TheBaronOfNA
Banned
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http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38220.html
(Recessions tend to have social impacts, you know?)
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(ONM) Senran Kagura Burst is damaging the industry - here's how to stop it
- Thread starter studyguy
- Start date
Google search?
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38220.html
(Recessions tend to have social impacts, you know?)
Immaculate
Banned
what is this
Ingueferroque
Banned
What is your point? I don't get it. The game is obviously pervy, but does that mean it should not be released? Can't it just...exist and cater to the people that enjoy it?
Does it harm women? If you think it does, you are insane. It's just stupid, fun. It's as harmful as any videogame/movie/book ever with a male protagonist that is bare chested with idealised proportions.
spandexmonkey
Banned
Fan-service hasn't been prevalent in gaming for years now, especially with anything from western studios. There are more gaming options today than ever in history. It's a disservice to paint all of gaming with such broad strokes.
Furthermore, sexual pandering in gaming doesn't hold a candle to film or music, which even they can't hold a candle to the amount of sexual objectification in books. I think the crusaders in the press need to show a little self control.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Shame list (thought some kind of deserve it, even in tonge cheek manner, but IMO)
Shinovi Verus added emphasis on the butts as well with surprisingly no trade off. Despite the much, MUCH more fanservice-y game, it gives much, MUCH better gameplay.
I counted 45 posts in a 19 page thread... I don't see a problem here. Yeah sure some are worse than others, but's miniscule.
darkblade77
Member
I already used other images =P
But yeah, the main fanbase is totaly not objectifing women
NOT AT ALL
The wiki of the game, where most of the pics I posted are from, say this about the gameplay :
75% of it is NOT ACTUAL GAMEPLAY.
Hi, I played the game.
The game is a set of beat-em-up stages, some mandatory for progression and some not. Between stages, you're given the option to change the outfit of your characters, or look at the glossary for terms relevant to the game world, or change other settings.
Every mandatory stage comes with one or multiple story cutscenes and character dialogue. The story is fairly involved and is told from two opposing perspectives(the good and evil ninja schools).
There are a few fanservice-centric story scenes that have some centerfold image or something similar of the cast bathing or in bikinis. They aren't common; as far as the story goes they occur in an 'intermission' period before the more dramatic events happen. I think there is only one per faction. Dialogue does get raunchy at times, since some characters like to make sexually suggestive comments.
The majority of the game's content outside of story cutscenes is the beat-em-up gameplay, which is where most of the fanservice you're going to see happens. Gameplay-related fanservice centers around the fact that you can choose various outfits for your characters, the outfits take 'battle damage' if you're harmed too much(or you harm a boss too much), and you can do areas in a 'Frantic' mode where you don't take clothing damage, but your character is wearing something like a bikini or a tight-fitting outfit.
Senran Kagura has a fairly involved storyline regarding the relationship of 'good' and 'evil' ninja; the latter who are contracted to perform morally black/grey requests like assassinations, and the former who often clash with them for that reason. The game is for all intents and purposes, story--and even character--driven.
So yes, fanservice is there, and the game isn't afraid of showing it off, but it's far from the only or even the primary reason why I kept playing. It's closer akin to fluff or dressing than the driving thing that kept the title interesting, IMO.
A thread about a Japanese game with sexy characters and we're only on page 9? GAF is loosing it's touch.
Contrary to what the internet have told you, the majority of Japanese are actually not a bunch of anime/game loving nerds. Japan do face problems in terms of declining birth rate and people starting families/relationships, but these issues stem from bad politics and societal issues. The notion that games and anime are ruining Japan is flat out wrong (and stupid).
Dude, that person is on mission LMAO.. just give up.
I think the correct stance in this is just admit is the game is for pervs, and its nothing wrong about that anyway..
What that make this game that played by hundred thousand of nerd in jap and few more thousand around the world more dangerous than frigging Saint Row anyway, make no sense.
But can I play without Fratic Mode, any crap inpratical outfit or Hyper Battle ?
Like I said, this game is saying a big "fuck you" to me.
No, I am implying that if the only thing you have to say about women is their measures, they are objects.
I might add that the fact that 95% of the cast having huge boobs and being slim doesn't help in the SEA of bad physical images about women everywhere.
