendship, etc. The more off limits they seem to appear.

Not to mention, It seems like every major throne still has a rightful heir left. Which you can even reduce down to more of who are unkillable for the time being.
 
G

gutshot

Member
I just re-read this thread and :lol at all the "release dates" for ADWD. Sept, no Oct, maybe Nov? Most people were convinced it would be out by the end of this year.

For those that know more about publishing, assuming Martin finishes the book tomorrow, what is the earliest it would be released?
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
shintoki said:
I wouldn't say every character is off or on limits. Theres kinda been a bit of a pattern.

Spoilers, Speculation( Major ones, Don't read if you don't want to maybe spoiled lol), and more

Jon is the main character. The song of fire and ice is his story. The son of Rhaegar and Llyanna. He is completely off limits. He is the one who ties everything together. The choosen crap, The song of fire and ice, Reuniting the kingdoms, etc.

Then go down to the ones who affect him the most. Dany, Ayra, Tyrion, Cat, and a few others. These ones are off limits till they either make their big revelation. Till they serve their purpose. I was doubting myself a bit after Cat's death...but she came back to life :lol You'll know when they die if he decides to kill them. What I'm going at is, the more they matter to Jon's character. Be it just a relationship, info, friendship, etc. The more off limits they seem to appear.

Not to mention, It seems like every major throne still has a rightful heir left. Which you can even reduce down to more of who are unkillable for the time being.
Click to expand...

That what you think, until he kills off Tyrion, Dany and Jon in the same explosion.

That would be badass and such a fuck you moment.

I expect quite a few of the big characters to die later on.
 
U

Uncle

Member
gutshot said:
I just re-read this thread and :lol at all the "release dates" for ADWD. Sept, no Oct, maybe Nov? Most people were convinced it would be out by the end of this year.

For those that know more about publishing, assuming Martin finishes the book tomorrow, what is the earliest it would be released?
Click to expand...

From the ADWD wikipedia page:
"In early 2008, publisher Spectra (a division of Random House) announced that A Dance with Dragons would be released on September 30, 2008,[13] but Martin stated this would only be possible if he finished writing by the end of June, before a trip to Spain and Portugal"

So about three months later? There's a bit of a spoiler there btw, if you haven't been following all the info about the book.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
HK-47 said:
Who cares who is dead or not anyways,
what the heck happened to Arya =(
Click to expand...

When she first entered training there were people there who were blind right? I thought they were on the path to becoming assassins. If that was the case then her blindness is temporary and she'll be badass assassin one day...

...and maybe get hired to kill Jon or Dany *dun dun dunnnn*
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
PhoenixDark said:
When she first entered training there were people there who were blind right? I thought they were on the path to becoming assassins. If that was the case then her blindness is temporary and she'll be badass assassin one day...

...and maybe get hired to kill Jon or Dany *dun dun dunnnn*
Click to expand...

She woke up blind after taking things meant for "Arya." Its less of an assassin thing and more of a she fucked up big time thing
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Yeah, Arya is being setup as the odd one out. I've posted it before but I would love it if there was gulf of time that is left out and we're introduced to all the younger characters but as adults. The whole series has had this boiling, it just makes me think that Martin wants us to get to know them as children so when can have more of a connection with them as adults.
 
U

Uncle

Member
BlueTsunami said:
Yeah, Arya is being setup as the odd one out. I've posted it before but I would love it if there was gulf of time that is left out and we're introduced to all the younger characters but as adults. The whole series has had this boiling, it just makes me think that Martin wants us to get to know them as children so when can have more of a connection with them as adults.
Click to expand...


There was supposed to be one, but Martin came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work for the adult characters. IIRC it's one of the reasons for the delays.
 
F

Flynn

Member
I hope Martin takes two more years just to make you guys who think the author's sole job is to barf up books even more angry.
 
D

Dina

Member
Flynn said:
Whatever the fuck he wants.
Click to expand...

Oh don't worry, he doing whatever the fuck he wants plenty.

Visit this and that con.
Update his blog often.
Comment on uninteresting American Football games.
Visit more cons.
And write about that.
Write about his wife that turned sick, or stuff stolen from his home, or other snippet of real-life info.
More American Football.
And more con-news.

I am SO fucking glad Erikson isn't blogging and to be frank, it shows. The man is pumping out consistently good fantasy novels every 1-2 years.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
If the long delay meant a better book, I'd be cooler with it. but the last long wait provided the weakest book of the story so far.
 
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