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(ONM) Senran Kagura Burst is damaging the industry - here's how to stop it

LeleSocho

Banned
You should research a little bit on the stuff you talk about, i'm not saying the concept of your argument is wrong but the reasoning behind it has holes all over the place, like the 50% stuff (it's been long since japan hasn't been that big in vgs) and the no-eye things (potraing people without eyes when looking down is a common thing in anime/manga regardless of the sex, genre or body type).


Also how the hell can people not distinguish fanservice to moe is something that my poor brain cannot compute.
They are totally different things.
 

Platy

Member
Is fantasy setting with over the top artstyle inspired by Frank Frazetta esque art. That is the logic. The inner one that are you referring is not kind of limited with Sorceress design (as the game is quite absurd and over the top by itself)

Even Mario has inner logic.
Hell, even Senran Kagura Burst has more inner logic.

Sorceres and Morgan's design is "bikini armor" after "bikini armor", in a game where there are both Lucien, the Wizard and the "two paths" wizard dude.

Saying it is Frazetta inspired does not save you from problems that Frazetta himself had.

I hate with a passion FPS where you kill thousands of generic ennemies and believe that type of games if much more morally damaging and dehumanizing for young gamers, but to wish for these games to be erased from the surface of the earth or for the companies which produces these games to disappear.... nope, it's the kind of extremist viewpoint I despise.

Again, I don't really understand why people chose to be this easily offended by a niche title which will sell only an handful of units. Social justice warriors with too much time on their hands and a longing to be on the "good" side to boost their ego is my guess.

I never said every type of these games needs to disapear, I just said THIS SERIES, who happens to put a "fps where you kill thousands of generic enemies" RIGHT IN MY FAVORITE GENRE WHO HAPPENS TO BE RARE disappear.

But I am a poster on the internet, the series sadly is not going anywheere as much rage I show =P

No problem with visual novel hentai games ... that genre praticaly asks for this misoginist crap.... and even hentai games have more variation in body types.
 

Jathaine

Member
Even Mario has inner logic.
Hell, even Senran Kagura Burst has more inner logic.

Sorceres and Morgan's design is "bikini armor" after "bikini armor", in a game where there are both Lucien, the Wizard and the "two paths" wizard dude.

How is it bikini armor when neither of them is even wearing "armor" to begin with?
Mages in fantasy settings don't tend to wear armor anyway... protective magic should be more effective anyhow! (and did you know the sorc has a shield spell?)
 
Even Mario has inner logic.
Hell, even Senran Kagura Burst has more inner logic.

Sorceres and Morgan's design is "bikini armor" after "bikini armor", in a game where there are both Lucien, the Wizard and the "two paths" wizard dude.

Why does Mario uses Shoes (no tennis or another) in world that is all about jumps and running? Why is a plumber when the warp pipes seem to be more interdimensional portals tha pipes? Why does a giant turtle dragon needs to mate(?) with a blond human (?) princess?

Saying it is Frazetta inspired does not save you from problems that Frazetta himself had.

Yep. But you at least need to contextualize the problem and not only declaring "well that was wrong too. So no logic."
 
Ah ba ah ba ah ba...

...

... What were we talking about, again?

1389897182798flugu.gif
 
My no-one-cares 2 cents

Americans mostly doesn't know about the Japanese gaming scene. I've played both Ikki Tousen beat'em ups on the PSP and Queen's Blade's SRPGs on the PSP as well but I never heard of campaigns on trying to boycott this from Americans.

Proves three things:
1) Read my first sentence
2) Americans only care when it concerns them even though a product has been available long before their distaste
3) When they see something that goes against their way of thinking or culture, they are quick to blame them because they believe they are right. Which they could be for all we know, but it's essentially a matter of opinion and taste and rarely a discussion of morals and ends up calling the other group adjectives like "weird"

What the blogger has essentially said was Japan as a culture is sexist. Which is true to an extent, but to take it out on a game is too much. Also making assumptions that women wouldn't like to play this game is just bad on his part. I think if he started REALLY looking at the games Japanese people put out, he would blow his mind.

If it's some personal crusade to save the American people, he should just stop while he's ahead.
 
If it helps, I have WAY more problem with GTAV than this, since it is a much smaller and fragile minority and it actualy uses slurs.

First time hearing of this, even though I had no intention playing it because I hate how Rockstar games play, the sexism and this stuff is just gross. If they were going for satire, they forgot to make me laugh. Or went for lazy, tired trope crap.
 
Right, and virtually all of those people are men. If you're only interested in seeing gaming as largely the boy's club it is today, that's fine. But plenty of people have higher aspirations for the community and, frankly, we'll win eventually.