One : Art has a meaning. There is a REASON why those women were drawn that way. And when you draw you consciously or unconciously choose EVERY SINGLE DETAIL that you put or let it go from the drawing. It is a picture of the creator's image of what the audience wants.
Two : This part ignores that we already live in a world that even female magazines are FULL of bikini wearing women. If you are bombarded by objectification everytime, there will be a time where you will think there is something wrong about not objectifing.
Three : Not in my definition, sorry. If they didn't hated women they would want their money.
If he somehow ever gets a GAF account, this should be his tag.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
You are cheating, according to how some people react in this thread you are not allowed to give your impressions of the game if you have actually played it.
You'd better not be a game journo for ONM.
R_thanatos
Member
Exactly
--------
@Platy
Congratulations ,you missed the point perfectly.
i'm honnestly not surprised since you weren't looking properly.
With that said i'm not even sure what is your point .. that's how confusing you are
i thought this was about the fact that the game had a story . it has one , or is it about the people enjoying that game ? ( because last time i checked it was quite enough for the publisher in the us ) Or is it about the objectification of women , a problem so large that senran kagura can't alone fit into it .
When your point in the OT is the fact that people embrass the parts of the game they like and you're unable to do your own reasearch before speaking , i'm quite lost.
What's the deal ?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I just thought that user was better than that. And I is depressing because Platy (and Fugus, and others) has genuine points that we should consider but the shallowness, sturbbuness and outright desingenuity level of disscusion trivializes this issues more than helping to discuss them.
@Platy
You are wasting everyone time if you insist of being this obtuse and not even try to see the others points. You want information about the characters but you don't bother to search it and wast your time in creating a fucking shame list.
Yes you can. Like I said, it's an option you choose at the start of the mission. You can go through the entire game without using it at all. All it does is give a bigger variety in the gameplay itself. You can play as a glass canon or play with a considerable amount of bulk.
Yes there are normal clothing options in the game.
Hyper battle is just what the actual gameplay is called. Nothing more.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
And then guilt trip everyone that likes it or doesn't anwser with repulsion or outright hate.
What reason is this? They unknowingly hate women? Disrespect them? There's always this accusation of 'hidden bigotry' when it comes to sexualized characters, as if there is this moral imperative every designer is upholden to.
Maybe they just like big-breasted anime women. Just like their fans might.
I'd argue that it has some effect on their society. Also, nowhere did I mention that games and anime are ruining Japan, but thanks for exaggerating the point of my post.
I'll give that a read and get back to you. I am aware of their demographic issues contributing to socioeconomic problems, though.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
And he responded that is more complicated than that and moe driven otakus are a niche subculture at best.
It's essentially confirmed, they showed a teaser silhouette image of one of the characters in one of their recent articles (as well as a character from Akiba's Trip 2 and a PSP otome game).
I don't think he's wasting anyone's time. You asked a dumb question and he answered you. That it made your previous comments look a little silly might be painful to you, but let's not pretend you didn't ask for it.
TheBaronOfNA said:
As for obtuseness, I do see see plenty of that in here, but not so much from Platy.
XSEED is the best. THE BEST.
I'll buy anything from them. I really wish they'd give us a dynamic Killer is Dead theme on PS3.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Mind you, it was a quick google search and don't get into the actual causes. But is real issue and the "Anime/VideoGame" media is just superficially related.
Ban Puncher
Member
Pre-ordered. Just to irritate people.
Snkfanatic
Banned
My love for them is strong. They are awesome.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
You know that I admited that some of that post were painful and awkward to read (others are pretty clear tonge in cheek given the users). Also, you will see I'm not exactly in that list and celebrating boobs.
encouraged
Question: If someone does a thread or participate in one withouth reading the OP/subject in question... how is regularly seen around here? Is approved or encouraged?
TatteredHat
Member
Controversy did wonders for Dragon's Crown, I can't wait to see what it's going to do for Senran Kagura.
These games would normally be so niche that they'd get fairly low sales, putting them in any sort of spotlight is just going to have a positive impact on their sales, I didn't even realise it was coming out here before this article was put up.
These games would normally be so niche that they'd get fairly low sales, putting them in any sort of spotlight is just going to have a positive impact on their sales, I didn't even realise it was coming out here before this article was put up.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
No, but you should be offended. Otherwise you are contributing to the downfall of the entire industry.
