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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses

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Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Valls is a swollen, varicose anus.

I remember the Spanish press had a brief honeymoon period after his election, only to recoil in horror or outright ignore him shortly afterwards.
 

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
It's like Valls forgot that he's one of the reasons why the FN was on second turn lol.
To be fair, the strategy for EVERYONE (bar Le Pen) these elections was to get to the second round of the elections with Le Pen and then win by default.

Valls is cancer for sure though.

I'm really hoping he gets the boot. To think he was my preferred candidate during the PS's primary in 2011. Sigh.
Haha wth he was already running on a right wing platform back then.
 
https://twitter.com/lobs_live/status/861854691919114240

OH OUIIIIII

CiGfIasUUAAW1fy.jpg


To be fair, the strategy for EVERYONE (bar Le Pen) these elections was to get to the second round of the elections with Le Pen and then win by default.

Valls is cancer for sure though.

You're absolutely right. I really hope that 2022 won't be like that :/
 

Magni

Member
To be fair, the strategy for EVERYONE (bar Le Pen) these elections was to get to the second round of the elections with Le Pen and then win by default.

Valls is cancer for sure though.


Haha wth he was already running on a right wing platform back then.

I thought he was running on the right of the others candidates, but not on the right itself. (And well, I am a centrist). I hated Montebourg, didn't want to see Ségo again, didn't like Aubry, and wasn't impressed by Hollande, so that left him. Oh, I guess there was Baylet too lol.
 

mo60

Member
I don't think le pen or whoever represents the french far right will be present in the second round of the 2022 french presidential election at this point. Someone else will likely be but the question is who at this point? The LR is probably hurt a bit from their recent presidential run, the socialist party has collapsed. FI's not really a threat and etc.
 

Koren

Member
You're absolutely right. I really hope that 2022 won't be like that :/
Well, it won't be like that...

If things don't get better and Marine doesn't step down, candidates will battle to be in second turn with LePen to have a slim chance to win, not a win by default :/

If things get better, there's a reasonable chance that FN will miss second turn.
 

G.O.O.

Member
On another subject, has the prime minister question been asked ?

According to the press and the preferences EM expressed throughout the campaign, my money would be either on Sylvie Goulard (rooting for her, I'd like a woman + she knows Europe) or Édouard Philippe. The problem being balance between being a "new face" and having actual political weight.
 

Morokh

Member
I don't think le pen or whoever represents the french far right will be present in the second round of the 2022 french presidential election at this point. Someone else will likely be but the question is who at this point? The LR is probably hurt a bit from their recent presidential run, the socialist party has collapsed. FI's not really a threat and etc.

It will all depend on how Macron's run goes and how the political landscape will change in the meantime.
Also any kind of terrorist attack happening at key moments usually works in their favor cause they fit in their narrative.
Way too soon to tell.
 

Addi

Member
Well not really 95% of the documentary has been shot (and edited, color corrected, mixed) before the election day. What he shot on Sunday is easily edited in a few hours.
The same happened for an Hollande documentary that aired the day after he was elected in 2012.

I was talking about the cinéma direct genre. Most of the documentaries politics (or most topics to be fair) you see on TV have voice overs and guests, lots of graphic and motion design etc.
Here he keeps the mise en scène to the minimum in order to portray what he believed he captured. It reinforces the backstages and "truth" of the moments he shot so it allows a great storytelling (he breaks the standard TV documentary codes for a Macron documentary knowing Macron wants to break the codes of politics/politicians). Very smart use of that old genre that was before used for ethnography and sociology, and isn't popular on TV : France TV likes documentaries with a lot of voice over, the director in the frame, guests*...except for "Un temps de président" in 2015 about François Hollande. Other are kept to cinémas and DVD : Depardon, Claire Simon, Wiseman... (but they inform you and share their analysis through the means of cinematography whereas the director here is portraying kind of a hero's campaign)

*see what they did with Macron (La stratégie du météore), Mélenchon (the film with Gérard Miller), Juppé (with FO Giesbert) etc, it's really the worst propaganda

I didn't see what he did with Teddy Riner but that must have been kind of the same.