They're limited right now -- limited to a spectrum where women are pretty much always objectified to varying degrees -- and I'm advocating for them to be less limited. This isn't about censorship, this is about recognizing that women being sexually objectified in videogames is the norm right now.

I see this repeated over and over in these kinds of discussions, and I don't see it. If you look at GAF's games of the year threads, pretty much every one of them since we've been doing that, there's barely any fanservice in those lists. Those are the most widely played and influential games.
 

Zacxx201

Banned
It is completly fair since the game is absolutely disgusting.

I don't understand why people don't make games where you can do other types of prejudice so often as they make misogynist piles of crap like these.

Can we please stop using the word misogyny to describe anything with females in this industry that we disagree with?
Misogyny is the hatred of women. Just because the devs of certain games are using character designs that you disagree with does not make them misogynists. Please stop using that word because you and the rest of the industry are just lowering its meaning and identifying people as something they're not.
 

Platy

Member
How is it bikini armor when neither of them is even wearing "armor" to begin with?
Mages in fantasy settings don't tend to wear armor anyway... protective magic should be more effective anyhow! (and did you know the sorc has a shield spell?)

I used bikini armor in the sense of showing female skin for the sake of female skin.

If the Sorceres is showing way more skin because of a protective spell than Lucien, who is this game's most powerfull magician, should be wearing a thong.

Why does Mario uses Shoes (no tennis or another) in world that is all about jumps and running? Why is a plumber when the warp pipes seem to be more interdimensional portals tha pipes? Why does a giant turtle dragon needs to mate(?) with a blond human (?) princess?

Yep. But you at least need to contextualize the problem and not only declaring "well that was wrong too. So no logic."

I am saying INNER logic.
Both of your sentences are focusing on OUTSIDE logic.

Mario uses shoes, so as EVERYONE ELSE IN THE GAME that uses footwear uses shoes.
The inner logic might as well be that running shoes don't exist within the game world.

Can we please stop using the word misogyny to describe anything with females in this industry that we disagree with?
Misogyny is the hatred of women. Just because the devs of certain games are using character designs that you disagree with does not make them misogynists. Please stop using that word because you and the rest of the industry are just lowering its meaning and identifying people as something they're not.

Treating a HUMAN BEING as merely an OBJECT to fullfill a man's fantasy is NOT hatred of women ?
 
I am saying INNER logic.
Both of your sentences are focusing on OUTSIDE logic.

Mario uses shoes, so as EVERYONE ELSE IN THE GAME that uses footwear uses shoes.
The inner logic might as well be that running shoes don't exist within the game world.

I hope you realize how ridiculous it sounds when applied to Mario Bros (and Dragon Dogma to an extent).
 

Platy

Member
You are conscious that you are judging the whole game only by its western cover, don't you ?

Can you help me than explaining how this game has any character development ?

Linking of a wiki or something ?

The japanese cover and the gifs posted are not helping my opinion

I hope you realize how ridiculous it sounds when applied to Mario Bros (and Dragon Dogma to an extent).

It shows that people treat everyone the same.

Never played dragon's dogma =P
 
Why is AnimeGAF so creepy?

Generalisation how do they work ?

AnimeGaf is a collection of minds with different tastes, not even 30% of animegaf watched senran kagura when it aired and the 70% that didn't watch were either unintrested or just laughed at the funny gifs from the franchise ( like the mirai - jet one )

Can you help me than explaining how this game has any character development ?

Linking of a wiki or something ?

The japanese cover and the gifs posted are not helping my opinion
Are you aware that the game has a story mode , and that most of the time you're not fighting is passed reading the story that is presented with text & voices ?
 

LordJim

Member
Can you help me than explaining how this game has any character development ?

So anything explicit cannot have a focus on writing and characters ever?
I mean, I would understand it somewhat if you assumed it was done badly, but finding it hard to believe it has any at all is just weird.
 
I used bikini armor in the sense of showing female skin for the sake of female skin.

If the Sorceres is showing way more skin because of a protective spell than Lucien, who is this game's most powerfull magician, should be wearing a thong.
What if magicians want to look appealing to the opposite sex in the world of Dragon's Crown? A lot of women like well dressed men and a lot of men like cleavage. Doesn't hurt inner logic either.
 
Generalisation how do they work ?

AnimeGaf is a collection of minds with different tastes, not even 30% of animegaf watched senran kagura when it aired and the 70% that didn't watch were either unintrested or just laughed at the funny gifs from the franchise ( like the mirai - jet one )

Is there a series that isn't full of ecchi and fanservice though?

Audiences have shrunken, mass-appeal time slots have vanished, and toy companies are no longer footing the bill; you can't have a series cover any topic or genre without having onsen episodes and characters falling out of their clothes because that's what's required to service the very particular needs of super devout fan clusters who've proven themselves willing to buy the games and merchandise and figurines and whatever required to keep everything solvent.