Pinko Marx
Banned
I think the people that are defending this game need to be honest and just admit that this game is pervy as all hell and, while there may or may not be a deep fighting system or storyline involved, the fanservice seems to be at the very heart of it all.
The game objectifies its female characters so much that it makes it into an art. When characters get damaged the game goes into a cutscene showing parts of clothing being ripped off, complete with impossible T&A physics. There are also clothing transformations that focus on the T&A.
Theres nothing wrong with liking a pervy game, but don't sit around and be like "But there is DEEP CHARACTERIZATION HERE, THERES MORE TO IT!" because while that may be true, the fanservice is still very much front and center and for some, to a disgusting degree. The game could very well be labeled misogynist. A quick google search will tell you that the T&A is on prominent display throughout the entirety of both the anime and the games.
The game objectifies its female characters so much that it makes it into an art. When characters get damaged the game goes into a cutscene showing parts of clothing being ripped off, complete with impossible T&A physics. There are also clothing transformations that focus on the T&A.
Theres nothing wrong with liking a pervy game, but don't sit around and be like "But there is DEEP CHARACTERIZATION HERE, THERES MORE TO IT!" because while that may be true, the fanservice is still very much front and center and for some, to a disgusting degree. The game could very well be labeled misogynist. A quick google search will tell you that the T&A is on prominent display throughout the entirety of both the anime and the games.
darkblade77
Member
I get what you're trying to say here, but I'd call making gross assumptions about a title you don't know beyond some article and a Google search and presenting them as part of your argument pretty obtuse. There's no higher ground to be made here.
IMO, Senran Kagura is a game intended among other things, to titillate an audience interested in the same things the producer is. My stance is 'so what'? It's regulated and rated accordingly to the content present in the game, and titillation is not the sole value of the game.
I wouldn't ask for detractors to like it, but to single the title out claiming it shouldn't exist as part of some larger anti-misogynist narrative is just an incendiary waste of everyone's time.
SolidSnakex
Member
Have people said that it isn't pervy? I think some are just trying to make the point that there's more to it than that. Otherwise the game wouldn't have managed to catch on like it has. There are plenty of pervy games out there, but this is the one that somehow managed to catch on. It's like when people think that GTA is only popular because of its violence, but completely ignore that they're actually really well designed games as well. Soldier of Fortune would've been far more popular if violence was simply what people wanted.
I think we all play this game for the plot.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Is a pervy game.
But that is the thing, I don;t found it misogynist. Or at least in a level that requires a superficial criticism and public shaming others.
Agree with all that.There is no high ground in Platy arguments.
Pinko Marx
Banned
It just seems, to me, that people are trying to downplay it. Someone here called it a display of feminism or something along those lines, I don't know, but it just seems like they're blind to the fact that the game is objectifying its characters to an extremely obscene degree.
To clarify, I'm not shaming anyone here. Enjoy your game bros. But you should see why people object to this stuff. In a vacuum, theres nothing wrong with it, but in a culture/industry where women are continually ostracized and female characters are either there for sex appeal or hardly seen at all, this type of game is easy to be made a target as "part of the problem".
As will I. Preach!
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with thee fact that you asked him how many people were talking about boobs, he responded with a list, and you then said he was wasting people's time.
If you have an accusation to make, make it. I have no idea what you're talking about here.
SousedLouse
Member
It's sexist because it's misogynistic, and it's misogynistic because it objectifies girls/teens/young women/whatever. It's chained logic. If it hits a marker for one, it shoots all the way up to sexist. And the developers are supposed to care because anything that's sexist harms society, whether it was intended to or not. Broad strokes.
Well, game journalists are not very good at writing, and social activists are more concerned with garnering support and providing cliff notes for the stuff they advocate than actually making sure that their allies understand the ins and outs of advocacy, so occasionally you get hamfisted articles like this.