I saw on the director's Twitter that he did color correction with a professionnal. Bizarre artistic choice.

I have watched it now.

Well, of course I didn't expect the movie to have much from Sunday, they probably didn't sleep that night though :p Just rendering and exporting a 1h30 movie takes time. I mostly found the filmmaking process and timing interesting. It's also a gamble, if the campaign didn't succeed, the entire project would be useless (so it shows confidence from Macron's side, not necessarily that he was sure he would win, but that his movement at least would gain traction).

I understood what you meant with Cinéma verity (thought this movie isn't 100% that), just not the use of the word "confidential". I guess you meant this feeling of exclusivity and inside look? For my part I don't find it too surprising that they chose this style, there's enough information with the text that pop up and the audience know the context of the movie since it just happened (another reason to drop it the next day). I know french tv have a lot of documentaries with a voice over and lots of explanations, but I think there's a difference between what they call "reportages" and "documentaire". As soon as you frame it as a documentaire and not a reportage, it has more artistic/cinematic weight. It gives you different expectations and It also tells you it wasn't TF1 who made it.

Now, the movie itself was ok, it had some fun moments (I didn't expect Macron to be that goofy), but I missed some real tension. It does also show that a documentary is really not long enough to cover much. Politically I think this movie was a smart move. It shows more of the man and it also sort of counters the countless conspiracies against him. The far right propaganda is not that what he is saying is wrong, but that he is a liar, that there is something hidden behind. Here they sort of portray that the campaign and the team wasn't that big, that he isn't the evil elite he is described as. If anything, En Marche seems to be the movement with the most chill people and with less the extreme/crazy people. His wife never said her opinion on camera, but I'm guessing she is pretty strict, especially when somebody said "even Brigitte was happy" after the Le Pen debate. It was a cool movie to watch, lighthearted, though not mind-blowing.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Well I pretty much did everything I think about it in my previous posts. I would need to watch it a second time because I was focused on the hot things that were in there (the Bayrou moment especially is really mind blowing) and the details (because the lack of commentary means some things need to be explained : for instance when Griveaux (his spokesman) shakes Montebourg's hand with a big smile that's because they used to work together in the same maority at a Conseil général)

On the positive side :

In terms of pure cinematography, it's well edited since there's a good mix of moments (comedy, strategy, another angle at a public event to give contex, real backstage, reaction shots etc) and that gives a good pace, which is important. Sound design is pretty good too, minimalist in the music especially.
There are some really good moments on what is really interesting to me : how the campaign works around his closest staff. With good editing there too, for instance when the press secretary identifies a bad buzz and tries to do as much damage control as possible and we see how it goes to Macron.
Or the Whirlpool moment : kind of the same, you see the damage control and their struggle to have the momentum against Le Pen in the media and how the staff's work (on security measures for instance) can lead to bad buzz.

On the negative it's mostly that something different could have been done to really understand, analyze how a campaign is ran between Macron and his staff, basically doing sociology (hidden mechanism within a group) - but that doesn't fit the director's of the broadcaster's aims who basically want to tell an entertaining and humanizing story about a big character ("What is the real face of your new President? How is he backstage with the people he works with 20h a day?"
That's closer to a Paris Match paper than one for Le Monde or Mediapart.

It's great to have this on prime time on TF1 (great number of viewers) because few people know about how it works backstage. But it has many bias that you have to acknowledge and that the average viewer won't see because the storytelling is effective and entertaining (even if people know that images can be manipulated etc).

Great stuff. Thank you for your comments.

Btw about his wife I'm sick of hearing calling her "Brigitte" as if they knew her. Misogyny at its finest once again and that's only the beginning.
Btw2 where were the women in her staff? It's only white males*. Mostly young but still.
*deputy press secretary aside

You and me both. To be fair, it's partly Macron's fault. I'm not a fan of the way he himself is instrumentalizing her - though at the same time, he's got guts to make their relationship so public when he knows people are going to criticize and mock them for the age difference.