See also, the numerous series focused on rousing warm, paternalistic feelings in the male viewer through the endearing depiction of young girls (moe).

The reason people are concerned about the topic is because they don't want gaming to stick to pandering to the same audience, to go down the same route, so that every game doesn't have default inclusion of this stuff.

That means challenging the games that do have this stuff, which unfortunately includes a big amount of Japans gaming output.
 
Treating a HUMAN BEING as merely an OBJECT to fullfill a man's fantasy is NOT hatred of women ?

Not at all. Sometimes that object is fulfilling a revenge fantasy or a silly rabbit who only serves to make us laugh or it's a victim of a crime to make us feel angry/sad. We're smart enough to know the difference between fantasy and reality. Women don't need us to protect them from male fantasies, they should be encouraged to create their own, in my opinion.
 
The reason people are concerned about the topic is because they don't want gaming to stick to pandering to the same audience, to go down the same route, so that every game doesn't have default inclusion of this stuff.

That means challenging the games that do have this stuff, which unfortunately includes a big amount of Japans gaming output.

The western side pretty much opposes this in almost every way to get to that point in this side.

Shame for the Japanase output, but is not like I outright hate Moe, personally.
 
I am going to do my part and continue to buy SK titles.

I like the eyecandy, the devs unapologetic this is what it is attitude, and enjoy the gameplay even more.
Call me what you want, i will not be caring much as im busting shirts and skirts
 

mankoto

Member
Can you help me than explaining how this game has any character development ?

I'd personally say the best forms of character development in the game comes from the characters Yomi and Mirai.

Yomi for example, grew up poor and in the slums. To make a not very long backstory short,she absolutely hates rich people. So much so that she believes they deserve death for not spreading the wealth enough. During the story she meets a character called Ikagura - a very, very, wealthy person. After the two of them meet several times throughout the story, Yomi's hatred for rich people lessens with each encounter as she begins to understand that not all rich people are inherently bad. They even actually become good friends despite their social status as well as being from opposing ninja schools in the greater scheme of things.

As for Mirai, as the only flat character in the game, she takes a big note of this and she feels as if she has no self worth because she looks incredibly childish compared to the others. Throughout the game Mirai's friends help her realize that everything is fine because she has people that truly care about her.


Edit:I've only played the Hebijo side of the story mode. I haven't touched Hanzo yet so there might be other good one's besides these.
 
Is there a series that isn't full of ecchi and fanservice though?

If you go to animegaf and ask for a serie that isn't eichi or fanservice , you'll have plenty of answers ..animegaf has even posters specialised in that kind of thing .

Heck the most beloved anime from 2013 in anime gaf ( yamato 2199 , hunter x hunter (2011) or the excentric familly ) if i have to name a few ( and believe me there are more in store for you ) are not ecchi and fanservice.

There is nothing wrong with fanservice (IMO) but you can enjoy the medium and dislike it..
 
Funbag Airbag? Yeah, that's just a bunch of super immature, slightly perverted tropes related to the objectification of women. Character development it is not.

You guys can like what you want, but stop pretending "fanservice" isn't just code for "fetish".

Well, thanks for descontextualize a general character trope not exactly exclusive of that game and the actual article is neutral at best (given the tropes community always disscusing about that issues and even deleting or readiting pages to the point of inner flame wars about it):

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FunbagAirbag

Maybe you should read the character tropes:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/SenranKagura

I suppose is fun to hate at the first opportunity. .
 

GD1551

Banned
Is there a series that isn't full of ecchi and fanservice though?

Audiences have shrunken, mass-appeal time slots have vanished, and toy companies are no longer footing the bill; you can't have a series cover any topic or genre without having onsen episodes and characters falling out of their clothes because that's what's required to service the very particular needs of super devout fan clusters who've proven themselves willing to buy the games and merchandise and figurines and whatever required to keep everything solvent.

You act is if the same cannot be said for western media as well. It's a bit more blatant in many anime (try gundam unicorn for a show that has none at all) but the west uses the same tactics. Let me say this straight up though, I'm not one of those japan defenders and I think most japanese games and anime are rubbish. I am just pointing out that it's pretty bad in western media as well.
 
Funbag Airbag? Yeah, that's just a bunch of super immature, slightly perverted tropes related to the objectification of women. Character development it is not.

You guys can like what you want, but stop pretending "fanservice" isn't just code for "fetish".

And somewhere above that on the list, Dark and Troubled Past.
Also, for the record, "funbag airbag" was in the anime, not the game. The game's far less service-y.
 

Hagi

Member
Is there a series that isn't full of ecchi and fanservice though?