Think about it: in between the cutesy, neophyte PSA comics, scathingly sarcastic denouements and other short-and-sweet summaries of sexism, racism, classism, etc, that make the rounds on Gaming Side, Off-Topic, or most other sites, there's almost never anything in depth about what to do or what not to do to concretely deal with a societal ill. You get links to a bunch of fallacies to avoid from your opponents, and maybe some pap speech about never remaining silent while evil prospers - nothing concrete about what the reactions might be, or what fallacies you yourself might use. There's a whole ton of people who have their hearts in the right place, but who are almost completely clueless as to how to go do something about it - their only point of reference are the snarky, righteous or triumphant articles that turned them on to the social justice scene in the first place. So they emulate them while advocating, and work with what little nuance they can muster. The same almost certainly applies to journalists of Rooke's caliber, who clearly has about as much understanding of feminist theory, social media or the nature of spite as the Wikipedia pages he probably skimmed before he hammered this article out.
The page-views, despite what many in this thread may think, may be secondary. Rooke probably thinks that he's done a good job of explaining why this game should not exist, and why all games of this type should be left to wither and die. That's sad, because whatever points he could have made are undercut by his laziness and reluctance to explore how far this idea could be taken, in favor of making a pretty lackluster PSA warning. What's worse is that, because his heart is in the right place and his opposition already includes /v/ (as it invariably does), he will essentially get a pass on how shitty his article is - "better the devil you know than the devil you don't know", as the saying goes. Better to support a mediocre condemnation than to say something that could possibly be skewed or misconstrued as supporting misogyny. And the worst thing is that because articles like this get a free pass, they've already set the standard for feminist critique on video games. Anything longer than two pages is already considered "too dense, too layered" - bold statements and empty boasts of righteousness, that's the ticket nowadays. Guys like Chris Rooke and Matt Lees get to shimmy over to the right side of history with people who actually know their shit.
It's the logical conclusion to opposing misogynistic content. If you think something is wrong, you don't just kind of tolerate it and say "what you're doing is wrong, and I really disapprove, but I'll just let you do your thing" - no, you do whatever you can to stop it, whether it's through words or physical effort. If sexist games can cause discomfort or harm by being widespread, like spores of mold spread through visual contact, then one clear conclusion to draw from that is even a single copy of a sexist game is damaging, because it's a spore, and even a single spore can grow and eventually spread itself. Trying to soft-ban games like Senran Kagura Burst outright is just another side of trying to deal with it, and ideally it's as valid a tactic as trying to increase the number of good, wholesome, non-sexist games. It doesn't work that way outside of an intellectual vacuum, but again, Rooke is pretty shitty at this whole advocacy thing, so that's not a factor for him.
She clearly pointed out that there's some skeezy people who like this game. She does not like this game. Therefore, she has the high ground. That's how it works.
It's quite funny actually. Sad, but funny.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Some us admit it, is a fanservice driven game.
But there is a line of "Is a perv game, dudes, is kind of objectifying. We should discuss about this issues" to "is a mysoginist game. Let me shame you with some random images of that game. Ban it".
You had me until misogynist. If anything, this game loves women too much.
Seriously though, sexist is already a bit of a stretch (since it's not putting women in an inferior place, it's just celebrating life and hometown), but misogynist makes no sense to me.
Other than that, I completely agree and I think it's silly that people try to pretend boobs have nothing to do with them liking the game. I'm not saying such cases don't exist, as I'm sure they do (you may just not mind the fanservice and honestly like the game), but for the majority, yeah, anime tits are an important part of the package.
That being said, it's no surprise people would pretend it's not just about the boobs when you're called terrible things for liking anime girls. At least I know I am called terrible things.
I don't hate women, I don't think men are superior to women, I 100% sided with the game dev in the harassment incident and I think it's awful to find any excuse to his behaviour, I just like anime boobs. You may think I'm creepy for that, you may think whatever you want, but assuming things about who I am and spreading that publicly in blogs is what bothers me.
You may say I'm a pervert who only likes those things to masturbate, and while it's not true, I'm fine with that, but being called a misogynist and a moron for liking what I like is really offensive, specially when I haven't offended anyone. If the games I like offend someone, complain about the games, not me.
That's not even exclusive to game journalism, people just love to get riled up over shit that doesn't matter when told that it's related to some larger issue despite knowing nothing about it.
Night Angel
Member
He's saying Platy was being obtuse by entering a thread making accusations without reading the OP or researching the game in question. He then implied that your bias on the subject at hand led you to say that Platy was NOT being obtuse (which he or she most certainly was).
At least that's my take on it.
RobFox64tm
Member
Very well put.