Still, it's inexcusable.

What struck me about his staff is how clean they all look... Too clean. But then, that's his marque de fabrique I guess.


Color me unsurprised, yet relieved. People would not stomach the possibility of an alliance or agreement of any kind with Valls, and it would severely undermine Macron's pledge to renew the political landscape.

He doesn't seem to care much for him or self-interested turncoats for that matter. I think he literally calls him a traitor in yesterday's documentary on TF1.
 

azyless

Member
Hahaha, Marine Le Pen the notorious feminist (who abstained or voted no on 95% of women's rights related cases in the European Parliament).
 

Alx

Member
Hahaha, Marine Le Pen the notorious feminist.

Well she did try to play the "I'm a woman" card in her communication, but journalists quickly pointed that she voted against most propositions in favour of gender equality at European Parliament.
 

Addi

Member
Yes, she lost because of sexism, that's exactly why feminists were protesting against her...

EDIT: oh, it's a sarcastic jab at Hillary. That she didn't lose because of sexism, but because she was bad. Fuck you, Assange.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Probably covering his ass after Laura Poitras' documentary Risk, which paints him as quite the sexist from the looks of things.
 

dosh

Member
There are already 577 LREM candidates. That doesn't mean there won't be any change before the election.

Yeah, I wouldn't get my hopes up:
Le Monde said:
Jean-Paul Delevoye, le président de la commission d'investiture d'En marche !, a déclaré sur BFM-TV qu'une éventuelle candidature de Manuel Valls sous l'étiquette "La République en marche" dans l'Essonne serait "analysée", "en toute indépendance". Mais "nous avons déjà arrêté sur la circonscription de M. Valls une candidate et donc on verra... Si M. Valls décide de proposer [sa candidature], nous aurons à choisir si nous maintenons cette candidate ou pas".
En savoir plus sur http://www.lemonde.fr/election-pres...cron_5124572_4854003.html#WOwQIJVvpcPLsusK.99

Basically Jean-Paul Delevoye, who's in charge of nominating En Marche candidates for the next parliament election in june, declared that in the end they wouldn't ignore Valls' candidacy and that he could replace the person currently invested in that district for EM.

That doesn't mean they WILL replace her with Valls, but he's not exactly dead and buried yet either.
 
You've got to love how really comfortable Assange is with people who are so anti-press.
Then again, I'm not sure a free press is something he respects anyway.
 

Coffinhal

Member
In March he did say they won't be any former ministers in his government.

But he already lied saying that we would know most of the candidates for the législatives BEFORE election day... (we know 14/577) and that there wouldn't be anyone that could be LR/En Marche or PS/En Marche... From what I heard it has been a nightmare for them and showed their contradictions between renewal and needs of a majority and solid candidates.

Plus there's the partnership the with MoDem : around 90 députés seats are already booked for them.

Macron's team really, really despise Valls, and they really don't have anything to gain from him : he doesn't run a party, he kind of betrayed his own after losing at a primary, he was impopular...


This is a genre that is confidential in the documentary category, both in terms of volume and audience, especially on TV but in theaters too. As I explained he uses the means of that genre to give the ultimate Truth of the Inside of the campaign for storytelling purposes, so it doesn't have the analytic force of the usual cinéma vérité movies.

By the way he has a bigger team than that. That's not because you don't see them that they don't exist, but the documentary anyway had to focus on few characters that are always around him in order to keep the viewer's attention and keep that "small team" intimate look too (and it seemed to work).
 

Condom

Member
You've got to love how really comfortable Assange is with people who are so anti-press.
Then again, I'm not sure a free press is something he respects anyway.

Free press is a thing? Technically maybe but in practice no (not your ideal market situation so to say). Not locking up journalists is one sign of freedom of press, not having your whole press in the hands of a couple of corps is another.
 