328.gif


The reason people are concerned about the topic is because they don't want gaming to stick to pandering to the same audience, to go down the same route, so that every game doesn't have default inclusion of this stuff.

That means challenging the games that do have this stuff, which unfortunately includes a big amount of Japans gaming output.

Gaming on the whole panders to a wide range of different audiences, expecting a one ring to rule them all scenario is quite frankly ridiculous. No matter how much publishers chase that fabled huge audience default fan service isn't going to be thing that gets them there. Especially in the West
 

Reknoc

Member
Good to see this thread kept up on being bad with people trying to cut the throat of something they just see the cover of.

Well you know the old saying "Always judge a book by its cover and demand all copies be gathered up and burnt because you decided it was offensive"
 
Funbag Airbag? Yeah, that's just a bunch of super immature, slightly perverted tropes related to the objectification of women. Character development it is not.

You guys can like what you want, but stop pretending "fanservice" isn't just code for "fetish".

What's more immature- enjoying T&A entertainment, or refusing to accept, understand or tolerate the existence of T&A entertainment when it's basic human nature?
 
Can you help me than explaining how this game has any character development ?

Linking of a wiki or something ?

The japanese cover and the gifs posted are not helping my opinion



It shows that people treat everyone the same.

Never played dragon's dogma =P

Why would it require character development? Isn't it a silly action game?
 

Platy

Member
Are you aware that the game has a story mode , and that most of the time you're not fighting is passed reading the story that is presented with text & voices ?

Considering everything I saw about the game
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No, I am not aware there is a time with text

You really want to go there? About Mario fiction? Because Toads, Boos and Koopas would argue about that.

About ANY good game design.
Or movie design
Or book design

Yes. They are treated as the same.
There are helpful toads, helpfull boos and helpfull koopas in the same way that there are evil ones

So anything explicit cannot have a focus on writing and characters ever?
I mean, I would understand it somewhat if you assumed it was done badly, but finding it hard to believe it has any at all is just weird.

I find hard to focus on writing when there is so much nonsense happening.

Is there a reason why the main BUSTY characters are the only with battle damage ?
Is there a reason for every main character hs praticaly the same body type ?
"You need to be this busty to enter" ?

What if magicians want to look appealing to the opposite sex in the world of Dragon's Crown? A lot of women like well dressed men and a lot of men like cleavage. Doesn't hurt inner logic either.

I have no problem with her clothing in the endings, because it is not the clothing she uses to FIGHT GIANT DRAGONS.
Impratical clothing is impratical.
And ONLY for the Sorceres and Morgan

You'll cry a tear for all your objectified brothers when you find out a lot of ladies have drawers full of electronic and rubber penises.

If you really think dildos are the same as men you will have lots of problems in your sexual life.


I ... agree with :

Funbag Airbag? Yeah, that's just a bunch of super immature, slightly perverted tropes related to the objectification of women. Character development it is not.

You guys can like what you want, but stop pretending "fanservice" isn't just code for "fetish".

=P

Not at all. Sometimes that object is fulfilling a revenge fantasy or a silly rabbit who only serves to make us laugh or it's a victim of a crime to make us feel angry/sad. We're smart enough to know the difference between fantasy and reality. Women don't need us to protect them from male fantasies, they should be encouraged to create their own, in my opinion.

Do you understand why you laugh at objectified women ?

Do you understand why you don't laugh when there is prejudice with gays or black or asian people in games ?

I'd personally say the best forms of character development in the game comes from the characters Yomi and Mirai.

Yomi for example, grew up poor and in the slums. To make a not very long backstory short,she absolutely hates rich people. So much so that she believes they deserve death for not spreading the wealth enough. During the story she meets a character called Ikagura - a very, very, wealthy person. After the two of them meet several times throughout the story, Yomi's hatred for rich people lessens with each encounter as she begins to understand that not all rich people are inherently bad. They even actually become good friends despite their social status as well as being from opposing ninja schools in the greater scheme of things.

As for Mirai, as the only flat character in the game, she takes a big note of this and she feels as if she has no self worth because she looks incredibly childish compared to the others. Throughout the game Mirai's friends help her realize that everything is fine because she has people that truly care about her.

Edit:I've only played the Hebijo side of the story mode. I haven't touched Hanzo yet so there might be other good one's besides these.

Thanks for being the only person who actualy answered my question.
The game is less worst than I imagined, but still HIGHLY problematic from every other point

edit :
Why would it require character development? Isn't it a silly action game?

If you are going to objectify people who are already objectified on a regular basis, yes you need a reason
 
Platy, do you have the intention to play or at least try to research about the fiction and characters of the game... trust me, you can make a better point if you did. Right here you are shadow boxing.
 
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