Coffinhal

Member
About the documentary, what it shows and what it hides, by arrêt sur images
(more context in the link)

Le documentaire de Yann L'Hénoret, Coulisses d'une victoire, bouclé l'après-midi même (il s'ouvre sur la fête du Louvre) se situe dans la plus pure tradition des documentaires politiques français sur les candidats en campagne : une machine à fabriquer de la sympathie. L'exercice suppose de se concentrer sur les scènes et les personnages montrables, au détriment des personnages immontrables, et donc immontrés.

Montrée, donc, la frustration de cordon bleu sur l'autoroute. Immontrées, les coupes de champagne de La Rotonde (on ne s'attarde pas dans la fatidique brasserie parisienne).
Montrée et surmontrée, la sympathique conseillère presse Sibeth Ndiaye, qui à elle seule fait oublier que l'entourage proche est exclusivement blanc et mâle. Immontré l'ex-conseiller santé Jean-Jacques Mourad, promptement éjecté quand la presse a révélé qu'il était rémunéré par Servier.
Montrés, d'une manière générale, les conseillers presse. Quasi-immontré (un plan furtif) l'expert économique Pisany-Ferry, celui qui a cafouillé à la radio sur l'âge de la retraite.
Montrée, Brigitte, qui prive Manu de chocolat. Immontré, le second frère Mourad, Bernard, ancien banquier de Patrick Drahi pour les affaires de medias, devenu conseiller spécial du Barrage.

On pourrait continuer longtemps. Montré et surmontré, le coup de fil de soutien d'Obama. Immontrée, l'affaire Mohammed Saou, ce cadre "mis en retrait", parce qu'accusé par la laïcosphère d'être "islamo-servile". Immontrée, la réaction des spin doctors de Macron à la suppression d'une émission de LCI peu flatteuse pour le candidat. Immontrée, l'organisation des "fausses paparazzades" pour Match, par la nommée Mimi Marchand, "reine des people", et intime du couple. Montrée, une levée de fonds à Londres, mais immontrés les donateurs. Immontré, tout ce qui pourrait ressembler à une colère, une engueulade, un ratage, un pétage de plombs (sauf très brièvement le jour de Whirlpool, où il a trouvé un de ses discours mauvais).
 

Coffinhal

Member
A group of leftist university professors got into the MacronLeaks to analyse (and criticise) his platform for Education and how the experts built it.

Thanks. Helps put things in perspective. I would have expected them to go more in-depth (it's Arrêt sur Images, after all), but they can only throw observations and hypotheses I guess. It's not like they had access to the cut footage.

They have their own "TV show" where they often talk for 90 min about a documentary with the director + a journalist or university professor. I hope they can do that next Friday. The director gave lots of interviews to promote his movie so I can see him doing that.
They could also make a bigger paper like they did for "La stratégie du météore" (the other pro-Macron documentary)
 

sensi97

Member
Thanks. Helps put things in perspective. I would have expected them to go more in-depth (it's Arrêt sur Images, after all), but they can only throw observations and hypotheses I guess. It's not like they had access to the cut footage.

It's one of Daniel Scheidermann's daily chronicle. Don't expect deep journalist work from it. He just gives his opinion.
And IMO, that's the big issue with "Arret sur images" nowadays. Their "pink" content (editorial) is far more popular with their audience than the "blue" (journalism, investigation) and that's killing the site.
 
Free press is a thing? Technically maybe but in practice no (not your ideal market situation so to say). Not locking up journalists is one sign of freedom of press, not having your whole press in the hands of a couple of corps is another.
This is a non sequitur "what about" proposition.

The Murdochs and Dassaults of this world have no bearing on the fact that MLP has been aggressively anti-press when said press didn't conform to her ideas or that freedom of the press in Russia is definitely worse than in France. This kind of absolutism uses the ignominy of the former to give cover to that of the latter, gleefully ignoring all the times when press works.
 

Alx

Member

Er, honestly I didn't see the point of that Twitter feed. It just says "wow that's terrible" or throw random "bureaucrate" accusations, for e-mails that seem quite neutral (if not too technical). One may or may not agree with their content, but there's nothing laughable. Especially the part where he just laughs at the mention of a former proviseur of Henri IV (which pioneered the dedicated opportunities for ZEP students), or about the lack of marketability of Paris I,II, III... (although most of those do have a dedicated name, like Descartes or Pierre & Marie Curie, but the fact that nobody knows/uses it is part of the problem)
 

Magni

Member
So the FN in Japan (yes, they exist) sent me a salty email about the second round and the coming legislatives. Bolded the saltier bits, but really, the whole thing is quite pathetic:

Tokyo, le 9 Mai 2017

Chers compatriotes,

Nous prenons la plume une dernière fois dans le cadre des élections présidentielles, pour remercier tous les Patriotes qui se sont déplacés ce dimanche pour voter Marine Le Pen, apportant ainsi leur soutien à notre combat pour la France. Nous avons aussi une pensée particulière pour nos compatriotes qui étaient de cœur avec nous mais qui n'ont pu se rendre aux urnes.

Le scrutin de Tokyo était bien organisé, et tous les assesseurs et scrutateurs ont réalisé un excellent travail. Nous déplorons toutefois le comportement inacceptable de certains électeurs ayant lourdement, et de manière compulsive, affiché leur préférence pour leur candidat, M. Macron, et cela au sein même des bureaux de vote de Tokyo, au mépris du Code Électoral. Au moins l'un d'entre eux a fait preuve d'un grave manque d'éducation et de goujaterie, allant jusqu'à traiter de « pute » un assesseur féminin qui ne demandait qu'à l'aider. Voilà le comportement extrémiste de certains électeurs de M. Macron !

Nous condamnons fermement et vigoureusement toute injure, toute agression verbale, ou non, et tout mépris vis-à-vis de tiers, qu'ils soient représentant de l'état, femme, adversaire politique – même s'ils sont nos propres opposants – ou autre. Nous ne cesserons de le rappeler, et les faits parlent d'eux-mêmes : aucun électeur de Marine Le Pen, n'a présenté un tel comportement antirépublicain, misogyne et, n'ayons pas peur des mots, associable.

Nous avons tous été témoins ce dimanche soir, quand M. Macron est apparu au Carrousel du Louvre à ses supporters, en ayant choisi non pas la Marseillaise pour ouvrir sa marche, mais l'hymne Européen pour le guider, de son mépris ouvert de la France.

Ces élections ont manifesté la perte de crédibilité définitive des deux anciennes forces politiques qui se sont partagé le pouvoir depuis 40 ans : Les Républicains (ex-RPR, puis UMP) et le Parti Socialiste. Les résultats du premier tour à peine dévoilés, en appelant à collaborer ouvertement avec le parti mondialiste En Marche, elles ont révélé leur véritable but : s'attribuer les postes. Cette collaboration va se finaliser dans le nouveau parti "La Republique en Marche" crée par M. Macron, contraction probable de "Les Republicains" et de "En Marche". Le constat s'impose désormais, la seule véritable opposition en France est incarnée par le Front National.

Ce 7 Mai a clairement établi qu'il n'y avait plus de droite, ni de gauche, ni de centre ; il y a désormais d'un côté les Patriotes Français, et de l'autre les mondialistes et leurs laquais. Cet écroulement du vieux schéma politique français est lourd de conséquences.

Les prochains mois vont révéler comment M. Macron et son gouvernement vont aborder la situation calamiteuse découlant de plus de 40 ans de pseudo-alternance droite gauche. Comment ce futur gouvernement pourra concilier les intérêts de la France avec ceux des mondialistes qui l'ont mis place, nous semble maintenant la question principale. Nous sommes évidemment lucides et ne nous faisons aucune illusion.

Mais déjà, dès lundi prochain, s'ouvre la campagne des législatives.

Une multitude de candidats ont déjà surgit et d'autres suivront prétendant être les seuls pouvant incarner les valeurs républicaines, sociales et insoumises de la France. Pourtant tous, Les Républicains (qui après s'être mis sans condition au service d'un parti mondialiste, n'ont plus de républicain que le nom), tout comme le Parti Socialiste (s'il n'a pas encore achevé sa mutation vers En Marche), et même la France Insoumise (pourtant soumise une première fois en 2012 à M. Hollande, puis à nouveau cette année à son dauphin), exposant leur schizophrénie, avaient appelé très rapidement à voter Emmanuel Macron.

Seuls les candidats Patriotes du Front National resteront fidèles à leur engagement à défendre le peuple Français. Pour ainsi dire, le choix pour les électeurs se résumera à choisir entre un mondialiste, un collaborateur des mondialistes ou un Patriote Français.

Les électeurs de M. Macron ont clairement exprimé leur envie de sortir la France de son état de faiblesse. Ils ont manifesté un besoin de tranquillité, de calme, de paix. Face aux cancers que sont l'insécurité, l'abandon de notre souveraineté, le terrorisme, la précarité sociale, la perte de notre identité, la ruine de notre économie, les Français ont préféré un soin palliatif plutôt qu'un traitement curatif. Respectueux de la démocratie, nous comprenons ce choix guidé par le besoin de lutter contre une ceraine anxiété, mais nous continuerons quand même à chercher les remèdes efficaces pour guérir la France de ses maux.

Nous aimerions, nous aussi, croire aux rêves; un beau rêve comme celui que nous vend M. Macron. Nous espérons de tout cœur nous tromper dans notre analyse sur la situation difficile dans laquelle nous sommes tous. L'avenir nous le révèlera très clairement, et peut être bien plus rapidement qu'on pourrait s'y attendre.

Amitiés patriotes,

L'équipe du Front National au Japon

Quite funny how they call the other parties collaborationists when their party is the one that was started by collaborationists (with the Nazis).
 

Kuldar

Member
It looks like they really are pushing the use of the word "Patriote". I would not be surprised if they rebrand the "Front National" as "Les Patriotes".
 

Magni

Member
It looks like they really are pushing the use of the word "Patriote". I would not be surprised if they rebrand the "Front Nationnal" as "Les Patriotes".

Well, I also got a lot of propaganda from the Front des Patriotes Républicains
yes, they're so big they don't even have a Wikipedia page yet
who are basically FN minus the name from what I can tell.

Can't wait to hear them announce their slogan for the legislatives
Travail, famille, patrie
 

Addi

Member
This is a genre that is confidential in the documentary category, both in terms of volume and audience, especially on TV but in theaters too. As I explained he uses the means of that genre to give the ultimate Truth of the Inside of the campaign for storytelling purposes, so it doesn't have the analytic force of the usual cinéma vérité movies.

By the way he has a bigger team than that. That's not because you don't see them that they don't exist, but the documentary anyway had to focus on few characters that are always around him in order to keep the viewer's attention and keep that "small team" intimate look too (and it seemed to work).

Oh ok, I get it now, I read the word confidential as in "secretive", a movie that is hush-hush that you shouldn't talk about. Which wouldn't make sense since it was broadcasted on TF1. haha.

Oh yeah, I know the team is bigger, the movie creates a perception of a small team.

It looks like they really are pushing the use of the word "Patriote". I would not be surprised if they rebrand the "Front Nationnal" as "Les Patriotes".

At that point they should just go all in and call themselves La Li Lu Le Lo
 
Your take on this ?

Ayrault left me quite sceptical about mayors becoming prime ministers

He's good, got parlementary experience and he's very good on tv, well spoken.

He's center right. He's barely older than Macron (5yo)

Actually my mom met him this morning.

She naturally asked when saying goodbye after their meeting " sooo... matignon ? "

He smiled. Not a word.
 
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